Easy answer is don't play short stacked

Limp/3bet is kind of cool in this spot against a wide opener

Limping with a mid-pair from early position is not the misplay you're making it out to be. I'm incredibly confused and what you're making such a big deal about.

The limp/call (getting 5 to 1 on the call, with plenty of implied odds after), or a limp/raise as Duke posits, are both perfectly fine. I feel the limp/call has more value unless villian's VPIP > 35%.

Anyways, I don't want to get pulled into an asinine conversation about a straightforward 1/2NL hand...

Other than Duke, you guys are missing the point. Read the entire context of the 88 hand. You're right, limping mid pairs can be standard, but with 40bbs it's God awful.

If OP is aspiring to be a pro and doesn't see anything wrong, it is a big deal.

Clearly you know nothing about playing a 40-50bb stack. Your analysis of this spot is atrocious.

Thanks Push!

I'm not going to waste that forum's time with a totally standard hand. If you'd like to, you have my permission to go post it, as long as you promise to come back here after YOU get laughed out of the room. I'll get back to you in a minute.

I virtually never do play short stacked as you know, but I'm not going to top off to play 5 hands in MP/EP before I leave. Limp/3B is good against a wide opener, but limp-call is my standard there with that stack size.

Agree on all counts. Limping a middle pair in EP is very common. We aren't making a lot of money with these hands by thinning the field and playing for one pair value against a couple of opponents out of position in a bloated pot. We're making it by making sets and stacking people with TPTK and other such hands.

It's not God awful. It might be god awful in a 5/10 game, it might be God awful in an online 6max 1/2 game. It's not God awful in a live 1/2 game. You have more room to open mid pairs deeper than you do shorter.

It's perfectly fine at 5/10, in fact, probably even more so that at lower limits. By this level players realize the value of having hands like this in their early range...it adds value to their other hands by making it harder to define their ranges in the future. Besides, by itself, it is +EV (assuming you're a decent player post-flop). But herein lies one important point: as a player becomes more adept, they can play a wider range pre-flop as their post-flop edge increases. Again, a mid-pp isn't exactly pushing the envelope here...even considering that hero is limited by a 44 bb stack.

More importantly, I would add a couple cliff notes (esp to W2):

1. There are more respectful ways of debating a difference of opinion. W2, your choice of wording is a little on the rude and abrasive side. I know, I know, you're just so deeply concerned with OPs play that you can't help but ram your expert analysis down his throat...but perhaps you could find a more polite way of voicing your opinion.

2. You should be wary of being too confident in your view. In this case, I can most assure you that you're wrong. But besides that, the point of this forum is to bounce ideas off one another. Just as you might bring a valid point to the table, you might just as likely realize that others have a valid point. In fact, I practice what I preach...in this hand I posted here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/11...qq-sb-1361369/

Sol Reader convinced me his line was superior to mine after POLITELY stating his difference of opinion. In fact, I then defended his line after other posters started arguing my original point of view. Haha...after looking through this thread again noticed Duke posted in it also.

Anyways W2, maybe you were having a bad day or whatever, but it would be nice if you could be a little more respectful/polite when stating a difference of opinion, and a little more open to alternate lines that you might not take...I'm sure it would be far more constructive and everybody would benefit a lot more.

"Your G-D negativity! I don't need it. I'm an idea man! I thrive on enthusiasm." - Wedding Crashers

(After being told I'm making almost $20/hr, hence borderline crushing)

You've made 2-3 positive posts in this thread, and spend the rest of your time trying to cut me down, insult me, insinuate I'm a losing player or tell me to quit poker. You rarely get into a constructive conversation with anyone, because you'd rather be a nitty, condescending prick.

Anybody who's read this thread knows a lot about me, but two of the biggest things they know are that I'm not afraid to post hands I play wrong and I'm indisputably a winning player. I'm not only posting hands I think I played perfectly, as you suggested.

