Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200) Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200)

03-08-2013 , 05:04 PM
Yeah, I think hand 2 was close. I don't think its a clear b/f or b/c. I'm on ****ty mcdonalds internet atm, so I'll analyze the hand instead of grinding..

In this hand both players were fishy, so ranges are pretty wide on the flop. (as evident from the hands they showdown). We need 19.2% equity 3 ways. It depends on how light they get it in here.. but if we look at fishes get it in range here...

board: 8s6h2s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
25%8***, 66, 22, As*s, Ks*s, Qs*s, Js*s, 7T9, 675, JJ79)!AA 36.16% 211,383 11,110
40%8***, 66, 22, As*s, Ks*s, Qs*s, Js*s, 7T9, 675, JJ79)!AA 36.59% 214,247 10,599
KcKh6c4h 27.25% 160,495 6,062

edit: I have a BD FD in this example, so we only have ~25%, not 27%.

It's a clear get it in vs these ranges... As alientu pointed out, they are going to sometimes both have a flushdraw or 8*** here which we have great equity against. If they were regs and had tighter ranges, it could very well be a b/f. Let's tighten it up a bit...

board: 8s6c2s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
20%8***, 66, 22, As*s, Ks*s, Qs*s, Js*s, 7T9)!AA 36.37% 211,796 12,857
20%8***, 66, 22, As*s, Ks*s, 7T9)!AA 37.29% 216,696 14,122
KcKh64h 26.34% 153,401 9,248

Okay.. so equity only dips a tiny bit vs tighter ranges. I suppose there are far fewer set combos in a tight range in this example, so it actually doesn't make much of a difference. But yeah, folding ~7% equity in a 3bet pot is actually not that marginal-- it's a pretty clear b/c. I can fold getting 3:1 or worse.

I suppose I could bet ~$15-20 on flops like this, but it actually allows the fish to play perfectly against me. If they call any weak pair+draw hand I'm actually giving them the correct drawing odds. For instance, a A234 has ~14 dirty outs and would be correct to call a $15 on the flop, whereas a fish may fold to a larger bet.

To have the 19.2% minimum, they can flip monsters over and we still have to get it in.

board: 8s6c2s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
25%89T)!AA 32.01% 188,923 6,314
40%As*s)!AA 48.69% 288,266 7,753
KcKh64h 19.30% 115,058 1,439


So, I'm in Banff now. The city (or village?) is super small, but has a real friendly vibe to it. Similar to Whistler, but less of a tourist vibe. The aussie girl I'm staying with is awesome! She ordered a bigger bed and cooked meat lasagna in preparation for my arrival

The bus ride was super crap (13 hours, /w broke people), so I'm setting a results oriented goal for my trip back to Whistler. If I can play 20 hours and clear $1,000 in 5 days, I'll take a plane back instead. It's +$300 on the trip, but saves ~7 hours

Last edited by tmckendry; 03-08-2013 at 05:12 PM.
Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200) Quote
03-09-2013 , 12:53 AM
Ugh.. more losing.

I feel like I'm running into coolers, but maybe I'm just spewing?

Hand 1:

Call??

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $134.32
UTG: $101.82
MP: $203.38
Hero (CO): $119.63
BTN: $480.71
SB: $115.00

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has Q 8 T K

UTG calls $1.00, fold, Hero raises to $4.00, BTN calls $4.00, SB calls $3.50, BB calls $3.00, UTG calls $3.00

Flop: ($20.00, 5 players) T 6 K
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $16.00, BTN calls $16.00, fold, BB calls $16.00, fold

Turn: ($68.00, 3 players) 3
BB checks, Hero bets $65.20, BTN raises to $130.40, fold, Hero calls $34.43 and is all-in

River: ($267.26, 2 players) 6

Spoiler:
Hero shows Q 8 T K (Two Pair, Kings and Tens) (Pre 60%, Flop 49%, Turn 47%)
BTN shows 6 T J K (Full House, Sixes full of Kings) (Pre 40%, Flop 51%, Turn 53%)
BTN wins $264.46


Hand 2:

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $149.98
BB: $100.00
Hero (UTG): $125.61
BTN: $111.09

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has J Q 9 6

Hero raises to $3.00, fold, fold, BB calls $2.00

Flop: ($6.50, 2 players) 5 3 J
BB bets $5.00, Hero calls $5.00

Turn: ($16.50, 2 players) Q
BB bets $15.76, Hero raises to $63.04, BB raises to $92.00 and is all-in, Hero calls $28.96

River: ($200.50, 2 players) 3

Spoiler:
BB shows Q T A Q (Full House, Queens full of Threes) (Pre 64%, Flop 64%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows J Q 9 6 (Two Pair, Queens and Jacks) (Pre 36%, Flop 36%, Turn 0%)
BB wins $199.00


Turn ??

Hand 3:

Flat turn? Guy is fishy..

