The problem is you can't have the chosen ones deciding what people should do and what decisions they should make.

Having free people along with the bill rights and people having civil liberties is what works best.

My body my choice.

Oh, here's more:

Poster 2:

You misunderstand me, I am not merely concerned about this because of my potential "poker experience". The implications of the quarantine order are much more far reaching than that. It has shut down most businesses and any major social activities. It has made finding a job impossible and put a decent percentage of people out of work. It is a sign of gross government overreach and a violation of freedom.

People are dying in record numbers? Really? 2.5 million people die every year in the United States. Most of them are old and die because of disease. Coronavirus added 100,000 to that number. Most of those people that die from it are old too. Maybe by the end of the year it will be at 250,000. So its a 10% increase in death for one year, and in return we sacrifice the quality of life for virtually everyone and permanently destroy the economy. And how many of those people that you "save" with social distancing would end up dying later on down the line from coronavirus anyway? Probably most of them. What about people who are dying of other medical conditions that cant use medical services now? Screw them, coronavirus is more important. Yes, seems like quite a good idea doesn't it?

If youre so worried about death from disease, how much money have you contributed to medical research over your life? A significant amount I hope given how much value you place on stopping it..

DumbosTrunk:

So, the generation that made it possible for us to be speaking English and not German right now -- by sacrificing a lot for us, no less -- can also go to hell just so that we don't go through another recession. I hear you loud and clear. "Thanks for everything, grandma and grandpa, but now die." Not to mention all the other high-risk classes, immunocompromised and otherwise ill individuals regardless of age. But I guess they matter less too because they were weak and were gonna die eventually as well?

I do not want to live in a society that would be so eager and willing to cull its sick and elderly in order to protect its economy, which is what you are suggesting. In a first-world country - the greatest country on Earth, as so many tout - that's an abomination.

Poster 2:

I dont understand why speaking English or German makes any difference. If youre suggesting the world could still be under Nazi control without the US's involvement in World War 2, I think the political instabilities of such a far reaching dictatorship would have made that an impossibility for more than a decade after the end of war.. And that's not really the generation we are talking about here anyway, those people have mostly died 10-30 years ago. Maybe only a few % of them are left. The people that sacrificed for that freedom and those that benefited have passed on already.

The reason age matters is because death is inevitable. You are merely putting it off by being not being "culled". So it matters how many extra years of life you are getting.

Its not that the old and immunocompromised matter less, its that helping them is too costly for everyone else. You can making driving a car illegal too, and it would save all the idiots that would drive around recklessly and run into a tree and kill themselves. And inconvience everyone else. But we don't do that do we?

Think about it like this, if for every 1 immunocompromised or old person that benefits from social distancing, 100 others suffer, by forcing social distancing youre really saying that immunocompromised and old people matter more than other people, not less.

DumbosTrunk:

So I guess since most of the WWII-generation have passed as you say (including my grandmother, who died earlier this month shortly after contracting COVID), the boomer generation is next, my (our?) parents (aged 65 and therefore in higher-risk category) included. They certainly benefited from the sacrifices of their parents, just as we have. How many of them should go? Shall we cut many more of them for the good of the economy too? And what of all those otherwise sick and immunocompromised, but young? You never explained why their lives were worth any less than the common economic good.

And what do you say to the doctors and nurses working tirelessly to save lives, jobs which would be immensely harder if not for the policies that have been put in place up until now? (Compare Italy, where they had to choose which patients got beds and ventilators and which did not.)

Economies rebound over and over again throughout history, but we all only get one life. At bottom, what you are complaining of is mere economic strife, a temporary inconvenience. To use your car analogy, the measures we are employing now are like wearing a seat belt, and the pandemic is an impending car accident. People hemmed and hawed back then, too, but we made it happen because requiring seat belts saved lives. That was more important than the opinions of people complaining about how inconvenient and uncomfortable it was to wear them.

