How to Be Happy as a Live Pro
01-16-2018
, 05:18 AM
01-16-2018
, 06:34 AM
01-16-2018
, 11:44 AM
Quote:
ok here goes nothing
h1
rob calling 3 streets here if river is dry. can also get some sizing tells/other tells on river if he barrels. even fish can recognise u have literally no hands ever here and can overbluff especially if they are loose pre and end up with a lot of junk
Yeah, I think since the size is like 1/2 pot - if he bet 3/4 pot on the turn I think we can be happier about folding.
h2: only time i would do something like this is against calling station whales that you want to stack by the river where it isn't really possible with normal sizings. i know people aren't really exploiting you here but your strat becomes obvious when you're suddenly stuck with KK or low ace in this spot. also smaller sizes allows villains to call with worse than Ax and keep ranges wider. i think small flop big or overbet turn achieves the same thing as big flop small turn
Yeah, sounds fair.
h3: my 3bet or flat frequency live in this spot depends mostly on how close i am to the button and if there's fish behind. closer to the button and fish behind means more likely to flat. if your bluffs pre are never getting folds just dont bluff as much and widen your value 3bet range to include hands like AJo and KQ depending on how little folds you're getting and you will print
Yeah, since like average 2/5 3bet % is like 3%, I wouldn't really say 3betting AJ/KQ is for "value" but I do it a fair bit anyway just as a mergy/initiative thing because cold calling sucks.
h4: nice
h5: nice
h6: wp, unlucky.
h7:
h8: this is close but i lean to folding since i dont think he would use this size with Kq j10s etc but you probably know more about his size tendencies than i do. this is actually a pretty common spot and if you are vsing regs it could be good to have some strong hands that check turn. lean towards checking high pairs that need less protection and betting medium pairs that u 3 bet
Yeah, I feel like I'd prob just barrel off with high pairs though, so maybe something like TT/JJ is cool as a bxc.
h9: agreed. betting river is probably ok since despite c betting flop you dont have a pair and dont block his Kx folding range. you definitely don't rep a lot but people are overfolding here live so it's purely exploitable
Cool
h10: bigger flop so u can jam turn or river but seems fine
Agreed.
h11: i think flop is fine, turn needs to x though and can bluffcatch most rivers
Think hand plays better as a b/b/x tbh, don't want to give up free equity and hand is going to be good prob >50% of then time imo.
h12: this is similar to your aq spot before. if villain potted here you would probably fold 88. turn is fold imo
Agreed
h13: c bet flop/check with this hand depends on villain IQ. flop seems like easy call and can reevaluate on turn.
Don't like calling flop tbh. We can't ever call a turn jam unless we bink a 4 outer really. And there's a decent chance v xf's on that turn. Felt like a pretty spewy call otf imo.
h14: this is the easiest jam opportunity you have ever had. literally free money. they never have anything here unless they are next level and can see you reaching for isoing chips. if they do have something AJ is a really bad call in the sb. i much prefer folding over calling but im probably jamming 100% of the time here.
Yeeeah, it was super strange because my understanding of villain was fairly tight solid reg. So I never expect him to be clicking buttons here, but I know some people like to play AK this way? Would feel pretty bad if I got AJs in 650 deep vs AK here... IDK. I wonder @ what stack depth it becomes a call and not a jam? ~700?
h15: 3 ways i default to checking pair lower than top pair here, 2 ways it's close. hand isn't really strong enough to warrant needing protection 3 ways. he is not bluffign as much as you think especially when he calls ur c bet when he has a guy yet to act behind
Yup
h16a: fold pre. snap fold turn/call if really deep
Yeah was pretty snappy fold for me, tilting to see villain turn over K9hh though
h16b: prefer calling pre, post is wp. bet/folding flop = check/calling flop >>>>>>>>> bet/calling flop. you are actually so ****ed when you get raised here
In a vacuum vs population yes, but at ~500effective vs this particular villain I don't think it's terrible. But yeah - think I still should have jammed river.
h16c: c bet flop, river is close can maybe bluff less than Ahigh
Feel like I don't get enough FE to cbet flop vs 2 guys here?
