Well written!
I have heard that voice in my head on a number of occasions (in home games mainly) but, like you, always suppress and conquer the urge to say something out loud.
Run good next month and keep up the great thread

Thanks, I plan to keep the thread going whether I'm running good or bad, although I'll probably write more frequently if things are going well. It's always harder for me to write consistently about losing and such than running hot and winning all the money.

Keep Going

Had a small win followed by a small loss to start the month. I feel like I haven't been winning my share of large pots lately. The lowlight of my week came when I had 23456 on 6th in Stud 8 in a huge four way pot. The other boards were A467, 3887, and 58TT with no flushes possible. Based on the betting I thought I was scooping the massive pot but I was already beaten both ways.

DGAF wrote about the abyss of live poker. It's when variance cuts you down over and over until you feel like you can't take it anymore, and then it just keeps on going. After a while it just feels like you're staring out into the abyss, wondering if it will ever end. I've only been running horribly for about a month so I'm nowhere near abyss territory, but I have felt glimpses of what he's talking about. Sitting there and watching awful players win my money night after night, wondering if it will ever turn around, all while trying my absolute best to be nice to the fish and stay positive despite the nagging feeling that tonight just isn't going to be the night, yet again.

Last week I played with a regular who I hadn't seen in a while. He's a smart guy and a decent player who has been beating the game for a couple years. This time though he was drinking beers (which I've never seen him do), was acting a little goofy, and playing like a total fish. He implied that he was being staked and I could tell that poker had defeated him. Once you hit that point it's very hard to get out. I would be very surprised if he ever go it back together, and it's likely that within six months I'll never see him in the game regularly again.

In times like this I'm thankful to have built the support system I have around me. I exercise regularly, get out into nature at least a couple times a week, have learned how to eat healthy without thinking about it, meditate twice a day, and live with a wonderful woman who knows nothing about poker but will still listen to me vent when I need to. Without all of these things I'd probably have no shot to make it through prolonged downswings. Even with all of this in place I may not make it, but it gives me more energy to keep showing up and taking my medicine until things turn around.

Downswings are when professionals make their money. Anyone can play a heater like a genius, but only a select few can keep up the quality and quantity of their play when things are going poorly for a long stretch of time. When you're running bad in live poker the majority of the battle is being able to keep showing up and playing at least decent poker in the face of it all. Those who cannot do that will lose their minds, run out of money, or most likely, both.

Subbed - very interesting thread which resonates with anyone who's been playing for a while.

There probably won't be a lot of substantive responses at least early on, since you are not posting a bunch of hand histories, or saying anything particularly controversial, but that doesn't mean we aren't reading and appreciating.

Sub'd

I'm a player and a writer myself. I have lost a lot of the time and desire to write I once had, but am looking to regain some of the fire for writing again. I do journal here in PGC, but haven't written anything outside of that in quite some time. I have some projects I'd like to restart at some point down the road, so hoping following along in another journey like this one it will help. Best of luck and looking forward to reading.

Thanks for the thread and wish you the best of luck I had a few questions.

What do you think about limit hold'em tournaments?

Also say there is a mixed field of some experts, some people who are decent or have a clue, and then a bunch of MTT donks who all don't really study limit. Do you think having a GTO base and more of a clue (but not much limit experience) would make a player +ev in the field? Like a WCOOP Limit event or something.

You guys see a ton of showdowns in Limit. Do you think this makes you more of a station in NL? Looser VPIPs and all?

Loving the thread. Nice read. What was your hourly when you played 2/5 nl?

Also wish you could elaborate more on breathing techniques and what exercises you did do improve mental game to help with tilt? Any book recommendations? Tell us more specifically about these techniques you've studied the past couple years. I've started working out and eating healthy lately and I've noticed the discipline in those areas have translated to my poker game and my overall finances. Do you think the two are connected? Is discipline contagious in that sense? I think so... I'm really intrigued in your way of thinking. Very nice thread. Give back more!!! Keep it coming!!! Thanks

Thanks, I appreciate hearing that. I figured I'd get fewer replies since I write large walls of text and that's not what everyone on 2+2 is looking for. I often write for my own creative expression and it makes me happy. If other people like it and get something out of it then even better.