Good Samaritan:

Quote:

You misunderstand me, I am not merely concerned about this because of my potential "poker experience". The implications of the quarantine order are much more far reaching than that. It has shut down most businesses and any major social activities. It has made finding a job impossible and put a decent percentage of people out of work. It is a sign of gross government overreach and a violation of freedom.
--

Once people started to die at a high clip and hospitals emergency rooms and ICU's were overrun people started to make the decision to not go out or when they went out to do so cautiously.

This started happening about a week before the first state issued a "shutdown" order.

The federal government has only issued guidance. Each state government has taken their own initiative based on how the onslaught hit their state.

Quote:
People are dying in record numbers? Really? 2.5 million people die every year in the United States. Most of them are old and die because of disease. Coronavirus added 100,000 to that number. Most of those people that die from it are old too. Maybe by the end of the year it will be at 250,000. So its a 10% increase in death for one year, and in return we sacrifice the quality of life for virtually everyone and permanently destroy the economy.
--

lol.

If we had done nothing it is likely that about 70% of our population would have been infected. Probably more.

With a death rate unknown at present but likely at 0.5% to 0.8% (currently the death rate seems much higher in the US but that is because we have a limited idea of how many people actually have the disease).

So with no action taken to mitigate the damage, Covid-19 related deaths would have been between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 in the US this year assuming that we could have treated everyone who got sick.

However, because hospitals would have been overrun as they were in Italy, many more would have died due to lack of treatment (ventilators save about 20% to 30% of patients).

The other problem is that people with other deadly ailments would be less likely to get treatment in a hospital and some would die at home afraid of going to the hospital and getting infected.

Quote:
And how many of those people that you "save" with social distancing would end up dying later on down the line from coronavirus anyway? Probably most of them.
--

No.

What we are doing is giving the government time to set up proper testing and tracing.

The tracing is starting now in many states. But the testing is still screwed up because of the way the government (including the CDC) has handled it to date.

If you look at countries that have ramped up testing effectively and do contact tracing, like South Korea, Australia, New Zealand and even Germany, you see that not a lot of people are dying of Covid-19 per capita.

Quote:
What about people who are dying of other medical conditions that cant use medical services now? Screw them, coronavirus is more important. Yes, seems like quite a good idea doesn't it?
--

This is actually a powerful argument for shutting down economically until hospitals are able to handle the flow of emergency patients.

Which ironically is what has happened in virtually every state.

I just went to the Emergency Room in NY because my bladder shut down. They were prepared to see me with every doctor, nurse, and administrator wearing proper medical gear (masks and even shields). I received treatment immediately and have recovered.

At 64 if I catch covid-19 I would have probably a 2% to 3% chance of dying. So I am very fortunate that in NY the steps the state government have taken (albeit a few weeks too late) have reduced the hospitalizations due to Covid-19 substantially.

Quote:
If you're so worried about death from disease, how much money have you contributed to medical research over your life? A significant amount I hope given how much value you place on stopping it..
--

Not sure what this has to do with anything.

As a member of US society we all contribute to medical research. Ironically a vaccine for prior coronavirus strains was not able to be produced, though they tried. Probably in part because they were easily contained otherwise.

Now we all hope for an early vaccine.

But short of that if we pretend that it is worth having people die with no efforts at mitigation, then the people will shut down voluntarily. You will see this in states that open up religious gatherings.

In NY the first case spread profusely in New Rochelle (close to where I live) primarily because the infected man attended a Bar Mitzvah and a Synagogue. His children also spread it at school and other social events.

Even if you opened all economic activity, people wouldn't comply. The death rate for 10 to 20 year olds right now who get Covid is about 0.1% to 0.2%. What parent in their right mind would send their kid to a summer camp knowing that on average one or two kids there is likely to die from Covid-19?

Similarly, young people who work in congested areas (like meat packing plants or office buildings) will be thinking twice about going to work knowing that about 5 people per thousand at work will die without proper social distancing measures and protective gear.

