Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Poker Goals & Challenges Post your threads logging your travels up the poker ladder as you achieve your poker goals and dreams. "Challenges" does NOT mean prop bets, wagers, etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2018, 10:11 PM   #251
Re8uZ
adept
 
Re8uZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,040
Re: The Final Frontier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin_Piddle View Post
Another great post

I would like to see a piece on shorthanded play on Final Tables. I made a final table on the weekend, vs 3 manic eastern euros and got destroyed. Couldn't make a hand or a pair and they were calling my bluffs down with 4th/5th pair to the board on dangerous boards. Other then blind down and shove super light what can u do vs these particular opponents.
dont bluff obv(or use bigger sizings to put presure on theirs 4/5 pairs), value bet thin
Re8uZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 01:04 AM   #252
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,537
Re: The Final Frontier

Hey guys, pretty frustrated but finally booked a winning session. Final tabled BB 55 with a bunch of whales and they just push the variance so much that if you're not getting cards or w/e it's very difficult to play against. ie like they 3x pre off 30bb stack sizes, never fold to 3 bets, etc etc.Then i had a bunch of other deeps but lost a lot of important all ins. Oh well, felt wayyyy better today and cut out all the distractions and BS. I think getting an intense workout in the morning helped a lot to keep me calm.

@colin: It's sort of a broad question and obviously there's a lot of strategical adjustments we could make. A lot of it depends on stack sizes/payouts etc. To give a few pointers:

-Keep pre flop ranges very solid especially when you are from earlier positions where loose/stationy players have position on you. Essentially, if there's a high purpensity they will flat you when you are OOP, it would be wise to have hands that are good for barreling/ check calling etc...so maybe T9ss or KJo would be a better open than A8o or Q8ss.
-If they have a high likelihood of 3 betting you or are over-3 betting, tighten pre flop range...include traps when calling 3 bets, and 4 bet lighter.
-There are certain board textures where sometimes I have a spidey sense based on timing tells or w/e that a villain won't want to fold. In those cases I go thinner for value and just don't bluff with a high frequency.
-Delay c bets against stations and take more creative bluff lines


Overall, just work on your game as much as possible and think logically about how to respond to certain player types or table dynamics and manipulate them in your favour. It's easy to get caught up in emotional battles when a player keeps getting the best of you it seems when you're deep in a tournament. Don't give into your "monkey brain" urges and just focus on employing a good exploitative strategy.
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2018, 12:45 AM   #253
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,537
Re: The Final Frontier

tried playing only around 4-6 tables all day today and enjoyed it much more+found myself much less stressed. ran aids in a couple massive pots in 530 coop+1k coop which basically made the difference between a nice winning day and a losing day. still finding this run to be absurd but i guess it's better not to worry about it.

here's a hand that's really bothering me from just now. the villain is "prebz":

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...615_4464C17E26

We were approx. 20 off ITM and I just moved to this table. I'm really not sure whether betting flop or not is best here but I think checking weaker Ax is better. I'll let you guys duke it out but I'll quickly sum my thoughts: my bluff is very good theoretically, but if the villain can't even find a fold with this hand it is lol bad.
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2018, 03:15 AM   #254
nomalice
old hand
 
nomalice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,421
Re: The Final Frontier

Quote:
Originally Posted by WALMARTcnxn View Post

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...615_4464C17E26

We were approx. 20 off ITM and I just moved to this table. I'm really not sure whether betting flop or not is best here but I think checking weaker Ax is better. I'll let you guys duke it out but I'll quickly sum my thoughts: my bluff is very good theoretically, but if the villain can't even find a fold with this hand it is lol bad.
disclaimer: 1k hand might be little over my head.
i construct my checking range otf same way as you do ( pbb checking that AT also ) but i'm not delighted with our overall play here. villains range is pretty narrow and i dont think we have enough of the stack otr to x/raise and fold out any 2p sincerely, he is getting 5:1 or smt like that and he needs just to find us 1 or 2 bluffs and his call is snap printin. on the other hand we dont have JT in our range, we dont have QQ(or have like 1 combo since i think we would fold QxQc ott for sure as it blocks his fd bluffs), we most likely dont have AK/AQ... conclusion is that this too thin of an raise otr overall with this spr.

