Great thread this. I pop in when I can. Any interest in playing some other games like PLO. I haven’t looked back since I’ve played this game. Swingy but super profitable live


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QQ hand - I wouldn't be so quick to muck. I see players all the time make this sort of flop minnish raise with top pair. If they had something worth protecting, isn't it a bit odd for them to price you in when 24 different cards could come on the turn to destroy their hand?

Now, if he calls and turn is, say, 2x and the same situation happens (min-raise), then we can confidently muck our hand.

I like how you set the bar high for yourself. Best of luck in 2018. Focus on accomplishing the things you CAN control, and you will do just fine for yourself. (Easier said than done btw)

I too am not thrilled with folding qq. Although I think it's sigh/ok readless. The raise with so many players behind is terrifying.

With AA though I'm never folding here. More chance the guy thinks his slow played QQ or KK is good, even though you block more AJ. KK prob dnf too

Deviate with reads

Loving the ambitious goals, congrats on a solid start to being a pro and here’s to hoping I join you in Melbourne in the summer!


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Thanks man and yeah defo catch up in Melb!

Yeeeah, I'd love to play more PLO if possible. Bunch of rotation games around Brisbane - PLO seems to be more popular than NLH in the homegame scene by a mile.

The issue is the variance/bankroll considerations. I know it's a profitable game to be playing but I'm much happier with the consistent, low variance, steady NLH income atm. My bankroll is prob big enough now to be happy playing 1/2-2/3 PLO and short stacking 2/5 PLO but the swings are just so brutal that I'm not sure it'd be worth it?

Like if I knew for a fact I could make $40+ an hour playing only PLO, I'd snap play PLO every day even with the insane variance. But the fact is I have no real way to gauge the profitability of these LLSPLO games and if my hourly was still only ~$30 mark playing PLO, it'd be a bit of a disaster considering the increased variance.

IDK though, maybe I'll revisit the notion of PLO at some stage. I think though with my sights set firmly on the 5/10 NLH games, it'd be best to avoid that atm.

They might just think that I'll stack off with overpairs - realistically at this stack depth, they aren't too worried about protection being in position vs my particular range.

It's not fun folding though knowing people can just be raising top pair but I think sticking the money in here with a weak overpair is just pretty bad tbh.

By that time SPR would probably preclude us mucking.

Cheers Telly, it's been a good year and a big thanks to you for following so far!

He was the second caller pre, so an overcaller. While this doesn't make it impossible for him to have slowplayed KK+, it makes it a lot less likely. In general we shouldn't read tooooo much into blockers at this level but I think it makes a pretty huge difference in this spot.

Pretty sure KK is a faaaar superior hand to continue with than AA here.

Thanks mate! Yeah would be dope to meet some of you guys in Melb for sure.

Almost all the best games I've ever spotted have been PLO. Last time I was at the star a whale ran up 50k at Baccarat , took it to 2/5/10 plo and got it in at least twice an orbit (vs much shorter stacks). Ran up over 100k. Always noise coming from the PLO tables.

Super low reg count probably because of fear variance/harder to directly observe your edge than holdem I think. Also online PLO still seems pretty juicy so not many are making the switch. I've been thinking a little about PLO but given the amazing holdem games that are still available doesn't seem worth the focus right now. When you end up playing 5/10-25/50+ probably worth knowing both just to get better options.

Yeah that's exactly right. I wonder in terms of winrates though what sort of hourly one could expect at the following games,

1/3PLO - ~$40/hr???
2/3NLH - ~$35/hr???
2/5/10NLH - ~$80-100/hr???
5/5/10PLO - ~$150-200/hr???

Rough guesses ofc... is it even a 5/5/TPLO that runs regularly or 2/5/T? Again the issue for me would be observing my edge in the games amidst all the variance. I'd grind 1/3PLO full time if I had a 50+ BI roll and 6 months living expenses saved but honestly I'd rather just play 2/5/T NLH which I can do on a 30BI roll comfortably and less variance.

I imagine you could make a good dollar at that bigger PLO game for sure... Maybe I'll just bink the opening event in AM and become a PLO pro!??

