Thanks! I do make a point of trying to reply to every post in here and to be active in the poker community in a positive way.


With the preface that without seeing a bunch of hand histories, etc, anything is possible, that does seem like a high frequency of 10K downswings without contributing to it with poor play at times. When you limit it to $5 BB cash games my worst downswing is 8.5K. I've had worse but they include MTTs and 5/T.

I tend to worry more about the long term winrate - for example I know one good pro who wins more consistently than I do with fewer downswings but makes about 2bb/hr less. He's crushing the game but I don't want to give up 2bb/hr to reduce volatility.

If your long term winrate is good over 3K hours, just focus on maintaining your A game, not tilting, etc. Most, but not all, players make downswings worse due to tilt/mental game. This can happen in many ways, including before a session even starts.

Also keep in mind that if you run bad in straddled pots for a month or two, that can contribute in a huge way.

All that said, 5-6 10K 2/5 downswings in 3K hours is a ton, and I'd definitely suggest digging a little deeper to try to make improvements.

I'd be willing to take this bet if you put up a similar amount of money as the other one and end your thread if I win.

It actually proves my point better, that any decent low to mid stakes grinder currently playing online in europe is about 3 years better than 98% of the american live players who call themselves professionals.

So this is how ridiculous prop bets happen. Everybody got egos they can't control.

Who gives a **** if European grinders are better than US live pros? Good for them.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

its not freakin newsflash that live poker is much easier than online lol

Cliffs:

-rando euro grinder is upset that cuse can make a living off live games that he has no access to
-challenges cuse to prop bet that makes no sense for cuse to make himself feel better that his games are tougher

Butt hurt euro trash itt, make sure to bring your scarf and douche attitude to the WSOP while you tank every ****ing hand.

Hey I got me a bunch of apples. Phuc u mother fukker I got me a bunch of oranges

:thumbsup: well said

I agree with you, but there are ways in which live poker is harder/different than online poker, and you're going to have to figure them out and some of them are going to drive you crazy. I've seen online guys struggle/get annoyed trying to adjust and refuse to make certain changes that are hugely +EV.

Anyway, I'd be willing to put up a huge amount of money on this bet after the WSOP, but you'd have to get a significant sample size which will take you several months. You could do your first 750-1000 hours in my region vs. mine. There would have to be some other stipulations, though. Some to protect you, some to protect me. I don't doubt you'd beat the games if you beat anything reasonable online. I don't think you'll sniff my winrate without running really hot, which is possible in that samples size I suppose, so maybe you'd luckbox it.

I'm not ending my thread either way though, that's ridiculous. A) Hopefully it helps some people. B) I enjoy it (most of the time). C) It has some value to me. D) It's entertaining to some people. E) It annoys the hell out of some other people, most of whom I'm glad it annoys.

I'd agree most US live pros wouldn't crush the games over there, and might not even beat them - I haven't played in ROW games in so many years it's hard for me to say. There are definitely people who make a living at live poker who aren't very good, though. Some of us are very good, though.

I'd still much rather be playing a mix of the two, if the government would allow it.

Pretty much.

All I can think of is that guy you called clock on at the WSOP when we ended up on the same 5/T table and I bluffed him with 23o or some such trash. That guy was quite butt hurt.

Thanks!

for the down syndromers who are ad homing me, I grew up in america. feel free to pm me when u want, although I have the strong feeling you're just spewing.

later bros.

engrish pleeze

well technically my residence if you check my passport and birth certificate is east of miss river so....... no

youre a fish just stop

he never ever ever never ever responds to me especialy after he beat me in a prop bet, thats pretty fishy no???

whoa whoa whoa chill

ohhhh yea **** that

youre not an american youre a FRAUD and anyone who isnt an american is a FRAUD

also my dog just bit me cause i cuddled him too much so yea **** you cuserouder you piece of **** no name mother****er who cant even beat 100nl bovada

edit: eat that broccoli cuserounder its all you got kid you horrible poker player

Is anyone disagreeing with you? The player pool online is much harder than live, why wouldn't your players skill levels be superior?

