Stating that those wishing to protect the rights of the unborn as "anti-women's rights" is very disingenuous, this is a huge watershed issue worldwide and in the US, but you already know that.

I don't want to derail the thread any further so this will be my last comment on the topic, but it would be synonymous to pro-lifers calling abortion advocates "anti-children's rights".

The kids were there to support the rights of unborn children, of which 42 million were aborted worldwide last year alone.

to be anti-children's rights you would have to be anti-children. we're talking about embryos and fetuses here, not children. I'll stop derailing as well

lmaoo strong response

Haven't been looking very hard but I finally found this thread. Subbed. Congratz on the penthouse. GL

I know you're not being malicious and I don't want to challenge your image of being a 'top bloke' or whatever meale but you really lack perspective on this stuff. "abbo" in particular is really, really not okay dude. It's some N word **** but the group is even more marginalised. Words have power. Never raised an issue with the casual misogyny/transphobia online because that's not a conversation that will gain any traction on this forum/I can't really be bothered but not using racial slurs is pretty cut and dry I though.

So were discussing anti women's rights vs anti fetus rights?

Meale go pay that Kenyan hooker to have sex with you so you can save this thread from all the racism and sexism.

Inb4 "I just got extorted money by the cops after a crazy ex gf / a hooker / the maid snitched on us"

#yolo

Bring the discussion! It's a forum and this is what it's for. I'd completely disagree re the implicit/complicit racism thing being anywhere near as hurtful as overt racism. Please can you give example of how implicit racism is anywhere near as harmful as overt racism? Or I challenge you to provide example of how it even could be.

What is the worse problem? The little old lady baby boomer who will be forthright in her racism towards a minority and actually deny equal treatment to that person (overt racism), or the millennial who jokes about race but will always treat that person with respect and give them every opportunity for equal rights?

Fk, it's like we're too scared to even MENTION peoples' race in this outrage culture, as though ANY discussion of any race (that isn't white) is somehow contributing to racial inequality. I really strongly feel it isn't.

Rowan Atkinson says it best,



So, Ben, I think "complicit" racism, even though that word is very clunky in this instance, is not even slightly as harmful as overt racism. One could almost make the argument that such complicit racism is the catalyst to overcoming the problem of ACTUAL racial mistreatment.

As I stated, I had absolutely no idea wog had a different meaning than the meaning Australians ascribe to it.

Cheers, excited about moving in!

Thanks bud <3

I appreciate you voicing your disagreement here mate. This is good discussion imo and you're more than welcome to disagree and do so overtly ITT! To your point about "abbo" being equivalent to the "N-word", I completely and wholely disagree. Just think how many people who are not racist in the way people who use the N word are, use the word "abbo" but will refuse to use the N word. It has to be 50:1 at least. I know plenty of people who will casually use the term "abbo" but would NEVER use the N word - and the vast majority of these people are perfectly respectful towards aboriginals (to their face)...

Abbo, even if it's a derogatory term, I think is hardly different to me calling half of Sydney wogs. Again, if an aboriginal person comes up to me on the street, I will treat them with as much respect as anyone else.

If you think my referring to them as abbos in a broader sense makes me some sort of horrible racist person who is intolerant, which is self-evidently not true as per my previous sentence, then you're welcome to that view, but I think it's a shortsighted perspective.

Not sure what examples of misogyny you could possibly site... You realise misogyny is "dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women", right? I think it would be impossible to say, based on any of my posts, that I have a dislike of, contempt for, or prejudice against women. You should be careful with such accusations.

The transphobia I'll admit to. But I don't have transphobia as in a discriminatory sense. I have a phobia of specifically ladboys, just as I have a phobia of spiders. Again, I've almost never ever been treated respectfully by ladyboys, but I would always treat a ladyboy with respect if they were respectful to me. Always. Also my phobia is literally only of ladyboys, not of trans people more broadly. Never had an issue with it back in Australia. But it's something to do with the constant being cornered by dudes in 11 inch heels and then groped on various streets/alleys in Pattaya that has caused this distinction.

You should be bothered, because I completely disagree it's cut and dry. Again, just because I say abbo or wog (never to their face), does this really make me AS bad as the overt racist who will straight up deny rights to someone based on race? I would love to see how you or Ben could make such an argument that my passive tendency to use derogatory terms is in any actual way perpetuating the problem of overt racism.

