man you shoulda snap called that free coaching session from brokenstars in a heartbeat. gotta be the most -EV play in this thread so far.

It sounds like you don't understand the role of skill in poker and how that affects results over different periods of time. Maybe if you educate yourself about this you will be more motivated to learn how to make better decisions when you play


would you "really like to" or do you really want to? it sounds like you enjoy losing a fair amount.
why do you want to change and win? are you sure that wouldn't take the enjoyment out of playing for you?

OK...that sounds like "If do heroin like Keith Richards I'll eventually be as good at playing guitar/famous/rich as Keith Richards"...erm...no. That's not how it works.

And for every Polk out there there are several thousand people who lost it all (or where else do you think the money came from that he won?). Particularly considering that you don't seem to be any good at the games you play. You say you are a gambler - which pretty much means you do not have the stamina to sit down and study poker theory for 8 hours straight every day for a couple of months.
No - a losing streak of 50k over 10 years is not a 'downswing'. That's someone who is just no good at the game and not even trying to get better...and the games have been getting a lot tougher since the likes of him made their money so your chances are even less.

Quit poker. Pay off your debt. Never touch cards (for money) again.
Best advice anyone can give you (not that you'll heed it...but maybe you'll look at back on it when you're 100k in the hole)

well lets start paddling out together then!

Not sure why I can't receive private messages. I will try to look into that. (I don't see like a settings tab or anything)



And you are correct about playing the lower levels. I have been playing primarily $200NL on line and $300NL live for the better part of the decade. Now I am literally playing for pennies. It's tough to stay focused, but I think its what I have to do if I am ever going to turn my game around. What better time to start at the bottom than now?

I didn't snap decline. I don't have a skype account, and I wasn't playing cash at that point in the night. Had I not already started to two SNG's and the MTT I would have at least tried to take him up on his offer. Plus I offered to set a date and make a plan for a session. I have a real job, I'm not just some out of work college student. I have responsibilities, not the least of which is going to bed on time so I can be up at 5 am. Excuse me for not wanting to drop everything I was doing do a coaching session from someone who, lets face it, I don't know from Adam. I mean I am sure he had noble intentions and wasn't going to waste my time. the fact was I was already in the middle of SNG's, didn't have a Skype account, and was about 30 minutes or less away from going to sleep. I mean if that means I'm not dedicated enough, or I'm not eager enough to learn, than so be it....

Some were winning hours, some were losing hours. I win all the time, I just never win more than I lose over the course of a month. But that's neither here nor there. Yes, up to this point I have been a losing player. The whole reason I am here is because I want to become a winning player. The general consensus seem to be that that is impossible (for me.) But I don't have any illusions of why I am losing. Do I run bad, absolutely. Do I get it in good and get sucked out on, all the time. But who doesn't? My issue is skill based. Actually I think more than anything my issue is patience and discipline based. I know what I am supposed to do, I just often don't have to will to do it. That is what I am trying to change!

OutlawLuck on Global (but I am busto on there)

xOutlawLuckx on WPN

If it wasn't for the lack of Skype, the fact that was already in the MTT and 2 SNG's, and the fact that I needed to go to bed as soon as I was done on those tables, I would have!

Quick suggestion: why do you need to multitable given that you know you are a losing player? Fire up a couple $10 tournaments, put baseball on TV, open up a cold beer and enjoy yourself. Or, if you want to be more focused about poker, just play those same 2 tournaments (without the beer and TV) and really think through your decisions.
Guys who play 12 tables are typically already successful winning players who have their hand ranges and basic decisions down and can therefore run on autopilot. You, on the other hand, need to work on your fundamentals and improve, so it is better to play less tables, but play better.

No, I don't enjoy losing. It's not fun to lose. But beyond that, I don't play poker for fun. I play for the love of the game, and I play to win money (which obviously, for online poker has never actually worked. I do win live from time to time. Maybe 40-50% of the time)

What I mean't was, isn't this the way your supposed to make it in poker? Start at the micros and grind your way up?

So after the last two sessions went so pourly, I decided to do 2 things. 1) I dropped down to the $0.01/$0.02 level. $2NL seems like such an impossible game to take seriously, but If I am serious about improving, I guess there is no better place to start than at the bottom. 2) was that I dropped back down to just 4 tabling. Maybe once I get a 2nd monitor I will jump back up to more tables, but right now, I really don't feel comfortable having any tables not in view at all times, and with my current monitor that means 4 is the max I can play.

So basically this was a break even night. +$0.16. I guess it's better than a loss. That's alright. This is going to be a very slow journey. Just gotta take it a day at a time. It will probably be Sunday before I will be able to play again, so maybe a couple of days off will do me some good.

I think you are misunderstanding how winning and losing player is defined. When I say that you've played all your hrs as a losing player, I don't mean you've never won a hand, or a session or a few sessions. I mean overall you are losing. Meaning the longer you play the more you will lose.

Just like at a casino anyone can get lucky and win at roulette. But everyone will be a losing player at it.

There will always be excuses for why you didn't do this or that. The day you stop making them if ever is the day you might notice that your luck starts changing.

The fact that you prioritized 2 sngs and an mtt as the excuse for why you wouldn't take free coaching just adds to my point.

Like if I was an aspiring boxer and Floyd Mayweather offered me free lessons, I wouldn't be like, "Man I would totally take you up on that if only I wasn't already in the middle of jump roping."

Brokenstars is a successful midstakes player as far as I know, not sure it's fair to equate him to the greatest most well-known competitor of his generation. OP mentioned he's new to the site, isn't it safe to assume he's never heard of Brokenstars before?

If I was I was trying to play online instead of live and I was in the middle of a 3 way and brokenstars offered me free coaching now or never I’d take him up on it and tell the women to wait.