mental game: think it's important to continue trying to play your best even when losing instead of just leaving the table and coming back the next day. that being said you shouldn't force yourself to play if it's impossible for you to play well just so you can reach volume targets
Yeah I'd really never leave early even if running bad. Generally I'm really good at playing through it. Haven't yet really had to remove myself from a game because I'm spewing/tilting.
h1
rob calling 3 streets here if river is dry. can also get some sizing tells/other tells on river if he barrels. even fish can recognise u have literally no hands ever here and can overbluff especially if they are loose pre and end up with a lot of junkYeah, I think since the size is like 1/2 pot - if he bet 3/4 pot on the turn I think we can be happier about folding.
h2: only time i would do something like this is against calling station whales that you want to stack by the river where it isn't really possible with normal sizings. i know people aren't really exploiting you here but your strat becomes obvious when you're suddenly stuck with KK or low ace in this spot. also smaller sizes allows villains to call with worse than Ax and keep ranges wider. i think small flop big or overbet turn achieves the same thing as big flop small turn
Yeah, sounds fair.
h3: my 3bet or flat frequency live in this spot depends mostly on how close i am to the button and if there's fish behind. closer to the button and fish behind means more likely to flat. if your bluffs pre are never getting folds just dont bluff as much and widen your value 3bet range to include hands like AJo and KQ depending on how little folds you're getting and you will print
Yeah, since like average 2/5 3bet % is like 3%, I wouldn't really say 3betting AJ/KQ is for "value" but I do it a fair bit anyway just as a mergy/initiative thing because cold calling sucks.
h4: nice
h5: nice
h6: wp, unlucky.
h7:
h8: this is close but i lean to folding since i dont think he would use this size with Kq j10s etc but you probably know more about his size tendencies than i do. this is actually a pretty common spot and if you are vsing regs it could be good to have some strong hands that check turn. lean towards checking high pairs that need less protection and betting medium pairs that u 3 bet
Yeah, I feel like I'd prob just barrel off with high pairs though, so maybe something like TT/JJ is cool as a bxc.
h9: agreed. betting river is probably ok since despite c betting flop you dont have a pair and dont block his Kx folding range. you definitely don't rep a lot but people are overfolding here live so it's purely exploitable
Cool
h10: bigger flop so u can jam turn or river but seems fine
Agreed.
h11: i think flop is fine, turn needs to x though and can bluffcatch most rivers
Think hand plays better as a b/b/x tbh, don't want to give up free equity and hand is going to be good prob >50% of then time imo.
h12: this is similar to your aq spot before. if villain potted here you would probably fold 88. turn is fold imo
Agreed
h13: c bet flop/check with this hand depends on villain IQ. flop seems like easy call and can reevaluate on turn.
Don't like calling flop tbh. We can't ever call a turn jam unless we bink a 4 outer really. And there's a decent chance v xf's on that turn. Felt like a pretty spewy call otf imo.
h14: this is the easiest jam opportunity you have ever had. literally free money. they never have anything here unless they are next level and can see you reaching for isoing chips. if they do have something AJ is a really bad call in the sb. i much prefer folding over calling but im probably jamming 100% of the time here.
Yeeeah, it was super strange because my understanding of villain was fairly tight solid reg. So I never expect him to be clicking buttons here, but I know some people like to play AK this way? Would feel pretty bad if I got AJs in 650 deep vs AK here... IDK. I wonder @ what stack depth it becomes a call and not a jam? ~700?
h15: 3 ways i default to checking pair lower than top pair here, 2 ways it's close. hand isn't really strong enough to warrant needing protection 3 ways. he is not bluffign as much as you think especially when he calls ur c bet when he has a guy yet to act behind
Yup
h16a: fold pre. snap fold turn/call if really deep
Yeah was pretty snappy fold for me, tilting to see villain turn over K9hh though
h16b: prefer calling pre, post is wp. bet/folding flop = check/calling flop >>>>>>>>> bet/calling flop. you are actually so ****ed when you get raised here
In a vacuum vs population yes, but at ~500effective vs this particular villain I don't think it's terrible. But yeah - think I still should have jammed river.
h16c: c bet flop, river is close can maybe bluff less than Ahigh
Feel like I don't get enough FE to cbet flop vs 2 guys here?
mental game: think it's important to continue trying to play your best even when losing instead of just leaving the table and coming back the next day. that being said you shouldn't force yourself to play if it's impossible for you to play well just so you can reach volume targets
Yeah I'd really never leave early even if running bad. Generally I'm really good at playing through it. Haven't yet really had to remove myself from a game because I'm spewing/tilting.