So I looked around a little bit, and what did I find? You love to troll people's PG&C threads and try to cut them down. You did it to RobFarha, questioning his definition of success and ripping him to shreds for not openly talking about taxes in his thread. This isn't a tax forum, buddy. It's a poker forum.

You did similar things to a couple of other guys, telling them to quit poker, get jobs and contribute to society - which you define as paying taxes. You told them this like one post into their threads.

Let me tell you something. Contributing to society has virtually NOTHING to do with paying taxes. (Not that I plan to evade at all.) How dare you tell people they aren't contributing to society based on a few posts in a poker forum? You don't know anything about what I do or have done away from the felt, what charity work I've done, etc. You don't know that about anyone in here. Where do you get off telling people they don't contribute to society based on your narrow-minded definition?

Being successful is based on any individual's definition of success. You don't get to tell me, RobFarha, or ANYBODY what success is. You get to tell yourself what YOUR success is. I have a buddy giving up an interesting job to move across the country and wait tables, and it makes him happy. To me, that wouldn't be success. To him, it is. Good for him! He gets enjoyment out of it, so who the f*** am I to judge him or tell him he's wrong? Who the f*** are you to try to do that to any of us? Judge your own success and happiness, not mine or anyone else's.

But if you're being honest with yourself, and I mean REALLY honest, I have a strong feeling you would have to admit that you aren't enjoying your life. Otherwise why would you come on here and spend the majority of your posts trying to make other people feel bad about taking a shot at their dreams?

You probably hump a normal 9-to-5 job that you don't personally enjoy. Do you hate your job or your boss? Or maybe it's both? Or is what you really hate most that you don't have the stones to take your shot? So instead you just come on here and try to troll people who are taking their shot, trying to pull them back down... Because if they fail, in your twisted mind it validates your decision not to even try. But let me tell you something, everyone who tries and fails has something you don't have and never will have. They have the knowledge that they took a shot and they can take peace in that.

Then you try to trash me every time I make a decision based on a read, or play too aggressively or too loose for your own personal liking. So what's the deal there? You're not good enough to make those reads, so they scare you? You know if I can do it and others can do it and you can't, that means you're just not as good at poker as you would like to think. So the rest of us must just be lucky, arrogant BSers making stuff up. Sorry, pal, but there's a level to the game that you just aren't on.

You make blanket, negative statements and don't back them up with anything. I ask you what hand makes you think that, but then you're suddenly too busy to go check. You call a hand laughable, but can't even explain why you think it's bad, even when everyone knows you're wrong.

Take your negativity and your crap in this thread, or any other PG&C thread you feel like doing the same thing in, and shove it. You want to keep posting in here? Go for it, but be prepared for the hell that's going to rain down on you. From here on out in my thread, you're a hostile witness, a hater. I'm not going to tolerate your s**t, but if you want to keep shoveling it, go for it - it's only going to serve as added motivation.

Have a nice day!

You've taken your comments too far. I've criticized you for being a calling station, but nothing to warrent your reaction.

You can think whatever you want about my personal life. Trying to reason with your 'read' on me would be an exercise in futility.

No one is telling not to chase your dreams. No one is personally attacking you. Your reaction is overly sensitive.

I'm done with this thread. However, just some good life advice...be coachable (not talking about poker) and the opportunity cost of playing poker is extremely high. Plan accordingly. Right now, you're are so far behind in the race you actually think you're ahead.

Best of luck.

No, you took your comments too far, and I'm NOT just talking about this thread. You called FunnyRaise, a guy who saved a year of living expenses to take a shot, delusional in your very first (and only) post in his thread:

"Pure delusion buddy. Quitting your job to one table 100NL in a uncertain regulatory environment? What could go wrong?

When you go re-enter the workforce, what are you going to tell potential employers?"

To a guy who wanted to move to Vegas and take a shot:

"Get a job. Pay taxes. Save and invest. Build wealth. Retire in LV."

