If he is in the black every single month and is covering his expenses, what makes him a breakeven player?? Is it because he cant add to his BR and move up?? At this point, i would classify pure as a winning player. At the end of every month he is consistently ahead. Just because hes not adding to his BR at the moment doesnt mean he is breaking even. He has mentioned he is content at the stakes he is playing and hey...the guy enjoys what he does. Here is how I look at it....if he was flipping burgers at mcdonalds and was able to pay his bills but couldnt do much else, does that make him a failure? I think anyone who can take care of their own and enjoy what they do in the process is more than winning...

I never called him a failure, but if your paying your bills and not adding to your BR you are a break even player after bills. OP makes X amount of dollars let say 2k his bills are lets say for this analogy is 2k therefore he is barely above water he has 4.5 k for his BR, did you read the thread? He very easily could lose 800 in a day which he has before... do you play poker? have you ever had a horrible week or 2 or even a month? very easily he could lose 3k in a month + his expenses and BR would be 0. Its amazing how great hes playing and winning every month but variance will kick in and who knows maybe not this month, or next and i hope never but its very possible for OP to lose $ for an entire month. Btw when you say that just cause hes paying his bills and not adding to his BR does not make him a break even player- actually it does. Break even pretty easily to understand hes breaking even every month or just about. His BR hasnt really changed and anyone will tell you u-u need x amount of buyins to avoid variance but he is going with less of a BR than he should obv OP knows this, thats why he says if he goes busto its no big deal cause he will find a career and stop playing poker for a living.

4.5k roll, you're playing 1/2 NL and 2/4 NL.. for a living, and you're extremely confident in your game?

I think I read your original post in the wrong context. I agree when you say he is a breakeven player...because hes not adding to his roll. I do play poker, I played for a living for over 2 years. I know variance...i know it well lol. This thread is coming up on its year anniversary...PURE started with a 1600 BR. Im not too sure if this was his Liferoll at the start or if it was just his Bankroll. If it was his Liferoll, then he has been able to pay all of his bills for 12 months, and add almost 3k. Some people dont really consider that an accomplishment. But for someone who lives a simple life like myself, thats pretty good. Being able to have over 4k on hand is a lot better than most people in this country are able to do. You take the avg joe...who makes 15-20 dollars an hour and hates his life slaving 40 hours a week for a boss he cant stand at a job where he cant wait to quit, but he cant...because he has bills to take care of. Id rather be in pures position at this point....

you guys have no idea what a 'breakeven player' is. a breakeven player can't pay a bill without dipping into his bankroll.

this kid is making a living playing poker. that's not breaking even. that is showing a profit and supporting himself.

He's not break even by typical definition since he is paying his bills and padding his roll a little, but at this point he is still one bad month away from being on a very short roll. When you are at 1/2 looking to move up you really need to live a nitty lifestyle and cut down on all expenses so that you are able to add to the bankroll. It's not a good idea to stay at 1/2 with no plan/financial ability to move up. You don't have to have aspiration of playing in Bobby's room, but you need to move up to 2/5 at the minimum to support yourself and have a low risk of ruin.

playing 2-5 you can have a +5k week if you get lucky, his time will come.

Today's Results- $110 in 4 hrs

I played a couple hands too passively and let people catch up that got me stuck 200. I made a bad fold with an over pair when one the tightest guys led the flop for pot. I did win a big pot to get back in the green in this hand-

I've got 99 in ep staddled 1/2 game, I open for 15 and get 2 calls from lp and the blinds come along. 200 effective stacks.

Flop- 1096
I bet 50 into 71, folds to sb who minraises me to 100, bb calls. I decide there isn't much reason to reraise so I call getting odds to boat up

Turn- 5
sb bets 100 into 371, bb folds I call with my last 85 still getting the right price.

River-4
I show, he sighs and shows 66

I know I haven't accomplished much by most standards, but I have progressed a lot personally. 2 years ago I was unemployed, had less than $100 to my name and was grinding playchips. 1 year ago I was grinding 10nl on FTP. Now after a lot of shots at 2/4 I have finally got some traction recently.

I know I am underrolled right now so I can't be extremely confident in that regard. I am confident in the fact that I am playing better than I have in the past and I see myself constantly improving.

I have to agree with dem88boyz in that I should be looking at my life + poker from a business perspective. Since I have been playing for a living, my liferoll has not grow at a very fast pace. If I am mearly breaking even my ROR in 100%. Common advice I have read on 2+2 is that I should have at least 6 months living expenses + a separate poker bankroll. So for me to be comfortably rolled for nl games up to 3/5 I should have about 20k. Obviously I am not there but I am working towards it. That is why I really need to be putting in 160 hr months, those extra 40 or so hrs of winnings would all go towards building my liferoll.

I am glad you brought it up, it highlights that winning at the tables is only half the equation, monitoring expenses is the other half of the game. Money saved is the same as money earned.

March

Total hours played- 90
Average hourly winrate- $23
Winnings- $2077

2012 YTD

Total hours played- 331
Average hourly winrate- $17
Winnings- $5539

If you read what i wrote which it does NOT APPEAR you did i said ater he pays his bills hes a break even player- this statement is true. He's making a profit I agree barely but he is and supporting himself i agree as well. Normally someone tries to build a BR when grinding poker espically if they plan on moving to Vegas. I will keep on saying this I respect OP he's playing great and making a prtofit every month but just 1 month can turn OP from a grinder into having no BR.

