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Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

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Old 04-14-2018, 07:05 PM   #126
Kelvis
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Ok now you're just straight up taking the piss out us. I wish you good luck and I hope you have something prepared if it all comes crashing down. Other people won't be there.
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Old 04-14-2018, 07:23 PM   #127
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Structure your goals and write them down, like Kelvis mentioned. It will give your life more clarity, purpose and act as something to hold on to, fall back on. It could be the one thing keeping you from jumping into the higher tables when the urge comes and from what I've read it will.

You need start treating yourself in a way that you would treat yourself when you wouldve reached your goal, for example being a 5/10 reg live. Would he neglect his health like you do? Would he spend his money recklessly on useless things? WHAT WOULD HE DO?

-Start googling about nutrition
-Teach yourself how to cook and mealprep.
-Learn about fitness through watching youtube videos (Look up Athlean X on youtube, best advice by far)


If you can find the time, write down who you would be if you did everything you could to improve for the next five years or so. Next to that, write down how you would be viewed by your environment.

Afterwards, write down what the worst possible scenario would be in that same timespan.

If you are too lazy, which you probably are atm, do a voice memo for both when youre alone, driving in your car f.e. Listen to these memo's when your either up or down, to keep your mindset focussed on the longterm.

Gradually change your mindset from looking for instant gratification to a more long term lifetime plus EV one.

This was my last piece of free advice. You would be amazed how much value actually is in the comments I wrote.

If you want any further advice or life coaching sessions via f.e. Skype, it will be paid on an hourly session basis.

Goodluck!
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Old 04-15-2018, 11:02 PM   #128
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Where do I want to be in 5 years?

In 5 years time, I'll be 29 years old. I want to have a bankroll of at least $100k and I want to be grinding $5/$10 and $10/$20 live games, as well as 200nl online games (if online poker is still accessible).

At this stage, I also want to be looking at going back to uni. I got kicked out of my previous degree for failing too many subjects, since I spent too long at the casino and skipped most of my classes. It was a shame because I was studying BCom at the top university in my country and I could've gone places; I could've worked as an actuary or an investment banker. But I decided after getting kicked out that I need to get poker "out of my system" before I think about returning to study, which is why I want to grind for the next 5 years harder than I've ever grinded before. I want to make something out of this. I want to turn a sh**ty situation into an opportunity for success.

How will I achieve this?

I will continue working my current job (pizza delivery driver) and playing $1/$3 and $2/$5 at the casino until I have a $30k bankroll. Then I will quit my job and just grind full-time. I'll also play online a lot too, which will help me to see more hands per hour and improve faster.

My current schedule is something like: work 20hrs per week, play poker 20hrs per week. I'd like to increase volume and start grinding 30hrs per week of poker. I'd also like to reduce life expenses: ideally, the money I earn from work should cover all of my life expenses with $100/week extra to add to my bankroll. And ideally, I should earn at least $20/hr at the casino, which will allow my bankroll to grow by $700/week or $35k/year, on average.

How will I avoid tilt and self-destruction?

The moment I find myself tilting, I will walk away immediately. Even if I'm in the middle of a hand, I'll just fold out of turn and walk away. Even if my friends are on the same table as me, I'll just excuse myself to the bathroom or to the sink for a glass of water. Even if I've just paid my big blind, I'll just consider it a sunk cost. Being able to walk away from a game when tilted is essential to success in cash games imo.

I'll also set a stop-loss: I won't allow myself to lose more than 2 buyins a night at the casino. The only exception is if the games are exceptionally juicy (and I'll be strict on this: if it's not in the top 5% of tables I've ever sat at, then it doesn't count), of which case I'll allow 3 buyins and no more. I find that no matter how soft the table is, I'm almost always going to be a -EV player after losing a certain amount of buyins in a row.

