It's basic common sense that T6o is never a defend unless you are like 250 BBs deep and have a sizeable post flop playing edge.

You're check folding on so many flops it's just setting money on fire and when you flop a piece you're often in a win a small pot or lose a big pot territory.

Not sure what the blinds were, feels like ~500/1000/100, so you are 60BBs deep on a 2 hour clock and surely there are way better pre flop spots.

Defending wasn't a good play and then to compensate for this you had to start getting creative which then caused a complex, potentially high variance situation for yourself.

Are you sure you've used piosolver before...pio almost never ever donk oop on the turn if you don't x/r flop..are you sure that youve been inputting accurate ranges and inputting different Raising percentages?...what stakes do you play man? I know that this sounds really condescending but I'm not trying to, if you're playing and is stuck in a lower stake maybe you stop being so stubborn and maybe listen a little more..and if you really disagree with something that was said instead of saying 'I'm right and you're wrong' (this is an example I know you didn't write that) you should question yourself and ask why or how did he come up with that solution...

Back to the T6 hand what about a small overbet Gary? Still polarized but also seems a bit more valuey to me if I was villain..Also you don't have to risk your entire stack in a 26k pot with like 50 behind...

I've never read a book on NLHE, I've never looked at PIO solver and I don't even play NLHE any more, but this hand is pretty straight forward.

T6o is a bad defend. If we're trying to outplay/bully our opponents then maybe 3 bet it and if flatted C bet almost any board. On a high board you have a range advantage of sorts and on a lowish/mid board your actual hand is disguised. But in the ME just let this garbage hand go pre flop. Flatting or 3 betting is just punting.

Raine Kempe was surely humouring you if he was including your pre flop play in his praise. You know poker players have occasionally been known to be dishonest.

Then as played, on the flop one of the best players in the world checks back the flop to protect his equity as the board hits your defending (random type hand) range a lot of the time.

His hand improves on the turn and now you decide to c/r him. He flats, you miss, and nobody, not God, PIO solver or the ghost of Stu Ungar can agree on what sizing you should lead or if in fact you should just give up.

As I mentioned previously, if you both start the hand much deeper then well you can defend any garbage hand you like as you have a lot more wiggle room to rep/bully/pressurise, and if you get it wrong and run into a slow played set or something and have led 1.5x pot on the river for example, then if you've started 250BBs deep you might have lost 1/4 of your stack, not 85% of it.

I've studied pio and hrc(like it's even necessary here) T6o is def not a defend. Though just thinking out the pros and cons you can just come to the same conclusion without any fancy software. it's a trash hand with a lot of rio and not much playability. You will be playing the hand oop and a good player will just own you all day.

Also you can be tempted into doing unnecessary punts, like what happened in the hand.

The ME is one of the longest and best structured tourneys. There are plenty of good spots you can take where people are giving it away. Not necessary to put yourself in marginal spots like that if you are a good player. Especially if you're going to make people pay 1.4 to basically freeroll you in a 10k. it's a free market and people make their own decisions so that's just whatever. just my opinion.

Bananasplit is way more right on this one Gazzy..

We should mostly mix between overbet and check w/strong hands (occasionally small bet) and therefore we should be even more careful with our turn c/r bluffing range given our valuerange got even narrower.

And if you decide to do something other than c/f w/T6o on the turn it should be heavily weighted towards having FD blocker.

And the river is mostly shove or check spot.

Loving the live hhs, but maybe you should really try and pay more attention when you're in a hand, because this is like the 4th or 5th time in those updates where you misread action and this one is much bigger than just missing a UTG limp or sth; this could've gone wrong in a pretty big way if you guys were deep (the coldcaller and you)!

This is terrible advice, as usual. 106 (and basically any hand) against a min raise with antes is an easy defend.

No it's not, because although it is "cheap" for us to call based on a simplistic way of looking at it, of how much equity do we need against his range to justify the pot odds we are getting, the reality is that with this filth, OOP and not super deep, we are going to have the devil's own job in realising our equity and in the process of trying to realise it we often will be at risk of reverse implied odds, e.g. flopping trips with a bad kicker.

