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Old 08-23-2012, 08:03 AM   #51
tmckendry
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Played a 3.5hour PLO session, won $212.

Been playing some short sessions online. Realized a major leak in my game. flop cbet % is 73%, turn cbet is 42%. This can be exploited by pealing the flop light/floating, which is exactly what these micro fish are doing. I'm essentially allowing them to play perfectly against me by checking back the turn. Going to try and close the cbet% gap closer to less than 20% over next 10k hands.

Oh, the month is looking good for PLO5/10;


Last edited by tmckendry; 08-23-2012 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:22 PM   #52
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

In loose plo games, don't c-bet air in multiway pots. Ever.
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:25 PM   #53
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Quote:
Originally Posted by olavfo View Post
In loose plo games, don't c-bet air in multiway pots. Ever.
Agree, 100%.

My leak is a bit different. I have a villain that will call the flop with any piece, and fold most turns unimproved. I will cbet flop, and check back turns where I don't improve and/or a scare card comes. Considering villain peels really light, I should be betting a very high % of turns, and an even higher % of scare cards.

All that said, flop cbet % of 70%+ is probably a bit too high for PLO5/10 (most flops are multiway :\)
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Old 08-24-2012, 01:04 AM   #54
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Okay, vegas trip is over. Got 8-9 nights in Vegas, played 95% PLO, 5% NLH.

Played 63 hours, profited $1407.00. $22.33/hr, ran above all-in EV. Made a couple stupid cbets, PFR raises, and 1 or 2 marginal (1-3% -EV) folds. Played a massive $2400 pot where I got it in way ahead, but easily could have killed my profit.

In airport awaiting long haul back to Ottawa.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:07 AM   #55
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckendry View Post
Agree, 100%.

My leak is a bit different. I have a villain that will call the flop with any piece, and fold most turns unimproved. I will cbet flop, and check back turns where I don't improve and/or a scare card comes. Considering villain peels really light, I should be betting a very high % of turns, and an even higher % of scare cards.

All that said, flop cbet % of 70%+ is probably a bit too high for PLO5/10 (most flops are multiway :\)
Yup, that's a good exploitive adjustment against those light flop-peels. Against tough opponents who float and also play turns well, c-bet less and get to the turn with a stronger range.

Also, in position, don't semibluff every draw. Check back some weak'ish hands that are very strong on some turns. Like naked nut flushdraws/open-enders with nothing else. Makes it hard for Villain to bluff any turn after you check back the flop.

Balancing this way will become more important as you move up, but worth thinking about already. You've probably met plenty of auto-stab guys at the micros.
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Old 08-24-2012, 02:20 PM   #56
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckendry View Post
My leak is a bit different. I have a villain that will call the flop with any piece, and fold most turns unimproved. I will cbet flop, and check back turns where I don't improve and/or a scare card comes. Considering villain peels really light, I should be betting a very high % of turns, and an even higher % of scare cards.
Not sure if this question is super-basic (feel free to pass if it is either and I will copy paste this somewhere else on 2+2), what kind of boards do you consider good double barrel? For some specific examples:

1. 865
Are you more likely to double barrel on what turns? a blank? a 9? paired board? flush completes? Same questions if it's rainbow instead too.

2. K83
Same questions as above (blank turns, flush completing turns, board pairing turns, aces!?), also any difference if flop is rainbow?

3. QT6
The most common category of flop textures obv where the nuts can easily change. Best to double barrel on: blanks, draw completing cards, board pairing cards, flush completing cards?

4. Any other significant textures I missed? Are A-high boards (or just higher boards in general??) significantly different? perhaps AJ9 vs example #3, or A95 vs example #2, or AKT vs example #1? And rainbow variants again... heh.

Also, analysis for each of the above boards in HU situations and 5-way situations. I'm guessing in the latter you just do it with the nuts...?

Wow this actually was much, much longer than I expected, kept coming up with more stuff. Again I'm more than happy to move it to the poker theory or PLO subforum if it's too many basic questions to answer.
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:18 AM   #57
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesah View Post
Not sure if this question is super-basic (feel free to pass if it is either and I will copy paste this somewhere else on 2+2), what kind of boards do you consider good double barrel? For some specific examples:

1. 865
Are you more likely to double barrel on what turns? a blank? a 9? paired board? flush completes? Same questions if it's rainbow instead too.