Thanks, I hope you find the time and fire to start writing again. I think people who are are drawn to writing are always a little happier when they're doing it regularly. I know that I feel like a piece of my puzzle is missing when I go too long without writing something, anything.

Hi Yugioh,

I've always enjoyed reading your threads.

I don't know much at all about LHE tournaments. I imagine that they're like all other tournaments, where as long as your fish/expert ratio is high enough than you should be +ev if you have some of the basics down. It may be hard to realize your equity at the end of tournaments though if your shorthanded play is significantly worse than the experts. I'm sure that the $1500 LHE event at the WSOP is a goldmine for anyone who can beat 20-40 live, no idea about online events though.

We do see a ton of showdowns in limit, but we also need to learn how to save one bet in big pots as often as reasonably possible. I learned how to play no limit before limit and I was already a huge station from playing HUNL cash so I don't know if I'm any more of a station now. I think playing a lot of limit these past few years has actually improved my no limit game in ways that I can't really describe, it feels true though. One thing I have noticed from playing in no limit tournaments with good limit players is that they tend to 3bet more frequently and call 3bets out of position more often, probably because that's what they're used to doing.

Thanks for the responses I'll be looking forward to updates ITT in the future!

In college I would grind 2-5 NL and 5-5 PLO, I made around $50/hr for those four years. I was not very good at poker but everyone else was terrible so it worked out great. Playing online I made much more than that, and now I'm somewhere in between.

I studied breath work and body intelligence with Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks. I think they're absolute masters at what they do and have learned so much from them. The basic breathing exercise they teach is called the Yes Breath. There's a few videos of it on Youtube that you can learn it from.

Breathing is what connects your body to your mind. You can literally take your body out of a flight or fight response simply by slowing down your breathing to six seconds per in-breath and out-breath. It's much easier to make smart decisions when you have access to all of your available resources, not just your brain. I make it a point to keep my breath calm and steady using the yes breath technique while I play. It gives me something to focus on, calms my nervous system, and gives me the best chance to stay connected to my body and be in the moment when all hell breaks loose at the table. I also meditate twice a day using the Transcendental Meditation technique which I think is fantastic for overall well being and happiness.

Tommy Angelo writes great things about tilt and poker, though I disagree with his view that the goal is to not react at all to bad beats and losing. I think it's good to acknowledge your feelings to yourself at the table rather than stuff them down so long as you're not bothering others. Having feelings of anger, fear, or sadness and letting them flow through actually lets me get back to playing clear headed poker. Jared Tendler's books would probably also be helpful for you. I haven't read through them but I did work with Jared for a few months many years ago and he knows his stuff. If you want to get into more of the body intelligence/personal development stuff maybe read Achieving Vibrance and The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks.

I do think that discipline is contagious in the way you describe. When you start taking steps that are aligned with what you most want for yourself it becomes easier to start doing other things that also will help you reach that goal. Often times the first step is the hardest to get yourself to do, then once you get going things can kind of snowball in a good way.

Best of luck to you, hope I answered everything to your satisfaction and if not, keep asking! Cheers.

Very nice thread. Will be subscribing. Really enjoyed the "good game never lasts" post.

Good luck to you

Finished all of your posts finally and really like how you broke them down by topic to be able to stick to one point, one thought, and just elaborate on it and share your experience and learned wisdom on the topic.

I often attempt this but fail in that it's hard to stay on point as one thought will lead me to another that I want to share. Next thing I know, it's become a bit of a ramble.


I'd like to +1 to the quote above, and share that I am fortunate to find myself in a very similar mindset and life situation that you describe here. A support system and an appreciation for nature and the calming aspect that it can bring to the mind in an otherwise unsettling mental rat race we put ourselves into day in and day out. Without understanding the value of these things, my younger self would often get a little too far out of line in one way or another, be it mentally or with physical life/bankroll leaks.