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $176.65
Hero (BTN): $100.00
SB: $100.00
BB: $252.65
UTG: $247.23

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has K 8 A Q

UTG raises to $3.50, fold, Hero calls $3.50, fold, fold

Flop: ($8.50, 2 players) A Q 3
UTG bets $5.00, Hero calls $5.00

Turn: ($18.50, 2 players) 6
UTG bets $17.67, Hero raises to $70.68, UTG raises to $229.71, Hero calls $20.82 and is all-in

River: ($201.50, 2 players) K

Spoiler:
UTG shows A J 5 A (Three of a Kind, Aces) (Pre 73%, Flop 95%, Turn 82%)
Hero shows K 8 A Q (Two Pair, Aces and Kings) (Pre 27%, Flop 5%, Turn 17%)
UTG wins $198.70


Hand 4:

Fold river?

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $60.77
UTG: $103.00
CO: $135.37
Hero (BTN): $102.82
SB: $627.41

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has A J 7 8

UTG raises to $3.50, fold, Hero calls $3.50, fold, fold

Flop: ($8.50, 2 players) 6 9 3
UTG bets $8.12, Hero calls $8.12

Turn: ($24.74, 2 players) A
UTG bets $14.00, Hero calls $14.00

River: ($52.74, 2 players) J
UTG bets $36.00, Hero calls $36.00

Spoiler:
UTG shows T K A A (Three of a Kind, Aces) (Pre 67%, Flop 64%, Turn 82%)
Hero mucks A J 7 8 (Two Pair, Aces and Jacks) (Pre 33%, Flop 36%, Turn 17%)
UTG wins $121.94
Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200) Quote
03-09-2013 , 01:06 AM
All looks wp/optimal besides 2 and 3. I would definitely flat the turn in hand 2 and consider it in hand 3 based on his turn sizing, raising can't ever be bad though I just think flatting is better since raising narrows his range so much.
Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200) Quote
03-09-2013 , 05:00 PM
On hand 2.. I felt like his sizing indicated the Q helped his range significantly. I wanted to raise for value. Didn't think his range was that wide when he pots the turn on this board texture.. I thought I was still ahead of his range and he had hands like KKT/JKT/J9T. Although, this is all based on a board texture/sizing read. Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself and its better overall to flat and keep in his bluffs..

For hand 3 I wanted to raise because the guy was fishy and the board was wet. I'm also not sure what he would do with busted draws on the river-- He didn't seem that aggro, and if he doesn't bluff the river that much, flatting doesn't have any merit. On the flip side.. If he pots them or bets big, flatting is best.. I guess in spots like these with no strong reads on villain my default is to raise. I know we have different views on this though
Crushing PLO (PLO5-->PLO200) Quote
03-09-2013 , 10:13 PM
Okay, so just finished up a quick session. Massive loser, per usual. I'm going to take a look at a couple hands I played that confused me in game.

Hand 1:

Villain is reg, I'm not really sure whats best on the flop..

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $301.15
Hero (UTG): $109.97
CO: $100.00
BTN: $208.43
SB: $100.00

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has 4 8 7 5

Hero raises to $3.00, fold, fold, SB raises to $10.00, fold, Hero calls $7.00

Flop: ($21.00, 2 players) 5 Q T
SB bets $12.00, Hero raises to $56.06, SB raises to $90.00 and is all-in, Hero calls $33.94

Turn: ($201.00, 2 players) 4

River: ($201.00, 2 players) 2

Spoiler:
SB shows J A 6 A (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 59%, Flop 73%, Turn 42%)
Hero shows 4 8 7 5 (Two Pair, Fives and Fours) (Pre 41%, Flop 27%, Turn 57%)
Hero wins $198.20


When villain bets this small on a wet board it makes me think he has a strong hand, probably pair+nfd/set. Raising here doesn't accomplish too much.. I suppose he folds dry AA/KK, but he probably wouldn't cbet them too often here..

So, raising just narrows his range to hands that crush me. For my shove to be good he has to be B/f'ing often because when he gets it in, I'm looking at ~20-40% equity.

If I'm risking $90 to win $33, and we assume when he gets it in I have an average of ~30% equity..

x=b/f % needed to be +EV.

= (x)33 + (1-x)(.3*110 - .7*90)
= 33x + (1-x)(33-63)
= 33x + -33 + 33x
-66x = 33c
x = 50%

He's not bet/folding 50% here, so shoving is -EV. calling is zee best play.. Not 100% sure on math I've done.. so cross-check would be nice

Hand 2:

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (UTG): $145.18
CO: $342.23
BTN: $74.00
SB: $210.43
BB: $100.00

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has 3 A 7 A

Hero raises to $3.00, CO raises to $10.00, BTN calls $10.00, fold, fold, Hero raises to $41.50, CO calls $31.50, BTN calls $31.50

Flop: ($126.00, 3 players) 5 8 9
Hero bets $103.68 and is all-in, CO calls $103.68, BTN calls $32.50 and is all-in

Turn: ($365.86, 3 players) T

River: ($365.86, 3 players) 8

Spoiler:
Hero shows 3 A 7 A (Two Pair, Aces and Eights) (Pre 39%, Flop 3%, Turn 0%)
CO shows J A T T (Full House, Tens full of Eights) (Pre 33%, Flop 27%, Turn 42%)
BTN shows 7 7 4 6 (Straight, Ten High) (Pre 28%, Flop 70%, Turn 58%)
CO wins $363.06


Not sure what's best here.. I think with a SPR<1 against a ~40% range and ~20% range, I have to jam.. Obv ran into worst case scenario..