2. K83
Same questions as above (blank turns, flush completing turns, board pairing turns, aces!?), also any difference if flop is rainbow?

3. QT6
The most common category of flop textures obv where the nuts can easily change. Best to double barrel on: blanks, draw completing cards, board pairing cards, flush completing cards?

4. Any other significant textures I missed? Are A-high boards (or just higher boards in general??) significantly different? perhaps AJ9 vs example #3, or A95 vs example #2, or AKT vs example #1? And rainbow variants again... heh.

Also, analysis for each of the above boards in HU situations and 5-way situations. I'm guessing in the latter you just do it with the nuts...?

Wow this actually was much, much longer than I expected, kept coming up with more stuff. Again I'm more than happy to move it to the poker theory or PLO subforum if it's too many basic questions to answer.
I'm not much of an expert either. What I would do is probably not correct considering double barreling is a leak of mine.

I think the key to solving these problems is a proper thought process. This is what I do now;

1-constructing villains c/c range on the flop
2-figuring out how the turn impacts his total c/c range OTF
3-betting the turn with the intention of folding/getting calls from a certain type of hand from his c/c range
4-constructing a bet size needed for #3.

#1 I actually would not cbet this texture often unless I had decent equity or if villains range was weighted to JJ-AA**. That said, I think its a bad double barrel board vs loose flop peelers.

1-we can assume he's calling with this type of range; 74**, 56**, 55**, 66**, 88**, *d*d**, 99**cc-KK**cc, 8BBBcc, 89T*.

2-He's going to be c/c calling a lot of his flop c/c range on most turns. I think double barreling this board with air is probably a bad idea vs a loose player.

3- 74**, 55,66,88, is never folding the turn. 56**, **d*d*, 89t* will fold to a scare card/unimproved, 8BBBcc, 99-KKcc will fold unimproved. That said, I think if you cbet this flop, you should cbet a 8, 9, most broadways. With the Ad in your hand, any diamond.

4- I'm betting 1/2-2/3 on an 8, 3/4 on 9-A, 2/3 on diamond.

#2 This is a board that I think is ripe for double barreling. If its rainbow, I'm betting it strong.

1- We can assume his c/c range is something like this K***, ****dd, 83**, 33**.

2-He's going to be c/f any K***, ****dd, 83** or 4567 on any unimproved turn. Most of his flop calling range is 1pair that folds without hitting a draw/2p on the turn.

3- I'm pretty much betting any turn here except K* without a K in my hand. I think he's going to be folding 75%+ of turns.

4- Sizing should be enough to get him to fold a pair+gutshot or weaker. 2/3 should do the trick.

#3 This is the grey area type of hand where I get completely lost.

1- c/c ranges here vary widely for players, so its really hard to figure out whats optimal. Let's assume a calling range of; Q***, JKB*, JK6*, BBBB, ****dd,

2- Any Broadway card is going to help his over c/c range OTF. Low cards won't change our perceived range or his hand strength, middling cards dont change much.

3- I like barreling any diamond, 6-8. Probably going to avoid barreling most Broadways as a bluff.

4- Sizing has to be fairly big on most turns, going to be lots of draws in his c/c range on the flop.


#4- I like A rag rag for double barreling. So many villains will call with A*** fold any turn unimproved.

As olav mentioned earlier, betting without a very strong hand in a 3-5way pot is suicide.


That's all I can think of for now. Again, pretty weak in this area so just developing some thoughts is useful for me. Would love any comments on my analysis.

Edit: Thought I had $200-300 on bodog, forgot I ran it up to $1100 playing .10/.25 PLO8. Free monies.

Last edited by tmckendry; 08-25-2012 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:43 PM   #58
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Nice thread OP, sorry for derailing your thread a bit .

While you're still here, Bug/olavfo, what is the lowest limit that you suggest I should start actually worrying about balance v.s an unknown reggish opponent ? I would expect to be able to play unbalanced up to at least PLO50.

EDIT : and by balance I mean the more defensive, "mainly for balance" plays, mostly defending the top of our folding range even though it might be slightly -EV to prevent ourselves from getting exploited in high frequency spots.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:07 PM   #59
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yayaya12 View Post

While you're still here, Bug/olavfo, what is the lowest limit that you suggest I should start actually worrying about balance v.s an unknown reggish opponent ? I would expect to be able to play unbalanced up to at least PLO50.
(OP: Sorry about the derailing, I'll shut up after this)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like this is what you're really asking:

"What's the highest limit that lets me get away with treating unknown regs as weak-tight fish?"

