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Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

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Old 05-07-2018, 07:54 AM   #276
MikeStarr
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
The purpose of me taking time off was just to give me a rest from poker and make me feel refreshed. I said before that I couldn't pinpoint the exact amount of time off that would make me feel that way, but it turns out that 2.5 days was enough. All I needed basically was a weekend off and then I felt ready to go back last night. If anything, I think it's a great thing that I'm motivated enough to bounce right back into things after only a short break. I don't see it as a bad thing that I cut my holiday short.

I think that variance goes down a lot, at both NLHE and PLO, when you play tight. And like KatoKrazy said, PLO is often a gold mine because people have no idea how to play. Poker is a game of relative skill, not absolute skill. I'd rather be a fish on a table full of whales than a competent pro on a table full of other competent pros. Even though I'm far better at NLHE than I am at PLO, I feel that my edge is similar, if not slightly higher, at the PLO game, due to how bad my opponents are.

How do you want me to reflect on how I've been "wasting away my life"? The damage has already been done. My ex already left me. Already f**ked up uni. Already went bust and had to rebuild everything from the ground up. I'm at the point now where I have basically nothing left to lose, except the money I've made over the past 2 months and except for my current girlfriend, who seems somewhat accepting of me playing poker anyway.

If there is ever a point in my entire life where playing poker is the responsible thing to do, then this is it: I'm 24 years old, I don't study, I'm not married, I don't have kids, I don't have any professional job and I don't have any debt. This is literally the optimal time for me to be playing poker. Maybe in a few years I'll go back to uni and I won't be able to grind as much. Then I'll get a full-time office job and again, I won't have much time to spare on poker. Maybe in a decade I'll get married and have kids and responsibilities. This is the one time in my life, right now, when I'm not tied down to anything.

And I don't want to spend my life asking myself "what if?" What if I had just gone the extra mile? What if I had given poker everything I had? What if I sacrificed everything to make this work? Could I have been the high stakes reg making $300k+ per year? I want a clear answer to these questions. I don't want to sit on my death bed pondering at all of the things that I might've been able to accomplish if I had just seized the opportunity and given it everything I had.
This is what 24 year olds say. 29 year olds say "I wish I was more responsible when I was 24. Its so tough starting over at 29"
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Old 05-07-2018, 08:01 AM   #277
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
This is what 24 year olds say. 29 year olds say "I wish I was more responsible when I was 24. Its so tough starting over at 29"
I am 28 and this is basically what I'm saying. I am also suggesting solutions for it but OP will never ever listen.

Quote:
And I don't want to spend my life asking myself "what if?" What if I had just gone the extra mile? What if I had given poker everything I had? What if I sacrificed everything to make this work? Could I have been the high stakes reg making $300k+ per year? I want a clear answer to these questions
I can give you clear answers to all these questions. Problem is you will reject the answers.
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:45 AM   #278
DianeAbbott
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

I'm 26 and couldn't agree more with what Crown says, I have so many regrets with poker, money and life in general that I wish I could go back even a few years and change, but I can't. I also empathise with OP because when people told me mistakes I was making I didn't listen and that's because when you're in that mindset you refuse to listen and you will make the same mistakes everyone else has. Unfortunately that is the feeling I get here. You will go broke but we will be here to give you that advice when you do. I really hope you don't but we're not the bad guys, we simply just see ourselves in you and know the end result.
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:27 AM   #279
MikeStarr
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by DianeAbbott View Post
I'm 26 and couldn't agree more with what Crown says, I have so many regrets with poker, money and life in general that I wish I could go back even a few years and change, but I can't. I also empathise with OP because when people told me mistakes I was making I didn't listen and that's because when you're in that mindset you refuse to listen and you will make the same mistakes everyone else has. Unfortunately that is the feeling I get here. You will go broke but we will be here to give you that advice when you do. I really hope you don't but we're not the bad guys, we simply just see ourselves in you and know the end result.
I rest my case. At least Diane caught on at 26...not 29...or 31...or later
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Old 05-07-2018, 01:22 PM   #280
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

At least he isn't living in his car, yet.
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:29 PM   #281
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by DianeAbbott View Post
I'm 26 and couldn't agree more with what Crown says, I have so many regrets with poker, money and life in general that I wish I could go back even a few years and change, but I can't. I also empathise with OP because when people told me mistakes I was making I didn't listen and that's because when you're in that mindset you refuse to listen and you will make the same mistakes everyone else has. Unfortunately that is the feeling I get here. You will go broke but we will be here to give you that advice when you do. I really hope you don't but we're not the bad guys, we simply just see ourselves in you and know the end result.
This sentence.
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:40 PM   #282
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

"You're always straddling my big blind!"