Hand 3:

This is a c/f.. Not sure why I got it in here, I suppose I thought I had 42% vs his potting range.. Probably don't.

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $192.97
SB: $155.39
Hero (BB): $104.16
UTG: $98.00
MP: $185.34
CO: $86.48

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has A A 8 7

fold, fold, CO raises to $3.00, BTN calls $3.00, fold, Hero raises to $12.50, CO calls $9.50, BTN calls $9.50

Flop: ($38.00, 3 players) 2 Q K
Hero checks, CO bets $36.29, fold, Hero raises to $91.66 and is all-in, CO calls $37.69 and is all-in

Turn: ($185.96, 2 players) 8

River: ($185.96, 2 players) J

Spoiler:
Hero shows A A 8 7 (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 66%, Flop 25%, Turn 17%)
CO shows 5 K Q T (Two Pair, Kings and Queens) (Pre 34%, Flop 75%, Turn 82%)
CO wins $183.16


Not sure if I like the 3bet pre either. It's marginal, but probably better to flat.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-10-2013 , 04:07 AM
Feels like I cannot win. I suppose this is what I signed up for.. This happens to be biggest losing week of all-time since I started playing poker 3 years ago. Sure, I'm not playing great, but the situational variance is absolutely out of control. I'm getting my ass handed to me every single hand. I've been complaining a bunch in this thread.. I'll try to avoid posting cooler after cooler and focus on making the best decisions in marginal spots..

Anyways, Todays graph;



Some hands:

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $63.66
CO: $82.51
Hero (BTN): $168.77
SB: $316.45
BB: $91.06

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has T A 3 8

UTG calls $1.00, fold, Hero raises to $4.00, SB raises to $14.00, BB calls $13.00, fold, Hero calls $10.00

Flop: ($43.00, 3 players) A 3 6
SB bets $39.00, fold, Hero calls $39.00

Turn: ($121.00, 2 players) 5
SB checks, Hero bets $70.00, SB raises to $263.45 and is all-in, fold

Spoiler:
SB wins $258.20


Not sure what to do here. Villain has 4% 3bet, so his range is AA heavy. When he pots the flop should I just muck? AP he obviously has the nut flush. I feel gross here, is it just a muck on the flop?

Hand 2:

Villain is 60/4/0 and has 22 agg freq

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $109.42
UTG: $120.61
Hero (MP): $237.08
CO: $100.00
BTN: $169.87
SB: $254.97

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has J A J 9

fold, Hero raises to $3.00, fold, fold, SB calls $2.50, fold

Flop: ($7.00, 2 players) 7 3 8
SB checks, Hero bets $4.50, SB calls $4.50

Turn: ($16.00, 2 players) 8
SB checks, Hero bets $10.00, SB calls $10.00

River: ($36.00, 2 players) T
SB checks, Hero bets $24.00, SB raises to $106.38, fold

Spoiler:
SB wins $81.20


Anyone just check back river here? I find most whales go for the c/r on the turn with a fullhouse..

Hand 3:

Villain is short-stacking reg, low flop cbet%..

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $117.24
MP: $101.26
CO: $68.67
BTN: $102.43
Hero (SB): $187.75
BB: $118.20

Hero posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has A A 9 A

fold, MP calls $1.00, CO raises to $3.00, fold, Hero calls $2.50, fold, MP calls $2.00

Flop: ($10.00, 3 players) 8 2 8
Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks

Turn: ($10.00, 3 players) Q
Hero bets $5.50, fold, CO calls $5.50

River: ($21.00, 2 players) 5
Hero bets $13.50, CO raises to $60.17 and is all-in, fold

Spoiler:
CO wins $45.84


Anyone go for value on the river vs KK/curious AQ?

Hand 4:

If villain has 50% turn cbet % overall, anyone raise the turn here?

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $102.82
Hero (BB): $102.39
UTG: $36.50
CO: $124.38
BTN: $98.16

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has 6 K A 8

fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $3.00, Hero calls $2.00

Flop: ($6.00, 2 players) 9 J 3
SB bets $4.00, Hero calls $4.00

Turn: ($14.00, 2 players) 7
SB bets $9.00, Hero calls $9.00

River: ($32.00, 2 players) T
SB checks, Hero bets $22.00, fold

Spoiler:
Hero wins $30.56


Not really sure what he does on rivers. He's aggro in general, but I doubt he would bluff spades..
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-10-2013 , 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckendry
Okay, so just finished up a quick session. Massive loser, per usual. I'm going to take a look at a couple hands I played that confused me in game.

Hand 1:

Villain is reg, I'm not really sure whats best on the flop..

