Ye thought so, and then save the checking behind for HU pots maybe.

The two spots are pretty different.

TJQ you have a big range advantage bc they likely can't have 16 combos of AK, any qq, and some JJ.

78Jss that's not the case. KK can go either way mw here bet or check. But if bet I wouldn't go larger than half pot. Also regs tend to have to play pretty honestly with big fish in the pot, so use that to your advantage

Anyways, I prefer going smaller size and wide/thin/linear in mw pots with fish.

lol way too kind . pokerarb beat me to the response though below which was very similar to what i was going to say:

the board textures in these 2 spots are vastly different. you should always be thinking about your range as the pfr and the ranges of pre-flop callers and how they interact with the board.

vs straight-forward opponents these spots are a pretty easy bet/fold for value. but on a texture where we are going to want to do a lot of checking, KhKx is a very reasonable combo to check back here

I assume you're BTN and he's checkraising?

I like mixing it up with a check or bet, i think betting on this board (when he checkraises) you lose the least. If you check I find we kind of bleed chips on turns and rivers (if they are bricks) when he could already have us crushed.

Cheers to both of you!

Board texture in a HU pot vs in a 4way pot, does it matter as much how often we protect our checking range mw? Like 100% of the time I open AK (excluding akhh) and I get this flop I'm checking back and giving up 4way. A lot of my hands I'll probably do this with. So if I'm checking a ton, it's probably good in theory to X behind with KhKx. But I wonder whether there's any point given its a 4way meta.

10000%. Which is why id rather cbet multiway and do more checking in a HU pot where there's a higher likelihood that someone bluffs.

yes the nature of multi-way pots is going to both allow and require you to play more straightforward (in general). vs predictable/straightforward villains who are going to call too much and raise/bluff too little, just play a value-heavy range in multiway pots and do a lot of bet/folding.

however, when you are playing against smarter/better/tricker opponents (and honestly even vs less sophisticated opponents as well) it can go a long way to play your ranges in a less face-up, more balanced manner. even bad players can recognize certain patterns they see over and over again from various players.

Alot of people think solvers check a texture like that as a part of balance (which they technically do) but more important is realizing equity and range advantage/disadvantage..which is why flop is a high freq check. This is more of a plo concept but you are drawing to certain good turns (rainbow 2/3/7/K etc) and you arent further bloating a pot on a board texture where equity drastically changes from flop -> river and you arent giving villains and opp to x/r you off ur equity

The most important thing imo about this hand is that it's 4-way. Immediately when we go to a flop, before even seeing it, our equity is significantly diminished. Ava when you talk about solvers in this spot, it's meaningless imo because A) impossible to solve vs 3 other ranges, B) because of the multiway nature, we don't have to protect our checking range - it's too hard for any one reg (or 3 of them collectively) to exploit us because there's too many other players to be worried about.

Imo vs a population that is largely going to just call with draws and raise with 2p+, there's more value in betting for equity denial/value purposes than checking behind to realise our equity? Also as said earlier, because we're only getting xr by value hands, we're not concerned about getting raised off our equity - sure if occasionally someone has a few nfd combos mixed in with their value then we may give some up but the point is we can happily fold if raised.

And lastly the other most important thing to take from this is that if we X behind on turn and we get a safe turn and any player leads (highly likely), we have to call a potentially large bet size and then be completely in the dark on a variety of rivers if we face another bet. By cbetting the flop we immediately find out whether we're up against a set or a draw/top pair. Stationing two streets not knowing really anything about villain's range on turn and river I think is going to cost us a lot more when we're behind.

Again, all of this is simply because it's 4 way. Even if it's 3 handed I feel much better about checking behind.

First hand vs unknown MAWG villain, $500 effective 5/5.

Hero opens AsKh 25 EP 4 callers
Flop $125: Ah5s6h
SB leads 45 hero calls CO calls
Turn $260: Ad
SB leads 55 hero raises 165 CO folds SB calls
River $590: 7hhh
SB leads 250, hero ???

Hand 2:

Hero very tight image, 500ish effective, villain doesn't seem to be getting out of line...
Limp limp co iso 30 hero SB A2dd very tight image 3! 115 call
Flop J84cc
Xx
Turn 7o
Xx
River Ko
Hero 135 v snapjams hero snapfolds v shows Q9hh

Hand 1, Well with all the usual "idk your population" disclaimers, that donk bet and size looks fishy (if it was a reg protecting a made hand - 2p or better - I'd expect it to be bigger) which steers me towards a spazzy rec with an ace or ditto trying to "buy" a cheap draw. Either way, I'm raising flop.

Since you don't (which is probably fine) I'm not sure why you raise turn? You seem to be going into the turn with a lot of unanswered questions, so I'm not sure raising is a great idea?

Rivers probably a fold, but we seem to have put ourselves in a tricky spot?

Hand 2

w/ever, make a note and get a better read on this villain, coz the possibility exists that they have got a good read on you. Did they have to show you the hand, and if they didn't what is your assessment of villain going forwards?

Turn we have to raise because he sizes so small in relation to the pot. We have to charge his draws and can get value from random Ax. I snapfolded river lol.

Turns out he was just tilted and "had just been getting **** all night" - he didn't have to show but decided to anyway. He has since left the game.

yeah I get that (obviously ). Just not sure why we are not doing it on the flop?

Was ready to cut my losses on that board. Good river tho.