I am all for re-opening society. But it must be done in a way that the entire population is willing to participate. To pretend that nobody cares about older people in their lives or that older people will be willing to risk their lives so that you can prosper is not real.

Estimates show now that if we went back to normal, lifting all protective measures it would take between 3 weeks and two months before individual states would be swamped with Covid-19 patients in their emergency rooms and the total US estimates would be back to 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 or possibly more. Check out this website if you are curious.

If you want to read more on this discussion: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...6/index15.html.

On an unrelated note, live poker >> online poker.

I tried PokerBros for like . . . a few days . . . it sucks. Also heard random guys speaking Spanish in the background at some point today? -$100. Done.

#eithermymedsareofforthisshitisrigged

Dumbo's famous white chocolate macadamia and hazelnut cookies? Yes. They are legendary.

It's not the meds, it's just that you can't accept losing hands where you're only 56% to win. As my mother-in-law says, toughen up buttercup.

The meds was more a reference to hearing random people speaking a foreign language in the background of an app that doesn't have audio enabled.

But I agree those hands I posted in the Omaha thread were mainly bbv. I just hadn't played PLO in a few weeks. How quickly I forget.

Quarantine protesters: "Freedom to die!"



Floyd protesters: "Freedom to live!"

Lately my poker playing has been limited to PokerBros home games, mostly with some friends from live poker "days." (So much we must refer to in the past tense now...!) I am down in tourneys (surprise, surprise) but up in cash, still slightly in the red overall.

My mental illness reared its ugly head much worse than usual recently. Beyond "just" depression - psychosis. This time, the delusions ran the gambit, from being killed by an angry mob (white guilt?), to being killed by an angry gestapo (fear of political persecution?), to (last night) not being able to breathe automatically. Just too many stressors in the country and world right now for my poor brain to handle on just a low dose of medication. I had to up the meds (added one too) and am sheltering in place. The pharmaceutical ad that autoplays during my YouTube videos comes to mind: a male actor with a dull voice starts, "Living with schizophrenia . . . ."

It sucks. But at least my illness -whatever label (bipolar, schizo, other) you give it - does not pop up too often. Just need to over-medicate and stay close to home for a little while. Friends I have told have been super supportive. And this time, I recognized my symptoms for what they were and was not completely overcome by the paranoia. "This too shall pass." But, there sure are a lot of things that need to pass now.

Huge step. Congratulations, man. I mean, the flare-up sucks, but when you can see it for what it is, it is so much easier to cope with to avoid collateral damage.

+1

I'd suggest completely ignoring the news / TV / etc. and perhaps try taking your mind off things by burying yourself in a project of some sort?

GgoodluckG

How about if your brain sticks in that mode?

Yeah if your prone to any kind of psychosis you have to be careful what media and what kinds of things you expose yourself to. Don't watch the news. It's fear media.

All good ideas guys. I have not been reading the paper, no TV, no forums (oops), etc. Lots of friend time and positive activities - walks, some free poker, exercise, MEDS, chatting with friends and telling them what's going on and hearing their and your support is huge. Garick is right that having self-awareness this time made the difference between completely decompensating and ending up in the hospital again and my incredibly quick rebound.

Tonight went for a longer walk with my headphones on, listened to my favorite music, was pretty happy actually! Even did a couple tae kwon do kicks to boost my strength and confidence. "Kicking this disease's ass!" I feel very blessed that my meds are kicking in so quickly and I am not the wreck I was turning into a night or two ago. So thankful.

Thank you all.

You're welcome.

I am hanging in there. Feel a little drowsy but that is apparently a side effect of one of my meds. I can do this. Slept like a baby last night.

Home game online last night around a fire pit was fun.

