Welcome to my PGC!

First, I will give a brief background on my poker history, followed up with my goals for the challenge.

The main goal before I get started is to play poker while having the support of my fiance.

My pooh-bah post is linked below, which gives my background as a poker player.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...-well-1313339/

I will probably make a more in depth post later, but I am excited to finally get this thread started!

My Background:

I started playing $10 and $20 tournaments at 14 years old.

We eventually start playing larger and larger until we reach $1/2 for $60-100 per buy-in.

During college, I played $1/2 and $2/5 with some small success.

Post college, I played professionally in Arizona for about 18 months. I played 1/2, 2/5 and occasionally 5/10. This was the first time I ever had a separate life roll and poker roll.

Eventually, I moved back to Washington DC. I play anything from 1/2-10/20NL depending on the best game at the time.

Last year, I bought a house and a new AC and a new roof and a new fence and those fun things that come with ownership. This year I purchased an engagement ring and had two large (5k+) emergency expenses due to mother nature. In order to pay for all of this stuff, I recombined my poker and life roll. I have been playing without a real roll for about a year and a half, but never had any issues since I work full-time.

Goals and the Reasons I made this thread:

1. I want to rebuild my poker roll officially. After talking with my fiance (I mean asking for permission), she has agreed to the following terms:

2. My poker roll will start at 5k which I will remove from my bank account. If I lose it all, then I quit poker forever.

3. Accept that I won't be able to play the bigger games for awhile . I am a winner at all stakes through 5/10NL and have a lol winning sample at 10/20NL (less than 50 hours).

4. I will likely play 2-4 times a month, mostly 1/3 since busting my tiny roll means the end of poker for me. I will shoot at 2/5 once I have 8k in my poker roll and stay there until I reach at least $20,000.

5. Poker profits will be divided between three accounts using the following formula until I reach 10k in my roll.

6. Every month I will calculate total profits. Depending on the amount won, I will divide the money as such.

<$500, 50% will be added to the poker roll. 25% will go to replenish the original funds until it reaches 5k, and the remaining 25% will go to a new account used for vacations for her and I

$501-1,000, The first 500 will follow the same formula above. The remaining profit: 75% to poker roll and the remaining split between the original funds and vacation account

$1,001+, The first 1,000 will be calculated by the rules above. For any additional profit(s): 15% will go to the vacation fund and 85% to my poker roll.

Quick example:
Starting roll $5,000

During the month I played 4 times and recorded the following:

+$800
-$350
+1125
-$400
______________________________
Profits: $1,175

The three accounts would look like this:


Poker $5,773.75
Vacation $213.75
Original Funds: $4,812.5 left to pay off

As you can see, this may take awhile to build a proper roll!

7.



My first session will likely happen this week or next week. Here is hoping to a fast start so I can get to $10,000 and move up to 2/5.

I am taking suggestions on poker apps for android. I currently have Poker Agent, but the graph feature sucks and I know how much everyone loves giraffes.

GL GL! Subbing 1st

Math on the bankroll left my head spinning!

2rd!
Glglgl!
Sent from my SPH-L710 using 2+2 Forums

Good luck! I will be following this thread. I like how you are going about doing all this.

So basically you can never go busto for the rest of your life or you have to quit poker?

IMO, this is a bad idea. You should have never made the quit poker agreement.

Raymer-esque imo. Just don't get caught with hookers.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using 2+2 Forums

sup bruhs

QUOTE: 2. My poker roll will start at 5k which I will remove from my bank account. If I lose it all, then I quit poker forever. QUOTE

Like the idea of your challenge, but as APD said this 5k limit is a very dangerous commitment. If you really stick to 1-3 exclusively you might be ok, but variance can be a bitch as you know. Since you have a job no need to say 5k and I'm out. You should better say something like I'll play the 5k and not take out more while that is the bankroll but if it busts I'll start over with another 5k. Would you really quit poker forever if you lost the 5K?

When I was your age I did not really worry about separating poker bankroll from life roll - it was all one pot of money and I figured if I went broke I could always rebuild. Did get down to seeds and stems a few times but always managed to come back. For the last 20 years I have maintained a separate poker bankroll, and fortunately never busted it.

I've not commented in the chat discussion on "how do you win over the wife" but what I've done is something like Bip posted. For many years I've basically paid my wife as follows: when I cash out for something other than even hundreds she gets the "spare change" - for example if I win $970 she gets the exta $70. If I lose I still give $50 to her slush fund. Plus she always gets any $50 bill that comes my way.

