So ive just started to seriously and responsibly build a bankroll in 6 max micros. Im up to nearly 200$ on Ignition. I only have played about 15,000 hands but my BB/100 and EV seem to be both steadily increasing. Have I really beaten these stakes? Would it be a mistake to move to 10NL?


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Edit: Please bear with me as I learn how to upload these HM2 images

Nevermind. Cant seem to get the stats formatted correctly. Im an idiot. But here are some relevant stats. I know CBET percentage is a bit antiquated, but it seems to work brilliantly in 5NL zone.

BB/100-11
agg-1.95
VPIP/PFR- 23/17
3bet%-9
WTSD-31
WSD-47
FLOP cbet-74
Flop called Cbet-51

Im very confused about the WTSD and WSD stats and how they correlate. Seem to be 1k-2k hand sessions winning/losing with those numbers all over the place. I will say that I started at the regular tables and was often tagged by my HUD as a LAG. My AGG has skyrocketed since moving to zoom.

About cbet stats, unfortunately I can´t play like that anymore (pokerstars).

Those games are anonymous right?

About agg, cbet, wtsd and wsd, you might be going to showdown with too many marginal hands, giving up on the aggression too much on later streets, cbetting with too many middle strength hands without considering board texture and yours/villain´s range, wrong sizings etc. But no need to change if it works, build a reasonable sample size before adjusting anything.

Gl

In my previous post I said that my Hud frequently used to label me as a LAG, I meant to say Loose passive. In regular cash my vpip was 23/14 but in zoom its 24/20. I stopped calling almost all 3 bets, I started 4-betting most of the hands I used to call. I also pretty much stopped limping behind as well.

I've played poker for a long time and never could bother myself to get into the analytics. What an idiot I was. It's amazing how my live poker buddy's ridicule me for not limping out of the small blind every sing time. Honestly, if I dont have at least Q7, I just fold the small blind, even if it means walking BB.

Thanks for the reply Faz. Yes ignition is anonymous. It makes it easier to fire those C-bets and 3-bets much wider. I do need to tighten my C-betting range however. I wonder if it would be worth leaving the table and rejoining once I get to 200BB or so. People seem to call more at that point. I dont know if it's from the chip count specifically, or just the fact that I have a lot of chips.

About calling 3bets, if you´re deep (effective stacks), then it might be profitable to play some speculative hands and even setmining. Yes, being loose and passive is not profitable, even at the microstakes. Even if people adjust vs you the wrong way, rake will eat you alive due to playing so many hands.

Btw, about playing 200bb or more, it really depends on the effective stacks. It might be better to learn how to play deep, as rake is usually capped and you can boost your wr dramatically if pool is weak playing deepstacked. I still remember the golden days at stars when we were able to buy in 250 bbs at 2nl and 5nl. Just make sure you really learn, as losing may also destroy the wr.

Gl

Your sample size is much too small to conclude anything. However that doesn't mean you shouldn't move up IF your bankroll is large enough for the next level. That said 10nl isn't even an option so your next jump from 5nl is 25nl. I wouldn't recommend that on a $200 bankroll.

Don't get so wrapped up in your stats. Zone is a bit different of an animal. Your goal, in my opinion, is the build your strategy based on player pool tendencies. It takes time to build a large enough hand sample to conclude what ranges people are playing from specific positions, what range of hands they 3bet/4bet with etc. Focus on developing a strategy and go from there to find improvements based off how the pool reacts in certain situations. This is a bit different than playing on Stars or ACR where you can track stats on individual players and adjust to each specific opponent.

Yes, I agree. I am much more comfortable with a GTO mentality than trying to exploit. My biggest problem, I think, at the beginning was calling off massive random raises without the nuts. I'm learning to give credit to these type of donks much more. I've been trying to sure up my preflop game so that I don't have as many tough decisions post-flop. Any pointers on bet sizing? Are their stats for this on HM2? It seems as if the player pool reacts very similarly to anything in the range of 40-70% I'm always in the mindset of 50-100% but it just seems strange to raise .3 on the flop and then come back with a $1 on the turn. Do most fish calculate pot odds? Or is there something psychological about calling that turn c-bet for .3-.50, and then turning around having to call $1-1.5 on the turn. Maybe it would be better as a bluff than as a valuebet, although that seems counterproductive. I guess I have a lot of studying to do, but if anyone has any thoughts Id appreciate it.

Make a 50-100k sample then think about moving up(taking shots), until your BR allows you to play NL25.