Doesn't really matter what limit you're playing. You want to know what this guy is doing versus you, and you get there by exploring. I'd say, poke and prod to learn about his ways (but be cautious in the big pots). If he buckles, keep pounding. If he's good/aggressive and won't have any of that, he'll let you know. Then you can try to exploit his adjustments to you, or you can fall back to whatever you think is balanced play to protect yourself.

At any rate, having an estimate of what balanced play IS for a particular scenario will be useful at any limit. It makes it easier to spot others' leaks (and exploitable holes in your own strategies), and it gives you a fall-back option.

Here's a good post by Jerrod Ankenman about decision making and balanced/unbalanced default play: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=123

Last edited by olavfo; 08-25-2012 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 08-27-2012, 08:47 AM   #60
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

fwiw I dont consider the above 2 posts on PLO strategy derailing. Actually, I'd encourage more discussion on such topics.

What I do when it comes to profiling unknowns you can make educated guesses based on username, how much they buy-in for, if they are multi-tabling, etc.



As for me, I'm finally adjusted to a regular sleeping/sex schedule and will be able to start playing more online pokers. The last few days I've played some short sessions at PLO10 and had terrible results;



Interesting hand;

Merge - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (UTG): $10.00
CO: $5.06
BTN: $10.91
SB: $16.89
BB: $10.15

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Q 8 Q 5

Hero raises to $0.35, fold, BTN calls $0.35, SB calls $0.30, fold

Flop: ($1.15, 3 players) T 3 9
SB checks, Hero bets $0.96, BTN calls $0.96, fold

Turn: ($3.07, 2 players) 6
Hero bets $2.40, BTN calls $2.40

River: ($7.87, 2 players) 2
Hero bets $1.90, BTN raises to $5.30, Hero calls $3.40

Spoiler:


I was going for super small sizing to induce a call from 1 pair that busted the draw or a spew. Turns out he spewed.

Hand2;

Merge - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $13.15
MP: $16.09
CO: $5.95
Hero (BTN): $10.09
SB: $10.06
BB: $21.38

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has J 5 T K

fold, MP calls $0.10, fold, Hero raises to $0.36, fold, fold, MP calls $0.26

Flop: ($0.87, 2 players) 5 8 7
MP checks, Hero bets $0.50, MP calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.87, 2 players) 8
MP checks, Hero bets $1.20, fold

Spoiler:


Obv good double barrel card

Merge - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $10.00
CO: $30.12
BTN: $10.93
SB: $4.62
Hero (BB): $10.92
UTG: $11.36

SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10, MP posts DB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.25) Hero has J 7 5 5

UTG calls $0.10, MP checks, CO calls $0.10, BTN calls $0.10, SB calls $0.05, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.60, 6 players) 8 T 5
SB checks, Hero bets $0.60, fold, MP calls $0.60, fold, fold, fold

Turn: ($1.80, 2 players) 4
Hero bets $1.20, MP calls $1.20

River: ($4.20, 2 players) 8
Hero bets $2.10, MP raises to $4.20, fold

Spoiler:


Hmmm, b/f river, c/c, c/f ? Lost on this one. Limited reads on villain, fairly loose passive over <50 hands.


In others news.. Whistler lease signed, deposit money sent. Also, got an affiliate RB deal on bestpoker (ongame). Need to do ID verification with moneybookers to deposit money. Need to do ID verification with bodog to cashout money. Just spent an hour scanning/signing/printing documents.
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:56 PM   #61
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Last 2 sessions I've played have been solid. Very few mistakes, only one for >50bb. Graph;




Few hands of interest;

Hand 1

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $34.75
BTN: $9.78
SB: $17.75
BB: $8.60
UTG: $3.50
Hero (MP): $17.71

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has 2 A 3 A

UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.20, 2 players) Q 4 3
UTG bets $1.20, Hero raises to $3.00, UTG calls $1.80 and is all-in

Turn: ($7.20, 2 players) J

River: ($7.20, 2 players) 7

Spoiler:


Villain is 88/20, fairly aggro. With $3:$4.20 I need 42% equity on the flop to shove, not sure if I have it. Against the following range;

Omaha Hi Simulation ?
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: Qd4s3c
Hand Equity Wins Ties
AsAd2s3s 37.02% 220,648 2,980
Q4**, Q3**, Q$B$B$B, 34**, 456*, 33**, 44**, 567* 62.98% 376,372 2,980

Short by 5%. assuming he always c/r's 33**/44** and c/c's QBBB.