Quote:
1: i think folding pre is best, cold calling w/ 7 still to act seems to a 7x raise seems like a bad spot
Can't agree with that, 88 is the nuts here in this game and def +EV imo.
2: in theory I think we're meant to be checking this flop fairly often, obviously cbetting some frequency and this hand is obviously good for it. Fine to exploitable size up against whales who just don't fold ax but I think it's important if we're going to go for this strategy then to just x/fold our kx/qx instead of using a 1/3 sizing.
Think that would be important if people actually payed attention to bet sizing. I think you're right though, mash pot BTN vs spastics and go 1/3 vs regs seems fine.
3: obviously fine hands to be 3betting, maybe try some more x/x/b or x/b/b bluffing lines if people never fold to flop cbets.
4: like hand 1, fold pre
7: fold pre, kjo from Ep is no good
And I thought I was nitty! :')
8: I doubt he peels his range, hands like 9t,jt etc should be folding flop. River bluffing range might include a2/a3 or any kq bdfd floats. Calling river at some frequency seems fine. Obviously good flop sizing
Yeah you're right about that one, wp.
9: checking flop seems good, river bluff looks good
mf snapped me off w 4d4o
13: betting seems okay, checking is good too. sizing is probably too large though.
14: probably make it $60 pre with $35 already in the middle. Really like the double check post.
Think that sizing prob just makes it impossible for capped ranges to call us - but I'm not really against it tbh
16: pre is the mistake here, qjoff is just not strong enough to cold call.
Don't think it's a mistake on this particular table. Obv not doing it in a vacuum.
Can't agree with that, 88 is the nuts here in this game and def +EV imo.
2: in theory I think we're meant to be checking this flop fairly often, obviously cbetting some frequency and this hand is obviously good for it. Fine to exploitable size up against whales who just don't fold ax but I think it's important if we're going to go for this strategy then to just x/fold our kx/qx instead of using a 1/3 sizing.
Think that would be important if people actually payed attention to bet sizing. I think you're right though, mash pot BTN vs spastics and go 1/3 vs regs seems fine.
3: obviously fine hands to be 3betting, maybe try some more x/x/b or x/b/b bluffing lines if people never fold to flop cbets.
4: like hand 1, fold pre
7: fold pre, kjo from Ep is no good
And I thought I was nitty! :')
8: I doubt he peels his range, hands like 9t,jt etc should be folding flop. River bluffing range might include a2/a3 or any kq bdfd floats. Calling river at some frequency seems fine. Obviously good flop sizing
Yeah you're right about that one, wp.
9: checking flop seems good, river bluff looks good
mf snapped me off w 4d4o
13: betting seems okay, checking is good too. sizing is probably too large though.
14: probably make it $60 pre with $35 already in the middle. Really like the double check post.
Think that sizing prob just makes it impossible for capped ranges to call us - but I'm not really against it tbh
16: pre is the mistake here, qjoff is just not strong enough to cold call.
Don't think it's a mistake on this particular table. Obv not doing it in a vacuum.
Daily Review - Tues 16/01
Hours Played: 4.6
Game: 1/2PLO+2/3NLH Rotation
Profit: $260
Horrible game tonight. 4 pros, 1 ex pro, and 2 tight regs was the line-up for most of the night. I was under the impression that there'd be more recs but apparently not! Needless to say, game broke fairly quickly. Couple hands I guess... I got bluffed off the 2nd nuts in a PLO hand which I'm kinda w/e about... And this one here vs good reg...
EP $15, call, hero overcalls 8d8s OTB, call
Flop $65: K94cc
xxxx
Turn $65: 56cchh
xxx hero bets $40, only EP calls
River $145: Accc
x, hero bluffs $90, v calls w/ TT.