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $301.15
Hero (UTG): $109.97
CO: $100.00
BTN: $208.43
SB: $100.00

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has 4 8 7 5

Hero raises to $3.00, fold, fold, SB raises to $10.00, fold, Hero calls $7.00

Flop: ($21.00, 2 players) 5 Q T
SB bets $12.00, Hero raises to $56.06, SB raises to $90.00 and is all-in, Hero calls $33.94

Turn: ($201.00, 2 players) 4

River: ($201.00, 2 players) 2

Spoiler:
SB shows J A 6 A (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 59%, Flop 73%, Turn 42%)
Hero shows 4 8 7 5 (Two Pair, Fives and Fours) (Pre 41%, Flop 27%, Turn 57%)
Hero wins $198.20


When villain bets this small on a wet board it makes me think he has a strong hand, probably pair+nfd/set. Raising here doesn't accomplish too much.. I suppose he folds dry AA/KK, but he probably wouldn't cbet them too often here..

So, raising just narrows his range to hands that crush me. For my shove to be good he has to be B/f'ing often because when he gets it in, I'm looking at ~20-40% equity.

If I'm risking $90 to win $33, and we assume when he gets it in I have an average of ~30% equity..

x=b/f % needed to be +EV.

= (x)33 + (1-x)(.3*110 - .7*90)
= 33x + (1-x)(33-63)
= 33x + -33 + 33x
-66x = 33c
x = 50%

He's not bet/folding 50% here, so shoving is -EV. calling is zee best play.. Not 100% sure on math I've done.. so cross-check would be nice

Hand 2:

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (UTG): $145.18
CO: $342.23
BTN: $74.00
SB: $210.43
BB: $100.00

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has 3 A 7 A

Hero raises to $3.00, CO raises to $10.00, BTN calls $10.00, fold, fold, Hero raises to $41.50, CO calls $31.50, BTN calls $31.50

Flop: ($126.00, 3 players) 5 8 9
Hero bets $103.68 and is all-in, CO calls $103.68, BTN calls $32.50 and is all-in

Turn: ($365.86, 3 players) T

River: ($365.86, 3 players) 8

Spoiler:
Hero shows 3 A 7 A (Two Pair, Aces and Eights) (Pre 39%, Flop 3%, Turn 0%)
CO shows J A T T (Full House, Tens full of Eights) (Pre 33%, Flop 27%, Turn 42%)
BTN shows 7 7 4 6 (Straight, Ten High) (Pre 28%, Flop 70%, Turn 58%)
CO wins $363.06


Not sure what's best here.. I think with a SPR<1 against a ~40% range and ~20% range, I have to jam.. Obv ran into worst case scenario..

Hand 3:

This is a c/f.. Not sure why I got it in here, I suppose I thought I had 42% vs his potting range.. Probably don't.

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $192.97
SB: $155.39
Hero (BB): $104.16
UTG: $98.00
MP: $185.34
CO: $86.48

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has A A 8 7

fold, fold, CO raises to $3.00, BTN calls $3.00, fold, Hero raises to $12.50, CO calls $9.50, BTN calls $9.50

Flop: ($38.00, 3 players) 2 Q K
Hero checks, CO bets $36.29, fold, Hero raises to $91.66 and is all-in, CO calls $37.69 and is all-in

Turn: ($185.96, 2 players) 8

River: ($185.96, 2 players) J

Spoiler:
Hero shows A A 8 7 (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 66%, Flop 25%, Turn 17%)
CO shows 5 K Q T (Two Pair, Kings and Queens) (Pre 34%, Flop 75%, Turn 82%)
CO wins $183.16


Not sure if I like the 3bet pre either. It's marginal, but probably better to flat.

Hand2: I think the 4bet is bad here. You are oop with AA-crap, even if you flat is to cbet-steal dry flops or to set mining imo. Anyway on that kind of flops with 2 4bet-callers is a snap give up.

Hand3: here the 3bet is better, but still I think you overplay AAs postflop. OOp I prefer b/f here, or check and see the action, but he bet big with halfstack behind, I wouldn't shove.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-10-2013 , 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckendry
Feels like I cannot win. I suppose this is what I signed up for.. This happens to be biggest losing week of all-time since I started playing poker 3 years ago. Sure, I'm not playing great, but the situational variance is absolutely out of control. I'm getting my ass handed to me every single hand. I've been complaining a bunch in this thread.. I'll try to avoid posting cooler after cooler and focus on making the best decisions in marginal spots..
I'm usually not in the "take some time off" crowd, but when I find myself talking like you here it is absolutely the best thing to do. When I get that "I cannot win" speech going in my head it tends to manifest itself at the tables. Take a day off and don't even think about poker. Stay off 2p2, don't look at games on Stars, don't review hands, don't go on training sites, don't talk poker to anyone. Just give yourself one day completely free of poker.