That's kind of what I was asking though. I have actually heard 20. Which as of 5 minutes ago, I hit on the number for .5/.10. Why 25 specifically? Wouldn't it vary based on standard deviation, bb/100, general intelligence, temperament etc. For instance, should a person who is 1bb/hr and finally makes 250$ after a year or two move up at all? Or more generally, if it takes 100k hands to double your money, common sense would dictate you shouldn't move up at all.

I guess I'm really asking 3 things. On what are these pillars of bankroll manage and variance 25uy ins/100 bb. I ask not to be a smartass or contrarian, but variance calculators beg to differ.

I wouldn't even be thinking in terms of GTO at 5nl and especially not on Ignition. Be exploitable. Part of GTO versus an exploitable strategy requires playing with known opponents and playing against people who are able to exploit your tendencies and vice versa. You don't have that dynamic here and your opponents aren't thinking on that level. That's not to say you can't apply GTO principles to your game. As a general rule of thumb big bets in Zone are very strong hands. However sometimes those big bets will make no sense. If you're decent at hand reading these spots will become apparent and if you have one of your better bluff catchers then yes, by all means call. Your best approach is to play straight forward poker, don't call huge bets/raises without a good reason to do so and value bet the **** out of these calling stations.

I know your question about 1bb/hr is hypothetical but if someone at 5nl is only winning at 1bb/hr (which is less than .5bb/100) then no they should not move up. That person should find the holes in their game and fix them before moving up. I would recommend an aggressive bankroll strategy early on because you want to get out of the micros ASAP because the rake is extremely high. I would build your roll to $400-$500 before taking a few shots at 25nl. Games get much better later in the week (closer to the weekend) and those are the days I would take my shots. If you play Monday or Tuesday the field is more reg heavy. On the weekend it's like the recs are begging you to take their money. They will literally hand it over.

stay away from zone, rigged as fk.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...-year-1728791/ this is my br strategy. I think this is a good system to follow and at the same time you have to put in a lot of volume to the point you will be ready for the next limits as you move up in stakes more then other players that move up to fast. Some do like 20-40 buyins before they move up. But I like 50 cause its something you can't just do in a few days have to put in some time to profit that much and you will be a better player at the lower limits without risking to much.

People have told me my br strategy will take to long and its a dumb strategy that its a waste of time and take years to do. It irritates me cause they have never tried doing it. So I bet one of my skeptical friends that I can do it in a year. He thinks it will take 2 or 3 years and we will see. When I did it before it did take me around 2 years but I wasn't doing BR challenge and I was more of a part time player slowly putting in more volume and hrs to work my way to full time player.

I am already up to 20nl in less then a month from 4nl. THe biggest mistake I see is people get impatient and move up in stakes way to fast. And almost every time they lose like half their roll and want to quit poker. And thats a situation you want to avoid. And maybe this takes me 2 years and I am wrong. But so what? The fact is I am going to get their one way or another and at the same time never bust my roll. And in reality thats the key. Get volume, get better, get experience and at the same time make money. That get rich quick strategies is bunch of bull. GL on your grind.

Thanks for the heads up. I read your thread. Ballsy as ****. I don't want to oversell or undersell my ability or understanding of the game. I have no doubt you are better and more knowledgeable. I have seen a lot of hands and know from personal experience that most people do not view the game from an EV standpoint. Its more "gambling" or "Do I have the best hand or not, can I bluff because I don't want to lose what I have in?" and mainly "lets see flops" To me GTO is about a set strategy against a population. Its about the optimal strategy against the average(for lack of a better term) player that you are facing. It doesn't mean, to me, could be wrong, that you aren't looking to exploit that player and beat them. Its just that you don't know the specifics about them as an individual so you are going to use a strategy against a population as a whole. You want to use a set strategy in a situation over and over again rather than trying to read your specific opponent. Now if I have the terms flipped, or mixed, my bad. I see these players as very emotional, tight passive (because its zoom)
and results oriented. I feel that setting a default strategy, even if it exploitable, is very important, because these players aren't capable of exploiting it. At this point, though in limited hands I concede, the best strategy is to be aggressive, aggressive, aggressive, and then fold to aggression. The variance monster may be setting me up for a massive failure, but I feel invigorating understanding more of what it is im doing rather than relying on feel.

Ya be ready for the variance. Just realize we all go through downswings and its just part of poker. Don't beat yourself up over it when you have one. GL on the tables.