Again thanks for the sharing of your thoughts, experiences, and learnings.

Good thread and definitely continue on. It took me nearly an hour to finished off reading. Your insight really help. Please dont worry about other reader not reply your thread because I believe a lot of them might be like me, read but worry to share due in term of poker knowledge.

I really get a lot out of it and help me add a thing to my bucket list which is I hope 1 day, I can be like you, good in poker and giving it back to poker community but the problem is I'm very bad in writer.

I'm sincerely respect and wish you all the best, who are generous of sharing and helping other. Keep the good works. Thank you

Thanks for the book and video referrals. Will definitely check those out. Nice read!!! Keep it coming!!

Thanks, glad you're enjoying. I liked writing that post because it's pretty philosophical and I enjoy thinking about big picture stuff like that. Remembering that games will only ever get tougher helps me to appreciate what I have right now in this moment. I think that's definitely a good thing.

Wow, I had no idea I had written enough for one hour of reading. Just goes to show the power of doing small things regularly and how quickly the results can add up.

The thing I like most about writing is that it doesn't matter if I write something good or terrible. The act itself of putting thoughts into sentences makes me feel happier, so I do it.

Thanks again, good luck out there and I would love to know if those resources end up helping you in the poker arena.

I don't think that rambling is a bad thing. A lot of great writers write in a rambling style that jumps from one place to the next. I think a key to good writing is being willing to express whatever is inside you when you sit down. It's going to come out in different ways for everyone, and I think that's a good thing.

As I think about what I was like in my twenties with regards to life and bankroll management I just have to laugh and shake my head. It's hard to believe that I played and did well for all those years without any of the stuff that I "need" now. The upside of being young and stupid is that you don't know what you don't know, so everything seems fine and you can just keep taking shots. For some it worked out, and the rest are off working in the real world now.

Just found your thread yesterday, it's a good read and I will be chiming in. I appreciate your willingness to hold yourself accountable and be honest with yourself about how you're doing in all aspects of the game. See you around!

really enjoying this thread, it's rare to find someone who's been consistently successful over a longish stretch sharing his thoughts, so thanks for that.

I'm wondering: what general part of the country do you play in?

I'm trying to learn mixed games, specifically limit Omaha hi. Any advice for a beginner?

Hey, glad you're enjoying this. I don't want to say where I live. If I do, people in my player pool will eventually read this and figure out who I am. Writing this thread will likely cost me some money in my regular games at some point and I'm okay with that, but I want to slow down that process if possible.

I've seen your thread so I know you're down in New Orleans. Harrah's New Orleans was the first casino I ever went to so it has a special place in my heart. A few friends and I drove out there one summer. They were all 21 and I was 19. I used another guy's ID to go past the inspection point and played 10-20 LHE all weekend. I ended up going back a few more times during college and played the 15-30 omaha high game a few times but never played it again since, so everything from here is an educated guess.

I remember suited aces and big pairs (QQ-AA) being particularly valuable because of their ability to overflush or overset other people. Big rundowns are very nice and double paired and double suited hands have some value too. 4 card starting hands are significantly better than 3. You want to build your preflop hands in a way that will set you up to avoid drawing to non nut draws and hitting middling two pair hands, those are the hands that probably lose the most money in that game. If it's a game where every flop is going 5 handed or more, you want to be especially careful about drawing to the nuts because odds are that someone else has it if you don't. If you're doing this and everyone else is playing 3 card starting hands, drawing to ten high flushes when the flop is capped and paying off rivers with any two pair, you should win a lot of money. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the response, makes sense that you want to preserve anonymity. I'll imagine that you play in Macau while wearing a tux, much like Bond in Casino Royale.

Yep, I am indeed in Nola which is partly why I wanted to ask about limit omaha hi, there's a 15/30 game that runs Tues/Thurs on the regular and a 4/12 half and half on Sundays. Coming from a NL background, I've recently been playing a lot of limit holdem and have decided that, if not now for limit Omaha, when? Thanks for the advice about starting hand requirements. I've been focusing on LHE basics like practicing good hand selection, playing with cards that can make the nuts, and piling in money when I have lots of pot equity. My plan is to do the same in Omaha and also to run extremely well.