That's ridiculous. I'd ask him to join first.

Ok well, I would like to win between 1 and 2 buy-in a day. This is just a goal, not necessarily achievable with my current mindset, but a goal none the less. Now if I were only playing 1 table I would have to double or triple up to make that happen. Certainly a possibility, but as I have learned, shooting for that is a quick trip to either going big or going home. So by playing 4 tables, it limits how much risk I need to play. Plus, I may be card dead on a single table, but running hot on another, so it balances out. Like last night. I was up on 2 tables, and down on 2 others, so I broke even for the day. Had I only played 2 tables, or one table, and it was one of the losing sessions, than I would have put up a red number for the day. Just trying to minimize variance, or more importantly, minimize the effects of variance. If I played 1 table, 4 days in a row, and had 2 losing sessions in a row (on top of the 2 losing sessions I had at $5NL) I am going to be in just that much worse of a frame of mind wen I move into the next game. By doing this, hopefully I can keep my head right and prevent myself from going on tilt.

This has been easily one of my biggest issues with the game. Not staying focused, getting frustrated, getting board, whatever. I stay much more engaged multi-tabling than I do playing a single table. And honestly, I feel like I play better multi-tabling. If I am only single tabling and I catch a big hand, I am going to go for it (even if I know I should fold) if I have a big draw, I am going to call off my stack and try to chase. Multi-tabling I am more disciplined and can make the fold easier. I still struggle with not folding often enough, but I am trying to work on that.

I didn't prioritize, I was already mid way throw these games when I saw his offer of coaching. He said, had to be cash. Well I wasn't playing cash. And one thing we can all agree on, it's definitely -EV to just sit out of 2 Sit N Go's and an MTT that you've already bought into....

So you have a $40k debt and you're worried about a few microstakes SNG's while getting a chance to get coaching that easily could charge 3 figures/hour for free.

Like you said, what good is $50 going to do for you?

You say it yourself: you're a gambling addict. But you still want to play and create even more debt. Stop playing. Any sort of gambling isn't for you.

As far as paying down my debt in the short term. $50 won't do me any good. But as far as keeping me in a game, this $50 will probably be the most important amount of money I will ever have.

I think a lot of people on here mistake my issue for a lack of skill or a lack of knowledge. It's not. It's a lack of patience and a lack of discipline. I know what I am supposed to do, but I am just so conditioned to do the wrong thing that often times I do it without even thinking about it. I am trying to change that.

I've studied this game for 15 years now, I have played online for 10. All the training in the world focuses on how to win the most money possible. Very little focuses on how to not lose money. I know what I have to do, and I am trying to hard to do it. Do I expect to make the change overnight? No I don't, but do I expect to eventually be a winning poker player? Yes I do. Do I expect to be able to move up the stakes, absolutely. How long will it take? I don't know. I'd like to think that by this time next year I will be playing $200 or $500 NL, but honestly I am more concerned with just building the bankroll and moving up than how quickly I do it. If it takes me 10 years, that's better than not at all. Obviously doing things the way I have been doing it the last 10 years hasn't worked. So I have humbled myself and I am trying to start and the bottom and build it up one buy-in at a time, exactly the way you are supposed to.

Actually, I am trying to maintain my current bankroll, first and foremost, and grow my bankroll in the future once I've fixed these leaks. While I do want to continue to play, but I do not want to create anymore debt. I don't want to make any more deposits (honestly I am at a point where really, I can't. I just can't. I can't keep throwing money away like that)

And in all honesty. Even though I totally fit the criteria. I do not think I am a gambling addict, I just think I am a losing poker player. Poker players lose over the long term because they haven't improved there game. Gambling addicts lose over the long term because they are risking more and more and more in search of that gamblers high. I don't do that.

Hey man just wanted to chime in. You came to this forum not looking for advice about stopping to play, but rather continuing your goals for poker. You can't blame us for telling you stop playing - you've lost too much money than you can afford and should be focused on paying off your debts, and getting rid of your bad habits (poker). But I know you're not gonna stop playing, at least not yet. So I'll give you some poker-related advice.

The way you're approaching the game is a losing one – you're looking to make $, rather than to get better. The only way you can become a winning player is to lose the mentality of trying to make money, and instead try to make the most +EV decisions in the long run. You need to be diligent about reviewing hands. I mean 3-4 hands in depth AT LEAST from every session. You should be posting on here and asking users for feedback. Approach the game with intellectual curiosity, rather than emotional dependency. This practice of constant review and improvement is a way to build sustainable success in the long run. You're treating this last $50 as though your life depends on it, which isn't gonna help you win. Emotional attachment to money in poker will be your greatest downfall.

Someone once told me stupidity is defined as repeating the same mistakes over and over. You are finally practicing bankroll management which is a good first step. But go further. Buy a sub to a training site. Take studying seriously. Stop focusing on what's in your bankroll. Review hands from every session. Try to start actually improving your skills rather than just playing hoping hoping and hoping your bankroll will grow because in the long run it won't without a ton of skill improvement. Send brokenstars a PM asking very nicely if he's still willing to give you a free coaching session. You won't profit in poker by getting Aces vs Kings and running well (you'll be on the flip side of that coin just as often in the long run). You profit by making plays that other people aren't and having a superior strategy.

It's not as hard as you think it is to become a winning player. But as others have mentioned, you need to put in the work. And that means away from the table. Don't repeat the same pattern and mindset of losing. If you can't enact that level of discipline to get yourself studying, you will continue to lose. Give yourself a kick in the ass and change your whole mindset. It's a fresh start. The 50k is in the past so stop trying to win it back. Start trying to improve.