If you want to come to my region, play at the two casinos I've logged hours at here, and try to outdo my winrate in my first 1K hours here at 2/5, that's a bet I'd take for sure, and I'm pretty sure I can rustle up as much action as you want on it if the amount I can take isn't enough for you. Logistically, no way in hell I'm dealing with it before the WSOP, but after that we can talk.

Where is your current domicile? Where is it relative to the Mississippi River?



Don't hate!

I responded on this page, plus now.

Tell him, Duke. We train, we eat our vitamins, we say our prayers, we believe in ourselves... We're real Americans. WHATCHA GONNA DO, BROTHER, WHEN AMERICAN LIVE CASH GAME GRINDERS RUN WILD ON YOU?



Drink less IMO.

Overall they are, that doesn't mean there aren't a few beasts out here playing live, too, though.

On line play was much easier than live. But that was before tracking software and HUDs. There are many more factors to deal with live. I loved it when obvious on line players would sit down at my table after the federal govt unconstitutionally shut down on line play (Black Friday). My favorite line before the young cocky ex online player busted, after him and his buddie sandwiched me by seat change - "what hands DO YOU PLAY?"
I would side bet cuse live, side bet the online wizard, online. Yup apples and oranges.

hmm I dont know about sidebetting cuse over an actual online wizard, fishfood or w/e his id is is not a wizard though, he is some micro or midstakes MTT player which involves a lot of random clicks usually. Like nobody in their right mind would sidebet cuse over otb_redbaron or some other online wiz even in a live setting, not meant to offend cuse at all obviously and I don t think he will take it as such

Just be real men and play heads up

Yeah, but will on-line be heads up against a bot?

I don't take offense to you taking the online wizard online, but people on here do forget that I played a ton online from 2004-2008. I know the games were different then, but that also sped up my progression as a player and is a big part of why I'm better overall than a lot of other live players. I had this conversation with another pro around my age about why the young grinders today (21-24) aren't as good as the last crop of young grinders - they don't have online play available to them as readily.

I cut my teeth at a mix of live and online games when I started playing, which I view as a big strength/point of pride. It kept me from turning into a hoodies/shades/headphones punk, while also keeping me from having a lot of leaks live only players might have. I kind of got the best of both worlds. Mainly, that happened because I was just lucky to go away to college right after Moneymaker and happened to have an 18+ Native American casino 30 mins away, along with some juicy dorm live SNGs that were 6-10 handed and I probably made the final three like 90+% of the time lol... Those were the days! Party Poker, dorm room sit n gos and Turning Stone. I wouldn't want to give up my college years, but $EV wise looking back, dropping out would have made me rich.

Wait, he's a TOURNAMENT player? Well, that changes everything! I don't know who otb_redbaron is, I'm better with real names. Like assuming he's some beast who crushes bigger cash games online, no offense taken. I'd take him over me heads up live in that case. I'd still take myself over him full ring live in the same 2/5 player pool for the first 1K hours, though.

A simple yet unrealistic solution. I'd do it for a small amount of time (ie no real sample size anyway) and a realistic amount of money (like a heads up 2-3K 2/5 freezeout). It'd be more for fun and trash talk than anything else. Realistically there's no reason for two winning players to play heads up for any long amount of time, they're just value cutting themselves massively. I can assure you both of our hourlies are higher elsewhere.

Realistically you Lock in a weaker opponent for a set amount of hands further increasing your skill edge the more hands you play. Over the course of the match your winnings increase and your opponent has an increased incentive to stop playing you. With a large enough sidebet Heads up battles are very profitable. See jungleman and durr, Ivey and Andy Beal, and so on.

With a large sample size or a huge skill edge, yes. Jungleman and Durrr is a unique case and I don't know all of the details, but I'd imagine those guys had a tough time finding action regularly at the stakes they wanted. Beal, at least at the beginning, was a massive whale. He also very nearly beat the corporation and would have effectively busted all the big Vegas pros. Heads up variance is massive.

In this case I don't think my edge would create a higher hourly than I already have in my games, plus logistically it's a pain to try to make it happen. Hence I'd do a small sample size for fun/trash talk.

At least you have the fighting spirit!!!!

since none of these bets will ever happen lets play hu on wpn.

Lol