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Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

07-15-2018 , 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo
6,

Also, you can keep saying it, but you’re not 30BB effective, you’re 100BB. That is a common error/fallacy wrt how people play in small games when there’s a straddle, which has recently been covered in depth in a couple of LLSNL posts.
Do you have links? Would love to check it out. I play in small games with a straddle and always mentally adjust my stack size in BBs to compensate.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 02:01 AM
Dog,

Don’t remember the threads, but one was in the last couple of days.

I think it was most recently talked about in a thread by poster breakeven-something about nut flush in a straddled pot at the bike.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 02:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me

And I told you my reason for straddling. It was a boring nitty table and I wanted to induce a bit of action. How much EV do you even think I'm losing by throwing out a $10 straddle? Maybe $6 in EV? If my win rate is $30/hr then I can afford to give up $6 in EV to potentially loosen up the table.

So you straddled because of boredom? That’s exactly how degenerates behave.

Oh, and please show your work that proves your $30/hr win rate.

Because I call bull****.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 02:05 AM
Prairie,

I’d bet everything I have that his winrate isn’t $30/hr.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo
Prairie,

I’d bet everything I have that his winrate isn’t $30/hr.
I'd bet $1K certainly, or in terms of what I suspect OP's win rate at 1/3 is, 500 hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogarse
Do you have links? Would love to check it out. I play in small games with a straddle and always mentally adjust my stack size in BBs to compensate.
I don't have any maths on it but IME people at 2/3 don't treat a straddle as shortening the stacks particularly. Like for example, the $6 straddle is reasonably common in my room but when people attack the straddle, they often raise to $15 or $20, which is pretty much what they would be open raising with anyway. If someone straddles to $15, and gets 2 callers, players don't go "OK now I'm 30bb deep" and ship AKo when sitting on $450.

EDIT

If people did treat the straddle exactly like a large BB, then it would indeed shorten the effective stacks as advertised. It's just that they don't, so it doesn't. What it does do, is tend to fatten the pot and create more action.

Last edited by WereBeer; 07-15-2018 at 02:28 AM.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 02:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo
Prairie,

I’d bet everything I have that his winrate isn’t $30/hr.
I bet if you lost the bet, you'd come up with some excuse like "no your win rate is $31.60/hr, I said it needs to be $30/hr exactly" or "your sample size is only 500 hours, come back when you have a sample size of at least 10k hours".
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Lol this isn't basic at all. There's a lot of grey area around 30bb play. Look at how hard some of the SnG experts study this spot.

I don't claim to know with 100% certainty what the correct ranges are, but I think that my ranges are okay. If there's any mistakes with my ranges, then they'd only be minor leaks, not massive ones.

Calling range = {22-66, 65s-QJs, 86s-QTs, A2s, A6s-A9s, A8o, A9o, ATo, KTo, KJo, QJo, QTo, JTo}
3bet/fold range = {A3s-A5s}
3bet/call range = {AK, KK, AA}
3bet jam range = {77-QQ, AJ, AQ, KQ, KJs, ATs}

Now who volunteers to come up with any better ranges against the aggro fish?



Typical response. You dodge the question. Your argument is "I don't know what I'd do in that hypothetical because I'd never put myself in that situation in the first place!"

Deep down, you're too embarrassed to give an educated guess because you're so clueless about how to play this spot that you know you'll make a fool of yourself if you try to answer the question. That's why you avoid answering it at all costs.
30BB? Did you not say he made it 30 and you jammed for 300 then won a 600 dollar pot? Were you drunk when writing the first post or this one?

Speculating on UTG straddle ranges 30BB deep in a 1/3 cash game is indeed completely pointless because

A) Straddling UTG is -EV so this spot should not exist.

B) It's not even clear how deep you are due to contradictory posts.

There's no point solving problems that do not exist.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
So when an aggro fish, who had previously made a 2.3x open from UTG with 74s, now makes a 3x raise in MP when you're 30bb effective, you're going to flat with 99 and AQ instead of 3betting? Seems way too nitty to me.
Did he open that before or after your straddle? Instead of debating ranges for this spot you should be trying to understand why straddling to increase the action and variance is ******ed to begin with. I thought you were a serious poker pro?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 02:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud
30BB? Did you not say he made it 30 and you jammed for 300 then won a 600 dollar pot? Were you drunk when writing the first post or this one?