Good luck this month!

Different Games, Different Edges

One of the things I particularly enjoy about playing mixed games is that I'm constantly finding new edges. Two advantages I've come across in the past couple weeks while playing have stood out to me.

First, since the game is played as a rotation of games, everyone is going to have a different skill set for each game, myself included. I feel pretty confident with my skills in LHE, O8, and all the draw games (Badugi, Badeucy, Badacy, 2-7, A-5), so I tend to play these games pretty aggressively. I'm willing to act strongly once I have a read in the hand by value betting super thin and making big call downs. On the other hand, as a result of not growing up with the stud games I don't read hands as well and I still make some fundamental errors here and there.

I'm working on patching these leaks up as quickly as I can through study and practice. In the meantime, it makes sense for me to play the stud games extremely nitty while going full blast in the flop and draw games. I think this works really well because most opponents will have no idea I'm doing this. They may see me call down with queen high in LHE and not fire that bluff in razz, or see me make a sick bluff in 2-7 and then call me down super light later in stud 8 in a spot where I always have it. Any time you can make yourself look one way while you're actually doing the opposite, you're creating profit. While I actually am very aggressive in the flop and draw games, I can make it work because I know the games and my image well enough to choose my spots wisely for nonstandard plays. Meanwhile, I lose the minimum with marginal hands in stud games while getting my good hands paid off, and I get better each day.

The second area where I'm noticing an advantage is with my mental game. The anatomy of a split pot hand often goes as follows: Player A and Player B each put a bet or two in on multiple streets, the hand goes to showdown, and the pot is split. Player A starts whining about how he was freerolling and lists all the cards that would have given him the whole pot. Player B then retorts that he was also freerolling and lists the outs that would have given him the whole pot. A hand of poker has been dealt, and somehow both players who won money in the hand are upset. This happens all the time. For whatever reason getting half the pot when one could have had the whole thing gets people more riled up than losing straight up does.

While I do sometimes get frustrated on nights where I can't seem to scoop a pot, I've learned to accept that the outcome of a hand is entirely out of my control. The amount of energy I conserve by not reacting the way my opponents do is energy that I can use towards strategizing, noticing subtle changes in my opponents' play, and having fun conversations at the table. I enjoy using my energy to do all those things and they also happen to increase my winrate.

As poker strategy knowledge continues to spread out into the community, it's the little things most people don't see that can turn a decent winner into a crusher when the results are tallied at the end of the year. Reading between the lines and finding new things to do that your opponents haven't thought of yet is how profit is made. I'm happy to get to share a couple of them and am excited to keep learning and growing as the hours pile up.

Deep Work

A few weeks ago I was listening to Jared Tendler's podcast (The Mental Game, highly recommend). The guest that episode was Cal Newport, a computer science professor at Georgetown. He's an advocate of something he calls "deep work", work which is done in a state of high concentration, free of distractions, and leads to an increased output of valuable work that's hard to replicate.

Listening to this podcast struck a nerve with me. When I first started playing poker seriously it was my first semester in college. I hadn't yet become an internet junkie and the iPhone didn't exist. Every time I played poker my entire attention was on the game and nothing else. I chatted, told jokes, and laughed a lot, but mostly I was focused on playing every hand as well as I could and observing everything I could from other players. I was in deep. I think this is one reason why I was able to win in those first couple years despite not actually being a good poker player.

Since that time many years ago my habits have changed a lot. I'm on the computer all the time, doing things I don't really need to be doing like web surfing and chatting on Skype. When I'm out of the house and find myself with a few minutes to spare my natural inclination is to whip out my phone and look at something. I've forgotten how to be okay with being bored. It's a long way from the days of sitting in my room and happily listening to baseball games slowly develop as a teenager. I want to be able to work deeply again, for both my personal well being as well as my bankroll.