Notes: I like turning my hand into a bluff OTR. We don't necessarily rep a bunch but villain's line looks verrrry 99-QQ and I think we can get him to fold that portion of his range OTR a decent amount of the time. Maybe I was wrong though.
h2:
7handed
Hero EP $20 67cc, SB calls
Flop $45: AQ9hhh
xx
Turn: Qd
x, hero bets $30, call
River: 2hhhh
x, hero gives up...
Notes: Wondering whether firing river is worthwhile or not. We can prob get him off a rando ace. We're so far down in our range too it mightn't be terrible. I guess it's hard for him to have a Q after the double x, but that might mean he has some hearts still, idk. I think the turn stab is good after the double x because its good for our range.
================================================
Will try get one last grind in tomorrow evening before taking Thursday off to prep/run errands.
01-16-2018
, 12:01 PM
@daynnight
I also think people overcomplicate and overuse words like "game tree" (sorry, that wasnt my intention)
For example, rock paper scissors has a game tree.
I focus on preflop game trees with certain basic inputs catered to live villain frequencies.
My findings are gray, but they always point to a few key ideas:
1) Strong limping ranges, (certain villains limp up to 99/AQ pretty often, and as strong as JJ/AK not as common, and AK/AA as limp/raise candidates) make us want to overlimp medium strength nut making hands more, bc we want these hands to realize their equity more.
2) There is something I call "the collective equity of the field". This is the idea that you arent playing against 8 individual hands, you are playing against 8 collective hands. Villains give each other pot odds and board coverage by all vpip'ing together.
A hand like AJs is a prime example. After 1 or 2 limps, we raise for isolation/value. After 8 limps, our isolation raise becomes so large that it commits us (a problem, see #1) or not large enough that we see a flop 9 ways. There is a certain threshold of limpers where our hand changes from sometimes win w/o sd to basically always showing down. If we are always showing down, against 5+ villains seeing flop, we are approaching nut mining.
3) short stacks. The shorter effective stacks of live poker compound problems 1&2. Even if people all buy in for 100bbs (they dont), stacks are fairly short vs 5x opens and straddles and such. When a shortie limps AQ and its 7 limps to us and we millionX and shorty reships, we are almost colluding with the guy to ship him money.
Now, the counter argument is "well with the dead money" or "yea but his range is like 66+/KQo" and thats all true, but its thin. If people limp AK/AA as lrr candidates it switches from thin to negative.
4) there is real value in overnutting people. This is because in a 10 handed game where people dont fold, showdown value becomes important. Overly simplistic statement, there is actually a good chuck of value in letting T
4 see a flop when we have AJ.
I also think people overcomplicate and overuse words like "game tree" (sorry, that wasnt my intention)
For example, rock paper scissors has a game tree.
I focus on preflop game trees with certain basic inputs catered to live villain frequencies.
My findings are gray, but they always point to a few key ideas:
1) Strong limping ranges, (certain villains limp up to 99/AQ pretty often, and as strong as JJ/AK not as common, and AK/AA as limp/raise candidates) make us want to overlimp medium strength nut making hands more, bc we want these hands to realize their equity more.
2) There is something I call "the collective equity of the field". This is the idea that you arent playing against 8 individual hands, you are playing against 8 collective hands. Villains give each other pot odds and board coverage by all vpip'ing together.
A hand like AJs is a prime example. After 1 or 2 limps, we raise for isolation/value. After 8 limps, our isolation raise becomes so large that it commits us (a problem, see #1) or not large enough that we see a flop 9 ways. There is a certain threshold of limpers where our hand changes from sometimes win w/o sd to basically always showing down. If we are always showing down, against 5+ villains seeing flop, we are approaching nut mining.
3) short stacks. The shorter effective stacks of live poker compound problems 1&2. Even if people all buy in for 100bbs (they dont), stacks are fairly short vs 5x opens and straddles and such. When a shortie limps AQ and its 7 limps to us and we millionX and shorty reships, we are almost colluding with the guy to ship him money.
Now, the counter argument is "well with the dead money" or "yea but his range is like 66+/KQo" and thats all true, but its thin. If people limp AK/AA as lrr candidates it switches from thin to negative.