Quote:
PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $63.66
CO: $82.51
Hero (BTN): $168.77
SB: $316.45
BB: $91.06

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has T A 3 8

UTG calls $1.00, fold, Hero raises to $4.00, SB raises to $14.00, BB calls $13.00, fold, Hero calls $10.00

Flop: ($43.00, 3 players) A 3 6
SB bets $39.00, fold, Hero calls $39.00

Turn: ($121.00, 2 players) 5
SB checks, Hero bets $70.00, SB raises to $263.45 and is all-in, fold

Spoiler:
SB wins $258.20


Not sure what to do here. Villain has 4% 3bet, so his range is AA heavy. When he pots the flop should I just muck? AP he obviously has the nut flush. I feel gross here, is it just a muck on the flop?
I don't see a reason to bet the turn here. The only worse hand that will call you is AA, but there is only one combo of that left. There are very few river cards that hurt our hand. If you want to try to get one street of value against him just wait til the river. People tend to be much happier calling light on the river instead of the turn because they know they wont have to face any more bets. Check behind turn, if he bets the river we can call, if he checks we make a value bet. Costs us the same as a turn bet, but we're facing a much weaker range when called.

Hand 2 is definitely a bet/fold on the river vs a 60/4, nh

Quote:
Hand 3:

Villain is short-stacking reg, low flop cbet%..

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $117.24
MP: $101.26
CO: $68.67
BTN: $102.43
Hero (SB): $187.75
BB: $118.20

Hero posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has A A 9 A

fold, MP calls $1.00, CO raises to $3.00, fold, Hero calls $2.50, fold, MP calls $2.00

Flop: ($10.00, 3 players) 8 2 8
Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks

Turn: ($10.00, 3 players) Q
Hero bets $5.50, fold, CO calls $5.50

River: ($21.00, 2 players) 5
Hero bets $13.50, CO raises to $60.17 and is all-in, fold

Spoiler:
CO wins $45.84


Anyone go for value on the river vs KK/curious AQ?
I'd prefer a check/call on the river. Every draw missed, JT9, spades, diamonds, so he might feel obligated to bluff if he missed. If we check we're a little underrepped and look like we might have just missed a draw as well. Plus I think if we check to him here he'll bet KK or AQ more often than he would call when we bet.

I'm pretty new to PLO, but I feel like you're getting yourself in trouble by bloating the pot in situations where you'll have to fold a lot. I'll try to skim through the thread and find some hand examples later.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-10-2013 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trob888
I'm usually not in the "take some time off" crowd, but when I find myself talking like you here it is absolutely the best thing to do. When I get that "I cannot win" speech going in my head it tends to manifest itself at the tables. Take a day off and don't even think about poker. Stay off 2p2, don't look at games on Stars, don't review hands, don't go on training sites, don't talk poker to anyone. Just give yourself one day completely free of poker.


I don't see a reason to bet the turn here. The only worse hand that will call you is AA, but there is only one combo of that left. There are very few river cards that hurt our hand. If you want to try to get one street of value against him just wait til the river. People tend to be much happier calling light on the river instead of the turn because they know they wont have to face any more bets. Check behind turn, if he bets the river we can call, if he checks we make a value bet. Costs us the same as a turn bet, but we're facing a much weaker range when called.

Hand 2 is definitely a bet/fold on the river vs a 60/4, nh


I'd prefer a check/call on the river. Every draw missed, JT9, spades, diamonds, so he might feel obligated to bluff if he missed. If we check we're a little underrepped and look like we might have just missed a draw as well. Plus I think if we check to him here he'll bet KK or AQ more often than he would call when we bet.

I'm pretty new to PLO, but I feel like you're getting yourself in trouble by bloating the pot in situations where you'll have to fold a lot. I'll try to skim through the thread and find some hand examples later.
You just said everything I had in my mind about taking time off and about the hands. Nice inputs when your new to PLO.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-10-2013 , 08:36 PM
I'm not too keen on taking time off, but it's gotta be the best play. I was about to force myself to play a session without much motivation what-so-ever. I'll just enjoy myself in Banff for a couple days and attempt to crush volume later on in the month

Thanks for the input above guys. I agree with some stuff, dont agree with other stuff. Because some of the hands are labeled differently, I am too lazy to respond to everything. Although I thought the the 4bet with dry AA was completely standard for me <150bb deep. I'd be 4betting KK9Tss, KK26ds, AKQJds/AKJTds too.. Perhaps this is a leak.

For the hand where I flopped 2pair+fd, the bet on the turn isn't good. Disgusting as it sounds.. I should actually fold the flop. The villain in hand is a bad loose/passive reg with <50% cbet. He said he had AAA+NFD in the chat. Id expect AA/AKKdd when he cbets the flop with ridiculous sizing. I tend to make more mistakes in hands where I've already made a mistake. This should be quite evident from my HHs

Anywho, no grinding today.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-11-2013 , 01:03 PM
PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $63.66
CO: $82.51
Hero (BTN): $168.77
SB: $316.45
BB: $91.06

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has T A 3 8

UTG calls $1.00, fold, Hero raises to $4.00, SB raises to $14.00, BB calls $13.00, fold, Hero calls $10.00

Flop: ($43.00, 3 players) A 3 6
SB bets $39.00, fold, Hero calls $39.00

Turn: ($121.00, 2 players) 5
SB checks, Hero bets $70.00, SB raises to $263.45 and is all-in, fold

