Just one minor observation, dust in the wind compared to the depth of open-ness from Spirit, but it's important to have in the back of our minds when we play.

"... But clearly, I don't soft play. I'm there to make money. It's just I can't get myself to ignore the sad aspects of the game we play and the society that encourages violence and battle and financial obsession..."

Nobody forces anyone to go play poker. The players are there of their own free will (or their lack of discipline to stay away if they lose all the time but it is still a choice.

Except for the occasionally arrogant bastard, I too have no ill will towards any of my Villains, individually or collectively. I have actually spoken to fish away from the table and offered a few simple suggestions to slow their loss rate. Minus EV I know but there have been a few that I felt self-important and empathetic enough to offer suggestions anyhow. Guess what? They didn't want any help. They weren't rude but they didn't change their play in any way whatsoever. Anecdotal only, doesn't mean all fish would remain the same, but it is still their free will and still their choice.

But here's the thing. If we know they are going to lose their time and their money with methodical certainty, if we don't win their money, someone else will. That is worth repeating - someone else will. As long as we make the choice to play in the first place, it might as well be us that wins it.

Not only that - we have a fiduciary obligation to ourselves, our sanity, and those who might depend on us however much or little that might be - including ourselves - to play to win. Could Hank Reardon ever do less than his level best at whatever he was doing? Francisco D'Antonia? Dagny Taggart? Who would willingly want to be James Taggart?

Allow me to offer my own recommended reading.

Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand)
Psychology of Self Esteem (Nathaniel Branden)
How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World (Harry Browne)
Stranger in a Strange Land (Robert Heinlein)

Someone who has read these four books will view poker differently. I am not claiming that they will view it "correctly", but surely differently.

I was thinking the same thing but didn't have the ability to say it.

I think that’s poor logic. You could also say “people are going to do heroin anyway, so it might as well be me who sells it.” That’s obviously an extreme example, but just because something is going to happen anyway, doesn’t mean it’s “good” or “okay” to be a part of it.

Without getting too hippy and saying things like “all life is connected”, I think people tend to feel better when they partake in activities that make other people happy and feel worse when you partake in activities that cause other people pain.

Only way that doesn’t happen is if You can find a way to rationalize it, or if you’re able to completely emotionally detach yourself. Or if you’re a sociopath lol.

First of all, I would like to thank OP for his numerous insights and contributing to the community with his thread ; more of these threads with perspectives are much needed in the poker world, me thinks... That said, I would like to threw in my 2 cents, mainly about the Richcheckmaker-OP polemic shaping up.

I think it might be reductive to assign these 2 diametrical views to a spectrum or in tandem with a natural evolution... For the record, I have been playing professionally for 8 years, spent my first 2-3 years thinking it was the coolest thing ever - well, almost... but you get my drift - to play as a living and I felt as if it was a great form of accomplishment. The 3 years or so were more overshadowed by doubt, questioning and feeling a lack of purpose. Nonetheless, it was not as night and day as I just pointed out, as both eras did overlap somewhat - I am after all highly self-reflective person and also a little vain -, but that was the gist of it, for the most part, I guess (or at least for arguments sake). But I feel slightly differently now.

To stay engaged in either way of thinking, would of frankly made my poker journey emotionally unsustainable in the long run ; I have after all decided to pursue this career for a few more years (3-5), the estimated required amount of time to have enough money saved up for retirement (might still play part time at that point though...). Of course, fixing a date for the end game as well as not presently looking inward into the negative aspects of poker, might be a way to cope with a decision that I am not 100% consequential with... That said, to do otherwise, would be to indulge into depression. Self-doubt. All negative traits that I think are addictive (and complacent) by themselves.