Omaha Hi Simulation ?
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: Qd4s3c
Hand Equity Wins Ties
AsAd2s3s 38.45% 229,328 2,746
Q4**, Q3**, 34**, 456*, 567* 61.55% 367,926 2,746

Short by 4%.

I think overall against a random aggro fish this is a sigh fold. Calling off my stack with ~-5% to 0% EV just seems unnecessary against random fish at micro stakes. Perhaps against regs its justifiable, but no point against these random fishes.


Hand 2;

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $12.23
UTG: $26.77
Hero (BTN): $21.31
SB: $10.09

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has A 6 A Q

UTG raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.80, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.80, 2 players) 4 2 K
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.25, UTG calls $1.25

Turn: ($4.30, 2 players) T
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($4.30, 2 players) 9
UTG checks, Hero checks

Spoiler:


Villain is 34/12, loose post.

This is one of those hands where I need to cbet the turn. So much of his c/c range on the flop is K***. I have the nut blocker and can fold out 2pair, 345*, or pair+draw hands that have 30-65% equity vs my hand.

Hand 3;

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $10.30
MP: $10.72
Hero (CO): $10.11
BTN: $9.80
SB: $25.28
BB: $9.16

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has 4 8 A T

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, SB raises to $1.00, fold, Hero calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.10, 2 players) A J Q
SB bets $1.60, Hero calls $1.60

Turn: ($5.30, 2 players) 4
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($5.30, 2 players) J
SB bets $5.30, Hero calls $5.30

Spoiler:



Villain is 30/10/0 over ~25 hands. The turn check confused the hell out of me, I figured he rarely checks back AA** and never checks the straight. Figured he had a lot of KK** in his range.

On the river I just find it so hard for him to be pot value betting a boat, esp how he played the hand. Against a range of KKxxds that bluffs the river and AAK* that value bets, It's an easy call. If I put AA** and KKxxds, its a fold. The line baffles me, but I suppose the read I should have took was ..he just potted the river, he likes his hand, I should fold my buffcatcher. This was the hand I think I made a big mistake for >50bb. He's bluffing here <10%.


Anyways, still working on my game. Areas of focus atm are raising my turn cbet% and 3betting lighter in position.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:08 PM   #62
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Wanted to reply for it for quite some time now, but never got around to it. Re: board textures.

I typically play in games where people literally don't fold to double barrels even remotely often enough, my sample size is super small but out of the last 10 times I bet both flop/turn, I was called 10/10 times. Fortunately always for value.

Regarding the wet boards and the nuts changing, Steph suggested that villains have higher percentages of flush draws than boat/straight draws in their ranges, so you should be more prone to barrel boards where straights/boats complete rather than where flushes complete. In other words, the flush completing card is a scare card for you.

As general low stakes goes, blanks are typically not good cards to barrel since most villains have too low of a call flop->fold turn percentage (I think?)
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:28 PM   #63
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Hand 1: gg

Hand 2: That deep with offsuit crappy aces I'm much more inclined to just flat the raise pre-flop. You have the button so you don't have to worry about driving anyone out that will have position on you. If the blinds fold you end up with the same result as 3-betting, with just a more manageable pot. If one or both of the blinds come in, just set-mine and take them to value town.

You already said this but as played I'm definitely barreling turn and possibly the river as well.

Hand 3: I really don't like calling 3-bets with a hand with an A unless villain is an extremely light 3-bettor, so I probably just fold pre.

I like floating the flop. If deeper I would probably raise-fold but thats not really possible with these stacks.