I do keep honest records of wins/losses in a spreadsheet, which I've shared with my wife in the past (she doesn't ask any more FWIW). I also keep plenty of loose cash around that she sees and she's comfortable I'm not likely to lose the house or break our joint bank account. And the last couple of times we've needed a new car I've paid for it out of my poker roll, which probably helps.

Your formula for building the roll and parsing out money between bankroll, vacation fund, and "repaying the investment" seems overly complicated to me but if it works for you go for it. The main thing your fiance needs to understand is that the 5K is an investment and like any investment there is some risk. But the upside is much greater than with most available investments at that funding level.

Good luck, will be following the thread.

Thanks for all of the well wishes!

I typically perform well with my back against the wall. I know how variance goes, but 16.5 buy-ins is certainly doable for a 1/3 roll. If I can't beat 1/3 while running bad then I probably shouldn't be playing poker more than socially.

I lost all my data for the last 2 years when my phone crashed. The only results I have saved are from the End of May through today, which isn't a whole lot. I will be backing them up in excel in addition to what ever app I download.

I will have my first session tonight after a work event, which means laying off the sauce. Well maybe just one . If anyone has a good app for Android, I would really appreciate it.

Maybe over time she will grow more fond (or apathetic) to the idea of playing poker and decide that she wouldn't want me to quit even if the roll was lost. Either way, it would be nice to get this challenge started with a win.

run good tonight Start of PCG is certain boom switch

Poker session logger for Android is good and free. Have fun building your roll, 5k should be plenty to work with.

+1 for married playing teh pokerz!

Subbed, GL!

I haven't quite decided on how to format these updates yet. I am going to try a few different methods and see what you guys prefer.

Session 1:

Well that sure was swingy! My stack oscillated like it was on a bungee cord. I played for over 7 hours got in for 400 big blinds over the course of 3 buy-ins, but managed to book a decent win.

I made 3 sizable mistakes and took 2 rough beats. I played AK very poorly two times and didn't fire an obvious 3rd barrel against what was surely bottom pair or 2nd from the bottom. I also lost twice AIPF KK v QQ ($450 pot) and JJ vs AQo v KQo ($1,100 pot).

Butchered hand:

Effective stacks are 1k
Villain-was playing TAG with a slightly higher 3b %. He was just coasting along until he decided to make a big move vs the fish (calling station) and got snapped off by TPWK. Villain has built his stack back from ~500 to ~1000 over the past few orbits.

Hero has a TAG image, but has opened up his game since becoming 4 handed. UTG folds, BN limps, hero (SB) raises to 21 with AK, Villain (BB) calls and BN calls.

Flop (66)
A76
BN looks disinterested and is telegraphing a fold.
Hero checks, Villain bets 35, BN folds, hero calls 35

Turn (136)
A76 3

Hero checks intending to raise, Villain checks behind

River (136)

A76 3 J

Hero tanks and bets $55, Villain snap raises to $150. Hero tanks and spew-calls.

Villain is likely checking back straights and one pair hands with SDV on the turn like 87 & weak Aces, barreling sets, continuing with 2 pair and has a mix of firing the second barrel with turned combo draws (pair+ fd/ pair+sd). The only two pair hands I expect him to check back top two a decent amount of the time, but not 67 or A3. A6 is probably a mixture.

His raise on the end is small in relation to the pot, giving me ~3.5:1 on a call. Villain's bet looks like straight value. I am under-repped with my line on the flop and turn. In addition my river bet is weak. My hand looking more like 99/TT.

His value range is probably something like:

45, J7, A3, A6, A7, 67 (discounted), A9/T/J

Air:
89, 9T (discounted), a few combo's of busted combo draws

All in all, I don't beat much of his value range and he has little to no air based on his sizing. I believe busted draws are either firing the second barrel or raising much bigger on the end. I absolutely hate, hate, hate this hand. Completely butchered.


Profit:
+663
Session Length:
7.4 hours
Session Grade:
5.5/10

I didn't get home until 3:30 am. My fiance wasn't very happy with me because I told her that I was planning to be home between 1 and 2 am. I will need to improve upon this if I am going to get her on board. It can be hard to pick-up and go when the game is still good. She was angry, but I got lucky because I was able to inform her the exciting news that our engagement photos had been delivered to my email earlier that evening. So instead of staying mad, we turned on the computer and looked through bout Tree-fiddy pictures. Whew, saved by the bell.

Nice start to the challenge!

Hand 1:
Seems like a lot of Fancy Play Syndrome to me OTF and OTT.

Given villain's aggressive nature and that he limp-called on this hand pre-flop 4 handed, he range should be a lot of garbage. I would not think there would be any Ax (even rag Ax), no PP, no gap-less suited connectors.

I would think his range would be a ton of offsuit connectors, weak Ks and Qs and Js(K8-, Q9-, J9- etc) and some gapped suited stuff.