Spoiler:
nomalice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2018, 04:53 PM   #255
Re8uZ
adept
 
Re8uZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,040
Re: The Final Frontier

Quote:
Originally Posted by WALMARTcnxn View Post
tried playing only around 4-6 tables all day today and enjoyed it much more+found myself much less stressed. ran aids in a couple massive pots in 530 coop+1k coop which basically made the difference between a nice winning day and a losing day. still finding this run to be absurd but i guess it's better not to worry about it.

here's a hand that's really bothering me from just now. the villain is "prebz":

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...615_4464C17E26

We were approx. 20 off ITM and I just moved to this table. I'm really not sure whether betting flop or not is best here but I think checking weaker Ax is better. I'll let you guys duke it out but I'll quickly sum my thoughts: my bluff is very good theoretically, but if the villain can't even find a fold with this hand it is lol bad.
what is your x/r value on river?
what are you trying him to fold (u know that he can have 99 and some AA/KK/AK/AQ) ?

imo given stack sizes, line etc u dont have enough FEQ on river (and imo enough value hands) and you are just lvleling your self and fancy playing it imo

Last edited by Re8uZ; 09-14-2018 at 04:54 PM. Reason: x/r turn to ~200k looks sexy imo to me with those stack sizes if you feel you "need/must" bluff that combo
Re8uZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2018, 05:31 PM   #256
Colin_Piddle
The Colonial
 
Colin_Piddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: AlwaysFolding is my gimmick
Posts: 7,702
Re: The Final Frontier

Thanks Walmart and Re8uz. Next time I'll get them
Colin_Piddle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 05:49 PM   #257
trent32la
old hand
 
trent32la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Check my Bio!
Posts: 1,400
Re: The Final Frontier

AT hand is a punt on the river, it's a call or fold spot, jamming makes no sense against such a polarized range when our only value hands are AA and KK, and if villain holds an ace, that leaves you with just 4 value combinations.

Jamming doesn't really fold out a lot of hands in this spot that we beat, because villain either has a hand like 87cc, or he has 22/99/AQ with AJ and AA at low frequencies.

Also, this thinking is theoretically bad, but in a $1k buyin the mincash will be much higher relative to your bankroll, so protecting your stack 20 off ITM makes sense.
trent32la is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 09:48 PM   #258
LittleGoliath
Pooh-Bah
 
LittleGoliath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,805
Re: The Final Frontier

I think the main problem with bluffing this hand/spot is that you just don’t have enough behind bc you rep very few combos you want to use a (very) large sizing usually and that’s not really possible here
LittleGoliath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2018, 11:09 PM   #259
Rapidesh123
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Rapidesh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Showing who's the boss
Posts: 6,672
Re: The Final Frontier

I can understand the x/r and why you did it, you probably fold his hand if you're villain, right? Few people bluff in that spot, specially with the mtt stuff going on/you are risking your tournament life.

But people don't do what they are supposed to do, 95% of people will think "I haz 2-pair" and "it's so small" rather than "villain is never bluffing or valuebetting worse".

A few tips on x/r the river, the best spots to do it are those:

1- villain has a lot of thin valuebets in his range
2- villain has few nutted hands in % of his range
3- villain has bluffs in his range
4- you can represent a hand
5- neutral/bad runnouts for villain(never bluff in good runnouts for his range)
6- use a sick sizing(math on x/r goes poorly when it comes to money you invest/villains odds up until you are 3xing the bet, specially between the min-raise to 3x area).
7- 2x pot river raise is the magical number if you want people to fold very big hands. But it should be rare to be that deep on mtts.

Gl, man!
Vaaaaamooooo
Rapidesh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 04:04 AM   #260
nomalice
old hand
 
nomalice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,421
Re: The Final Frontier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidesh123 View Post

But people don't do what they are supposed to do, 95% of people will think "I haz 2-pair" and "it's so small" rather than "villain is never bluffing or valuebetting worse".
Aight, villain is never bluffing.
nomalice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 08:10 AM   #261
Rapidesh123
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Rapidesh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Showing who's the boss
Posts: 6,672
Re: The Final Frontier

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomalice View Post
Aight, villain is never bluffing.
I think you misunderstood what I said, villain has bluffs in his range, while walmart's raise is very value-heavy if population is raising the river. What was the last time you've seen someone bluff with walmart's line?