As played I would bet turn after he checks because that turn is a clean card so he's never checking KT there. Not sure about river honestly but I usually don't hero call in PLO without a really good reason.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:31 AM   #64
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckendry View Post
Few hands of interest;

Hand 1

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $34.75
BTN: $9.78
SB: $17.75
BB: $8.60
UTG: $3.50
Hero (MP): $17.71

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has 2 A 3 A

UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.20, 2 players) Q 4 3
UTG bets $1.20, Hero raises to $3.00, UTG calls $1.80 and is all-in

Turn: ($7.20, 2 players) J

River: ($7.20, 2 players) 7

Spoiler:


Villain is 88/20, fairly aggro. With $3:$4.20 I need 42% equity on the flop to shove, not sure if I have it. Against the following range;
One point here is the rake: you aren't risking 3 to win 7.20, you are risking 3 to win 6.72. Your break-even equity is 44.6% rather than 41.7%.

Like the other comment, I'm not sure I like the raise with very weak aces. Turns your hand face up too much for me.

Last edited by slowjoe; 08-29-2012 at 02:32 AM. Reason: Removed quoted graph
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:19 AM   #65
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesah View Post
Wanted to reply for it for quite some time now, but never got around to it. Re: board textures.

I typically play in games where people literally don't fold to double barrels even remotely often enough, my sample size is super small but out of the last 10 times I bet both flop/turn, I was called 10/10 times. Fortunately always for value.

Regarding the wet boards and the nuts changing, Steph suggested that villains have higher percentages of flush draws than boat/straight draws in their ranges, so you should be more prone to barrel boards where straights/boats complete rather than where flushes complete. In other words, the flush completing card is a scare card for you.

As general low stakes goes, blanks are typically not good cards to barrel since most villains have too low of a call flop->fold turn percentage (I think?)

I agree with Steph. I'd be curious to do a quick study on constructing a range and finding all the combinations that a looser player would c/c flop to gauge a better understanding. I'll probably do this in the near future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
Hand 1: gg

Hand 2: That deep with offsuit crappy aces I'm much more inclined to just flat the raise pre-flop. You have the button so you don't have to worry about driving anyone out that will have position on you. If the blinds fold you end up with the same result as 3-betting, with just a more manageable pot. If one or both of the blinds come in, just set-mine and take them to value town.

You already said this but as played I'm definitely barreling turn and possibly the river as well.

Hand 3: I really don't like calling 3-bets with a hand with an A unless villain is an extremely light 3-bettor, so I probably just fold pre.

I like floating the flop. If deeper I would probably raise-fold but thats not really possible with these stacks.

As played I would bet turn after he checks because that turn is a clean card so he's never checking KT there. Not sure about river honestly but I usually don't hero call in PLO without a really good reason.
Hand 2 I should probably only 3b top 75% of AA** hands 200bb deep. my 3b% hovers in the 9% range on the button, but will be assigned a range of exactly AA** every time I 3bet..

Hand 3.. I always feel like if I have an A in my hand and an ace flops it lowers the chances villain has AA**, this is false and has costed me lots of money. Pre call was marginal.. if my hand was single suited id muck pre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowjoe View Post
One point here is the rake: you aren't risking 3 to win 7.20, you are risking 3 to win 6.72. Your break-even equity is 44.6% rather than 41.7%.

Like the other comment, I'm not sure I like the raise with very weak aces. Turns your hand face up too much for me.
Thank for pointing this out. Given rake, its certainly a muck on the flop. It's strange because these stack offs seem so "standard" but in reality are often -EV or neutral EV at best.
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:16 AM   #66
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckendry View Post
I agree with Steph. I'd be curious to do a quick study on constructing a range and finding all the combinations that a looser player would c/c flop to gauge a better understanding. I'll probably do this in the near future.
It's 4:17am, no games going, will do this now.

Let's use the following example;

calls $.10 in CO (46/6, low agg freq), Hero (25/16/5) raises to $.40 with ****, CO calls $.30.

Flop ($.95) Qh 9d 4h

CO Checks, hero bets $.95, CO calls.

c/c range excludes QQ**/99**/44**.

Range;

Now, when we calculate combinations we have to make more assumptions. For instance, villain is open limping ~10-60% of starting hands in the CO, so hands like AKQJ and T422 are not included. I'll do my own "Discounting" to try and get a more accurate picture of his range.

Also, there will be a little bit of double counting and I want to spend <1hour doing this. I will try to minimize.

