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Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success

07-26-2017 , 11:30 PM
Yeah, but I can flop the nuts.

Your points are all valid. I dont agree 100% but they are valid.

Last edited by MikeStarr; 07-26-2017 at 11:36 PM.
Taking unorthodox lines to live poker success Quote
07-27-2017 , 08:27 AM
Had a very frustrating day yesterday. All was going well and I was up $400ish after about 2 1/2 hours, then I got 3 outted by Qd9d vs my Ad4d on a Td8d4cAs board. River Js. Luckily the guy didnt raise my river bet with the nuts. LOL

I took a break to eat and came back later. I played 2 hours and won 1 hand.

Lost about $100 with TT on J3J3x board
Lost about $250 AK vs K7 on K748K board
Lost about $250 KT vs KQ on KQ4T8 board
Lost about $130 AhQh on 9h8h3s4dTc board

Lost $20-$25 several more times when I raised preflop and wiffed everything.

I won $275 before dinner and lost $775 after dinner.
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07-27-2017 , 10:30 AM
You got 4-outed, not 3.
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07-27-2017 , 12:30 PM
53s hand is fine if he has absolute position or if he isn't in bad relative position with predictable players between who have tells.

Rest of the hands seem fine because of a mountain of variables that are to be considered preflop depending on the opponents left to play in the hand.

The only one in which is a stick point is the last one with AQ no spade on the mono board. The default is a bet and to get the hand over with. There is close to a 50% chance the player has a spade in his hand. Checking with him checking behind some 5s is disastrous where betting and making him fold a naked spade is good. Then adding he could bluff you off your hand.

But checking is not out of the realm of actions depending on stack sizes and how the player plays. There are so many variables in the opponent's style that I can't list them all that might influence a check. But as a general description if the opponent will flip his hand face up if you give him control and he bets almost always then I think checking is the better play.
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07-27-2017 , 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Had a very frustrating day yesterday. All was going well and I was up $400ish after about 2 1/2 hours, then I got 3 outted by Qd9d vs my Ad4d on a Td8d4cAs board. River Js. Luckily the guy didnt raise my river bet with the nuts. LOL

I took a break to eat and came back later. I played 2 hours and won 1 hand.

Lost about $100 with TT on J3J3x board
Lost about $250 AK vs K7 on K748K board
Lost about $250 KT vs KQ on KQ4T8 board
Lost about $130 AhQh on 9h8h3s4dTc board

Lost $20-$25 several more times when I raised preflop and wiffed everything.

I won $275 before dinner and lost $775 after dinner.
Some days just aren't yours Mike. Looks like you lost less than you could have on a few of those runouts which is good.

Also, in the Q9 hand Villain had the second nuts! He can't raise that because you might have KQ right? (sarcasm)
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07-27-2017 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacetheMind
Some days just aren't yours Mike. Looks like you lost less than you could have on a few of those runouts which is good.

Also, in the Q9 hand Villain had the second nuts! He can't raise that because you might have KQ right? (sarcasm)
That's probably what he was actually thinking.
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07-27-2017 , 05:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uberkuber
You got 4-outed, not 3.
Which 4 cards beat me?
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07-27-2017 , 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by winky51
53s hand is fine if he has absolute position or if he isn't in bad relative position with predictable players between who have tells.

Rest of the hands seem fine because of a mountain of variables that are to be considered preflop depending on the opponents left to play in the hand.

The only one in which is a stick point is the last one with AQ no spade on the mono board. The default is a bet and to get the hand over with. There is close to a 50% chance the player has a spade in his hand. Checking with him checking behind some 5s is disastrous where betting and making him fold a naked spade is good. Then adding he could bluff you off your hand.

But checking is not out of the realm of actions depending on stack sizes and how the player plays. There are so many variables in the opponent's style that I can't list them all that might influence a check. But as a general description if the opponent will flip his hand face up if you give him control and he bets almost always then I think checking is the better play.
The guy in the AQ hand folded and told me he had 33. He said it really sucks to bluff into the nuts. Apparently he thought I would only crai with the nut flush.
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07-27-2017 , 06:57 PM
Yesterday evening's shellacking carried into this morning. Between the two days I went 3 hours without winning hand that saw a flop. I won hand preflop where I 3 bet KQs.

It finally turned around a bit though and I scratched and clawed my way back from stuck $300 to winning $200. I only played couple medium-big pots. The rest were small wins and losses.

1) Button straddle. The button is very aggro especially when he straddles. Ive absolutely destroyed him in the past year. A lot of it has just been me having good hands against him but I also have his number. He always jokes that hes gonna crush me today. Hes not really joking though. I can tell its starting to get to him. He sometimes leaves when I sit down. I have a few guys I cant beat to save my life also so I know how he feels.

So he straddles the button. I literally just sat down after changing tables. This is my first hand at the table. I open limp KK in MP The cutoff limps and then my button buddy raises to $50.

Button $400
Me $450
Cutoff $300

I call the $50 and cutoff calls also

Flop ($155) 9s7c5s. I check. Cutoff checks. Button bets $120. I crai. Maybe I can call and let him hang himself on the turn, but I didnt have the Ks, the board is already pretty scary and he wont fold if he has 88, 66, TT+ or 2 overcards with a spade. Its more likely he just has an ace and will shut down on the turn. They both folded.

