Haha well with 1800 at 1/2 your ROR is pretty low... Not saying I'm like 99% to not bust it but over 85 to 90%.

In reality I'm a lock to keep growing it though so we're just discussing semantics

With 10 buy-ins...I'd expect an RoR closer to 20%. But of course, this is dependent on many variables: style of play, difference in skill level between you and your opponents, typical pf bet size, etc.

Also, remember with any RoR calculation, it assumes you never withdraw from your bankroll: e.g. if you have a 10% RoR and continue to withdraw your profits above that base capital amount...everytime time you withdraw you take that 10% risk again. After 4 profit withdrawals your cumulative RoR is 35%.

In the end though, it's your money/bankroll so it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks. What's important is that you have enough to make yourself feel comfortable.

Agreed. Just watch the ego.

I am not currently withdrawing any profits anyway but I'm pretty sure you'd stay at 10% as opposed to dropping your ROR in that scenario...

Haha I'm very confident but I'm also always cracking jokes in here... I kind of merged my range on that one though.

I minored in Math/Stats with a 4.0. Trust me: you assume the 10% risk each time you reset your BR by withdrawing the profits over that baseline amount.

This is a common mistake by players with < 5 yrs experience...and it ends in a sad story where the player surprisingly finds themself busto despite only having a 1% RoR or something (usually happens with novice card counters actually). I'd get into a more detailed explanation, but I'm packing for Vegas as we type...

I think it comes down to how you word it. For example, if you have a roll with a 10% ROR but plan to always withdraw your profits, your ROR goes up significantly. But if you start with that roll, win a buyin and withdraw it, then recalculate without planning to withdraw again, your ROR should again be 10%. You have the same starting roll and parameters and the previous X hours of play have no bearing on the next Y hours of play.

I took no math in college but took AP courses in high school and had a very good GPA. I have never done the formula for ROR myself because online calculators make life easy but logically the same starting roll and parameters will give you the same ROR going forward....

Of course none of this matters since I don't withdraw but I find it interesting anyway. This is exactly why my shot taking plan wasn't to hit 8K again for a 2K shot but instead 9K and if that failed 10K etc. Having a 6K 1/2 roll and taking a 2K shot every time you hit 8K actually adds a lot more risk than people realize to their roll.

Have fun in Vegas and run good! How long are you out there? Poker trip mainly or partying or gambling or all of the above?

I was in Honors English guys. Just had to throw that out there. :beer:

I think you're narrowing in on it with your last post. When your BR returns to the same amount, you reassume the initial RoR. If your RoR is 10%, then yes, it will again be 10%. But take that 10% risk over and over again...then like I said, after 4 tries...your cumulative RoR has increased to nearly 35% (tho, in a vacuum, it was 10% each time). You can only pull it off so many times...

It looks like you intuitively realized this with the increasing shot-taking BR...which is clever.

I'm going out for 3 weeks to start, then I'll be back in AZ for a week. It's pretty much a perpetual poker trip. 5/10 games have all but dried up in my neck of the woods, so I need to move on and search for greener pastures. California will likely be next unless I really enjoy Vegas (which is unlikely since I'm not a big fan of the city).

We're just a bunch of well educated, smart ass poker degens in here!

Yeah I've seen people who use all of their cash game winnings to play tournaments, which is a similar concept.

Are you originally from Arizona? There are some spots worth checking out on the East Coast, if you're open to it. It's sad to hear 5/10 games are drying up anywhere, but hopefully we're only a few years away from the next poker boom (widely available online poker in the US).

August 2 – “All in the game yo. All in the game.”

I shot down I-95 to Maryland Live last night for some 2/5 action, and had a pretty smooth night. It was all in the game - some hero calling, some bluffing, some big hands.

Early on was my only bump in the road, when I got it in with AK and a backdoor flush draw on an 8 high flop and got there with running hearts. I 3bet and cbet and when the villain jammed I was getting 2.5-to-1 and didn’t think he had AA/KK or a set, based on our banter, so I had to call.

Hand No. 1

There’s a straddle and two limps and I make it $50 with AA. It’s my second raise in like two hours at the table, so four people call.

Flop ($259): Q98

Three checks to me, I bet $120 and there’s one check-call. The villain kind of looks like Eugene Levy, the father in American Pie. He just ran KK into AA for $800 so he may be a little tilted, but he’s not showing it too much.