Today I find myself grateful to be able to travel the world nonstop. To encounter amazing and otherworldly experiences. I also find more balance in my life by practicing a tremendous amount of meditation, eating better, some exercise and bringing a positive presence at the table. I have also lowered my volume to about 25-28h/week and take at least 2 months fully off every year. This said - and to counter my point-of-view a little... -, I play mainly online (about 80-20%). The live I do play, consists nowadays mainly of live MTT events (where a sense of excitement is palpable, moreso than in cash games on a Tuesday night, for instance...) or in the Yukon (for 1 month this year), where the dynamic is quite different than in cities. If I was to put in more live volume, with the same group of regs, I think I would be quite depress as well and looking to get out by all means... Which brings me to 2 questions for OP : do you think your titanic volume factors into being so negative towards poker? And do you believe that you have a tendency to indulge into depression?

Best of luck, will be following

Thank you for sharing your experience.

The more I play, the more I don't like the game. I've felt this feeling many times before. It's not the volume per se, but it's having experienced what life is like without poker in my life. I tend to be a bright happy confident guy in general when I'm away from the tables for any significant time. I smile and make friends quite easily. Not so much when I play poker; I become quite dark, reserved, antisocial, snappy. Real smiles are hard to come by. I know I'm doing something that's not aligned with my highest values.

There are probably numerous reasons for my depressive tendencies. Environment is a big one. When I'm in the desert and when I'm playing poker in a casino, I tend to feel these negative feelings. Casinos are near the nut low when it comes to positive vibes. The reflection I see in the people around me disgust me. Being around many sick human beings makes me feel sick, mentally, physically, and emotionally.

I saw you mention vipassana in another thread. I won't go into details, but I thought I was on the monastic path for quite a few years. After having experienced life in monasteries and retreat centers, it's difficult to enter the world of constant conflict that is poker. The contrast is what makes it difficult for my mind to accept. Clearly, I am a low practitioner.

I don't like being depressed. And I probably control it much better now. It's not like it used to be, and I wouldn't consider it severe yet as of right now. But I know when it's creeping up. That's why it's hard for me to play, because I know it doesn't help my mental state. But...money.

Yeah, I practice vipassana, 2h everyday and at least a 1 month retreat every year. I am also blessed to have 5-10 vipassana meditators working at the casino in Northern Canada (as dealers, pit bosses, waitresses and in the bank), as it is similar minded kind of peeps that end up there, thus contributing to a better casino environment. And I do think that the more volume that I put it in online (7-8 tabling) is directly correlated to personal inflicted depression (I religiously meditate for 15-30 minutes after every 1-2h online session to release it ). So anyhow, I do agree with every point that you made, to a certain degree. I guess that since my decision has been made that I will be pursing this career for the feasible future (am 41 and I want to semi-retire by 45 to focus on meditation and volunteer work), I find it counterproductive to focus on the negative, in my case, at least...

Once again, thx for putting this out there and good luck on your journey friend (especially the non-poker one ).

No hard feelings buddy, I wish you all the best. We have different points of view, and that's ok.



Maybe playing poker in LA is different than wherever you play? Sunshine!! Blue skies!!! WEeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

Gotta get that sunshine man. Warm up your soul!!!!!

This remark misses the main point.

You have voluntarily (one would presume) chosen to play poker. You (also presumably) are exercising your free will and trying to win.

Who are you planning to win from? The winning players?

Update?

Yup. Thanks for the kick in the butt.

Well, I went on quite a downswing for a few days, was on life/poker monkey tilt. I had 4 losing sessions in a row. I don't remember the last time I've experienced that. While I was in it, I thought I was going to lose forever. I really questioned myself and my abilities. My mindset was completely off. But last few sessions, I've recovered most of my losses.

I'll just do it by day:

4/17: -2268
4/19: -725
4/20: -1316
4/21: +299
4/22: +1612
4/24: +2608

Lots of interesting hands, but individual hands are becoming a blur. I misplay some, I make bad folds, I make bad calls, I make good folds, I make good calls, I 3! too light, I don't 3! enough, I get lucky, I run hot, I run cold, I get caught, I pull off bluffs, I bet for value and get called, I bet for value and don't get called. I don't think I'll post too many more hands as it takes energy to keep track and remember. It's all just one long game, and cash on hand is the only thing that matters in the end.