I strongly disagree with this hand. I think its a bet call on the turn vs the person u described, or check back, and honestly dont valuebet river if its a blank, bc u cant have many bluffs in your range, I dont think he calls worse river, unless you want to bet call river bc he has the blocker here a lot. In my experience a cjam here is not nut fl unless theres meta and hes trying to level you. Its usually aa w blocker, or 0 percent akjq for ex w nut blocker, now if he is 3b 16% for ex, he has much more axxx suited to A, but this guy 3bs 4% he has more AAxx more ABBB, these hands are strong enough on their own, they dont need to be suited to the A to 3b for him. Its possible he is doing this w top set sometimes better fl than urs like k q hi, bc people do stupid stuff like that sometimes, but I think in general this is a semi bluff w AAxx vs a tag, if he had the nut fl, he would just bet this turn, no reason to cr, you are going to be checking back way too often here with your range for him to check.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-11-2013 , 01:05 PM
O yeah and also he potted the flop, this is not the nut fd imo. def bet call turn, missed that. Pot flop imo is usually the nut blocker tho setting up, bc they think thats how you rep it at these stakes.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-11-2013 , 05:20 PM
AA87 on KQ2 where you block the NFD has to be a fold right? Can't see any possible hand that villain raise/calls preflop that you would be beating here.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-12-2013 , 08:29 AM


Isn't this just a fold pre-flop vs a 4% 3bettor? The only thing we have going for us is the nut flush draw. Even hitting something like J9 sucks for us, because villain will be weighted to broadways, which have us dominated.

Agree with babyjesus about the turn though... from a nitty player the Ad blocker is much more likely than him actually having the flush here (which would usually keep betting imo). It looks like the turn came a 3 flush so he didn't want to keep betting because worse wasn't calling, so he checked, then you bet and he got confused and just shipped it figuring if he c/c'd it'd look exactly like what he had, you couldn't have the nut flush, and he had outs vs a flush anyway if you did call.

Last edited by equiboy; 03-12-2013 at 08:35 AM.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-12-2013 , 08:33 AM
you really made a screenshot?
You can quote a post, theres a button for that in every post. Thats way faster than making a screenshot.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-12-2013 , 08:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreatief
you really made a screenshot?
You can quote a post, theres a button for that in every post. Thats way faster than making a screenshot.
It took about 5 seconds to take the screenshot using "sharex". You should probably check it out if it takes you THAT long yourself to take screenshots. :|
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-12-2013 , 08:47 AM
It was no offense. sorry.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-14-2013 , 02:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by equiboy


Isn't this just a fold pre-flop vs a 4% 3bettor? The only thing we have going for us is the nut flush draw. Even hitting something like J9 sucks for us, because villain will be weighted to broadways, which have us dominated.

Agree with babyjesus about the turn though... from a nitty player the Ad blocker is much more likely than him actually having the flush here (which would usually keep betting imo). It looks like the turn came a 3 flush so he didn't want to keep betting because worse wasn't calling, so he checked, then you bet and he got confused and just shipped it figuring if he c/c'd it'd look exactly like what he had, you couldn't have the nut flush, and he had outs vs a flush anyway if you did call.
preflop I think we can call vs a non-thinking losing reg with <50% cbet.

I'm still not convinced villain is c/r jamming as a bluff or semi-bluff hoping I fold out a medium/high flush getting 6:1. I mean, he's 3betting from the sb with a super tight range, he has so few A*** combos without a suited ace. The only Ad that makes sense is AA**ss which is almost always going to call, not jam.



Today was the first day of grinding in awhile. I came back fresh and played well... and continued losing money



Few spots..

Hand 1:

Villain is aggro reg with spewy tendencies..

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (SB): $127.50
BB: $459.98
BTN: $67.63

Hero posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has T T Q A

fold, Hero raises to $3.00, BB calls $2.00

Flop: ($6.00, 2 players) K A A
Hero bets $3.00, BB raises to $10.00, Hero calls $7.00

Turn: ($26.00, 2 players) K
Hero checks, BB bets $15.00, Hero calls $15.00

River: ($56.00, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BB bets $32.00, Hero calls $32.00

Spoiler:
BB shows 8 5 J A (Full House, Aces full of Jacks) (Pre 35%, Flop 35%, Turn 23%)
Hero mucks T T Q A (Straight, Ace High) (Pre 65%, Flop 65%, Turn 78%)
BB wins $118.50


Anyone fold river? Not sure if he's ever going to triple off with his air.. :\

Hand 2:

Villain is good reg, got owned here >.<

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $179.77
UTG: $208.26
Hero (CO): $106.87
BTN: $53.73
SB: $65.46

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has A 6 3 A

UTG raises to $3.50, Hero raises to $12.00, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $8.50

Flop: ($25.50, 2 players) K 6 Q
UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($25.50, 2 players) 3
UTG checks, Hero bets $17.00, UTG raises to $75.35, Hero raises to $94.87 and is all-in, UTG calls $19.52

River: ($215.24, 2 players) T

Spoiler:
UTG shows J Q 5 Q (Three of a Kind, Queens) (Pre 35%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
Hero shows A 6 3 A (Two Pair, Sixes and Threes) (Pre 65%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
UTG wins $212.44


Pretty sure I don't have the ~36% equity here.. He's got ~60-70% KQ/KK/QQ and ~30-40% combo draws.. b/f seems best
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-14-2013 , 05:54 AM
hand 1 i think i 3b flop. as played river is kinda close. you beat only his air. doubt he bets anything lower than a FH (i'd make a decision based on street by street agg factor, flop raise % etc )

hand 2 b/f flop. as played folding turn (am i too weak ? :-s)
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-14-2013 , 07:19 PM
Nah, I think b/f on hand 2 is the best play.. Tis not weak.