1-btm/middle+gutshot (4KJ*(50%), 4J8*(25%), 9KJ*, 9J8*)
2-Q***(75%)
3-94**(50%)
4-JT**(90%)
5-any hearts(75%) (*h*h** - rest of range)

1- (4c1 * 4c1 * 4c1 * 42c1)50% + (4c1 * 4c1 * 4c1 * 42c1)25% + ((4c1*4c1*4c1*42c1) x 2)
= ~4500

2- (4c1 * 44c3 52,976).75= 38,000

3- (4c1 * 4c1 * 45c2).5 = 8,000

4- (4c1 * 4c1 * 45c2).9 = 14,000

**5- (13c1 * 12c1 * 45c2) -(#1-#4) = 90,000

total combos in range = 154,500

**Note; 1-4 had some double counting, making part 5 of range an even smaller % of total range, so I assumed he limp/called 100% of *h*h** hands preflop.

What's really interesting here is that a loose passive type is going to have a naked-ish flush draw ~58% of the time when he check/calls this type of flop. He will have a queen 25%, and the rest of his range is hardly worth considering.

When it comes to the question of barreling the turn... Assuming
1-he folds his bare draws on the turn if the board pairs,
1-folds Q*** to an overcard that he doesn't pair

The best barrel cards (in order) would be an offsuit 9 (esp. for triple barreling), Queen, off suit ace, off suit king. Worst barrel cards; 9h, Kh, any other heart, off-suit 2-8.

So, our intuition when it comes villains c/c range on the flop on a wet board is true. Most of villains range (over 50%, actually) is going to consist of a bare-ish flush draw, and over 60% will be draws.

Against a typical lappy fish that we want to fold the turn or river only barreling 11/45ish or ~25% turn cards is going to be advisable.
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:47 AM   #67
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Played a session last night and a quick session this morning. I disconnected twice in the first 10 minutes, quit session and went to reset router.

Games are sub-par right now so I decided to read up on a few of Bugs PLO articles. Learnt that I need to be betting ~100% of my range HU on dry ace high boards. I filtered for PP Middle pair on flop after open raising preflop on a rainbow flop and found out I'm a fairly solid loser over 80 hands. I'm only cbetting 35%. I can't seem to filter for HU pots, but I imagine most of them are HU.

I'll be playing a few sessions today and lounging around at a friends. Might play live pokers tonight.
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Old 09-01-2012, 08:02 PM   #68
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

August is finished. Had decent results, advanced in stakes, and most importantly.. learnt a bunch.

Finished up PLO4. Games are pretty soft and all that’s needed to win is some weak-tight nut-peddling. Bluffing is extremely ineffective, and bluff-catching is rarely successful. Sadly, it is a little bit boring. Thankfully, I ended up running really well over a relatively short sample and gained the confidence to move up to PLO10. Graph;



Immediately upon moving up to PLO10 I activated doom-switch and have been a solid loser in August. PLO10 plays almost identical to PLPO4, from what I can tell. I think some more experience and studying should turn me into a decent winner in September. Graph;


I spent most of my “working” hours this month playing $1/3 live PLO where I made some decent cash over a small sample. My results are pretty much entirely due to positive variance. Live PLO about as high variance as it gets. At 50hours/wk and 15hands/hr your looking at ~750 hands.

I did a few sessions of $2/5 NLH to keep my living expenses in check. Cleared my living expense/plane ticket costs this month, and that’s about it. I’m living at home until November so it’s a great time to advance through PLO10/PLO25.. from a cash flow perspective.

I’ve noticed that playing 5-6 tables typically results in a losing session for me. So, I’m going to stick to 4 tables this month. I’ll be trying to get a 4:1’ish of playing:studying this month as a bit of an experiment. I plan on only using PT3 to analyze my game and Bugs articles to learn. In terms of goals I have a few. First, 30k hands 4-tabling. Second, profit. Aside from that, trying to avoid eating any bread, play more tennis, and play 2 $2/5 sessions/wk.
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:58 PM   #69
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Yikes. Just played a horrrrrible session. Made 2 horrific mistakes, lost big pots getting it in way behind and losing. Pretty pissed.



Hand1;

Merge - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $19.53
SB: $10.00
BB: $9.85
Hero (UTG): $24.93

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has 9 A J J

Hero raises to $0.35, BTN raises to $1.20, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.85

Flop: ($2.55, 2 players) 6 5 8
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.55, Hero raises to $10.20, BTN raises to $18.33 and is all-in, Hero calls $8.13

Turn: ($39.21, 2 players) 8

River: ($39.21, 2 players) 6

Spoiler:


Pretty much a c/c or b/f with these stacks 100% of the time. c/r is the worst option and got me anal raped. Obviously ran into the worst possible scenario, but still could have easily been avoided by c/c or b/f.