So I just sat on a 1/3 table where the only player straddling was the guy to my left. My contention is that it is extremely -EV to be on a table where the only player straddling is to your direct left.

So here's my rationale: your win rate, in bb/100, is going to vary depending on your position; you'll have the highest win rate on BTN and the lowest win rate on BB. In fact, even if you're the best player on the table by far, it's still highly likely that you have a negative win rate in the BB position. Imagine sitting on a table of fish where you have to play the BB every single hand. It would be extremely hard, if not impossible, to achieve a positive long-term win rate on that table.

Straddling increases the effective blinds, which amplifies your win rate for any given position. If a 1/3 game has a $10 straddle, then your win rate should go up by over 3x (and significantly higher than 3x if you're not involved in the straddle but others are). But here's the thing: since you have a negative win rate in the BB, you're going to have an even more negative win rate when UTG straddles on your BB. It's possible that, even if you were previously a winning player on a specific table, the fact that you're now losing a significantly higher amount once per orbit could be such a drastic change that it could make your overall win rate for the entire orbit negative.

You want people to straddle when you're in any position other than the SB or BB. You do not want people to straddle when you're in the blinds.

It's a great thing to have other people on the table straddling when you're not involved. It increases your win rate significantly. You just don't want them to only straddle when you're in the blinds: you want them to straddle from all positions (well ideally, you want them straddling from all positions except when you're in the blinds, but that's asking for a bit much).
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:03 PM   #283
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

wouldn't the straddle increase your winrate since the straddler is making a -ev play?
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:19 PM   #284
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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wouldn't the straddle increase your winrate since the straddler is making a -ev play?
No, it increases everyone else's win rate, but worsens the win rates of the SB and BB.

To try to put it into numbers:
In a 1/3 game, you're probably losing, on average, about $1 per hand each time you're in the BB.
In a 1/3/10 game, you're probably losing about $2.50 each time you're in the BB.

Now multiply $1.50 by 4 (since you have about 4 orbits per hour) and this means that your hourly win rate goes down by $6/hr when UTG straddles against your BB.

(These are just estimates btw).

Last edited by 6bet me; 05-07-2018 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:39 PM   #285
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Nah because the money you lose in the blinds is from you paying the blinds, not actually from being in a losing position, your winrate should increase (if you're a winning player) from straddles because the stake size has effectively increased but you still only putting in 1 big blind
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:44 PM   #286
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

OP's housing market sounds a lot like the one here. I'll be honest, I'm not exactly sure how the next generation is going to manage, especially since the long awaited bubble burst correction no longer looks like it will happen.

And if there is one time in OPs life where he's in a position where he can likely afford to do something stupid and completely fail, this is probably the best time.

Having said that, the pipe dreams of being a $300K/year high stakes pro seem incredibly unrealistic in every manner.

Still think the best option is just to move forward like everyone else, find a job you can tolerate, maybe move sideways / upwards within that job as opportunities come up, and keep poker as purely a hobby.

Not sure what I think about the guy next to my BB always straddling. At a fish filled game where I really want to get into a pot for cheap it's annoying. But other times it can work out wonderful when I get a big hand and the straddle creates a pot I can more easily raise large. Plus he is putting dead money into the pot in EP (which has to be -EV, which I'll never try to persuade someone from doing). Overall, I'm pretty sure people doing -EV moves works out in my favour, although there may be counter arguments that would convince me otherwise (I'm guessing a "schooling: example might convince me).

GgoodluckG
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:14 PM   #287
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Nah because the money you lose in the blinds is from you paying the blinds, not actually from being in a losing position, your winrate should increase (if you're a winning player) from straddles because the stake size has effectively increased but you still only putting in 1 big blind
You seem to have ignored my argument completely, which I even backed up with a specific example.

Yes, the UTG player is making a -EV play, but the extra EV added to the table will go to the players in UTG+1 through to the BTN. It will not go to the SB or BB, who will in fact be worse off.

When you're in the BB, you don't immediately lose 1bb in EV, because you're able to realise some of your equity. If a few players limp then you can check and see a flop. Occassionally you'll get a walk and win the sb and get your bb back too. And when someone does open, it's usually a manageable sizing that allows you to defend your big blind.

See how that completely changes when UTG straddles to $10? Now it's impossible for you to get a walk, you're going to have to pay $7 at the bare minimum to see a flop, the open raises will be $30 which means you can't defend as often... ultimately, you're going to lose almost the full 1bb in EV when this happens.

Does that make sense?
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:30 PM   #288
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

I think utg straddles increase the EV for every other player at the table including blinds. There should be roughly 2x as much money in the pot which means more money to win when we have a value hand. The EV the bb loses from never getting a walk should be more than made up for by the additional dead money to win.
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:32 PM   #289
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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You seem to have ignored my argument completely
......that's....
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:34 PM   #290
jordan1352
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
You seem to have ignored my argument completely, which I even backed up with a specific example.