Now, I don't know a good way to get value out of him on the flop, as if your range was PP and broadways, then he does not have a single hand that he should be calling with OTF aside from 76... but regardless, I still lead out and count on them to level themselves or to stick around for one street with 7x or 6x, 98o, 85o, 54o.

Given the check did receive a bet, I am going to check-raise flop right away. I believe he bets with air (be happy with one street and take initiative back), and he bets with all 7x,6x,76... with the 76 obviously being a minority of his range.

The 3 OTT does not change much IMO, you still should be ahead of well over half of his range. I would lead out here because your flop call really makes your range look like 99-KK (weaker Aces were removed preflop), but a turn lead makes your range very contradictory (why would those hands lead??).. and you may induce a lot of bad plays from villain.

Given you checked to him, he is almost always going to check behind except with hands that beat you (67)... gearing up for showdown... or maybe some hands that are semibluffing (T8hh?).. but those are few.

So yes, your hand is now under-repped for sure.

OTR - I am torn what to do because your line has been so fancy. If he is aggro, I guess check-call is a possibility, although I think the lead is correct. You can get a lot of calls from 7x and such that will bluff catch here and would have checked behind otherwise.

Given that he raised river, I am not sure what to think. It is a very polarizing bet from him. He has TPTK beat or he has complete air. But the problem is, very few complete air hands made it here (they would have 2nd barreled turn)... so although I can't figure out his hand, maybe 45, maybe J7/J6?, I guess this is a fold.

Villain was the BB, I was the small blind. The button limped

Oops- that certainly puts some better hands in his range pre-flop. My mistake. All the more reason though to lead the flop and get value from Ax.

You are absolutely correct. I really hated this and tried to get tricky with the BN folding 100% of the time. I hoped the villain would stab at the flop and barrel a reasonable amount of turns. FPS for sure.

1/2 at Charlestown. Time to be patient and not push the action too much. Dropping down from even the 1/3 on Tuesday is a huge difference in terms of action and stack sizes.

Session 2:

I took the day off of work to go play golf with my dad. After hacking it up on the course, my fiance told me if I could go play poker if I removed the weeds from the garden first.

After sweating my ass off in 105 degrees for an hour, I was able to get an early start to my poker session. Unfortunately, I left around 315 which meant I caught the beginning of DC rush hour. The drive took me 90 minutes instead of 55-60, had I left just 10-15 minutes prior.

I arrived at Ctown and saw that there were open seats at 1/2 and 2/5. I decided that I would play 1/2, but scout for a good 2/5 in the process. 1/2 was pretty uneventful. I didn't pick up any hands, but stole a few small-medium pots betting scare cards. I was up about 200-250, but lost the majority of my profit on two occasions where I iso'ed a fish and then basically the whole table cold called! There weren't any interesting spots. I spent a ton of time folding my way to +$25

I eventually found a good 2/5 table and played there for a few hours. Since my roll is so small I decided to take a one buy-in shot, with an extra 100 for topping off (basically 2 1/2 buy-ins). The table was very good as I folded to 3-4 orbits to start it off. I opened UTG for 20 and went 8 ways to the flop. Next time I opened to 30 and still went 5 way. I eventually mixed between 30 and 35 for opening size with a pretty tight range due to table dynamics. I only played 6-7 hands in this session.

Hand 1:
effective 440 (didn't have a chance to top off)
5 limps to Hero in the sb who raises to $40 with 99, all fold except Villain in MP.

Villain is pretty spewy and has tons of gambool. He is one of the spots at this table. I have seen him stick in over 100bb's with 2nd pair decent kicker in a 4 way pot that was raised preflop. I am ready to go the distance on a lot of run outs and pot control when necessary.

Flop ($100 with 400 stacks)
752
Hero bets $65. Villain makes it $190. Hero tank calls.

-Based on what I have seen from the villain, I am comfortable stacking off and won't really ever fold the turn. I choose to flat instead of shipping so that he continues with all of his bluffs on the turn.

Turn ($480 with $210
8d
I don't love the turn, but I am committed. I did pick up some equity against the hands that were ahead on the flop.

I check and snap the $210.

The river is a 7. The villain announces that he has 2 pair and flips over A2 with the A. Hero scoops the pot.

I am pretty busy today at work since I had yesterday off. I may add another hand or two later if I have some time.


Profit:
1/2NL: +$25
2/5NL: +$688
Total: +$713
Session Length:
7.2 hours
Session Grade:
7/10

My session was pretty ABC, but I was happy with my ability to not go all FPS being card dead. I shut down when appropriate and repped a few scare cards at 1/2. My c-betting was pretty non-existent (without a value hand) due to the amount of players seeing flops.