Will prob still be labelled as misogynistic, transphobic, racist even if I marry a Kenyan post-op I'm afraid!

It's not about equivalence irt overt vs subtle racism, it's about social consciousness generally. Obviously it's not as bad as say, deliberately saying those words to inflict emotional harm, but normalisation of that sort of thing enables a culture of intolerance and makes 'real' racists feel validated in their bigotry. You as an individual aren't doing very much harm, but I wonder what benefit you perceive in its usage. You casually throw around words that are used against individuals who are disproportionately victimised. Take f@g for example (no idea if you actually throw that one around). Might not be a big deal for you and if you know how everyone in earshot is going to take it (you don't) it might be fine, but some people are literally assaulted and killed on a daily basis as their assailants scream that at them. The concept of privilege can be over applied but your ability to be separated from these realities as a bright, attractive, 7ft tall straight, white guy from a major Australian city is an example.

Suicide Attempts[1]

Compared to the general population, LGBTI people are more likely to attempt suicide in their lifetime, specifically:

LGBTI young people aged 16 to 27 are five times more likely
Transgender people aged 18 and over are nearly eleven times more likely
People with an Intersex variation aged 16 and over are nearly six times more likely
LGBT young people who experience abuse and harassment are even more likely to attempt suicide

16% of LGBTI[2] young people aged 16 to 27 reported that they had attempted suicide[iv]
35% of Transgender people aged 18 and over[3] have attempted suicide in their lifetime[v]
19% of people with an Intersex variation aged 16 and over had attempted suicide on the basis of issues related their Intersex status
8% of Same-Gender Attracted and Gender Diverse young people between 14 and 21 years had attempted suicide, 18% had experienced verbal abuse, and 37% of those who experienced physical abuse[vii]

https://lgbtihealth.org.au/statistics/

Not calling you out for anything in particular just providing an example of words/cultural attitudes having power. Small personal shifts can have massive echoing impact.

It's also not about whether you harbor any direct fear/loathing/resentment or whatever against any group, prejudice is bigger than any individual. It's built into the system. Fear of unknown/other is also pretty deep rooted in human nature. How we respond to this as individuals, groups and a society is a complicated discussion. Empathy is underrated and for us lucky few it isn't even clearly incentivised on a material level unless we use it to exploit people.

Really not trying to sling shade here, speaking purely to the point at hand not you at a person. In terms of misogyny I have no specific examples of overt offense, more a lack of perspective/the sort of **** everyone has socialised into them. I don't think you're a misogynist and sorry if I implied otherwise. Major props for engaging.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Abbo-a-popu...d-in-Australia

+1, said it better than I could have tbh. almost everyone I know throws around f@g or the n word like it's nothing, yet I know people who have been nearly killed over them being a "****** f@ggot", or who have been harassed and discriminated against for being black. slurs of any kind, whether it be the n word, f@g, or whatever shouldn't be used, even in a joking or "harmless" way by people who don't understand the weight behind those words (ie. people from those communities)

just my take on it

I think this needs a bit more unpacking... Because I don't really see how normalisation of a single word enables any intolerance, if the people using such word are tolerant. Imagine a society where white people called aboriginals abbos, aboriginals called white people whiteys, and BigBananas called Asians chinks, and the Asians called him a spastic. BUT everyone treated each other with respect and courtesy, there was very multicultural friendship in abundance, and everyone had equal opportunity. Then, these words would just be harmless words.

The problem with racism, as I see it, is that actual racists don't have any underlying principle of respect for others and are unwilling to treat people as equals regardless of race. Words, I don't think are the problem.

But I can absolutely see your perspective. I just don't think avoiding normalisation of these terms is the answer to resolving racism, that's my contention.

I literally just see it as a word. Abbo is a hundred times easier to say than aboriginal. And yes I realise that ACTUAL racists use this word as they go about being ACTUALLY discriminatory, but the way I use the word is completely removed from that - fk actually saying 5 syllable words when in relaxed conversation with your mates when 2 syllables conveys the same meaning.

I actually really cringe very hard when I hear friends throw the word '***' or ****** around these days. For some reason it really bothers me. I see that word as very aggressive and actually representative of the prior hatred, oppression, and actual discrimination that it arrives from. For me it's not the same as calling an Italian a wog, or an aboriginal an abbo - neither of them I say with any malice whatsoever. But it's impossible to do the same with ***.

