09-10-2019 , 09:34 PM
For the next year I will be following a strict schedule of study and playing to become not terrible at poker. I will study 3 hours a day and play 3 hours a day 1c/2c NLH.

My study framework will consist of the following:

1 hour - Mathematics

1 hour - Game theory

1 hour - Reading and writing out

The start will be basic in all aspects of study, basic mathematics for calculating pot odds, fractions into percentages etc. Game theory will start with understanding ranges, board texture, cbetting etc. Reading and writing out will begin with the grinders manual and writing out chapter by chapter until I understand it.

As I gain more knowledge I will then get more and more advanced. But the structure of the study will remain the same. I will be posting daily in this thread as a way to monitor progress and have extra motivation not to be one of those people who start and then give up after a few weeks.

Chat sh*t get banged - Jamie Vardy.
09-10-2019 , 09:36 PM
That’s a big commitment.

I’m interested and I’ll be reading. GL
09-11-2019 , 04:43 AM
Cool, though watch out for game theory application at 2nl, not so applicable.
09-11-2019 , 01:03 PM
Hey guys thanks for the well wishes.

I am going over pot odds and trying to understand the basic math. I have been using video resources and whatnot and rounding down or up to make things simpler. Have I got this part right?

Pot is 1,987

opponent bets 1,205

reward 3000
risk 1000

3:1 odds

But now I am struggling with the turning the ratio into a fraction and if you are even supposed to. Ive watched about a dozen videos and they all give different shitty information.

For example

pot is 2000

opponent best 1000

so in the reward/risk calculations do I include my best if i called to the total like phil hellmuth suggests? Some of the videos and articles include a call in the reward total, others don't.

If I do include my call it would be

4000 reward

1000 risk

4:1

If I don't

3000 reward

1000 risk

3:1

Now these are ratios, is it nescessary to convert them into fractions and how do you actually do this? Why is maths so ****ing mind numbingly boring? Reading capital was more enjoyable than this arabic mind****.

Edit I have settled on the phil Hellmuth Upswing way which is as follows:

Step 1: Calculate the final pot size if you were to call

\$3 pot
\$3 raise by opponent
\$3 call

\$9 total pot

Step 2: Divide the size of the call by the size of the final pot

\$3 call size / \$9 final pot size

3 divided by 9 = 0.33

Step 3: Multiply by 100 to get the percentage (move decimal 2 places)

0.33 x100 = 33%

Step 4: You need at least 33% equity to call (I can't yet do this as I have no idea how to calculate equity as I don't know how to put someone on a range)

But depending on where they raised, they put in a pot sized raise, so they likely have good starting cards from AA AK KK QQ JJ TT KTs AQs etc right? So for me to have 33% equity I would need a similar range myself?

Last edited by Fishanator01; 09-11-2019 at 01:32 PM.
09-11-2019 , 01:52 PM
Both come to the same result, its the same steps just in a different order.

For instance, pot is 3 badguy bets 1.
thus after his bet, the pot is 4, and we're calling 1 to win it.
4:1 means that there is 4 of A and 1 of B, for a total of FIVE. thus the fraction would be 1 out of 5 1/5 = 20% needed to call

the alternative way for pot is 3 he bets 1 :
betsize/(pot+bet+call) ie 1/(3+1+1)=20%

the confusion lies in " do i count what my call would be "

youre essentially "counting your call" in both, but in one way youre doing it as you convert it to a ratio, the other youre just doing it outright.

FWIW i have to literally look it up every time i do it, ive probably looked it up like 50x now

hope this makes sense
09-11-2019 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPallidan12
Both come to the same result, its the same steps just in a different order.

For instance, pot is 3 badguy bets 1.
thus after his bet, the pot is 4, and we're calling 1 to win it.
4:1 means that there is 4 of A and 1 of B, for a total of FIVE. thus the fraction would be 1 out of 5 1/5 = 20% needed to call

the alternative way for pot is 3 he bets 1 :
betsize/(pot+bet+call) ie 1/(3+1+1)=20%

the confusion lies in " do i count what my call would be "

youre essentially "counting your call" in both, but in one way youre doing it as you convert it to a ratio, the other youre just doing it outright.

FWIW i have to literally look it up every time i do it, ive probably looked it up like 50x now

hope this makes sense
I think I might just be too uneducated to do this. For example I can't do any of these basic calculations. dividing 2 by 3 etc I just melt down and can't do it, let alone in 15 seconds which is the timer I get online.

Can you reccomend any maths workbooks or anything?
09-11-2019 , 02:17 PM
as per step 4, putting them on a range. I know what you mean, when i was learning and my calculation relied upon "putting them on a range" it felt like i was basing my whole decision upon some random cards i picked, and, how could that be accurate..