It only takes a few times to see how much better the games are than their counterparts.. just about handling the variance imo

Oh I'm well aware that 90% of live PLO guys are just clicking buttons but as you say, it's a variance thing. Also your hands per hour is so much lower which means sample size is lower which means again, more variance.

+ its fullring
+ its actually not even that interesting to play.

your just pushing equity in 6 way pots.

But you get four caaaards maaan...

If you can, practice a few thousand hands of PLO online first. The variance is just insane. At a 2/2 PLO game, I did not lose a session in 2016. In 2017, I had a -$50/hr hourly in the same game. Small sample size for both obviously, but paints a clear enough picture of the variance. If you were to play PLO regularly, I'd want a minimum of 100 100bb BIs in the BR.

I've played a bunch of PLO online. I think there's absolutely no need for 100BIs for any cash variant - that's more like some midstakes online MTT BR. 2/2 PLO 50BIs is more than enough imo.

But ya, not really planning on looking much at PLO for the time being, perhaps down the line.

The biggest problem with live plo is not variance its hands/hr as op says.

There are specific adaptations for live full ring plo that few people understand (similar to live nl!), but essentially you should be playing in a way to minimize losses in between making the nuts.

As mr spew says, correct play isn't exactly "fun", but winning $5K in a 1/3 blind game is pretty fun, and flopping 20 out draws is also a bit fun.

Yeah tbh I think I prob play as tight in live PLO as I do in live nlh. I am pretty confident in my live PLO Strat as it is but yeah just don't really see a whole lot of point playing it ATM.

Ive played live PLO 5-6 times and I feel like Im playing tighter than I do in hold em. Thats probably not correct but for now I basically just play hands that have multiple ways to hit the nuts.

No, that is correct. Just dont tell anyone else.

I find live plo much more boring/un-fun to play than no-limit in my limited experience playing it

(& not just b/c I lose )

Everyone knows you're just a MTT & PLO fish...

Daily Update - Wed 03/01

Hours Played: 8.1
Profit: -$468

Well folks, all good things must come to an end! Tonight's session was very annoying, mostly because I folded the best hand on the turn like 3-4 times and got 3bet pre, folded, and then would have flopped the nuts a further 3-4 times. The folds are pretty much all standard but fk me it was annoying to see the garbage people are bluffing and calling with over and over again.

I can attribute this losing session mostly to one hand which happened at $820 effective.

Limp, hero 76ss $30, call, call, call.
Flop $125: Q58sss
Hero cbets $80, only SB calls.
Turn $285: 3o
Hero cbets $205, SB jams $505 total, hero pukes because it's basically always the nuts but we can't really fold and we still have 2 outs if we're beat!

Sure enough villain has AKss and we can't bink the SF. I really hate losing coolers when deep. I hate it more when it's set under set or flush under flush because I make such a point about always trying to put myself in the position to flush over flush/set over set someone and not the other way around. On this table my isolation raises weren't really getting much fold equity either so I think just overlimping 76s or folding from MP is better than raising it up.

Another hand that I found bizarre,

7 limpers, hero $45 in BB w/ AhJs, only UTG limper calls.
Flop Q68hh
Hero cbets $65, villain calls.
Turn 8o
Hero ???

I'm not sure if we just give up or barrel here.

Results: https://1drv.ms/x/s!AkK4doh8PHLEgk6pBpFJrgcokPKM

============================

Anywho, back on the homegame grind tomorrow night. Then Friday it's my birthday and will do dinner with the fam before grinding the casino. Trying to sort out whether I have free accomodation in Melbourne with my mate or not - it's looking like not which means I'm going to try book AirBnB sometime soon too. And then later in the week I'll look to discuss some bankroll/liferoll management re the Melbourne move too.

Happy (almost) birthday MTT fish, time to bink a late b-day present in Melbourne?

6 folds after original limper peeled is indeed bizzare

range check on 8 turn. worst turn in the deck range v range

Why are you betting turn in hand one? And flop?

Not being sarcastic just trying to learn.

(never mind I understand flop with the straight flush outs. But I don't get the turn.)

for value ?
we have flush and play vs fishes that wont fold pair+fd / 2p / sets seems like reasonable reason to bet.