I'm reminded over and over that patience is key. I can be card dead for hours, but in a few minutes, in a few hands, I can double my stack (or more). I just have to be patient.

My confidence was super low for a few days. I was horrified by my mostly terrible play.

I signed up for Live at the Bike, and watched a few of the high stakes cash games. Wow, I learned a lot. I'm playing way tighter upfront now. Probably still playing a few too many hands, but easily folding lots of hands I would have wanted to limp or raise with before. It's just not worth it. I don't need to play every hand that looks pretty. I only get myself in trouble. Plus, when I'm in LP, I play lots of marginal hands, so might as well make those good folds in EP when I'm bound to be put in uncomfortable situations. I've also been folding blinds much more.

My confidence is back now. I started exercising a bit and that's changed my mindset quite a bit. I felt way more patient and relaxed and focused today. I was able to connect with people and have banter and conversations. I felt really social today.

If I don't tilt, I can be quite the force to be reckoned with, especially if I'm running hot and momentum's on my side. I'm getting a bit better at understanding and utilizing table dynamics to my advantage. Of course, still lots of room to improve.

We'll see. Staying humble is really important for me. I know the cards won't always go my way, so I want to be mentally prepared for losing days. I can't win every session. All I can do is stay focused and make the most logical decisions I can.

4/25: 9:05 -1102
4/26: 6:11 +3211

My confidence is way up. I'm not spewing as much as I did during my downswing although there are some spots where I'm calling a bit too light on the turn and river I think. I also think I need to carry through some bluffs on the river when it's clear V's range is capped, and I can rep something. I tend to give up maybe a bit too easily once called on the turn. I think I am choosing good spots to double barrel though. Lots of V's call very lightly on the flop but fold too much on the turn when the bets become more significant.

Ran really good yesterday, made some good reads.

5-handed 3/5/T, I made one really good call on the river with 3rd pair in a pot that was about 1650. I raise to 35 in CO w/ 85ss. 3 callers.

Flop (140) 752cc.

SB bets 85, I call, BTN calls.

Turn (395) To.

SB checks, I bet 280, BTN insta-calls, SB folds.

River (955) 9o.

I check, BTN insta-bets announcing 350. I tank call and he shows A8cc for missed flush. I thought the pot was big and he would check behind most of his marginal hands, and I thought he would fold his 86 on the turn with 2 clubs on board.

We were playing 3-handed 3/5/T for a while. The last hand, I stacked both guys.

I'm on BTN (2700). V1 (750) opens in SB to 40, BB (450) calls, I call with 45o.

Flop (120): 954dd

V1 bets 70, BB calls, I raise to 270, V1 jams all in, BB sigh calls all in, I call.

I'm up against 9x and A8dd. Turn and river bricks and MHIG.

Short-handed is best. I was playing super aggro. Raising and 3! a ton and throwing in some 4! bluffs in there as well.

Been 3! pre much more. Creates an aggro image to get paid off when I have the goods, makes me hard to play against.

I'm still working on picking good spots to 3! I'm calling too much in some spots and 3! too much in others. Going to work on honing my timing for these plays.









Had a pretty bad short-handed 20/40 BigO/SuperStud session during my downswing. -1550 in less than 2 1/2 hours.

SLS is 2/3 (300 max bet game). I have ~8 hours in this game. I get really bored and tend to play non-optimally. I only play when I'm waiting for something else.

I think I was playing quite bad during the downswing. Hopefully, a lot of the terrible playing is out of the system. I'm adjusting relatively well to table dynamics and playing tight when necessary and being more maniacal and sticky when appropriate.

Nice to see you winning again and your confidence back.

RE: The 85ss hand.