Speculating on UTG straddle ranges 30BB deep in a 1/3 cash game is indeed completely pointless because

A) Straddling UTG is -EV so this spot should not exist.

B) It's not even clear how deep you are due to contradictory posts.

There's no point solving problems that do not exist.
It's 1/3/10, he's in the straddle with $300. Dude opens 3x to $30, hero rips $300.

Not sure how that was unclear to anyone.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 03:10 AM
Don't you just love it when you sit down on a table and there's 2 players arguing with each other, both of them are drunk, and they both start playing extremely LAGGY against each other to prove their ego?

I'm on a 1/3 NL table right now and it's a f**king gold mine. A woman just 4bet jammed $350 and then flipped over 94o.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 03:18 AM
$350 effective

Hero opens $15 UTG with KQo
OMC 3bet jams $24
Maniac woman cold 4bets to $90
Hero tank folds

Maniac woman had A3o. OMC had AKo.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 03:20 AM
6,

Is that accurate OMC had $24? If so, why would you not want to run KQ vs maniac woman who jammed 94o?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Diablo
6,

Is that accurate OMC had $24? If so, why would you not want to run KQ vs maniac woman who jammed 94o?
Yeah it's accurate. Well I thought her range is a bit stronger than usual when she jams into a locked pot. I'd be comfortable 5bet jamming a range like {99+, AQ+}, but I figured that since hands like KQo and AJo are the very bottom of my UTG opening range, then it's fine to fold them.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 03:53 AM
$200 effective

1 limper
Hero raises $18 BTN QJs
Maniac woman 3bets $55 BB
Hero calls $55

Flop ($110) J85r

Maniac jams $145
Hero snaps $145

At showdown she shows an 8, I show my hand and she mucks
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 04:08 AM
The piling on OP is excessive. Obviously this jaunt is not going to work out but the holier than thou **** is getting old hat.

Just enjoy the ride OP is taking us on. Whether he crashes and burns or not at least he took the plunge which is more than 99% of people on this forum can claim.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 04:08 AM
6,

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Yeah it's accurate. Well I thought her range is a bit stronger than usual when she jams into a locked pot. I'd be comfortable 5bet jamming a range like {99+, AQ+}, but I figured that since hands like KQo and AJo are the very bottom of my UTG opening range, then it's fine to fold them.

It’s not a jam, it’s basically a 3-bet after a standard open and a call.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 04:20 AM
Yo 6bet I did the maths on that KQ hand (against my nitty MP range)

My Opening range is from Mp is AA-66,AKo-ATo,KQo-KJo,QJo,AKs-ATs,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs (147 combos)

My calling range to your jam is AA-QQ,AKo,AKs (24 combos)

I am calling with 16.3% of my range.

Since you are jamming 290 to win 44, I theoretically shouldn't be folding more than 86% of my range.

Against my calling range 6Bet has 20.7% equity.

The EV now, including crown’s rake.

EV= ((44-4 rake) x.84) + ((604-15 rake) x .207 equity x .16) - (300 x .79 x .16)
= 33.6 + 19.5 -37.92
= 15.18

Against me, yes I guess this is profitable, but so much variance. Against idiots at 1/3 who could potentially call you with AJs or will call AQo every single time, I doubt this is +ev.

Dude so many better spots, you can get so much ev just from fish calling you down with top pair marginal kicker when you have top top.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 05:43 AM
So I ultimately cashed out $149 profit. The maniac went broke after busting over 1k and the game kind of died down. Plus I'm meeting my girlfriend soon to celebrate, so it's actually pretty good timing.

There were a few small coolers along the way, like me checking back the flop with K9dd for pot control on an Ad 9c 8c flop, only for my opponent to turn bottom set and get 1 street of value out of me. And stacking off with KQ against the maniac's J7s and her getting there (she was pretty short stacked at the time, so I don't mind).