Yes, the UTG player is making a -EV play, but the extra EV added to the table will go to the players in UTG+1 through to the BTN. It will not go to the SB or BB, who will in fact be worse off.

When you're in the BB, you don't immediately lose 1bb in EV, because you're able to realise some of your equity. If a few players limp then you can check and see a flop. Occassionally you'll get a walk and win the sb and get your bb back too. And when someone does open, it's usually a manageable sizing that allows you to defend your big blind.

See how that completely changes when UTG straddles to $10? Now it's impossible for you to get a walk, you're going to have to pay $7 at the bare minimum to see a flop, the open raises will be $30 which means you can't defend as often... ultimately, you're going to lose almost the full 1bb in EV when this happens.

Does that make sense?
But you have more dead money in the pot for there to be won.
For simple example use $1/$2 over your sample in big blind position your losing $1.50 a hand, so your losing the 1 big blind you put in and winning an extra 0 25 big blinds. With a straddle to $4 the stakes are increased, your still only putting in $2 but now the big blind is effectively $4 so you would win 0.25 big blinds or $1 and minus the $2 you're forced to put in. So now you're only losing $1 a hand in the big blind with the straddle.
Yes an utg straddle is most beneficial to the people in utg+1 through to button. And is least beneficial to players in the blinds. But still better than utg not straddling. If you're a winning player you gain more ev fron the stakes being increased than from your lost ev from never getting a walk

Last edited by jordan1352; 05-07-2018 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:44 PM   #291
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Having said that, the pipe dreams of being a $300K/year high stakes pro seem incredibly unrealistic in every manner.
I'm curious why you think this?

$300k/yr is only $120/hr * 50hrs/week * 50weeks/yr.

$120/hr is easily achievable at both $10/$20 NL and $5/$10 PLO at any brick and mortar casino that offers those games.

Given that I'm currently probably a slight winner at $5/$10 live (or breakeven at the bare minimum), what's stopping me from building up a bankroll, studying up a bit and becoming a crusher at $10/$20 live?
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:45 PM   #292
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
You seem to have ignored my argument completely, which I even backed up with a specific example.

Yes, the UTG player is making a -EV play, but the extra EV added to the table will go to the players in UTG+1 through to the BTN. It will not go to the SB or BB, who will in fact be worse off.

When you're in the BB, you don't immediately lose 1bb in EV, because you're able to realise some of your equity. If a few players limp then you can check and see a flop. Occassionally you'll get a walk and win the sb and get your bb back too. And when someone does open, it's usually a manageable sizing that allows you to defend your big blind.

See how that completely changes when UTG straddles to $10? Now it's impossible for you to get a walk, you're going to have to pay $7 at the bare minimum to see a flop, the open raises will be $30 which means you can't defend as often... ultimately, you're going to lose almost the full 1bb in EV when this happens.

Does that make sense?
You make some good points but the fact remains that the BB is still the position that loses the most, and this is because they are forced to put in 1bb with any 2 cards. The straddler also puts in money with any 2 cards so they are effectively the 'new' big blind, and therefore the straddle should now be the position that loses the most. I believe I would counter the arguments you made in your last paragraph by saying that the IP raiser needs to risk more to win the dead money, so when he gets 3bet he will lose more (which helps improve the BB winrate). I agree that players IP to the straddle will have larger winrate increases than players OOP, but I still think that the OOP players will have their winrates increased.

Maybe it's easier thinking about a 4 handed game involving SB, BB, UTG (straddle) and BTN. To me it's pretty crazy to think that the UTG's entire loss rate is consumed by the BTN and extra (BB/SB lose more as you argue).

Anyway I'm no expert so correct me if I'm wrong
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:02 PM   #293
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
I'm curious why you think this?

$300k/yr is only $120/hr * 50hrs/week * 50weeks/yr.

$120/hr is easily achievable at both $10/$20 NL and $5/$10 PLO at any brick and mortar casino that offers those games.

Given that I'm currently probably a slight winner at $5/$10 live (or breakeven at the bare minimum), what's stopping me from building up a bankroll, studying up a bit and becoming a crusher at $10/$20 live?
Id like you to name a person who beats $10/$20NL for $120/hr that puts in 2500 hrs per year. Id bet a lot of money there is not 1 single such person.

Im not even sure there is more than 1 location in the US where a person could get in 2500 hrs a year of 10/20. There may not be any.

Not too mention that beating 10/20 is not "easily achievable". It can be done but its certainly not easy.
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Old 05-07-2018, 05:10 PM   #294
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

ďEvery fool was young onceĒ - Denzel Washington in American Gangster

I think.... for the most part, you guys all mean well. And everyone has damn well been where OP is currently at.