Do you not consider folding to flop bet? I feel like it's dicey with the SB leading out and having the BT behind you to act. Especially w/a hand and on a board that just about every turn card in the deck is bad. (Any club and pretty much any card above 9). What do you think SB is donk leading? Are you just folding turn if he barreled turn?

i guess also why are you betting the turn? As a bluff?

Just trying to get into your head.

I did for a moment, but I had a couple things going for me. First, I was the big stack at the table and I was playing/running relatively well. SB plays very tight on turn/river and he doesn't like being OOP against me, so I thought I could take it away on later streets. I thought he also didn't have a monster like 2p/set because I think he would have chosen to c/r these hands, especially since I was playing aggressively.

I like floating flops against people who shut down on turn/rivers more than they should. I think I could have also repped clubs. I would also play my overpairs like this, and he knows that and would have folded on many turns/rivers.

But I dunno, maybe I play bad. I'm just testing stuff out still. It's hard to get a good sample size of flop floats since it's only a couple times in a session in big pots, if that.

Also, short-handed I think everybody opens up their game and it's important to be stickier and to fight for pots more, especially in position.

Thanks for the quick response man. I have pretty good success online but have a much trickier time when i play live 1-2 week. Looking for ways to improve and find different strategies and points of view.

Ya, I think live is way different. I play almost completely based on reads and dynamics, with a tiny bit of math thrown in (mostly just basic pot size/bet size ratios, pot odds, denying pot odds, FE, basic ranging/combo-ing and how their/my range interacts with the board and different turns and rivers).

I think people over-complicate live poker. I just ask myself these basic questions: What do I want my opponent to do? What should I do to get my opponent to do that? What does it look like I have to my opponent? How is he adjusting to my play?

The bottom line is: how do I get chips in my stack right now? Beyond anything, that's the deep thought that is running the show.

I dunno, I see so many people analyzing ranges/combos/equity on these forums, and I think I'm just a bit too dumb to understand all that beyond the basics. Live poker is so dynamic/read based. It's also about getting people in a gambling mood, getting straddles going, getting people playing scared, getting people wanting to call down with bad hands, getting people to play fit/fold. It's more people-based than people think.

But, then again, sometimes I feel like I don't know anything anymore. I just put in my hours, I see similar situations over and over and a lot of the time, I'm running on instinct.

Also, RE: the 85ss hand. The BTN is extremely passive fit/fold so I wasn't too worried about him. This time he ended up with a strong draw, but he's not the type to make many moves. Also, the turn bet was definitely a bluff.

I think the biggest thing i personally struggle with is the multiway pots, which im sure your games are like mine, happen VERY frequently and which happen very rarely in 6m online games.

I feel like im being too passive in these situations, so end up raising pre alot, check/folding post too often.

You have literally the highest 2/5 winrate i have ever seen so you gotta be somewhat intelligent lol

Hey dude, very inspirational and informative. Thank you for doing this. I'll be following along. I'm right behind you got a PG&C thread myself going. GL

RE: multiway pots -- it's ok just to fold a lot if you miss. It only takes one big pot to make up for like a dozen missed flops. That's what I always keep in mind.

Also MW, I'm a lot more cautious with one pair hands. I like to get the riff raff out, and then I'm very willing to fold to aggression on turns/river. Live players just don't really bluff big on the later streets so they are relatively easy to read.

The way people put their chips in and look at the board often reveal if they are drawing or have a made hand. The "looking for something" eyes and subtle excitement of gambling that comes from chasing draws is VERY obvious to notice if you play enough. Actually these reads probably account for more of my profits from bluffing than maybe any other factor. I dunno, it's something that's hard to put into words. It's more instinct.

It's important to play around with preflop raising sizes depending on table dynamics. Try to get it heads-up, 3-ways as much as possible. Sometimes you have to raise 6x or 7x to accomplish this. If this is the type of table you are at, it might be best to tighten up in EP and then really open up your range in LP, limping some and iso-raising some.

Today's Session:

1:46 +2563

Ran like God today.

In first hour, saw AA twice, QQ twice.