Good Luck, I have been playing 1/2 NL full time for over 6 months and have done extremely well, i have plans to move up to 2/5 and 5/10 live very soon, I now have the bankroll to accommodate so life shall be good from here out.. Good luck at the tables Gents.

your an optimistic- I'm a realist its possible he can make 10k playing 2-5 in a week its also possible he can lose his BR in a week playing 2-5.

It appears some of you reading OP thread is the same people who read the degen thread and when people say they lost 10-15k degen ways you have people comment and say If i was you take 10k and play 1 hand of BJ or keep gambling your time will come. People are giving OP horrible advice, OP as long as you weigh out all your options and know different scenarios can occur when grinding poker your ahead of the game. I seen the sickest grinds from the worse bad beats its a roller coaster. Some people only weigh out the positives and never forget that it can turn down hill quick.

I think OP's outlook on his play is very realistic and that his play is consistent enough that I believe he will succeed long term in the game. If you are treating poker as a career your path to success will have the same arc as other careers to its higher levels. You need to get your education on how to play and manage the grinder lifestyle. Secondly, you need to work your way up through the limits just like you do from an entry level job. Reaching 2/5 or 5/10 NL is the same as reaching a management type job with similar monies. If you're making 50-100k playing poker that is the same as an average middle corporate manager.

I credit OP for realizing the steps he needs to get to higher limits and money and learning a grinder lifestyle at 1/2. His playing 2/4 shows he is trying to move up but not doing it stupidly. Keep up the grind, put in 20% more hours each month and keep focused on a long term goal and you'll reach it.

--Dizzle

you make me want to quit my low wage job right now after reading this. i planned to wait until i had 8k originally then after doing some ROR calculations i realize that 5k with my low expenses would be sufficient.
i currently have 3.8k and i just can't wait to start playing full-time.

even at 2/5 $75k/year should be doable from what i have read. do what you can to lower your expense's until you can comfortably move up imo.

i read exactly what you wrote and we just disagree on what 'breakeven' means.

perhaps you should learn to spell better, though. i will never understand how people whose english is so poor can possibly be intelligent enough to be a winning poker player.

i'm done with this argument and moving on. good luck to you.

OMg so i dont chk my spelling before i send it does that really make me an unintelligent and losing poker player?? Did you re read what you wrote you make no sense.. BTW you dont need to be intelligent to be a winning poker player... how can people disagree on break even? Every month OP is breaking even after bills... some people dont understand certain terminology

I hope that ibelieveinkolb is not talking about kevin kolb because that will be embarassing... If that is you user name for Kevin Kolb now whose the unintelligent one?? PWNED!!!

Wtf is going in this thread? Stop the derailing please. OP is doing fine for the conservative standards he has for himself. He's getting better results every month, and after a few more successful cracks at some bigger games, he will be in Vegas in no time. And if not successful, he'll keep grinding his bread and butter.

^^ this seriously its ops life and his choices, stop derailing.

Anyway great thread so far pure, nice stead pace gl at the tables

exactly. why the hell do people always need to find something to annoy others about without having been asked? get your lifes in order and gtfo ffs!!

if OP is happy with the pace he is going at then its perfectly fine and if not he most certainly is smart enough to figure that this is nothing for him longterm



gl pure, hope vegas will be the place to look for u starting this summer!

dude, wtf are u doing not getting it in on T96ddd with 99 in a raised pot

Ship Ship Ship

Today's Results- -$80 in 3.5 hrs

I played at the Berkeley home game .25/.50 unlimited straddle. I didn't have much to work with, did flop mid set and got x5 pot overbet shipped into by tp, but they runner runnered a better fh.

There are a few more thoughts I had on the bankroll subject. Over the last 10 months, my average monthly expenses have been $1148, average monthly win is $1366. My liferoll grew by an average of $218 a month. I have a target in mind of adding 33% of my winnings to my liferoll. But over these 10 months I have only been able to add an average of 16% per month. So I need to cut back on some of the nonessential expenses and play more hrs to have a better chance of hitting this target. I am going to really push these last couple of months before I move out to Vegas for the summer.

I also forgot to mention, even though it might be apparent from the hands I've posted that I play a very low variance nitty style. I also have been following the 5% buy in, 10% cash out rule pretty closely with exceptions depending on which villains have a big stack. I think these things reduce my ROR and slightly lower my bankroll requirements compared to other typical winning players.

http://evplusplus.com This site has some cool tools I have played around with to model variance and ROR.

I realize my situation is not ideal and there is some risk of going busto even if I play excellent poker. I find the risk acceptable and I do have other things I can pursue if poker is no longer a reliable source of income.

When I got c/r I pretty much gave him credit for the flopped flush or at least a straight but I obviously didn't spend much time considering folding with the pot bloated already. I don't think there is too much difference between calling here and raising. I guess 3betting the flop would make sense if I think he is doing it with Ax or like jacks with a .

March

Total hours played- 93.5
Average hourly winrate- $21
Winnings- $1997

2012 YTD

Total hours played- 333.5
Average hourly winrate- $17
Winnings- $5459

I think you played the 99 hand well.

Today's Results- $224 in 2 hrs

I played a short session today. The only significant hand I played I made a questionable call with jacks on a scary turn. I rivered a set and c/c another small bet and took it down he said he had slowplayed aces.

March

Total hours played- 95.5
Average hourly winrate- $23
Winnings- $2221

2012 YTD

Total hours played- 335.5
Average hourly winrate- $17
Winnings- $5683

Today's Results- -$30 in 6 hrs

I got to practice an important nlhe skill today... check/folding the flop.

March

Total hours played- 101.5
Average hourly winrate- $22
Winnings- $2191

2012 YTD

Total hours played- 341.5
Average hourly winrate- $17
Winnings- $5653