Only hand of note: raise by "table hero" (PokerBros name for maniac), I 3! AA $8.40, BTN cold calls (range TT+ AK, AQs), maniac calls. Flop ($25): K-Q-6r. X/$8.50, BTN raises all in $23, fold, call but not happy, lose to QQ. Ever find a fold? BTN is decent, but not necessarily "tight."

Thought I'd check in. At the beginning of the week, my psychiatrist told me to find a different doctor by the end of the month, which was very difficult due to the manner in which things ended. It may have involved her claiming I didn't appreciate her and her exclaiming "black lives matter, well brown lives matter, too!" (she's of Indian descent) and telling me to look up myself the side effects of a drug she had recommended since "you're learned, you're a lawyer." Something's obviously not right with her to treat a patient recovering from a mental health crisis that way, so all for the better. But it still hurt to be accused of racism when I was already going through such a rough patch. The sad irony is that I was out protesting earlier in the week and have dedicated most of my career to social justice.

To survive, I made a desperate decision to start attending free bar poker again, which recently opened up outdoors. So far the results are good, at least from a mental heath standpoint. I have structure again and playing live provides a level of focus that I was missing.

I'm just going by your brief quote but don't see where she accused you of racism.

I (of course) have no idea why she would drop you as a patient but it would be very unusual for a psychiatrist to drop a patient because "her claiming I didn't appreciate her". This of course is very different from a claim along the lines of "you never follow my advice/etc." (just an example)...

Like I say, none of us would have any true idea what is going on here but I wonder if it's related to another issue besides race and/or appreciation.

Your statement of "very difficult due to the manner of in which things ended" makes it seem like you're leaving out a big part of the story of why she dropped you.

Be reflective and honest with yourself. I certainly wish you all the best.

I am sure there is more underlying the story. She never articulated those other reasons fully to me so I can only speculate and report what she did say ("you don't appreciate me/brown lives matter/look up the side effects yourself"). I could also tell she was not pleased I was getting second opinions from other people including input from my parents, a family friend who is a psych, and my decision to remain on my one medication and not switch to a second one she was pushing. I tried the second medication and it made me extremely irritable and snappy. So I think part of it was also she was annoyed that I did not take her advice, as you said. But that does not justify her outrageous response which implied that I was treating her differently because of the color of her skin.

At the end of the day, I'm the patient and if I don't like a medication because it isn't working for me, that's my decision. No need to be offended, which she clearly was. As one my my therapists said, I'm not there to stroke her ego - she can get that elsewhere. As another said, everything she told me had nothing to do with me and everything to do with issues she has. Her conduct was totally off the wall unprofessional - shockingly so.

You will never get the truth out of him because he doesnt know himself. His self awareness is shockingly low so he truly has no idea why she dumped him as a patient. All he is certain about along with everything else is it wasnt because of him. He knows this to be true because his stable of enablers told him so.

You missed my point completely.

(With all due respect) I'm questioning behavior left out on YOUR part which is the problem, not behavior on HER part.

When you tell a story you seem to leave a lot of details out concerning your behavior and how that is actually what leads to a negative outcome.

I'm not sure you're a person who is honest with yourself. As others have said, your self awareness needs a lot of work.

~All people have a self-image/identity they carry around inside their head. Yours seems to weigh heavily on "I am right, it's everyone else who is wrong or causes the problem".

Be more reflective. I suggest subscribing to Eckart Tolle on YouTube. Hopefully it will be enlightening for you

I still don't see an accusation of racism here on her part. And don't see where her response is "outrageous". Wouldn't it seem more plausible that she's trying to get you to think on a deeper level?

Free (almost exclusively outside) bar poker been going well, making lots of 1st and 2nd places lately. Small fields, and lolz free bar poker, but still it's something to do. Feeling much better in general, sleeping well, few/no symptoms. Very happy about that.

Registered for MD Live's opening weekend, but not sure I will actually make it. If I do go, it will be for a short session with an (incredibly uncomfortable) N95 mask.