I think what WOULD be good, is downloading equilab, giving yourself 2 cards on a flop that would have a "tough decision" if jammed on, and then giving him the kinds of hands you could imagine someone jamming, and seeing how good/bad your equity gets as you add 2pair/ flush draws etc
09-11-2019 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiyZey00
I think I might just be too uneducated to do this. For example I can't do any of these basic calculations. dividing 2 by 3 etc I just melt down and can't do it, let alone in 15 seconds which is the timer I get online.

Can you reccomend any maths workbooks or anything?
https://www.amazon.com/slp/best-math...fuwuav2vt57jko

the trick is to not do it at the table where you have 15 seconds, but to do it now so that at the table you already know the answer.
09-11-2019 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiyZey00
I think I might just be too uneducated to do this. For example I can't do any of these basic calculations. dividing 2 by 3 etc I just melt down and can't do it, let alone in 15 seconds which is the timer I get online.

Can you reccomend any maths workbooks or anything?
https://www.mathtrainer.org/

Check this out, also quizlet. I'll link you to one of my study sets when I find it, it's just multiplication tables to 15 and ultra basic stuff to practice for quick application.
09-11-2019 , 02:33 PM
I'm going to give you a piece of advice from experience. I placed (and still do) a heavy emphasis on study but over time once I learned the basic concepts it made more sense to spend time playing and applying, then reviewing my play.

Poker is a simpler game than it is made out to be. The math is maybe 7th grade level. Most formulas can be done in your head with some practice during hand reviews. Find hands in your data base, find all of the formulas then do them in actual hands you played.

There is a lot of theory and I tried memorizing it and applying it but the application is the harder part. I learned more reviewing my play and seeing my errors than I did about reading concepts.

I say all of that to say I found that 50% study/50% play was a bad ratio for me very quickly. I'll study maybe an hour or so (I'm not that formatted) then look for spots to apply something new then review my play in that session as a whole.

Every scenario in poker is going to be different. There are an infinite amount of situations that can come up. There's more value, from my experience, in the play than the study.

So what I would recommend is:

Learn the basic math/formulas
Play
Review hands and apply the math in your review sessions until it becomes 2nd nature

Learn a new Concept
Play and start applying it.
Review hands to see if you are applying it correctly and to see if it's profitable.

Repeat and continue until you are dead or quit poker.
09-11-2019 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellyache
https://www.mathtrainer.org/

Check this out, also quizlet. I'll link you to one of my study sets when I find it, it's just multiplication tables to 15 and ultra basic stuff to practice for quick application.
Thanks man. I am currently just doing division by carrying the numbers passed the decimal point to divide smaller numbers by bigger numbers. I am slowly getting the hang of it.

Any study resources are much appreciated.
09-11-2019 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPallidan12
as per step 4, putting them on a range. I know what you mean, when i was learning and my calculation relied upon "putting them on a range" it felt like i was basing my whole decision upon some random cards i picked, and, how could that be accurate..

I think what WOULD be good, is downloading equilab, giving yourself 2 cards on a flop that would have a "tough decision" if jammed on, and then giving him the kinds of hands you could imagine someone jamming, and seeing how good/bad your equity gets as you add 2pair/ flush draws etc
I have just downloaded equilab and I plan to use it once I understand some basic math. Out of interest how would I go about constructing ranges to import onto eqilab?
09-12-2019 , 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiyZey00
I have just downloaded equilab and I plan to use it once I understand some basic math. Out of interest how would I go about constructing ranges to import onto eqilab?
just give yourself a hand that is confusing to play, like QQ and someone jams on you pre. now see what your odds are vs different hands/combos of hands that might jam pre.

now do the same thing on the flop, pretend youre facing a check raise. what does your TPTK look like vs.. someone who jams 2pair+ along with flush draws/straight draws etc. just look at different combos and see how good top pair, is, vs someone who never jams draws, someone who jams draws, someone who jams sets/ top pair/ 2pair. etc, for example

its not so much importing a range, as much as looking at how one particular hand stacks up vs the "overall" hands villain jams in given spot. to get your feet wet and familiarize yourself
09-12-2019 , 03:03 AM
Holy **** I just had a crazy all nighter of poker and I lost my entire bankroll. Will be studying for awhile.

I had about \$40 left of my bankroll and after some pretty terrible cards in micro I said **** it and went to \$0.10/\$0.20 6 handed cash game. I got all the way to 40 off my inital 10, then I ran up to 50 after checking three of a kind aces all the way to the river to get the guy to try and buy the pot.

Then I got dealt QQ, flop was Q T 5
Guy raises 6 dollars (hes been playing like a nutter 80vpip after 200 hands, keeps recharging) I call.
Turn is a 3
I go all in, he calls, cards turn
He has 35o
River is a 3

Lose everything

Go again and manage to turn 10 to 30

I get AKs

3bet

guy calls

flop A J K

I 4 bet he goes all in

I call

He has 27s

Turn 7
river 7

FUCCCKKKKKK

Okay trying to stay composed been playing well, go get a smoke and a brew.