Hand 2;

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $18.61
CO: $31.92
BTN: $5.07
SB: $9.90
Hero (BB): $14.00

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has 6 8 4 7

UTG raises to $0.40, CO raises to $1.40, fold, fold, Hero calls $1.30, UTG calls $1.00

Flop: ($4.30, 3 players) 2 3 4
Hero bets $1.50, UTG calls $1.50, CO raises to $10.30, Hero raises to $12.60 and is all-in, UTG raises to $17.21 and is all-in, CO calls $6.91

Turn: ($51.32, 3 players) 3

River: ($51.32, 3 players) 9

Spoiler:


In this hand the PFR is a total drooler and the other villain is stationy. Bet to try and trap the station and get the PFR'er to raise with his garbage. Perhaps c/c here is best if my read is the drooler never folds and often raise/calls his 1 pair hands.


Feeling really bad about this last session-- mostly anger. I got my money in good twice for <100bb and I got >100bb in with <10% twice by making big mistakes. For me, the worst sessions are making big mistakes and losing. Also sucks to kick off the month with a -4.5 BI session.

edit, 3rd hand;

read on villain is he just sat down, 0 hands, posts in the CO..
Merge - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): $17.67
UTG: $4.04
MP: $9.86
CO: $10.00
BTN: $10.61
SB: $10.05

SB posts SB $0.05, Hero posts BB $0.10, CO posts DB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.25) Hero has 9 K 2 K

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.35, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.10, CO raises to $3.35, Hero raises to $10.10, CO calls $6.65 and is all-in

Flop: ($20.05, 2 players) 4 9 8

Turn: ($20.05, 2 players) 8

River: ($20.05, 2 players) 2

Spoiler:


Is this just a standard get it in with KKds? The question is; Can you assume someone who just sits and posts in the CO is maybe just a maniac willing to get it in super light, or does 4b=always going to be AA.

Last edited by tmckendry; 09-01-2012 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:25 AM   #70
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Played 2 short losing sessions, no interesting hands. Spending lost of time visiting people back home, so ill keep these updates short and try and grind.

Played a 10 hour live NLH session hungover yesterday, profited $2173. Really pumped on the big win to carry me through the month.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:59 AM   #71
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Power adapter on macbook pro went out. Local store is selling for $100, ebay for $30. Ordered off eBay, playing on PC desktop for the next few days.

Sucks for PT3 data management. Meh.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:51 PM   #72
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Played decent today. 1-2 big mistakes over 850 hands. I finally ran top set into middle set, then he spiked quads OTT. Waiting to be on the positive side of coolers this month...



Hand 1; Played poorly..

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $10.45
MP: $10.89
CO: $13.24
Hero (BTN): $9.90
SB: $6.68
BB: $13.43

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has T 6 K A

fold, MP raises to $0.30, fold, Hero calls $0.30, SB calls $0.20, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.20, 4 players) K T 5
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets $0.80, Hero raises to $3.00, fold, fold, MP raises to $10.20, Hero calls $6.60 and is all-in

Turn: ($20.40, 2 players) J

River: ($20.40, 2 players) 3

MP shows T T 4 K (Three of a Kind, Tens) (Pre 55%, Flop 95%, Turn 89%)
Hero shows T 6 K A (Two Pair, Kings and Tens) (Pre 45%, Flop 5%, Turn 11%)
MP wins $19.04

I like flat > raise/fold > raise/call. I always think "Blockers to sets" and seemingly run into sets half the time.

Hand 2: I like

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $2.71
SB: $18.13
Hero (BB): $20.39
UTG: $14.35
MP: $9.90
CO: $22.96

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has A 3 7 A

fold, MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10, fold, SB checks, Hero raises to $0.20, MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10, fold

Flop: ($0.70, 3 players) 3 7 7
Hero bets $0.40, fold, CO raises to $1.90, Hero calls $1.50

Turn: ($4.50, 2 players) T
Hero checks, CO bets $3.40, Hero calls $3.40

River: ($11.30, 2 players) J
Hero checks, CO checks

Hero shows A 3 7 A (Full House, Sevens full of Threes)
Hero wins $10.55

Agfr of 60 over 50 hands. Read was aggro player making a move with air.