I've looked at more than 200 river raises I called in my last 450k hands and found out only 3 bluffs across 50z-200z, all the other raises were valuebets, and 2 of those bluffs were made by the same reg, the other was a whale.
Rapidesh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2018, 02:46 AM   #262
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,537
Re: The Final Frontier

hey guys, looks like that hand generated a lot of discussion! i read through all of your comments and appreciate the insights.

@re8...my value range is AA and KK.

I thought a lot about the hand and asked a few people about it. I'll just write what I was thinking in game and what my analysis of it has been since:

In game I was thinking a trap with AA is much more likely than KK from population, and blocking top set is quite relevant here. Obviously, most of his range is not traps and it's hands like suited broadways/suited Ax (although i think A9ss is quite a loose peel with good regs behind). By the river I felt his 2 most likely holdings are AQ and 99/ with some JT liekly of clubs (for value), and his most likely bluffs are QT and QJ, often of clubs.

In general, a lot of players don't bluff river with QT or QJ type holdings here because they think they have sd value or something...tbh good regs probably usually do barrel them off because they're aware when they're bottom range. That being said, when I call twice my range is quite strong imo and people aren't bluffing into super strong ranges that much. Honestly, in game I felt like he's a good reg and is mostly value betting here, he probably notices I'm a 30$ ABI reg 20 off ITM with so little fold equity behind...it's a spot I'm NEVER bluffing, and always AA/KK, so, I figured I could produce some hero folds. It is quite gross that I don't have many chips behind and thus not much fold equity. In theory if I'm never bluffing he can fold 99, but he's just not, nor is anyone. I did think he could fold some better hands though, I guess I was wrong.

There's these spots where I pat myself on the back for actually having a few bluff combos where almost no regs do, and when I get spite called I just tell myself "nice to know my entire value range gets paid". BUT I need to stop bluffing when people won't fold...no matter how good a bluff is theoretically, it sucks if people aren't folding the hands they're supposed to!

So yeah, on the river if we're gonna bluff (we only need literally like 1 combo prob if we're talking about being balanced etc), because AA/KK are the only hands I can have for value, and not much chips behind. ATdd seemed like a good candidate because it blocks his traps/value hands, does not block the broadways club blufs he could have.

That being said, all the theory stuff is pretty overrated in tourneys imo and we need to be aware of it, but produce lines that make the most $ in game and exploit the inefficiences of the population. I think guys lose a lot of EV in hands trying to play balanced or how piosolver would tell them to play (in general, not always). That was a big rant.
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2018, 03:28 AM   #263
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,537
Re: The Final Frontier

Sup my d00ds? Hope WCOOP was better for you guys than it was for me! If I had a $ for every massive flip/cooler/suckout I've had in the last 6 months in the final 18 of tourneys, I would haev enough money to buy out Amaya.

However, on a much more positive note, the Sklansky $ are piling up to the ceiling. I've made enough theoretical money in the last 6 months that I am swimming in it.

Not gonna sit here and whine because I ran way above EV shipping a WCOOP event b2b years, but this year it was ****ED. Feels like I didn't win one relevant pot and was beginning to question whether the RNG was rigged. I ended up winning the hot 16.50 tonight which was quite a nice feeling. I'm quite happy that WCOOP is done and now I can get back to my low-variance grind and recouperating some of the losses! Here's a fun hand:

https://www.boomplayer.com/28808538_A20EFC02CB
I had some very specific player reads here that led me to do this. Playing less tables and just trying to put the creative/exploitative approach back into my game has worked wonders for my mindset and hopefully my longterm ROI. This could be seen as a huge punt, but look how top heavy these tourneys are nowadays, ICM means so much less and when first place is 2x 2nd, playing ftw is GTO.

--------------------------------------------------------

Now that WCOOP is done, and it's time to take some time off poker, well except for this Thursday probably. I want to take my mind off poker. What better way to spew about some random **** in this thread?

-------------------------------------------------------

A lot of the time I spend my time wondering about the future. How will things look for future generations? What will the world be like in 20 years? If you look at how the world was in the early 2000's when I was a young kid it has changed DRASTICALLY. Everything from the time people spend at computers, the jobs, compters in general, the climate, sooo much hass changed. Just for fun, I'll talk about a few predictions I have for the future...maybe you guys can agree or disagree/suggest someof your own:



1. Government adopted digital currencies will be initiated. As the world becomes more digitized I think governments will prevent private companies from creating the currency. In other words, governments will introduce their own cryptocurrencies that are regulated/controlled by them.