Wp now fold

Don’t like this 3b from the SB. No need to 3b as a bluff OOP in live poker tbh. BTN I’m cool w it

yeah I agree with that, should have picked it up first tbh ...sometimes it's hard to let go of the online zoom mentality no matter how much one intends too . I guess that is something you (Meale) have to be on guard against, although your metamorphosis must be quite advanced now

You're thinking about the kk hand backwards. We dont check to protect checking range, you should read my post again.

Also, there are multiway solvers.

Basically this. Coming from an online background as well this was a big mental switch for me.

Yeeeah, it was basically a lapse in focus more than anything. Apparently the tightest player at the table still has no fold equity. :')

Nah I've articulated my thoughts on that hand fairly well. You on the other hand seem to have this misconstrued understanding of the term "realising equity" that has no relevance to how we actually should play the hand. Sorry for being a dick about it but it's like 4am and I cbf reopening that can of worms.

Daily Update - Wed 6/12

Hours Played: 7.6
Profit: -$494

Ran a little bit below EV tonight, maybe $100-$200. Couple of weird hands, two of which I've already posted. Think hand 1 is a bit of a snapfold on the river but it's annoying as fk. Second hand A2dd really just comes down to being more disciplined preflop when card dead.

Here are some more I'd like to review... These are all 5/5 btw. Assume 500+ stack depth unless otherwise noted.

H1:

Limp, limp, limp, hero MP w/ KQss makes it $35, BTN 3! to $75, folds to us and we call. Already not loving it - BTN doesn't seem to be getting out of line at all. KQo is a snapfold but I think given the size we can call with KQs. It's basically less than a minraise given the dead money in the pot.
Flop: K97cc
Check, v cbets $100, hero calls.
Turn: 5o
Check, v cbets $125, hero ???
Notes: Flop it's kinda hard for us to just fold immediately. But turn I think we're just never ahead and can sigh fold and wait for a better spot to calldown.

H2:

Hero opens KcJx $25 in MP, MP+1 calls
Flop: 633cc
Hero cbets $30, v calls.
Turn: 7ccc
Hero cbets $75, v calls.
River: 4cccc
Hero cbets $100, v raises to $200, hero ???
Notes: Pre is questionable/bad. Flop I guess we have to cbet w/ the backdoor. Turn is prob fine to barrel. When we get min-raised on the river it seems pretty gross. But something that I actually didn't think about at the time and I should have is, "wouldn't he raise bigger with AcX?" - based on that, I think it's closer to a snapcall. Villain is an old Asian guy btw so that makes it tuffer. Anyway, we eventually call and v shows QsQc which was very unexpected.

H3:

Potentially botch of the night?
Limp, hero raise AQo $30 in MP, CO calls, SB calls, limper calls.
Flop $120: AK7r
Check, hero $65, CO calls, SB calls, fold.
Turn $315: 4hh
Check, check, check.
River $315: Qhhh
OMC SB leads out $65, hero raises to $175, fold, OMC SB calls.
Notes: I think OMC can have 77 and AK in CO can also prob have AK in their range. So I decided checking turn for pot control is probably a decent idea but is it better to just dbarrel? I feel like we prob only get 2 streets from worse and on this board where we're not really worried about draws, it feels like flop and river are better than flop and turn? I think we should prob be raising river too given his sizing, hoping he has something like AJ or A7 or A4.

====================

Tomorrow's the last day in the week. I need to play 9.8 hours to get my volume target. Hopefully we're able to do it but I won't force it.

H1: I'm probably calling turn (mostly due to small sizing) & evaluating river but fine ap

H2: sigh calling....100 to win 560 if im mathing correctly. (probably a fold tho?)

H3: ch is fine on turn, as is B/f. AP on that river just flatting the lead.

Keep it going man! always impressed with your hours

That's where I seem to have went wrong. I thought surely this spastically small sizing is 1 pair at best. But then again, it was a v tight OMC. Mafugga had a flush lmaowot.

2/3
UTG straddle $5, UTG+1 ($1k) re-straddle $10, hero ($1k) call A4dd, MP ($700) makes it $50, folds to utg+1 who calls hero calls
Flop $150: 923ddd
Check, hero checks, villain bets $80, fold, hero ???

Villain is a decent player. We raising flop to get some money in or just flatting?

Hand 1: That's a strange 3bet size. We have about 30% equity preflop giving him JJ+, AK, and AQs (AQs sounds a bit generous). Technically, we shouldn't fold anything to that size 3bet. I'd almost be tempted to go for a 4bet bluff given our exact hand. I think calling flop is ok. We could potentially find a fold, but it'd be tough.

Turn seems like a snap fold, even though we're getting good odds. What hands is this opponent 3betting preflop, betting flop, and then betting turn with on a K hi board? Very likely a hand we're doing poorly against.

Hand 2: KJo is borderline, and depends on how you define MP. My MP is 3rd to act at a normal, 9 handed table. I'd fold at a table full of solid players. But, I open it up MP2, or 4th to act. I'd open it at a fishier table MP1 though.

We could size down a little OTF, but HU I'm cbetting all day and then continuing on a club/K/J/Q/A. River, yeah we just shrug call. We have to be good like 4.5 to 1 times. It's also tough to give him 4's full, because that would mean call flop and turn with 3rd pair and a flush possible.

Hand 3: Bet larger on the flop IMO. Players don't fold an A to one bet, so might as well make the most of that first bet. I'd bet like 80-90. And then when I know I can only get two streets, I try to make those the flop and turn. Players are more willing to put money in on the turn because there is another card to come that can improve their hand. They're less likely on the river because their hand is finite.

As played when the flush gets there OTR, we should probably just call the OMC's donk bet. We have just a bluff catcher, and the only hand we beat that OMC may call a raise with is A4.