I made it home by 125am, which is an improvement.

Total profit: $1,376
Hourly: $94.13

If my month ended today, ~$945 of the profit would be added to my roll and the remaining portion would be split accordingly to the other two accounts.

I started using Poker Session Logger per your suggestion. Poker agent is much more complicated looking and seems like it would be way better, but it doesn't give some of the stats that PSL. I also like the graph options better on PSL.

Thanks for the rec!

Yeh - awesome rec. Just installed it ) It should help with seeing how much ROI is :P

I just wanted to comment on this a bit more. When rolled, I crush 2/5 and am a favorite at most 5/10 tables. This makes it less risky to go bust as long as I manage my roll well (i.e. no tilting and not playing under-rolled at bigger games). I may even choose to sell action on occasion if there is a really good game going on.

I believe that the main risk of going busto is within the first few months. Luckily, I have started off the challenge in the positive direction. Once I am able to build this to 20+ buy-ins at my stake, I will have a very small possibility of going broke. I am starting with ~16.5 buy-ins for 1/2 or 1/3 NL (300 max). Once I reach 7.5k, I will have 25 buy-ins for 1/3 and be in a pretty safe zone.

Due to the stakes of going bust, I may play more over-rolled for 2/5+. Probably 20 buy-ins for shooting more often at 2/5 and move down immediately if I drop below 18 full buy-ins. I anticipate making the full leap at 25 buy-ins. I likely won't move up to 5/10 or beyond with less than 30 buy-ins, but will shot take for 1-2 buy-ins.

*Small update- my fiance has agreed to let me build my roll up to 10k before dividing up profits based on the formula outline in the OP. Instead, I will likely still put money away into the vacation account each winning month, but cap it at $375. The loan (from myself) will be deferred until I reach a roll of 10k. I haven't told her this yet so hopefully this will buy me some goodwill! This should give me a lot more breathing room since I will be able to grow my roll faster with the additional 18.75%** (plus the extra 15% of +1,000 months).

For those confused on the maths:

0.25 500 125
0.125 500 62.5
1000 187.5
18.75%

**This assumes profits of exactly $1,000 per month.

sub'ed. glgl.

I had this thread locked last month due to a few things going on at work and home. This led me to believe I wouldn't be playing much poker in the coming months, thus making it crazy to have a PGC thread. Now that it seems to be stabilizing, I have decided to re-open this thread and continue from plan to build a viable bankroll.

Since the lock, I have played 5 sessions. I won't make separate posts about them, but I will give the profit/loss from each by stake and my total profit figures.

Session 3:
1/3 NL: +1140
Session Length:
5.5 hours

Session 4:
1/2 NL : +364
2/5 NL: -494
Total Profit: -130
Session Length:
10 hours

Session 5:
1/3 NL: +1100
Session Length:
4.3 hours

Session 6:
1/2 NL: -13
2/5 NL: +30
Total Profit: +17
Session Length:
5.48 hours

Session 7:
1/2 NL: -5 (1 hand before my name was called)
2/5 NL: +55
Total Profit: +50
Session Length:
5.48 hours


I am disappointed in my play from sessions 6 & 7. I bluffed a little too much and got deep in the games early making -EV decisions. Both sessions involved get 1000-1400 into the game and clawing my way back to tiny wins. There were 2-3 pots from both sessions that I could have easily saved another $200-400 per session. I need to refocus some and not worry about playing with a time limit.

I will be heading to MD Live on Friday to play in the new poker room. I am currently debating how I should approach it from a timing standpoint. This is what I cam up with in the chat thread:


"option 1: wake up at 3-4am and get there by 4/5am
pros: play with people who are deep/stuck/tired/get a quick seat
cons: less table selection, its 4am or 5am, will only be able to play until like 4/5 pm without being tired, thus missing on some great night time action

option 2: wake up around 7 am and be there by ~8am
pros: maybe still some tired players/will be able to comfortably play until 12/1 am I think
cons: little to no game selection/rush hour

option 3: sleep in until 8/9 am, get there around ~10am
pros: can play until ~130am/most refreshed/ maybe a few lingering tired players/ more table selection
cons: wait list for seat/tail end of rush hour/games less deep


I am leaning towards #2 "

What do you guys think is the best option from the ones I came up with?

Also giraffe:



I am excited to be re-opening this and continuing with my challenge. Thanks for the support.

Definitely 2 or 3. 1 seems silly, for both action and traffic purposes (Friday before LD traffic almost as bad as day of White House X-mas tree lighting traffic).

I'd probably personally go with 3, but I can see the merits of 2.