Just played a couple sessions that went horrible. I seem to be running out of money and never running into positive variance. This is becoming a problem >.<



I'll post some of the hands I marked that looked marginal/bad:

Hand 1:

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $109.38
Hero (UTG): $100.00
MP: $40.22
CO: $127.20
BTN: $135.73
SB: $144.00

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has A Q K Q

Hero raises to $3.00, MP calls $3.00, CO raises to $11.00, BTN calls $11.00, SB calls $10.50, fold, Hero calls $8.00, MP calls $8.00

Flop: ($56.00, 5 players) 3 5 T
SB bets $53.48, fold, MP calls $29.22 and is all-in, fold, fold

Turn: ($114.44, 2 players) T

River: ($114.44, 2 players) J

Spoiler:
SB shows 4 Q 3 5 (Two Pair, Tens and Fives) (Pre 33%, Flop 53%, Turn 72%)
MP shows 7 K 3 8 (Two Pair, Tens and Threes) (Pre 67%, Flop 47%, Turn 28%)
SB wins $111.64


The villain that 3bet is 70/50/33.33 over 10 hands.. no showdown yet.

Other 2 players are fish.

Does anyone just 4bet ship pre with $40 in the middle? Or is it better to see a flop with this hand vs 2 fish and one possible aggro fish?

Hand 2:

Villain is 20/16/5, opens 26% in sb.. 70% flop cbet, 55% turn cbet..

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $67.21
SB: $181.43
Hero (BB): $104.16
UTG: $82.00

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has 3 8 6 A

fold, fold, SB raises to $3.00, Hero calls $2.00

Flop: ($6.00, 2 players) 5 A 6
SB bets $5.00, Hero calls $5.00

Turn: ($16.00, 2 players) T
SB bets $11.00, Hero calls $11.00

River: ($38.00, 2 players) 6
SB bets $27.00, Hero calls $27.00

Spoiler:
SB shows A Q 4 A (Full House, Aces full of Sixes) (Pre 66%, Flop 95%, Turn 100%)
Hero mucks 3 8 6 A (Full House, Sixes full of Aces) (Pre 34%, Flop 5%, Turn 0%)
SB wins $90.50


Anyone fold the turn or river? I think turn is close, river should be a fold. His sizing basically says he has TT or AA. I called because I thought maybe a small chance in BvB he would be more barrelly. Although, I never seem to be right in these spots on the river.

Hand 3:

Both villain are fish

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $181.02
Hero (MP): $100.00
CO: $47.07
BTN: $402.53
SB: $97.50
BB: $100.00

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has J 8 Q 9

fold, Hero raises to $3.00, CO calls $3.00, BTN calls $3.00, SB calls $2.50, fold

Flop: ($13.00, 4 players) 5 T 7
SB checks, Hero bets $10.00, CO calls $10.00, fold, SB raises to $51.00, Hero raises to $97.00 and is all-in, CO calls $34.07 and is all-in, SB calls $43.50 and is all-in

Turn: ($246.07, 3 players) 8

River: ($246.07, 3 players) 9

Spoiler:
SB shows 5 K J 7 (Flush, King High) (Pre 43%, Flop 69%, Turn 28%)
Hero shows J 8 Q 9 (Flush, Queen High) (Pre 26%, Flop 20%, Turn 38%)
CO shows 4 5 9 J (Straight, Jack High) (Pre 30%, Flop 11%, Turn 35%)
SB wins $243.27


Anyone fold flop? I think its pretty close

Hand 4:

SB is whale, BB is aggro reg, 8% 3bet in blinds, 70% flop cbet, 65% turn agg freq..

PokerStars - $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $353.49
MP: $39.74
CO: $103.21
Hero (BTN): $102.28
SB: $176.27
BB: $117.52

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has K T 9 Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.50, SB calls $2.00, BB raises to $10.00, Hero calls $7.50, SB calls $7.50

Flop: ($30.00, 3 players) 2 7 8
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($30.00, 3 players) K
SB checks, BB bets $20.00, Hero raises to $88.65, SB raises to $166.27 and is all-in, fold, Hero calls $3.63 and is all-in

River: ($234.56, 2 players) 9

Spoiler:
SB shows 8 Q 8 4 (Three of a Kind, Eights) (Pre 45%, Flop 84%, Turn 85%)
Hero shows K T 9 Q (Two Pair, Kings and Nines) (Pre 55%, Flop 16%, Turn 15%)
SB wins $231.76


I like my play here, BB has so many 1-pair hands that will fold to my shove and sb so rarely checks a monster twice.