2. A big recession looms. The past 8 or so years have been booming and prosperous in North America. This is one of the longest expansion economies ever. I could be totally wrong on this one, and I don't have very many reasons as to why I think that lol.

3. Robots will steal jobs. Instead of paying workers, companies would rather just have a machine that can work 24/7 under 0 labour laws. You don't have to worry about it filing an overtime claim, or slapping a co-worker in the ass and having to fire it. The government will have to come up with an alternative solution to support all the unemployed people. Corporations will need to be taxed heavily, and possibly a fixed income system will be implemented.

4. Amazon will take over retail. This company is sickly well positioned to do this. People want convenience, price, and selection. Amazon can do this better than almost any other company atm and has the means of scale and growth. In general, I think a few corporations will just take over every sector.

5. There will be a revolution in North American food/health industry. People have only been eating this new type of "SAD-Standard American Diet" for the past few decades and we still aren't aware of all the long term effects of this diet. (processed foods, many preservatives, sugars, artificial enhancers, high sugar/carb/unhealthy fat/fried etc). The amount of sick people will sky rocket and all of the health care won't be afforded. A revolution might occur to teach people the importance of eating healthy, and HOW to do it.

6. The Toronto Maple Leafs will win a Stanley Cup in the next 3 seasons. This team went from perpetual mediocrity and basement dwelling to being a serious contender/favourite in just a matter of years. The way management has built/grown this team will become a model for future sports teams.

7. Many regs will be forced out of online poker, and the games will become more withered than they already are. Less rakeback, more rake, in a tougher game, less fish wanting to play is a recipe for disaster. A tonne of breakeven, slightly losing/winning regs will be KO'd from poker. Many will pursue live poker, or move onto other avenues.

8. A big shift in the politically correct movement will occur. It's a weird time in society where people from majorities are so afraid to say/do anything. Minority groups/repressed groups are now almost expecting over-compensation for past decades. I think as time grows people will just more accept each-others differences and learn to work together, and not always feel like they're walking on egg shells.

9. It will take a very long time, and many angry people, but guns will get banned in the USA. This is the obvious solution. I mean, mass shootings do not occur at anywhere NEAR the frequency they do in the USA. Look at a country such as Australia, how the murder rate declined after banning firearms. There's something messed up with the American mindset that these disasters happen. It's also messed up that people capable of these atrocities are able to get their hands on semi automatic weapons in the first place. Nightclub shootings could be stopped if citizens were armed? How about having a bunch of drunk people with hand guns in night clubs? What will that do for your murder rate? How are these untrained people going to defend themselves in the most stressful situation of their lives, with a handgun against an assault rifle?

America should (IMO) ban guns and get better at identifying/helping troubled individuals

=========================

Some of that stuff might come true, some of it might not. That's just the random thoughts I bring to you here @ 3:28 AM. Time for a day and weekend off starting tomorow Much love
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2018, 03:00 PM   #264
Rapidesh123
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Rapidesh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Showing who's the boss
Posts: 6,672
Re: The Final Frontier

You have 6 value combos in there, unless you made a sick RNG (like <10% =bluff), there's no way to say you're balanced in there. If you use all tour AT combos you will be overbluffing. So there isn't such a thing like "yeah, I'm balanced in there, villain will get owned when I have value" in those very rare spots it's very hard to be balanced unless you use RNG or some sick combo calculations/strat. Just never bluff there, the only reason we bluff otr in those spots is to deny villain the option of hero folding, if vlain doesn't consider that option, we shouldn't consider bluffing and since villain is underbluffing, our only option is folding.
Rapidesh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2018, 02:05 AM   #265
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,537
Re: The Final Frontier

@rapidesh: I never said I'm using all my Tx combos every single time. Quite frankly I'm seldom bluffing this spot, even if I do have the best hands to turn into a bluff. I just said Tx with club is probably the best hands to do it with if we are going to bluff. I agree he's underbluffing and agree we should probably just nit fold, as we have a lot of better hands to call. ty for ur thoughts sir
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2018, 02:30 AM   #266
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,537
Re: The Final Frontier

Sup y'all? I really should be going to bed right now because I need to be up early and have to be somewhat awake. Every now and again I get really "down in the dumps" or need to get some stuff off my chest...and that brings me here.