My bankroll limits will be:
Less than 10k: Grind $1/$3 live and 25nl online
10k to 20k: Grind mostly $1/$3 live but take shots at $2/$5 when the games appear juicy. Grind whatever stakes I can beat online.
20k to 50k: Grind mostly $2/$5 live but take shots at $5/$10 when the games appear juicy. Grind whatever stakes I can beat online.
50k to 100k: Grind mostly $5/$10 live but take 1 buyin shots at $10/$20 whenever it runs. Grind whatever stakes I can beat online.
100k+: Grind whatever the highest live game I can find runs, up to $10/$20. Grind whatever stakes I can beat online. Potentially get into PLO too for more game variety.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:20 AM   #129
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Dude, five years is a long time to grind poker. Your mindset will be SO utterly different even after three or four months of straight grinding; you will think you were crazy to have thought you were going to grind for five years.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:45 AM   #130
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by spirit123 View Post
Dude, five years is a long time to grind poker. Your mindset will be SO utterly different even after three or four months of straight grinding; you will think you were crazy to have thought you were going to grind for five years.
What do you recommend instead then? Should I refrain from setting long-term goals?
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:15 AM   #131
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Read his PG&C thread. Whether you agree with his view or not, it will both answer your last question and offer some interesting insight.

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Old 04-16-2018, 09:56 PM   #132
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

If you are winning consistently at 1/3 @ Crown you are doing well. Except for weekends, there are way too many nitty regulars ......the $15 rake is too tough. But that's just me; if you are beating it then just keep doing what you are doing.
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:25 AM   #133
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

I think 10% capped at $15 is easily beatable, especially when the buyin is 100bbs and there are often a few players with 300bb+ stacks. Plus we don't have to tip in Australia, whereas American players have to tip everytime they win a medium sized pot, which would add up a lot.

The game that sucks is $1/$2 which is 10% capped at $20, with a 50bb max buyin, and where it's common to see the biggest stack on the table having less than 200bbs. I think it's still possible to be a slight winner even at $1/$2, but it wouldn't be worth your time.
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:34 AM   #134
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by Lordkjun View Post
Read his PG&C thread. Whether you agree with his view or not, it will both answer your last question and offer some interesting insight.

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I read part of the thread just then but it was very long so I didn't have time to read the whole thing.

My impression of spirit is that he's a strong poker player but he has mental issues such as depression which makes him unable to grind for more than a few months at a time.

There are plenty of pro poker players that grind for years, even decades, without needing to take more than a few weeks break at a time, so why can't I be like them?
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:55 AM   #135
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Extracting value with obvious trips

I've been in similar spots multiple times and I'm often unsure how to extract the most value when you flop the most obvious trips.

$800 effective at $1/$3.
1 limper
MP raises $15
Hero 3bets $50 BTN with KQs
MP calls $50

Flop ($97) is KK7r

MP checks
Hero bets $20 (I'm betting this size with my entire range)
MP raises to $55
Hero calls $55

Turn ($202) is KK74 flush draw which I don't have

MP checks
Hero checks

River ($202) is KK743 no flush

MP checks
Hero bets $180 (planning to fold to any raise)
MP tank calls $180

Our trips are good. But could we have played this better?
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:59 AM   #136
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
I read part of the thread just then but it was very long so I didn't have time to read the whole thing.

My impression of spirit is that he's a strong poker player but he has mental issues such as depression which makes him unable to grind for more than a few months at a time.

There are plenty of pro poker players that grind for years, even decades, without needing to take more than a few weeks break at a time, so why can't I be like them?
Try it, dude. You have no idea what it's like until you actually do it for an extended period.

Even pros go through periods where they are not playing well, running well, feeling well. It's tough to power through these times. Variance will make you question everything you ever thought you knew about poker. Folding for hours on end, day after day, week after week is mentally and emotionally draining.

Just go at it. See what it's like. If you can make it a month, go 2. If you can do 2, go 3. See what the lifestyle is like. See if you can handle the variance and the stress and the grind. If you can, you can evaluate if you think it's worth it in the long run or if you're good enough to cut it.