Hand3;

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $10.16
Hero (BTN): $25.26
SB: $11.88
BB: $3.10
UTG: $19.69
MP: $10.49

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has 3 K 6 K

fold, MP calls $0.10, CO raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $1.20, fold, BB calls $1.10, MP calls $1.10, CO calls $0.90

Flop: ($4.90, 4 players) 4 8 Q
BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets $2.50, fold, fold, CO raises to $8.96 and is all-in, Hero calls $6.46

Turn: ($22.82, 2 players) 8

River: ($22.82, 2 players) 5

CO shows 7 6 A 8 (Flush, Ace High) (Pre 50%, Flop 70%, Turn 95%)
Hero shows 3 K 6 K (Two Pair, Kings and Eights) (Pre 50%, Flop 30%, Turn 5%)
CO wins $21.30

This hand I was pretty lost. CO is 30/22 fold23b of 50% over 150ish hands. Should I still flat with dry kings? I felt like I would get heads up be able to take it down OTF 50%+.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:13 PM   #73
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Played more live NLH, 5.5 hours, +$983.. game is guuuud.

Going to see matt good tonight, hopefully can get in 1k hands. Totally off pace for 30k hand goal this month.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:28 PM   #74
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Just played an awesome PLO session. Played well, won big. Made a few moves that were successful. Check it;




Hand 1;

Villain is 30/20, capable of moving moves, played abvouty 100 hands with him
I have aggro image, 0% 3bet.

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $9.90
CO: $25.64
BTN: $12.89
Hero (SB): $31.79
BB: $9.80

Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has 8 Q T J

fold, CO raises to $0.30, fold, Hero raises to $1.00, fold, CO calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.10, 2 players) A 9 7
Hero bets $1.75, CO calls $1.75

Turn: ($5.60, 2 players) 8
Hero bets $4.00, CO raises to $8.00, Hero raises to $29.04 and is all-in, fold

Hero wins $20.16

I think flatting and shoving 100% of rivers is best. Feels like he has the 2nd nuts here and would never raise a set given my percieved range.

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $5.00
UTG: $10.04
Hero (MP): $21.33
CO: $4.62
BTN: $14.61
SB: $9.97

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has K A K 8

fold, Hero raises to $0.40, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.90, 2 players) 4 Q 6
BB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.90, 2 players) 5
BB bets $0.70, Hero raises to $1.40, BB calls $0.70

River: ($4.70, 2 players) 8
BB checks, Hero bets $3.00, fold

Hero wins $4.39

Felt like for sure villain had 2pair or a set on this flop given flop and turn betting. Was pretty sure I could rep the NFD here and get him off a set OTR.

Hand 3;

OnGame - $0.10 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $6.08
MP: $8.81
CO: $10.00
BTN: $10.52
Hero (SB): $17.71
BB: $6.23

Hero posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.20) Hero has 8 4 9 6

fold, MP raises to $0.40, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.30, fold

Flop: ($0.90, 2 players) 3 5 8
Hero bets $0.70, MP calls $0.70

Turn: ($2.30, 2 players) T
Hero bets $2.30, MP calls $2.30

River: ($6.90, 2 players) K
Hero bets $6.00, MP calls $5.41 and is all-in

MP shows J 8 K Q (Two Pair, Kings and Eights) (Pre 57%, Flop 44%, Turn 50%)
Hero shows 8 4 9 6 (One Pair, Eights) (Pre 43%, Flop 56%, Turn 50%)
MP wins $16.54

This hand tilted me a bit.. how do I whiff that river... maybe this is a check given all draws whiffed. villain is 35é15
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:30 PM   #75
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Re: Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckendry View Post
So, I’m going to stick to 4 tables this month. I’ll be trying to get a 4:1’ish of playing:studying this month as a bit of an experiment. I plan on only using PT3 to analyze my game and Bugs articles to learn. In terms of goals I have a few. First, 30k hands 4-tabling. Second, profit. Aside from that, trying to avoid eating any bread, play more tennis, and play 2 $2/5 sessions/wk.
Yeah, 30k hands 4 tabling is going to be near impossible. Re-adjusting goal to 20k.
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