Then you asked Rob Farha once about taxes and got no response, so you decided to be a jerk about it:

"I haven't heard you mention paying taxes once in this thread. Good luck showing up with assets one day without ever claiming income. The IPS will climb up your arse so quick it'll make your head spin. The opportunity cost of playing poker is ridiculously high...especially when you dodge Uncle Sam."

You then questioned him saying he "made" it.

As for the opportunity cost, I've been in a career field where I've worked 80 hours a week for $13K a year for bosses who treated me like crap, and that's not even the worst treatment I had. So you don't have to tell me anything about opportunity cost. It's that opportunity cost that has me seriously pursuing poker.

Also, you grossly misrepresented me and the hand in your post. I'm not aspiring to be a short stacker, and you know it and just felt like trying to be a wiseass. 44bb is not "short stacking," that'd be 20-30, and in that case you can raise/4b or open fold.

Keep hating or take it somewhere else, I don't really care.

Wow that 88 hand sure sparked a firestorm. Personally I would raise but i think limping is fine and at a loose table w ~40bbs I actually kind of like a limp/jam there to win a rake-free uncontested $30 most of the time and be flipping a decent amount when you are behind. I think the difference in all the lines is pretty marginal, however.

Hand 4 was the real mistake, I know you know this. Its a limped pot, once the 8h comes on the turn it just completed most of the draws he could have. I always just check/fold here in a limped pot. You don't have immediate or implied odds to draw to 4 outs to hit a non-nut boat. Save money in these limped pots by cutting your losses in spots like this when you have a minimal amount of money invested. He is bluffing way less often here than you think he is.

I like the limp-jam more a little shallower, maybe with 30bb. I think the raise is bad because it takes you out of the most profitable spots when you are 3bet (flopping a set vs an overpair) and it'll be tough to play OOP.

Agreed on the other hand. I need to check the turn and then it depends how much he bets whether I can call or not. I can discount bigger full house draws because he'll so rarely have them as played.

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Push, I just wanted to say thanks for standing up for me on this and commend you on managing to be so tactful. I normally would be much more polite to him than I was, and consider the possibility that he was having a bad day (I'm a big believer in that actually), but he's made a habit of this in my thread and other ones as well, and as far as I could tell, barely got called on it, so I'd had enough of it.

No worries. To be honest, you were more than patient yourself the first 3,4,5 times he needled you.

I think everybody has been very tolerant with the continued trolling that is clearly a violation of this site's terms of service. But at some point, you have to draw the line.

I'm about halfway through your blog and loving it. I'm about to move to atlantic city to grind over the summer. Your writing is getting me so worked up about it. I used to be a regular 1/2 player at harrahs for years but heard its relly dying over there now. I've grinded 1/3 underground in nyc for years but the rake is redonkulous. I've already got my bankroll set up and gonna make a run of it. Hope to meet you sometime. I feel like I already know you after reading your blogs the past week. Well keep up the good work man. Youvd been an inspiration to me to take the big leap!

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Thanks, I agree. It can take away from all the good we can get out of these threads. Constructive criticism is great, but trolling over and over isn't helping anyone.


Thanks man, that's awesome to hear! PM me when you get out to AC.



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w2 is thinking why do you not give duke **** for trolling 99% of the time but you flip out at me

W2 should've broken bread with me before he trolled me. Trollers beware, I'm not afraid to go nuclear!

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Hope everyone had a happy Father's Day! I played an early round of golf with my Dad, then watched the U.S. Open with him. Tomorrow it's back out to AC. Always good to have a relaxing day with family and try to recharge a bit, but I'm way behind on sleep and have a 3:45am wakeup. Hopefully I can play a few hours tomorrow, nap, watch USA/Ghana, then put in a solid 6 hours or so.

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Cliff notes of the last few days: broadcasting work pops up out of nowhere and cuts into my poker time, I feel tired while I'm at Borgata so play online in my room instead of playing live cash. I play a cheap satellite for $11 to screw around, trying to win a seat in a bigger WSOP satellite. I bubble it in 4th when 3 spots paid by losing with TT to A9.