Why are you planning five years ahead in this crazy unpredictable game, when you're really just an advanced beginner and haven't been in the grind for any significant stretch of time? If you have to ask others if you should go pro, the answer is a resounding NO.

You have to be a ruthless killer in this game to make any significant money. Do you have the killer instinct? Do you know how to manipulate people into doing what you want them to do? You have to be obsessed with this game and be willing to lose a lot of money and put in thousands of hours of play and study before you get anywhere close to good. Are you willing to do this?

Stop believing everything you see/hear/read about professional poker players. You only hear the successes. You don't hear about the ones that don't succeed or that quit to do something else. You don't hear about the breaks some players take. You only hear about the grind, because that's all that matters in the poker world. As soon as a player takes a break, he's useless to the people who make money from running the games/training sites, etc. You'll just hear about the next up-and-comer until that's old, and then it's the new guy.
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:58 PM   #137
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Spewed away $200 online

I played online for the first time properly in almost 2 months. I deposited 150 USD, ran it up to 200 USD at 25nlz, then got bored/tilted and started making really spewy plays. It makes no sense that I can sit at a live table and fold every hand for 2 hours straight, yet I can somehow get bored when I'm playing 500 hands per hour online. Anyway, I spewed off 4 buyins at 25nlz, then jumped into a 100 USD HU PLO SnG, despite the fact that I hate heads up games, I hate PLO and I suck at SnGs. I obviously got owned there and busted my online bankroll.

Currently $850 down online and $7213 up live.

Here's an example of a hand where I spewed away almost a buyin at 25nl:

$21 effective, 6-handed online
Villain raises 75c UTG
Hero calls 75c BB with A9dd

Flop ($1.60) is Td 5c 4s

Hero checks
Villain bets 50c
Hero raises $2
Villain calls $2

Turn ($5.60) is Td 5c 4s Ts

Hero bets $2.80
Villain calls $2.80

River ($11.20) is Td 5c 4s Ts Kh

Hero jams $15.45
Villain snap calls $15.45 with KTo

Most of what I lost came from me pulling crazy bluffs like that. The thing that tilted me was that I'd never get paid when I hit a hand, yet I'd always get called when I bluffed.

So I think I'll take a break from online poker for a few days and just play live, since live is going much better. Also I feel like playing both at the same time is probably bad. It's better for me to spend a few weeks just playing live and a few weeks just playing online, so that I don't start making online plays at a low stakes live table and vice versa.
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Old 04-17-2018, 05:01 PM   #138
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
I read part of the thread just then but it was very long so I didn't have time to read the whole thing.

My impression of spirit is that he's a strong poker player but he has mental issues such as depression which makes him unable to grind for more than a few months at a time.

There are plenty of pro poker players that grind for years, even decades, without needing to take more than a few weeks break at a time, so why can't I be like them?
There's very few people who have the ability to play poker full time, and those who do usually only do it for 5-10 years max and then get out of the game and move onto other things. It's just such a poor life choice these days. What's your plan for 5 or 10 years down the line? Are you still going to be grinding? It's a very short term way of making money and it doesn't lead anywhere. You should slowly but surely ween yourself off playing and look for a different career path.
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:16 PM   #139
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

I played (live) full time for 18 months. Unless you are in the middle of (and stay in) a heater (and most people that go pro we’re probably on a heater when they made the decision) then it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.

Playing full time is the nut low. Infinitely better as a side hustle.
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Old 04-18-2018, 02:44 AM   #140
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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I played (live) full time for 18 months. Unless you are in the middle of (and stay in) a heater (and most people that go pro weíre probably on a heater when they made the decision) then itís not all itís cracked up to be.