4) there is real value in overnutting people. This is because in a 10 handed game where people dont fold, showdown value becomes important. Overly simplistic statement, there is actually a good chuck of value in letting T
4 see a flop when we have AJ.
01-16-2018
, 02:10 PM
01-16-2018
, 06:41 PM
Quote:
@daynnight
I also think people overcomplicate and overuse words like "game tree" (sorry, that wasnt my intention)
For example, rock paper scissors has a game tree.
I focus on preflop game trees with certain basic inputs catered to live villain frequencies.
My findings are gray, but they always point to a few key ideas:
1) Strong limping ranges, (certain villains limp up to 99/AQ pretty often, and as strong as JJ/AK not as common, and AK/AA as limp/raise candidates) make us want to overlimp medium strength nut making hands more, bc we want these hands to realize their equity more.
2) There is something I call "the collective equity of the field". This is the idea that you arent playing against 8 individual hands, you are playing against 8 collective hands. Villains give each other pot odds and board coverage by all vpip'ing together.
A hand like AJs is a prime example. After 1 or 2 limps, we raise for isolation/value. After 8 limps, our isolation raise becomes so large that it commits us (a problem, see #1) or not large enough that we see a flop 9 ways. There is a certain threshold of limpers where our hand changes from sometimes win w/o sd to basically always showing down. If we are always showing down, against 5+ villains seeing flop, we are approaching nut mining.
3) short stacks. The shorter effective stacks of live poker compound problems 1&2. Even if people all buy in for 100bbs (they dont), stacks are fairly short vs 5x opens and straddles and such. When a shortie limps AQ and its 7 limps to us and we millionX and shorty reships, we are almost colluding with the guy to ship him money.
Now, the counter argument is "well with the dead money" or "yea but his range is like 66+/KQo" and thats all true, but its thin. If people limp AK/AA as lrr candidates it switches from thin to negative.
4) there is real value in overnutting people. This is because in a 10 handed game where people dont fold, showdown value becomes important. Overly simplistic statement, there is actually a good chuck of value in letting T4 see a flop when we have AJ.
I also think people overcomplicate and overuse words like "game tree" (sorry, that wasnt my intention)
For example, rock paper scissors has a game tree.
I focus on preflop game trees with certain basic inputs catered to live villain frequencies.
My findings are gray, but they always point to a few key ideas:
1) Strong limping ranges, (certain villains limp up to 99/AQ pretty often, and as strong as JJ/AK not as common, and AK/AA as limp/raise candidates) make us want to overlimp medium strength nut making hands more, bc we want these hands to realize their equity more.
2) There is something I call "the collective equity of the field". This is the idea that you arent playing against 8 individual hands, you are playing against 8 collective hands. Villains give each other pot odds and board coverage by all vpip'ing together.
A hand like AJs is a prime example. After 1 or 2 limps, we raise for isolation/value. After 8 limps, our isolation raise becomes so large that it commits us (a problem, see #1) or not large enough that we see a flop 9 ways. There is a certain threshold of limpers where our hand changes from sometimes win w/o sd to basically always showing down. If we are always showing down, against 5+ villains seeing flop, we are approaching nut mining.
3) short stacks. The shorter effective stacks of live poker compound problems 1&2. Even if people all buy in for 100bbs (they dont), stacks are fairly short vs 5x opens and straddles and such. When a shortie limps AQ and its 7 limps to us and we millionX and shorty reships, we are almost colluding with the guy to ship him money.
Now, the counter argument is "well with the dead money" or "yea but his range is like 66+/KQo" and thats all true, but its thin. If people limp AK/AA as lrr candidates it switches from thin to negative.
4) there is real value in overnutting people. This is because in a 10 handed game where people dont fold, showdown value becomes important. Overly simplistic statement, there is actually a good chuck of value in letting T
4 see a flop when we have AJ.
01-16-2018
, 07:14 PM
Quote:
@daynnight
I also think people overcomplicate and overuse words like "game tree" (sorry, that wasnt my intention)
For example, rock paper scissors has a game tree.
I focus on preflop game trees with certain basic inputs catered to live villain frequencies.