Hit two sets with AA, won ~220 with one, then doubled up on the other for ~1200.

With QQ, took down a healthy 3-way 4-bet (~240 each pre) pot on a safe flop.

Hit a set w/ 33 on J834J board and stacked AJ for ~700.

I'm happy I got up and left. I wasn't really feeling it, and the table dynamics had changed.

I really want to focus on playing shorter sessions from now. If I'm up 1.5-2k early within the first 3-4 hours, I want to make it a point to go home. I don't want to stay in casinos any longer than I have to.

We'll see though. It's tough to leave the table without healthy profits. Anything under 1k feels like a waste of time to be honest. It's a mindset thing. But I'm going to do everything in my power to shorten my sessions. It's good for my mental health. It makes me feel effective and more business-like. I don't play poker primarily for fun anymore. I want to treat it more and more like a business.

Ruthless. Cold. It's the way it's gotta be. I'm not there to make friends. I'm in and out. Poker is merely a means to an end. Cash is king. The big game of money is way more important than the sub game of poker. Playing poker and getting better at poker is completely meaningless in and of itself. There's no satisfaction to be had no matter how good one gets.

See you posting around, so decided to check your thread out. Haven't read it much though, but I will. Subbed~

I've realized that I like poker more and I win more when I play shorthanded. I find having 3-5 players at the table perfect. We get to play more hands, raise more, 3! more. I love seeing flops. I love playing flops and turns and rivers. The ability to be sticky because nobody is going to have much of anything most hands is something to be cherished, because people give up way too easily in general in live-low stakes.

I think THE best games in general are the shorthanded ones from like 2-7 am when everybody is leftover from the night before, or just came from a bar or a party, especially if we can get a straddle going. There's just a certain vibe around it, like relaxed, and gambley more. And when people gamble, I win.

I'm listening to people talk about poker in a theoretical way through some youtube videos and I'm learning a lot about how the game should be played in a mathematical sense.

understanding preflop ranges helps us discover player tendencies. what they might have in many post flop situations.

playing tight in early position keeps you from entering situations in which you are OOP in bloated pots with weak hands against tricky opponents. If you are dominating the table and stacks are deep, then yes, you can widen your ranges for both deception and value because opponents are making major mistakes both preflop and postflop.

you should always be trying to sit to right of the tightest nit at the table. this essentially gives you two buttons in a majority of rounds.

position and initiative are keys to playing aggressive poker.

i think im going to make some changes to the way i play:

i'm going to 3! more liberally with suited connectors and suited broadways with which I can make hands and continue aggression. I'm going to move more towards a raise/fold strategy except when I have position on really fishy blinds/limpers that make huge mistakes post.

im also going to start pot controlling more. I'm going to play smaller pots with marginal hands OOP, especially against sticky opponents who float a lot on the flop and sometimes on the turn.

the key to poker is to be patient. be willing to fold and play tight ranges until the right situations arise or a certain dynamic presents itself.

I think playing mostly TAG OOP and extremely LAG in position is the way to go. People fold more when you have position on them so your cards don't need much showdown value most of the time.

live poker is all about creating profitable situations. this is a skill that many grinders underestimate. you want to create a gambling environment where people want to toss chips around. it's really understanding what poker is at fundamental level which is how do i get people to give me their money because they like gambling with me. grinders need to understand that they are giving up so much EV because they sit there and don't contribute to creating a lively game.

Sounds good. Position, position, position. I think everyone underestimates position. Even you with all your position talk. Even me. Everyone. Position is king!!! Position is worth about 70% of any pot. But clearly you get that more than most.

I've been on a downswing (~8k; good chunk of my roll). Looking at my graph embarrasses me. I've been playing poorly in big pots -- making terrible calls and raises especially on later streets. I've been running into quite a few hands as well, and I thought to myself several times during this swing, "wow, top of the range again." I've let one or two hands put me on pretty major tilt. A few times, I was building a stack, and then just gave away a bunch.