Heads up 10/20 with my last 20 bucks

Make it to 48 against I guy I wiped out who recharges and starts playing again.

Been folding as he is super aggressive and check so he raises, been smashing him, he starts sending nasty messages, tilting.

I get KK

He raises i call

5 2 k

He goes all in I call

he has 22

turn 5

river 2

wipes me out with 4 of a kind.

I just stare blankly at the wall and then go for a walk. Now my eye keeps twitching and I have no bankroll.

What a dipstick. Surely I played those hands right though? **** me I feel so frustrated.

edit: ill go back and edit this later to be clearer and less rambling, I am just ****ing seething right now.

Last edited by Fishanator01; 09-12-2019 at 03:22 AM.
09-12-2019 , 04:13 AM
You went on tilt.
09-12-2019 , 05:04 AM
your recollection of hh loses some credibility when qq loses to 35 on qt335
09-12-2019 , 10:09 AM
Why do you think I was so ****ing pissed off? Bear in mind this is over hours, and I likely got lucky in some hands but they didn't stick in my mind as much, but it felt like I just couldn't win on some of these hands.

Same thing to a lesser extreme seems to happen all the time at 1c/2c. Ill be aggressive with top pair or two pair and someone will crush me with 38o or some bullshit on the turn/river.

I know its not some scheme against me or bots or some other bullshit excuse, but it gets ****ing disheartening. Especially when its a lunatic just going all in, busting and then recharging.
09-16-2019 , 02:51 AM
So yeah I was fully tilted and experienced my first major case of trying to get back to even, which is probably never a good frame of mind. However I experienced some of the worst luck I think possible. I guess variance can be brutal but I didn't help myself.

I put around another \$15 into my lost bankroll and lost it all playing terribly. I need to focus on the study for awhile before playing again. Would playing with the fake money on 888 be worth it while I study or is it pointless? I am guessing people don't play realistically with fake cash?
09-19-2019 , 03:00 AM
personally beating fake cash taught me a lot of lessons, i dont think its a waste of time at all.
treat it like its real and adhere to brm
09-19-2019 , 11:11 PM
How did I play this hand guys? I have KAo

I am SB, villain is 1 after utg. utg fold, villain bets 62c all in. everyone else folds before me, I call, BB folds.

flop is qc 5s qs

turn is 9h

river is 8h

cards turn over he has kh9d wins with pair of 9s.

Next hand I go all in with QQ and get beat by AA. I was down to like 28c so it seemed reasonable to go all in.

I think my ranges are too wide, but if I wait to only play premium hands from front positions I play pretty much no hands, then when I have something good and play everyone just folds.

Is it worth following a preflop range and literally only playing those hands even at 01/02c games? Because most hands seem to be won on pairs, two pairs or overpairs.
09-19-2019 , 11:31 PM
Next hand tonight was in a SNG

I am UTG in 9 handed game A8C, I call BB.

UTG 2 raises to 80, next two fold, then a call, button calls, SB calls. BB then folds. I call the raise.

5S 3H AH

SB bets 20, I call, UTG 2 calls, cutoff raises to 60, button folds, SB calls, I call.

2D turn

SB bets 20, I raise to 60, cutoff calls, SB folds

5C

I shove 380, cutoff calls

He wins with A9 v my A8 with the 9 kicker.
09-19-2019 , 11:37 PM
Last hand in SNG where I go out

I am in Hijack position (guy before cutoff position I think thats right for 9 handed right?)

TdQs

UTG calls, everyone else before folds, I call. Cutoff and button fold, SB calls, BB checks.

6c 8d qd

everyone checks, I bet 280, everone but UTG folds, he calls.

5d

utg checks, I go all in with 337 remaining chips. he calls

9d

Beats my flush with his ace high flush.
09-19-2019 , 11:38 PM
I am feeling unlucky here, but I would guess I am playing way too aggressive out of position? My problemn is I find when I play out of position too soft with constant checking or calling, they then load up and bully me.

09-24-2019 , 07:00 AM
@LordPallidan12 What do you think of the 4 and 2 rule to get the probability of hitting the cards you need while playing? So multiply your outs by 4 on the flop and 2 on the turn and that gives you your odds of making the hand you are drawing for.

Also any tips on memorising pot odds? Ive been trying to memorise pot odds before game as advised but none of it is sticking in my head and trying to do so in 15 seconds while playing is pretty tough.
09-24-2019 , 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiyZey00
@LordPallidan12 What do you think of the 4 and 2 rule to get the probability of hitting the cards you need while playing? So multiply your outs by 4 on the flop and 2 on the turn and that gives you your odds of making the hand you are drawing for.