Next night, I play the $27.50+R+A which is the same structure to the WSOP satty I bubbled before. I aim for 20K in chips after the add-on period and run it up to 30.5K. I get up to the 11th biggest stack with 112 people left, 25 spots pay and $2800+ up top. I'm 3/105, 1/88, then I bust the guy who beat me heads up for the WSOP ME seat and go to 1/45 left... Then I 3bet a guy who's raised my blind four orbits in a row with 78. It's 1K/2K/200 and he opens to T4350 and I make it 10,500. He calls. Flop (28,800): 89T He has 43K, I bet 12,750. He jams and I have a read on him and put him on AK/AQ with one club. I call. He has AQ and I hold. That puts me 2/33. Then 1/24.

Then at 2K/4K/400, a bad loose player in MP makes it 10,000. I make it 25,000 with 99. He calls, leaving 85K behind. Flop (56.8K): 833. I bet 32K, he ships it in and I snap call. He has 68. Nice! Turn: 8. Brick on the river. I was still 2/19, but if I won I'd have 25% of the chips with 19 people left. I didn't take notes on the rest, but I ended up re-steal shipping KQ over a button open at the final table and running into AK or AQ or something like that and finishing in 8th out of 144 runners for a small score of 200-300 and an annoying finish.

So yesterday in Delaware, I played the $25 nightly tournament which is the only decent one they have here and there's no online cash action. I finish 10/28 when 3 spots paid by losing KQ < KQ to a flush. Tonight I played the same tournament and lost all-in preflop with QQ to 99 when he flopped quads... Fought back up to a big stack and picked off a huge overbet bluff with A8 on T87J when someone bet the flop and I called, then jammed the turn with AK and he spiked the K. Fought back up, chip leader at the final table, I run AK into AA on a K high flop and go down to 6th out of 7 remaining... I fight back up to the chip lead, run JJ into AA where I have like 45bb and the other guy has 38bb and I make a huge laydown preflop and avoid it. I'm chatting with some of my poker friends and telling them how I can't be stopped, I'm crushing everyone.. I'm chipping up easily even after getting coolered, finding big laydowns, doing it all. Then, boom. T75 board, I have T8, he has 88, turn 8. One outed. I have 15 bb left, it folds to my button a few hands later and I jam K9s and run into TT and can't hit. GG me, out in 6th/38 no money.

I'm crushing these online MTTs and bubbling like a fiend. The WSOP ME seat and the one with $2800 up top actually hurt a little. This Delaware tournament I've played 5 times, final tabled 4 times and cashed only once in 4th place by running awful at the final table. I'd look into whether I'm closing bad, but I just keep losing as a big favorite in huge pots. There are a couple spots where I played them "standard" but could have found a fold against the weak competition in these things. At least they're small stakes and just a way to have some fun playing while I'm in Delaware. Of course, bubbling repeatedly is no fun at any stakes.

Ugh. Saving up my run good for something more important, I guess. I'm sure I'll be over it in an hour or so.

Possibly hitting up Maryland Live Saturday with Duke... Looking forward to USA/Portugal on Sunday.

Yet again I'm at the final table of the nightly tourney online in Delaware. I'm the chip leader with 7 remaining. This one is MINE. First is only a few hundo, but given that I'm playing while studying, it's a nice little ROI on a soft $25 tourney.

I've basically been in the top 3-4 stacks the whole way, I always seem to be in this one... But tonight the final table run good switch is turning on and my play will give nothing away.

Victory is sweet no matter the size. TID!!

I'm in the chip lead still with 7 left, slow structure here today... I've run my stack from 25K up to 35K since we've been 7 or 8 handed, and the blinds are 150/300/30.

UTG limps with a starting stack of about 7K. This is weak, I know his raising range up front includes small pairs and K9. I make it T750 with KT. He calls.