Today was a pretty good day online. I seemed to be running deep EVERYWHERE, but literally got so fkn unlucky in every run and only ended up like +2k on the day or something along those lines. Anyways, I've been really happy with my play lately and in these tough times is where we grow the most. I feel if maybe 5-10 all ins went differently in the last 3 months this would be a 50k upswing at least. Anyways, if it was easy...everyone would do it!

The part where this story gets a little bit depressing is I got invited to a local home game that I play in occasionally. My sports bet on the Jets +3 was looking like a lock, and I didn't have much else better to do so I thought "**** it let's be social and make some EV".

I quickly got stacked as there was a ridiculous pot multi ways I flopped open-ender and got it in against an over pair and bricked. I was mildly tilted at this point and didn't really feel like playing so I rebought anyways.

The next bullet is where I got super upset with myself. There's a rule where each time the button passes you, you put 5$ on it...and if you win the pot when you have the button you also win the amount on the button. This adds some interesting dynamics/incentives.

I was in the cutoff with 89o and opened to 10$, there was about 40$ on the button...he obviously calls, as did big blind. The big blind is an ATC type player, as was the button when he had the BTN incentive. FLOP: KQJhhx...i normally shut down here but I felt ranges of the other 2 players were extremely wide and BTN would 3 bet anything decent, so i c bet 20$...BTN quickly called. The turn was Tx, I checked, and he quickly moved all in. In general I have a very easy snap fold here, when he like 2x pot jams we can just call our Ax and maybe like flush draw+low end or something. Like a true idiot I leveled myself into a call and he tables A7o for the nut straight. I felt so stupid and disappointed in myself for donating 100bbs to this guy who is never bluffing. The way he snap moved in, adn just the fact he probably is never bluffing makes me feel super gross about calling.

So I kinda sat there for a second and told the dealer to deal me out. Was almost just shocked at how bad I played the hand/how bad he played it and I still paid him off. I started biting my tongue because I really wanted to berate the player and tell him why and how stupid his line was. Then I realized the reason I wanted to do this because it would help make me feel better about myself or help me justify to myself my play.

He won the pot, I lost the pot, I made a massive mistake. I'm sick and tired of making massive mistakes and the poor mindset that led me to the call costed me the pot. It wasn't anybody else's fault other than mine. So I gave my head a shake and told everyone "have a good night" and fist bumped the guy who stacked me on the way out and told him "nice hand".

Maybe I was tilted because the Jets blew the game, or because I was locked in a room grinding WCOOP and losing every day for 2 weeks, or because everything seems to be going wrong in poker lately (oh yeah I won the hot 16.50 yesterday like a boss ), just a combination of everything really.

Anyways, I also found myself getting in the chat recently at the tables and maybe poking fun at other players or chirping them...I didn't have any issue with this for several months now but have wandered back to my old ways. It's not acceptable and I need to be better.

-------------------------------------

The funny thing is that we all battle so hard and concern ourselves with the game of poker and money...but it's only a game, and it's only money. It's so easy to forget about that or get caught up in the emotional storms that the game can bring. When it's all said and done the money or getting stacked by fish @ 1/2 home games does not mean squat. You can't bring money to the grave. I don't care about being remembered as a rich guy but I do care about being remembered as a good sport, good winner/good loser, and a kind person.

Here's my commitment going forward to focus on treating opponents with respect and trying to have fun with them, even if I'm in for my 7th bullet and in the worst mood of my life.

Sorry for that massive rant of negativity guys but I needed to spew it off my chest. I'm SO RELIEVED that I have this weekend off. Heading up to my cottage with my buddy I haven't spent much time with lately to do a bunch of fishing. I need this more than anything in the world right now. Thanks for reading and GL!
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2018, 09:11 AM   #267
Rapidesh123
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Rapidesh123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Showing who's the boss
Posts: 6,672
Re: The Final Frontier

Cool AT hand, you could lead overbet river too! Villain is probably folding 2p vs your 3-bet.
Rapidesh123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 12:00 AM   #268
WALMARTcnxn
old hand
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ravaging Post Flop
Posts: 1,537
Re: The Final Frontier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapidesh123 View Post
Cool AT hand, you could lead overbet river too! Villain is probably folding 2p vs your 3-bet.
agree...unless he is from brazil/argentina/malta jk haha
WALMARTcnxn is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online