I am very aware of my privilege. And maybe I simply cannot understand what it's like as an aboriginal to be called abbo by someone who harbors actual hatred towards them.

Yeah, I get that. You're 100% right. My contention was basically that words, used harmlessly amongst friends, are not the problem worth dealing with. Deeply rooted values like respect, empathy, and proper treatment, (or lack there of) are what I believe to be the actual issues causing racism that actually creates harm.

And I can already feel people jumping on me saying "your words aren't harmless, they're perpetuating the problem, yadada" but as I've said, I don't see words as catalysts to hatred IF the person is capable of compassion and respect.

Likewise! Now go play some fkn poker ffs

I don't think the demographic of people who answer quora questions is necessarily representative of the nation, but I could be wrong.

yeah, i mean there are certain words I don't think can ever really be joked around with or seen as harmless, like the n word, like '***', words like wog (at least as it's used in Australia) are perrrrfectly harmless IMO, abbo I seem to be in the minority who think it's acceptable.

NSFW:

Ahh, I have no idea how to react to this! Brilliant!

love this scene, thanks for posting. it's so true how obsessed straight people are with gay sex haha

also thanks for engaging meale, some good discussion

"I am very aware of my privilege. And maybe I simply cannot understand what it's like as an aboriginal to be called abbo by someone who harbors actual hatred towards them."

This is the crux of it, yeah. You know gay people, you don't know aboriginal people (not even the preferred term afaik but semantics). How do you expect an individual of whatever group overhearing/reading these words. The extent of the suffering endured by our first people's really is outside our comprehension. There's a general national attitude of not even really acknowledging this, your use of abbo is symptomatic. Again, not blaming you, I get where you're coming from, but IMO it's petty at best and damaging at worst. I'm also not saying you need to take on some immense guilt for your existence but why not just be more mindful/considerate across the board rather than using words that make people feel othered or unsafe in a public forum. It really is the same as using any other slur.

It not seeming like a big deal to you is exactly why you should drop it from your vocab.

Don't mean for any of this too seem personal (I feel like you heard me the first time ) but trying to make as clear and as strong of a point as I can for general readers of this forum because I think this sort of perspective is underrepresented on here.

GL this year, congrats on the penthouse, thanks so much for getting me into the apps again

Edit: Video more effective than anything I could write

Thanks for weighing in mate. FWIW, the distinction I see between words like "***" and the N word vs a word like abbo, ****** has, as shown in that vid, explicit ties to atrocities, as does the N word. Abbo, it has no such historical connotations, it hasn't been claimed by the oppressed group in the same way that *** and the N word have.

Also I want to say that I'm not necessary a beacon of moral enlightenment, but I really want to convey my point that this "passive" racism or whatever you want to call it that I exhibit I don't feel is problematic. If everyone in the world was exactly racist/moral in the capacity that I am, there would be no racism, because the underlying fair treatment and respect for all people would render these words meaningless. I don't think I should be prosecuted because of those who who use words and also are hateful people.

You're right, and to the aboriginals who are reading this and felt pain because of my use of that term, I apologise. Again, I am mindful that this term COULD cause aboriginal people unease and that's why I would never say it to their face. I shouldn't have used it earlier publicly, for some reason it didn't occur to me that there could be people who would be offended by it reading (not being sarcastic here either..)

Thanks brother, cheers for the good chat.

Standard response from a syrup chugging moose-molesting Canuck tho.

On the plus side, she’s implicitly given you the green light to bring back a ladyboy.

I'm not sure the logic works. But I think for my sake I'll sit that one out!

Considering the high level of immigration in Australia, there would be far more racial violence if we were a bunch of racists as suggested. In fact its the opposite we are on the receiving end of it almost always. Its a very tolerant country.

+1 for the most part. I never witnessed any overt racism at aalll during highschool (prob a function of my highschool) or at uni at all either. People here might not be a faan of a certain racial group, but they keep it to themselves mostly and are usually very respectful from what I've observed growing up in Aus.

Can we go back to talking about hookers and poker please.

Exactly. Why do SJWs always need to tard up threads.

Is SJW still a SJW if they go a day without announcing they are one?