But like, not even exaggerating, I literally believe a $100/hr win rate is attainable on a table like that, especially when the maniac gets deep-stacked and jams $400 into a $40 pot on 872r with middle pair, like she did before.

I felt kind of bad for her. She was actually really respectful and friendly the whole time, even when she was losing buyin after buyin. The dealers were giving her a really hard time, yelling at her to stack her chips neatly and threatening to sit her out for an orbit. They were also super harsh about string betting and acting out of turn, even when it was clearly an accident. It kind of angers me that the dealers can be this disrespectful to the whales. They're clearly just there to have a fun time and gamble it up. If you're going to be super strict about the rules, then do it towards one of the regs, not towards the whale.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 05:46 AM
Quote:
The piling on OP is excessive. Obviously this jaunt is not going to work out but the holier than thou **** is getting old hat.

Just enjoy the ride OP is taking us on. Whether he crashes and burns or not at least he took the plunge which is more than 99% of people on this forum can claim.
Yes and No.

Yes... op is plunging in, posting like he means it and providing an entertaining thread. gg wp op.

No...imo it is highly doubtful everything op is posting is truthful.

Yes... op is drawing a lot of stick (not sure much of it is "holier than thou, but w/e) some of which is maybe a little ott.

No... however, a great deal of what has been posted in this thread has been genuine sincere and good advice from some great posters with an excellent 2+2 track record. Personally, I've always liked the fact that whenever I've posted **** about poker anywhere on 2+2, somebody has been pretty quick to flame me on it, and that has made me a better player, because I'm blessed to have both a transmit and receive facility.

Last edited by Fatboy54; 07-15-2018 at 05:53 AM.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy54
No...imo it is highly doubtful everything op is posting is truthful.
Care to elaborate on which parts you disagree with? Is it the technicalities like the hand histories which you think I made up, or the session results, or the lifestyle posts?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 06:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
I don't have equilab so I'm unable to put in ranges. These are just educated guesses. I can do some rough maths in my head to justify it, like I know that KQ is ahead of a range of {22+, KT+, QT+}. I just count the number of hands which I dominate (KT, KJ, QT, QJ) vs the number of hands that dominate me (AQ, AK, QQ+). But obviously if I wanted more precise answers, I'd need to be clairvoyant about villain's range and I'd also need equilab. It's all just guesswork in the end.
FWIW, equilab is free to download. And KQo isn't ahead of the range you give.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 06:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogarse
It's 1/3/10, he's in the straddle with $300. Dude opens 3x to $30, hero rips $300.

Not sure how that was unclear to anyone.
It's unclear because that's an unusual straddle amount. Normally it's twice the BB, and 30 dollars is still 10BB, and they're 100BB deep. Also the straddle does not suddenly change the game to 1/3/whatever. Theoretically ok maybe but I seriously doubt the PFR's open raise range is much different whether there's a straddle or not. So this idea OP has that villain must be opening super wide because they're only 30BB deep and therefore he should 3 bet jam KQo is just absurd.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 07:22 AM
Well it technically wasn't a straddle, it was a "blind raise", meaning I don't get my option back if it limps around.

My casino doesn't allow straddles in games below 5/5.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 07:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
FWIW, equilab is free to download. And KQo isn't ahead of the range you give.
Put in some suited connectors and suited Aces, add a bit of fold equity and bam, it's good.

Besides, I feel like it's never a bad thing to give off a loose image at the table you're playing on. When I stacked the OMC AQ vs AK, it was an AJxQ board, I x/raised the turn to $225 and jammed the rest in on the brick river. I think if I had a tighter image, he might've been able to get away from his AK there.

Showing people that I was willing to put $300 in preflop with KQo allowed me to extract more value later on.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-15-2018 , 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Put in some suited connectors and suited Aces, add a bit of fold equity and bam, it's good.

Besides, I feel like it's never a bad thing to give off a loose image at the table you're playing on. When I stacked the OMC AQ vs AK, it was an AJxQ board, I x/raised the turn to $225 and jammed the rest in on the brick river. I think if I had a tighter image, he might've been able to get away from his AK there.

Showing people that I was willing to put $300 in preflop with KQo allowed me to extract more value later on.
I'm beginning to think this is all one epic troll.
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