Turn ($499): 5

He checks and I think and bet $250. He calls quickly.

River ($999): 3

He thinks and moves all-in for $375. I read him as weak, tank and call. He shows KQ and I’m good.

Later, we had a very similar situation arise when I had KK on a Q high board where one straight draw got there and he bombed the river – I had the same read and called and was right again.



Hand No. 2

I limp 33. There are three other limps and the BB raises to $40. He’s got like $1000+ behind so I call.

Flop ($96): AJ8

He bets $65 and I call.

Turn ($226): 9

He checks so quick I don’t even notice, and I’m staring at him waiting and the dealer tells me it’s on me. I bet $160. He tanks and calls.

River ($546): 4

He checks, I bet $350 and he tanks for a couple minutes and folds, and claims AK.



Total Result: +$2,325 in 5 hrs, 28 minutes ($19 in tips)

Nice work cuse, keep it rollin! Love the session reports with chip pics. Only request would be for stack sizes

Thanks... For pictures or hands? The last pic is like ~$3100. The other one is probably $2700-$2800.

For hands, so I can think about spr etc...the chip pics are just fun to look at

Oh OK gotcha - I try to include it where relevant, sometimes I show it on a later street instead of preflop - but I'll try to make sure I don't leave it out in hands where it's key.

No, originally from Canada (have lived all over the country), but have been in AZ recently as my family resides there.

Unfortunately, mid-limit games drying up is nothing new. We do need a new boom: either from the resurgence of online gaming in the US, a good big screen movie (Rounders 2?), or something like a hot chick winning the Main Event.

In other news: Vegas has been drowning the last 24 hour; had to drive through a virtual monsoon on the way here.

Oh, and what's up with that last session report? Your biggest session ever, and you hardly wrote it up. Also, a couple of hands you desribed didn't make sense. Not sure if I'm too tired to read it properly, or you were too tired to write it.

PS your bankroll's looking a little bit 'safer' now.

Yeah I think we're a near lock to get a boom, it's just a matter of when.. It could be next year, or it could take several years - but it'll happen.

I didn't even realize it was my biggest session in this thread... But it wasn't even close in terms of BB won, so that's part of the reason. I'm also tapering off posting as much detailed strategy as I used to as often as I used to... Which I think is necessary as you become a reg at higher stakes, and also as I look toward doing coaching in the future.

Why didn't the hands make sense? The first one I got value from AA then heroed the river, the other one I turned a small pair into a bluff.

Golf Championship

I played the final match of my golf league on Sunday. It was a three ball, stroke play with handicaps, and I was probably the underdog going in. In both of my prior playoff matches, I had been horrible the first three holes then closed on a tear to win and advance. This time out, I came out guns blazing. I was surprised by the nerves - I felt minimal nerves in the semifinals, but a lot knowing it was the championship. It was the first time I've truly felt nerves while golfing, and it made me wonder how much that could be the case in poker in big tournaments.

Anyway, I overcame it and striped a drive on one, hit the green and two putted for par. I striped a drive on two, and made par again. I hit a bad drive on three but recovered to save bogey on a tough hole. I was in control. I striped a drive on four, then had a big misstep. I stood a little too close to the ball and pushed it way right as a result. I was in a little stand of trees and should have found the ball, but did not. Under league rules, I had a choice of a drop in the middle of the trees or back by my original shot - I went back, and jogged to get back with a group behind us. Not wanting to hit it right, I closed down the face of course and over compensated and pulled it left. I hit a nice pitch that was about two feet from being beautiful, missed an 8 foot putt, and made a triple bogey.

I recovered with my drive of the day on five and made another par, then missed the green and nearly saved par on six, but a short putt broke the opposite way I expected. I was +5 through 6, three shots ahead of my handicap. On seven, I got unlucky. I was short of the par-5 green in three, and during the backswing of my pitch, someone screamed loudly from about 100 yards away and I bladed it over the green, short sided. I chipped it about 10 feet past and two-putted for double bogey.

8 is my nemesis hole, and I made doubley bogey after yanking my drive left for like the 100th time this year, despite using 3-wood. I've tried drive, wood, iron, you name it... It just doesn't suit my eye. I may need to start going 7-iron there.