Tilt is a major issue for me. I go through phases where I am extremely good at controlling it, and then some where I'm not. I have been doing my best to put my heart into poker again and to learn more about the game through a theoretical and mathematical perspective, and I still sometimes felt during this week that I was playing extremely well, but I let my emotions affect my play a bit too much.

Calling is the easy. It doesn't take too much thinking. It's passive. I've been stationing A LOT this week. I feel like sometimes I'm addicted to calling and despise folding once I get into a big pot. I've been getting married too often to a strong hand too early in the hand.

Raising and folding are more difficult than calling. I'm going to play a strategy where I don't hero call, especially on the river. Very few people bluff into my on river. They see me as a crazy Asian LAG that never folds (even though when I'm playing well, I'm usually playing quite snug, with a bit of semi-bluffs thrown in).

Hero calling should be done with basically only the top of our range in most 3/5-5/T games, especially in big pots. People just don't bluff that much of the river I think, especially against someone who's involved in lots of hands.

Once in a while, we'll be bluffed out of a pot, and it's OK. My never wanting to be bluffed has been a mental leak. When somebody puts their stack in the middle as a bet/raise, unless they are the relatively-rare-nowadays maniac, they usually have a hand.

I bluff a lot quite a bit, so I mistakenly assume sometimes that people will too. But they don't. It's relatively rare to see people overbluff. These guys mostly lose their money too fast in today's environments.

I want to take a short break from playing poker. I also am going to move out of my mom's place and spend a bit of time in LA where I have a bit more of a game selection. I've been frustrated because some nights at the casino, the games are just really bad. Fewer people "gambling" and more people trying to make money. A bunch of tight nitty guys, a few aggressive guys, and maybe one "gambler" at the table. These aren't good games. Some nights, there are only 2-3 games at 8 PM. The weekends are busier, but the main game is 2-3 (there can be 7-10+ running on many nights at peak hour).

Some people are really bad for the game. I don't know if they know it or not.

-Nits (unless one or two of them are sitting directly to my left, and then it's like they weren't even there I'm going to be raising way wider in CO/HJ, and I make the game way livelier when I'm playing more hands).
-People who are glued to their phones for extended periods. It slows the game down and gives off a bad vibe.
-Headphone Pros
-People who are rude to the dealer and other players
-The one person who refuses to straddle when 7-8 other players agree.

I've started writing about poker. I think it's important to write thoughts out. It helps us see where there are leaks in our game. When we write about poker, we see the truth of what we think we know. But until we can implement them day in and day out, we realize how many mistakes, both small and big, we can make in a short period of time.

I want my mindset to be one of growth and strength. I think poker reveals many of the things that hold me back in life. I let my mindset turn sour because the game is rarely REALLY fun for me anymore, and then I let my results spill into my personal life, and it's a nasty cycle.

There's a certain type of attitude required to win larger amounts of money in poker. One needs to have the idea of accumulating and not gambling. Calculated risk through relatively precise logic and math, not emotional decisions lead to winning. When I'm playing my A game and building a stack early, I feel invincible. But my C and D games are probably among the worst. When I spew, I spew like a donkey.

My relationship with money has been a difficult issue from an early age. Media and education condition us to have certain attitudes toward money. The dollar is perhaps one of the most powerful things to have ever existed in the history of the world. It is greater than any human being.

The way to start earning money on interest, one needs to be able to accumulate. I've always been an entrepreneur and moved money around, but I've had to start from scratch (or in debt) several times. This time around, I thankfully started playing poker again with very little debt.

So much of my self-esteem is built on external validation. I want to be seen and recognized. It's a deep pattern. Money, power, and women. These are the things I am apparently conditioned to chase and acquire.

My sexual life and conditioning would have been very different growing up in an Asian country. The media desexualizes Asian-American men and it's affected how I relate to the other gender, for better or for worse. Before I started playing poker again, I was just hitting my stride with women, but I'm putting it on the back burner, while I make this cash.