Flop (2160): J9T

He jams 6,315. I tank. I've seen him check-min-raise big hands, starting with top pair on up. I've seen him donk weak with it too. So this feels more like a weak hand or a drawing hand. I tank and call. he shows T8. We've got a pot bigger than 4/7 stacks at the table at the start of the hand.

Turn (14790): 7

River: 5

Yuck. It's ok, though, I'm still in second place and I have the God seat on the chip leader who is limp-calling really wide preflop and check-folding a lot postflop. About 10 hands later...

Chip leader limps, still at 150/300/30. I make it 750 with K2. He calls. We're 28.6K effectdive and third place has 19K.

Flop (2130): QT7

He checks, I bet 950, he calls.

Turn (4030): 4

He checks, and I decide I need to merge my range with all my prior lines so I bet small - 1,375. He calls.

River (6780): J

He checks, I bet 3,250 and he jams for 23K more effective. It kinda sucks, because he's not spewy, but I'm obviously never folding this. AsKx is in his range, QJ, a set, and smaller flushes like J9, 89, 78 and maybe some suited Jx hands - he's been limping really wide. So I semi-snap call and he has A5. GG me, I semi bubble again, out in 6th with 3 spots paid.

So sick. So, so sick. I barely went to showdown the entire tournament, and then that. I'm playing such beautiful tournament poker. One outed earlier in the week, this tonight, disgusting. I'm saving it all for that one remaining WSOP ME satellite obviously, and I'm totally going to ship it.

The more I think about it, I really should have folded the last hand... We were deep enough to find a lay down. I played my A+ game until that hand and then said, well I have the second nuts I can't fold... But I can fold the second nuts, at least I should be able to. He's never, ever, ever bluffing there and I don't think he is ever not showing up with the nuts.

I suck at poker sometimes, sorry for blowing another final table guys, I'm going to take one down for you soon. Specifically the main event satellite. Learn and improve. Every tournament you bust, you try to learn something from. I've learned a lot lately, and this one is going to piss me off til I take one down. Specifically, I intend to ship the main event satellite by the end of the month. Book it.

Thanks for the good vibes man... I'll get the next one!

Changing the Diet Plan

I simply haven't had much success with the Bulletproof Rapid Fat Loss Protocol for a number of reasons. First, it's tough to follow when I get up at 3:45 am and finish a shift at 10am 1.5 hours from home. Trying to go 8 hours (from my first drink to my second) on that little sleep without any calories is rough, and I continually have broken down and gotten food. Secondly, the bad breath from ketosis is an issue at the poker table and they don't sell gum at Borgata, so I've been using mints, which have carbs. Third, the other "issues," associated with a liquid diet are not ideal when you aren't at home.

So I've decided to go back to the last thing I was having success with - basically following paleo guidelines, but eating whenever I'm hungry and stopping eating as soon as I'm full. It will involve a lot of natural, non-processed foods first and foremost. I'll try to avoid dairy, legumes, grains and all processed foods. This won't be 100%, for example, I wouldn't consider a Chipotle burrito with chicken, veggies, rice, beans and cheese a disaster cheat meal, but I won't make a habit of it.

This strategy has a lot of advantages, but also some disadvantages.

Pros

1. Easier to follow

2. Works more conveniently

3. Getting out of line with it doesn't force you to reset, it is more of a blip on the radar.

4. More energy to exercise.

Cons

1. Tough to find items to eat on the run or staying in a casino. I'll take some salads with me and I'm thinking hard boiled eggs for breakfast, then nuts and hard boiled eggs during sessions.

2. Slower results - but slow and steady is better than nothing at all, and I may punctuate it with some 3-5 day attempts at the RFLP or a juice fast here and there.

Anyone who has suggestions for good paleo/natural foods at the poker table, let me know. They should be easy to carry, preferably able to be eaten hands free, and should last at least 4-6 hours unrefrigerated. I'm going to look for a small cooler to put in my drawstring backpack, but I don't know if I'll find any.