Itís his own mistakes to make, and they do damn suck if things donít work out.
It certainly would be nice to have a fall back plan, but too many people are becoming too frustrated with OP... donít get too emotionally invested guys and just let him do his thing.

Ps: itís damn hard to get access to the big games. Also on top of that, as you can see at the crown casino, 5/5/10 rarely runs and itís just random nights.


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Old 05-07-2018, 06:03 PM   #295
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

the op has not played enough live poker to understand what he's saying is just nonsense for the most part. he has no perspective or experience. he hasn't been doing this for long. much of poker is still intellectual for him, and you can see his rationales have a lot of twisted logic and assumptions behind them.

it's ok. we can't change people. this thread is a great example of what happens when a person doesn't listen to other people. op simply does not have the great learner's capability. if he did, he probably wouldn't be delivering pizzas or arguing in an extremely passionate defensive manner.

this is not to say that some people can't make it to the highest stakes of poker. there are people that do, clearly. but it's so rare to have the intelligence, dedication and calculatedness necessary to succeed at the higher stakes.

also, there are people who could make it to the highest stakes with a bit more study/play, but they lose their passion for the game. lots of people drop out around mid-stakes. once you reach 5/T as a very winning player, you are basically in the top 1% of the people to have ever played the game at any decent clip and you are considered a true professional. most people who play can't even compete at 1/2-2/3 NL, let alone move up to 5/T. but even at the higher stakes, great players go broke because variance and tilt.

but op has played like 50 hours (if that) of 5/T and he thinks he knows how to beat it. This is simply a result of lack of perspective. he's at the very beginning of his poker playing and he thinks he's the best. all of us go through a phase (or several) like this. it's variance and tilt that bring us back to earth and realize we can be the best when we are playing well, but none of that matters if we spew chips when we are playing bad. In my limited experience with 5/T, 5/T/20 there is a huge skill jump from 2/5.

plus, he's 24. he's just a kid. im only a few years older, but i look back at my 20's and think, "wow, i was so blind and pretty arrogant and bull-headed." I didn't really listen to people. I still don't.

Last edited by spirit123; 05-07-2018 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 05-07-2018, 06:15 PM   #296
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Delusional thinking and poker . It's a common theme in a lot of these threads. I mean you've got guys who have been playing poker for years, living in their cars still thinking they are going to make it some day. It's quite sad really.
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Old 05-07-2018, 07:27 PM   #297
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
I'm curious why you think this?

$300k/yr is only $120/hr * 50hrs/week * 50weeks/yr.

$120/hr is easily achievable at both $10/$20 NL and $5/$10 PLO at any brick and mortar casino that offers those games.

Given that I'm currently probably a slight winner at $5/$10 live (or breakeven at the bare minimum), what's stopping me from building up a bankroll, studying up a bit and becoming a crusher at $10/$20 live?
wow dude

this is your most delusional post yet and thereís been quite a few of them
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Old 05-07-2018, 07:38 PM   #298
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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wow dude

this is your most delusional post yet and thereís been quite a few of them
the post is an indication of how slow OP actually is. that kind of thinking is completely based in a fantasy realm he only dreams of. He's playing and running good at 1/3 and 3/5 and thinks he's already able to crush 5/T and T/20 on a regular basis. easily achievable he says. He doesn't realize how delusional he is.

He's also talking about PLO and how beatable it is at higher limits. He clearly has no idea what he's talking about.

I mean...that's some serious ignorance.
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Old 05-07-2018, 07:40 PM   #299
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

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Originally Posted by 6bet me View Post
I'm curious why you think this?

$300k/yr is only $120/hr * 50hrs/week * 50weeks/yr.

$120/hr is easily achievable at both $10/$20 NL and $5/$10 PLO at any brick and mortar casino that offers those games.

Given that I'm currently probably a slight winner at $5/$10 live (or breakeven at the bare minimum), what's stopping me from building up a bankroll, studying up a bit and becoming a crusher at $10/$20 live?
Can you show me some precise calculations that made you arrive at this conclusion?
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:23 PM   #300
Crown
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Re: Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

Every poker player ever has run the calcs after an upswing. OPs forecast is unbelievably delusional. I literally can't believe he's serious. Does he have any idea how little poker players online and live, make 300k a year?

Study a little here and there and beat 10/20. Play 50 HOURS A WEEK FOR 50 WEEKS STRAIGHT. Let that sink in for a moment.

OP tilted after losing three buy ins and called it a downswing, being 1k down or smt. OP burning out already, while on the biggest heater of his life. OP hasn't made a single effort yet to improve.

OP needs to stop profiling himself as someone who wants to improve etc. He needs to embrace his inner-degen and let it flourish.

We are in for one hell of a ride the coming months ladies and gents!
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