Had a couple coolers and lotssss of b/f's on the flop in SRP vs players with <10% c/r OTF.


Good news: PT4 came out for mac. This means I improve the info I get in the HUD, and I win $80 from roomies that bet against it coming out before July
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-14-2013 , 10:42 PM
Hand 1
I lean more towards 4betting than calling. Im making an assumption that CO that 3bets is a fish who played 7/10 hands at the table and its the second time he 3bets in a short period of time, which leads me to belive hes out of line more often then not. I also think 4betting simplyfies the way you can play your hand. For example this flop is a spot where you can make incorrect folds, along with boards where you flop naked flushdraws or OESD+pair where you might think you have to fold due to the action and the pot being 5way. 4betting also might push out 1-3 players and I rather be 30-40% favorite 3way then 20-25% 5way.

In short, this hand is too strong to just flat preflop and I rather do it with hands like AJTxss, 9876r or 8855.

Hand 2
Standard, and you shouldnt think about folding ever. Im sure he opens alot of rundowns, suited pairs and Axxx that will problably 3barrel here if hes capable of that. WP.

Hand 3
I think its fine to get it in here. CO clearly has a weak range as he flats your cbet with that stack size. SB raise is strong but your still doing good vs many hands he c/r. I think very often you will see SB have set or wrap+fd and CO with weak flushdraws/top pair.

Hand 4
I would problably bet flop with the intention to fold to a raise. As played, I like your turn play, SB rarely checks monsters twice and BB doesnt connect very well with this board and what does he bet turn that he couldnt cbet flop with? Maybe KK but you have blocker so theres not too many combos of hands he will call your raise with. Bet flop, WP turn.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-14-2013 , 11:29 PM
wtf are with those preflop hands in Hand1... I wouldn't even expect to see those playing lollivePLO.

I think you played all those hands fine except maybe hand2 river, I freaking hate that spot and never have any clue what to do.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-16-2013 , 05:52 AM
Viktor/Aesah-- Yeah Hand 1 is really interesting..

One downside you didn't mention is that we fold out the fish whom will get it in on flops with 20-25% equity vs our hand. (worse pair+fd/naked fd), so we don't really want to push out the fish that often. Our flop plays so easily and well multi-way..

I've spent a bunch of time thinking about it (albeit, half of it stoned) and I agree that 4betting is best.. It would be interesting to solve for the "Break-even" 3bet % for the maniac to make 3betting less +EV then flatting. At 5% its obv bad, and at 40% its obv good. If were thinking the maniac is 15%, is it worth it? I think its probably close to 15%. I haven't done any math.. but I may tackle that problem sometime later this month. Assigning variables/solving will be challenging. If anyone wants to take a crack at it before I do, feel free!

Hand 2 river seems like a such a fold vs nits. Who really triples off on this card? Even though its probably good because I'm capped as hell, players still don't do it.. I wanted to fold in game. But, we only have to be good ~28% for it to be alright, so I cringe-called.

-------


I just got home from Banff today following my little week long adventure. Had a blast, but also happy to be back in Whistler. Spending time with Michelle was awesome, and hopefully we'll meet up in the future at some point in 4+ months.

As for poker/goals, I'm in a bit of trouble.. I'm about 6k behind pace for my volume goal this month and 1 pull-up behind pull-up pace (1/3-- which means I'm way behind). I need to average ~2k hands/day for the rest of the month with 2 travel days, or ~2.27k/day. To reach the pull-up goal I'm committing to 4 days on, 1 day off until the end of the month and going hard every time doing 5-6 sets of 1-2 exercises.

I'm basically going to have to free up a bunch of time to do this. Fortunately, skiing conditions have become sub-par, so skiing won't be able to distract me as much. Girls are less of a distraction now, too. To further conserve time, I will cook/read less and watch fewer movies. Anywho- expect to see more graphs and less hand analysis in the coming weeks.. lockdown.

Last edited by tmckendry; 03-16-2013 at 05:58 AM.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-16-2013 , 11:54 AM
I admire your work ethic. But remember, life EV and poker EV are directly correlated. If you make too many life EV scarifices, it's going to show up in your poker results. No sense overdoing it the rest of this month if it means you're going to start next month burnt out. The game never ends. Nothing gets wiped clean with the turn of a page on the calendar.

I guess that's just the long way of saying don't stress out too much over volume goals
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote
03-16-2013 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trob888
I admire your work ethic. But remember, life EV and poker EV are directly correlated. If you make too many life EV scarifices, it's going to show up in your poker results. No sense overdoing it the rest of this month if it means you're going to start next month burnt out. The game never ends. Nothing gets wiped clean with the turn of a page on the calendar.

I guess that's just the long way of saying don't stress out too much over volume goals
Normally wouldn't.. $170+pride on line though.. But yeah, ^ good advice.
Crushing PLO (PLO5--&gt;PLO200) Quote

      
m