My findings are gray, but they always point to a few key ideas:
1) Strong limping ranges, (certain villains limp up to 99/AQ pretty often, and as strong as JJ/AK not as common, and AK/AA as limp/raise candidates) make us want to overlimp medium strength nut making hands more, bc we want these hands to realize their equity more.
2) There is something I call "the collective equity of the field". This is the idea that you arent playing against 8 individual hands, you are playing against 8 collective hands. Villains give each other pot odds and board coverage by all vpip'ing together.
A hand like AJs is a prime example. After 1 or 2 limps, we raise for isolation/value. After 8 limps, our isolation raise becomes so large that it commits us (a problem, see #1) or not large enough that we see a flop 9 ways. There is a certain threshold of limpers where our hand changes from sometimes win w/o sd to basically always showing down. If we are always showing down, against 5+ villains seeing flop, we are approaching nut mining.
3) short stacks. The shorter effective stacks of live poker compound problems 1&2. Even if people all buy in for 100bbs (they dont), stacks are fairly short vs 5x opens and straddles and such. When a shortie limps AQ and its 7 limps to us and we millionX and shorty reships, we are almost colluding with the guy to ship him money.
Now, the counter argument is "well with the dead money" or "yea but his range is like 66+/KQo" and thats all true, but its thin. If people limp AK/AA as lrr candidates it switches from thin to negative.
4) there is real value in overnutting people. This is because in a 10 handed game where people dont fold, showdown value becomes important. Overly simplistic statement, there is actually a good chuck of value in letting T4 see a flop when we have AJ.
I also think people overcomplicate and overuse words like "game tree" (sorry, that wasnt my intention)
For example, rock paper scissors has a game tree.
I focus on preflop game trees with certain basic inputs catered to live villain frequencies.
My findings are gray, but they always point to a few key ideas:
1) Strong limping ranges, (certain villains limp up to 99/AQ pretty often, and as strong as JJ/AK not as common, and AK/AA as limp/raise candidates) make us want to overlimp medium strength nut making hands more, bc we want these hands to realize their equity more.
2) There is something I call "the collective equity of the field". This is the idea that you arent playing against 8 individual hands, you are playing against 8 collective hands. Villains give each other pot odds and board coverage by all vpip'ing together.
A hand like AJs is a prime example. After 1 or 2 limps, we raise for isolation/value. After 8 limps, our isolation raise becomes so large that it commits us (a problem, see #1) or not large enough that we see a flop 9 ways. There is a certain threshold of limpers where our hand changes from sometimes win w/o sd to basically always showing down. If we are always showing down, against 5+ villains seeing flop, we are approaching nut mining.
3) short stacks. The shorter effective stacks of live poker compound problems 1&2. Even if people all buy in for 100bbs (they dont), stacks are fairly short vs 5x opens and straddles and such. When a shortie limps AQ and its 7 limps to us and we millionX and shorty reships, we are almost colluding with the guy to ship him money.
Now, the counter argument is "well with the dead money" or "yea but his range is like 66+/KQo" and thats all true, but its thin. If people limp AK/AA as lrr candidates it switches from thin to negative.
4) there is real value in overnutting people. This is because in a 10 handed game where people dont fold, showdown value becomes important. Overly simplistic statement, there is actually a good chuck of value in letting T
4 see a flop when we have AJ.
1) i've played about 1300 hours live and rarely were people limping anything better than AJ or 77. these are games where people were limping 30-40%. these are a lot of hands that you beat. you can overlimp nut making hands like low to medium suited aces and iso your AJs for value imo
2) long term this is a good thing. you will win more money with stronger hands even 8 ways. if tables were going massively multiway pre i would iso to a size that would get max 1 or 2 callers/folds aren't the worst
3) but they are limp calling a10, a2s, a5s, a9s, j10 kj all these hands u crush
4) i much prefer overnutting people with low-med suited aces as opposed to AJs which has value in hitting pairs. with your logic why not just limp AKs pre?
01-16-2018
, 10:42 PM
01-16-2018
, 11:26 PM
01-17-2018
, 05:59 PM
01-19-2018
, 06:08 AM