Playing full time is the nut low. Infinitely better as a side hustle.
I'd argue that working as a pizza delivery driver for 4 years straight without being given the chance for a promotion to manager is a lot worse than being a professional poker player. My income, status and lifestyle would all go up from where they are now. And I got kicked out of uni so I don't have much else to look forward to beyond poker and maybe investing in the stock market later in life.
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Old 04-18-2018, 06:53 AM   #141
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
I'd argue that working as a pizza delivery driver for 4 years straight without being given the chance for a promotion to manager is a lot worse than being a professional poker player. My income, status and lifestyle would all go up from where they are now. And I got kicked out of uni so I don't have much else to look forward to beyond poker and maybe investing in the stock market later in life.
You should learn a trade or a skill that will get you somewhere in life. If you aim to quit poker within the next 6 months, then spend 50 hours/week for the next 6 months learning how to program, then apply for programming jobs, you will get so much further in life.
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Old 04-18-2018, 12:28 PM   #142
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
I played (live) full time for 18 months. Unless you are in the middle of (and stay in) a heater (and most people that go pro weíre probably on a heater when they made the decision) then itís not all itís cracked up to be.

Playing full time is the nut low. Infinitely better as a side hustle.
I have to agree, I have never actually tried playing full time live but I can say I have seen and heard many poker players, even the winning ones, say that it is mentally draining. I would highly recommend taking a class or 2 on the side for something you could grow into a career later on if poker doesn't pan out.

In some ways I am so glad i didn't make hit a big score early in my early 20s at poker. I feel like knowing what i know now I would have lost it all just like I lost most of the 12k i won aside from buying personal things.

In a way losing may have been the best thing that ever happen to me. I focused on a professional career that I love doing everyday, and I still enjoy poker as a side gig/hobby on a lot of my free time without the stress of knowing i need to win or lose to keep my house and cars.

That being said, it has been done people have grinded and succeded. But just like being a professional in some sport. It is very few that get it done and probably does require some life run/good.

Best of luck in this poker/life journey!
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:50 PM   #143
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
I played (live) full time for 18 months. Unless you are in the middle of (and stay in) a heater (and most people that go pro weíre probably on a heater when they made the decision) then itís not all itís cracked up to be.

Playing full time is the nut low. Infinitely better as a side hustle.
This.

Very few poker pros left in Australia playing live. Playing pool has shifted; the bottom 20% doesn't exist anymore. But more importantly, psychological resilience is rare - few have the mindset to be totally downswing-proof.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:57 PM   #144
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by Trumps hit View Post
This.

Very few poker pros left in Australia playing live. Playing pool has shifted; the bottom 20% doesn't exist anymore. But more importantly, psychological resilience is rare - few have the mindset to be totally downswing-proof.
Yup. Downswings are so difficult to withstand. I mean, even 2 losing sessions in a row is tough for me to swallow, and I've been playing for quite a while. Wannabe pros have no idea the stress that losing significant money brings.
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:25 PM   #145
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

It's because in poker, it can be very difficult to know whether you're running bad or playing bad. Or you might be playing well, but just against opposition that is too good for you. The math isn't exact in the way it would be for a game like blackjack or roulette (obviously those are negative edge games, but you get the point).
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:13 PM   #146
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Okay this was a bit spewy

1/3, $750 effective with CO, $350 effective with SB

3 limpers
Hero raises $25 BTN with Th 9d (why the f**k did i do this?)
Asian woman flats $25 SB
CO flats $25

Flop ($76, 3ways) is 8d 7h 3d

Asian Woman tanks, looks like she's about to lead out, then checks
CO donks $20
Hero raises $80
Asian Woman 3bets to $200?!
CO folds
At this point it should've been an easy fold, but...
Hero jams $325 (pure spew, since I have zero fold equity and I'm lucky to even have 35% equity against the very bottom of her range)

Gg. She calls with KJdd and wins.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:17 PM   #147
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

This one somehow worked though?