Since poker is my work, I've decided to try something new. I commit to putting my phone on airplane mode every time I sit down to play poker. I've done it a couple times, with today being the latest. I notice that when I take away the option to web surf or text while playing, my mind opens up in different ways once the initial shock of what I've given up wears off. Today I felt slowed down and more present, able to anticipate future actions effectively. More surprisingly I noticed a lot of creative flow happening in my mind, thinking about different writing projects I might enjoy and how I might start constructing them. I felt happy to be where I was and excited about my life. It was nice.

One of the biggest passions in my life is trying new things. I've traveled to many places, love all kinds of foods, and especially enjoy taking something I already love and playing with it in an effort to make it even better. I feel excited about seeing what may come as a result of my new commitment. Sometimes I get great ideas that I do for a while and then don't stick to. I hope that I keep this one, mainly because I'm certain that great things will happen if I do.

Shearing Sheep

"You can shear a sheep many times, but skin it only once."

- Doyle Brunson

When I was 21 and starting to beat the no limit home games for a nice clip the games were extremely good. One guy who started showing up had a lot of money and a penchant for showing it off. Expensive clothes, fancy car, and bling everywhere. We played 2-5 no limit and he would usually lose about $1000-$1500 every time he played before calling it a night.

After playing with this guy and taking more than my share of pots off him for several months he went on a little bit of a heater on me. Hitting flushes, cracking my aces, basically just catching whatever he needed to stack me for a few sessions in a row. I don't mind losing, but this guy was talking a crazy amount of **** to me every single time he beat me in a hand, likely due to a long period of pent up frustration combined with being new and not really knowing anything about poker etiquette. Eventually I got fed up with it and did something that made for a nice story but I do kind of regret: I challenged him in front of the whole table to play me for $10k heads up the next day with 10-20 blinds. It was about a third of my bankroll and I had never played higher than 5-10 but he was so passive and bad that there was almost zero chance of losing it all. I knew that $10k was nothing to this guy and he would never back down from being challenged like that in public so I went for it, partly because I wanted to get the money back that I had been losing to him, but mostly out of ego and wanting to put him back in his place.

The next day we played for about six or seven hours and I slowly chipped away at him the entire time. I was up about $5k when he made up an excuse about needing to go home. I was very happy with the win and celebrated with my college roommates that night. A couple weeks later though the game runner said something to the effect of, "I wish you hadn't done that. He's never going to be the same after having some kid beat him down like that." He was right. While the guy never stopped coming back, he was a little more cautious afterwards as the idea of poker being a game of actual skill started to seep into his mind. I got my cut up front, but in the process I might have killed the golden goose.

I thought about this last week when I was playing a mixed session where one guy had no idea how to play Omaha 8, and no matter how many times people explained the concept of low to him it just didn't take. On a board of KJJ92, he called all bets and turned over A5 and asked the dealer if he had a low. Obviously this is a great situation for everyone else in the game, but this guy kept asking us to take the game out of the mix and got upset that he wasn't being accommodated. Of the two players who said no, both were regulars and winning players. One player said later that he "thought the guy would still play anyway", while the other guy was a cocky young guy who probably hasn't been around long and just didn't care about anything besides his immediate profits.

About two rounds after his request being denied, the action player got frustrated and left. This guy comes into town a couple times a year, blows off about $10k and leaves. It's not like he was an expert in every other game besides Omaha 8 either, he was playing every hand in every game anyway. By refusing to take Omaha out of the mix, the two pros increased their short term profit by a fraction of a big bet per hour. Unfortunately that came at the cost of the action player leaving much sooner than he otherwise would have, and possibly created the disaster situation of him never wanting to come back to this card room again.

In poker the pros are the store and the action players are the customers. Like in any other business, the customer is always right. If you give them what they want, treat them with respect, and let them keep their dignity, they'll be happy to come back because they value the entertainment aspect of the experience. But the moment you make them feel like prey, like a piece of meat surrounded by a bunch of vultures ... well, you can only skin a sheep once.