All the while we are damaging some of our stack's future exponential growth and therefore our business end of the comp ICM by wasting a blind. (and possibly additional blinds by messing about with unnecessary fancy post flop plays)

Effective stack sizes, playing skill of our opponent, and playing skill of the average of the rest of the field have to be factors whether we can defend with T6o, and all 3 point towards not defending in this spot.

Maybe you or others ITT could give your reasoning as to why you think it is a defend.

Trips with bad kicker is such a bad hand in Button vs Blind situations, agree

pls stop saying that T6o is fold pre. very standard defend with ante

I dont think it does, it depend vs which position u play what stack depth and opponent.

Imo 6To shld be a fold most of the time cus eq realization

i'm talking about the hand played,i know it isnt profitable defend vs utg 12% open and that. it's hand vs reiner kempe btn and he's probably opening more than 60% on wsop main and yes we're deep enough

A is indeed a better card for villain than for us but our range is still stronger overall in the T6o hand given kempe checked behind flop hence why when we lead we should overbet, and mix in a little bit of check raises with stronger part of our range, could possibly just check raise with straight and oesd+fd hands, overbeat lead naked flush draws, OESDs, sets and 2 pairs

preflop is fine defend vs small sizing fwiw, unless you are not particularly good like sagedonkey then you may just want to be tighter than optimal pre to avoid tougher spots post

How about you include antes in your pio sims? In gto, t6o is a clear defend vs btn range.

Agree with xenoblade, and once again it shows why having sagedonkey on ignore is a good decision. I really dislike the river sizing though

Fwiw not that it really matters but I dont think rainer would have folded to a jam either. His hand is simply way too strong.

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also lmao people talking about T6o like its 92o or some****, T6 is the best hand u get in the BB playing live for like 10 hours

super ez defend tf

Sage, you even start off your post by saying you don't play nlhe anymore and have never looked at any of the current tools. I also don't know for sure what your playing history in nlhe is but I'm assuming you have at best had some mild success at low stakes live nl? Don't you think maybe you should be more open to what better players with better results in tougher games have to say? 106o is an easy defend in this scenario with antes and you aren't doing yourself any favors with your analysis of the situation.

Guys, the pf defend is the least interesting part of the hand really.

amen

Wrt to the t6o are you trying to fold out AX one pair or 2pr? Will villain fold 2pr to any size? Does he bet fold most of his 1pr to the turn xr?

Pio analysis is fine and dandy, but many, including myself, will just overfold turn to mostly call river esp against a young euro kid who is assumed will not be xr giving up. That said, a bet/called 2pr really shrivels up on the river if you bet 1.5x pot+ sizing even if you're assumed to be overbluffing the spot.

Tldr think river size as played only folds out 1pr which probably mostly folds the turn

Stay a week dudee, f the t6

2 pairs shouldn't fold river regardless at least not from a theoretical standpoint, so I'd be surprised if Kempe folded even to an overbet, I think we're trying to fold out Ax or worse and I think overbetting turn and overbetting river does a better job of that than check raising turn and betting sort of normal river

Fwiw I ran the hand real quick without node locking things. pio wants to lead turn **** huge (somewhere between 2x and 3x pot) and does not x/r your combo always vs his sizing, plus it also favours using different hands as a bluff on the river, more towards the lower region of your bluffing range with hands like 53s 52s 63s etc at a much higher freq than our t6o (mostly in a overbet/jam scenario tho)

Edit: It leads +- 20% of our range on turn, so leading is def a thing there. It’s a spot I check very often as well (I think its particularly good vs meh opponents btw) so was interested in it myself and decided to quickly run it.

I honestly think it's the kind of spot you don't want to really play GTO though in the main event, so so so many soft spots and it's a 1x/year event so you kind of want to keep it low variance, so yeah in the main I may have just overbet turn and gave up river