1/3, $320 effective

3 limpers
Hero raises $23 BTN with A8cc
SB calls, 2 of the limpers call

Flop ($89, 4ways) is Qc 8d 2c

3 checks
Hero bets $50
SB raises to $100
2 folds
Hero jams $300
SB snap calls $300

Runout is Qc 8d 2c 6s 9s

I flip over my pair of 8s and villain mucks?! He claims he had a weaker pair and he "put me on a flush draw".
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:22 PM   #148
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Such an exploitable fold...

1/3, $500 effective

UTG opens $10
Hero 3bets $35 UTG+1 with Ks Kc
UTG calls $35

Flop ($67) is Qd Jc 7d

UTG checks
Hero Cbets $50
UTG raises to $150
Hero tank folds
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:12 AM   #149
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevertilt19 View Post
I have to agree, I have never actually tried playing full time live but I can say I have seen and heard many poker players, even the winning ones, say that it is mentally draining. I would highly recommend taking a class or 2 on the side for something you could grow into a career later on if poker doesn't pan out.

In some ways I am so glad i didn't make hit a big score early in my early 20s at poker. I feel like knowing what i know now I would have lost it all just like I lost most of the 12k i won aside from buying personal things.

In a way losing may have been the best thing that ever happen to me. I focused on a professional career that I love doing everyday, and I still enjoy poker as a side gig/hobby on a lot of my free time without the stress of knowing i need to win or lose to keep my house and cars.

That being said, it has been done people have grinded and succeded. But just like being a professional in some sport. It is very few that get it done and probably does require some life run/good.

Best of luck in this poker/life journey!
It can definitely be mentally draining for sure. Even I've noticed from the time I took a 1 month break off poker that I just felt happier. But the way I see it is that any job can be stressful. Lawyers and law students have a very high suicide rate. If you want to earn 6+ figures a year then you generally need to take on a profession that is more stressful and mentally draining than the average job. And if it's not mentally draining, then it will be physically draining, like working in the mines or on an oil rig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumps hit View Post
This.

Very few poker pros left in Australia playing live. Playing pool has shifted; the bottom 20% doesn't exist anymore. But more importantly, psychological resilience is rare - few have the mindset to be totally downswing-proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit123 View Post
Yup. Downswings are so difficult to withstand. I mean, even 2 losing sessions in a row is tough for me to swallow, and I've been playing for quite a while. Wannabe pros have no idea the stress that losing significant money brings.
I remember sitting on a $10/$20 table once (this was extremely degen of me since I had only 4k to my name but anyway) at Crown and I remember seeing a guy in his late 20s losing a few buyins and talking in a semi-joking way about how his poker career is finished. He said he was previously up 66k for the year but just went on an 18k downswing over the past few weeks. It seemed to have a huge mental toll on him.

I've also been following a lot of live poker vloggers on YouTube. Both Andrew Neeme and Brad Owen appear to be going through the biggest downswings of their careers (10k and 8k respectively, mostly at 5/10), so it will be interesting to see how they battle through it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMeRightRound View Post
It's because in poker, it can be very difficult to know whether you're running bad or playing bad. Or you might be playing well, but just against opposition that is too good for you. The math isn't exact in the way it would be for a game like blackjack or roulette (obviously those are negative edge games, but you get the point).
In some ways I agree, but on a loose-passive table, like a table full of mega fish, you can usually tell that you're a winning player that's just running bad, since you're making logical decisions and getting people in spots where they're usually going to be dominated etc.
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Old 04-20-2018, 09:57 AM   #150
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
Such an exploitable fold...

1/3, $500 effective

UTG opens $10
Hero 3bets $35 UTG+1 with Ks Kc
UTG calls $35

Flop ($67) is Qd Jc 7d

UTG checks
Hero Cbets $50
UTG raises to $150
Hero tank folds
Any history with this player? This is a very tricky board and definitely a questionable fold against most of his range. I've been considering betting smaller in situations like this with all my cbets.

Hand 1 was nice though it always feels good to have donks ship it in with nothing, those are the types of hands we tend to forget about when donks are getting lucky on us though.
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