So that left me on the ninth and final tee with a 1-shot lead over my closest competitor and two shots over the other. I was in control, and made a good swing but hit a little behind the ball with a 5-iron, coming up about 40 yards short of the hole on the par-3. The second place competitor made a bad, sawed off swing, fearing water left, but got a little lucky with a good hop to skip up onto the green instead of slicing away. The third place guy hit the green barely on the right side. I mis-estimated the pitch due to thick rough and had about 40 feet left - we were all below the hole, similar distances away. The green was way slower than usual and I was about 12 feet short in 3, second place was 10 feet short in 2, and third place was 25 feet short in 2.

Third place bombs his putt and gets in with par. I stroke mine beautifully on the line I wanted, and it doesn't break at all, shocking me. I mark a few feet away. At this point, I'm looking at a 2.5-3 footer to tie the guy who was in third, and as long as the other guy doesn't hit his 10 footer (he's decent but hasn't made one inside like 6 feet all day), we're in a three way playoff. He hits it dead on line, but it slows down as it nears the hole and looks like it may die on the edge... But trickles in, and I hit my putt to tie for second.

Not awful, but incredibly annoying. I caught a few bad breaks, only made one or two bad swings the whole day, and couldn't pull it off. Still some money for second, though. But I was in it for the glory, not the cash.

Meeting Zoltan

I forgot to include this in my Maryland Live trip report, but I got to meet Zoltan while I was there. We were texting, and he walked up behind me at the table and looked at me. I figured he had an idea it was me, but he had no way to know. He had texted me that I had a huge stack of chips and called me a jackass, then walks up behind me and said "Hey, jackass?" with kind of a questioning tone. I missed a golden opportunity to bluff him and be like, "Who the f*** are you calling a jackass and what's your problem?" But I was stuck in figuring out if it was him mode and was like uhh, hi? instead.

We chatted a bit, but I didn't want to leave my table because it was so good, so I had to pass up his offer for a beer. Thanks anyway, man, maybe next time!

On Deck

I'm finishing up a shift at work in a couple hours, then it's out to AC for some grinding! I think I may see that girl I've been hanging out with again, so we'll see. She was kind of flaky last time, but she's younger than most girls I hang out with so I kind of figured I'd have to deal with some of that stuff. Now that I'm 28, I also know how to handle it with minimal annoyance and without letting the girl grab control of the power in the "relationship." (What we're doing isn't really dating, so I don't mean relationship in that context.) So we'll see how all that goes.

Lol zoltan > duke

First time I tried to meet cuse at borgata I started talking to some random guy.

It's all about the setup bro.

(Or, look for the guy with the 4-BI chip stack?)

Well I'm out at the Borgata but decided not to even play live today. I'm on raging life tilt because of something ridiculous that blew up in my face career wise and may cost me a job I had no business losing with a company that loves me and doesn't want to lose me.

So I'm furious over the details, which I may be able to share here at a later date, and decided to just play an online tourney and watch the One Drop on tv. I'm also running awful in the tournament, but still hanging in.

damn OP sorry to hear pm me if you want to tAlk

Oh yeah, I busted the tournament as a 94% fav with one card to come when a guy SNAP called a pot-sized all in, then SNAP called my overbet re-shove with 3d4d on 5TJA with two clubs when I had AQ, and binked his deuce. The flop had checked through.

That was like an hour ago - I've just been sitting here stewing about things, talking to friends via text/chat, and watching the Big One for One Drop. Hopefully a long night's sleep puts me in a better place tomorrow morning.

Pro tip: 2/4 or 3/6 limit, drink your face off, sleep in. Best $100 you'll ever spend.

:beer: I will spend whatever time is necessary to address your problems and concerns.

this is actually very solid advices imo

Thanks man.



Appreciate the thought guys but donking off money just sounds like no fun at all.

Well I'm off of life tilt. Looks like I'll be keeping the position, but I can't get into many details. Basically one entity almost screwed me and my supervisor for this position went to bat for me and came through.

Pros: I'm well rested and ready to grind. I'm capable of recognizing all forms of tilt and not playing when tilted. I haven't been on tilt from poker in years, though.

Cons: I lost a day and a half of grinding hours.