2) 2 limps. An older guy raises to $15 in the cutoff. Same guy from the first hand is on the button (but didnt straddle). He calls. I give very little respect to a $15 raise after a couple limps. I 3 bet to $65 from the SB with KQs. I think the older guy will fold AJ / AT type hands. Maybe AQ. I could just call with KQs but I like the squeeze here sometimes also.
Old guy started hand with $180
Button $280

The old guy and the button both call
Flop ($215) QdTd4s. I think a bit and shove. Old guy calls and the button folds. Ol guy had AQ and it held up. Blah

3) EP opens to $15. He opened to $25 earlier with KK and hes opened a few times to $15 and based on how he played the hands, he didnt have premium hands. He gets 2 calls. I 3 bet to $60 with JJ. Preflop raiser folds. One $15 caller folds. The only guy who calls my 3 bet is the same old guy from Hand #2. Hes in MP. Im in the cutoff.

Flop ($155) Qs8c4d. He checks. I bet $40. Kind of a weird bet size for sure. This guy will never check raise bluff me based on bet sizing and I felt like I could easily be behind here. He calls.
Turn ($235) 3h. X/X
River ($235) 9c. X/X...He had 66.

4) EP limps. I make it $25 JsTs. He calls HU.
Flop ($55) JhTc5d. He checks. I bet $25. He calls.
Turn ($105) 7h. He checks. I bet $75. He snap calls.
River ($255) Td. He checks. I bet $175. He tank/folds. Meh. Pretty sure he had AJ/KJ
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07-27-2017 , 07:13 PM
I showed up this morning at 9:30 AM to play in what I would call a semi private 5/10 game only to find out that it starts at 9:00 AM. UGH!

There are about 8-12 5/10 regulars who are all friends. They play every morning, but the casino will only host a private game if there are 9 players who specifically request a private game. They never know exactly which of these regs will show up each day so what happens is some of them show up along with 3-5 random players. They are all at the door at 9:00 am so its not like anyone got there first and can get to the top of the list.

The guy who "runs" the game used to pick the players each day but after lots of complaints, the way its done now is that they made the game 10 handed. 8 of the regs get to play and 2 of the "random" players draw for the final 2 seats. It sounds ridiculous to me, but that's what they do.

So I showed up 9:30 thinking thats when the game starts and obviously didnt get in. I got on the list but that's pretty pointless. Several of these guys are whales and they tend to leave at the same time around 1PM. If one person leaves, the game plays 9 handed from then on, so nobody gets in unless 2 people leave. Nobody is leaving until the whales leave so that defeats the purpose of playing that early in the morning. The whole thing is very bizarre.
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07-27-2017 , 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Which 4 cards beat me?


All 4 jacks in the deck beat you
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07-27-2017 , 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pots-For-Sale
All 4 jacks in the deck beat you
I couldve sworn the Jd didnt beat me but I know I had a pair of 4s and a flush draw on the flop so I guess I have all the suits correct. So yeah, youre right. 4 outter.
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07-27-2017 , 09:51 PM
Stats

Since June 21st

142.5 hrs
$62.65/hr
Win 74% of sessions
StnDev..57.7 BB/hr

Im using stats since June 21st because that's the first day I returned to 2/5 after playing about 10 days of 1/2 to reboot myself. If you havent been following along, I played 62 hrs of 1/2 over a 10 day period at the beginning of June at $36.38/hr.

If you never move down once in a while to do a mental reboot, you dont know what you're missing. I have a friend who is a pretty good player but has been breaking even for months. Ive told him to move down for a week or so but he wont do it. Honestly I think its because he embarrassed. I dont give a **** what people think. I do whatever I think is necessary and is in my best interest.
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07-27-2017 , 11:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Stats

Since June 21st

142.5 hrs
$62.65/hr
Win 74% of sessions
StnDev..57.7 BB/hr

Im using stats since June 21st because that's the first day I returned to 2/5 after playing about 10 days of 1/2 to reboot myself. If you havent been following along, I played 62 hrs of 1/2 over a 10 day period at the beginning of June at $36.38/hr.

If you never move down once in a while to do a mental reboot, you dont know what you're missing. I have a friend who is a pretty good player but has been breaking even for months. Ive told him to move down for a week or so but he wont do it. Honestly I think its because he embarrassed. I dont give a **** what people think. I do whatever I think is necessary and is in my best interest.
This x 100. I've been taking shots at aggressive 2/5 games during the week that havent went great. I move back down to 1/3 for a bit, crush and then take more shots.

I like your approach to rebooting. Awesome outlook.
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07-28-2017 , 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Yesterday evening's shellacking carried into this morning. Between the two days I went 3 hours without winning hand that saw a flop. I won hand preflop where I 3 bet KQs.

It finally turned around a bit though and I scratched and clawed my way back from stuck $300 to winning $200. I only played couple medium-big pots. The rest were small wins and losses.

1) Button straddle. The button is very aggro especially when he straddles. Ive absolutely destroyed him in the past year. A lot of it has just been me having good hands against him but I also have his number. He always jokes that hes gonna crush me today. Hes not really joking though. I can tell its starting to get to him. He sometimes leaves when I sit down. I have a few guys I cant beat to save my life also so I know how he feels.

So he straddles the button. I literally just sat down after changing tables. This is my first hand at the table. I open limp KK in MP The cutoff limps and then my button buddy raises to $50.

Button $400
Me $450
Cutoff $300

I call the $50 and cutoff calls also

Flop ($155) 9s7c5s. I check. Cutoff checks. Button bets $120. I crai. Maybe I can call and let him hang himself on the turn, but I didnt have the Ks, the board is already pretty scary and he wont fold if he has 88, 66, TT+ or 2 overcards with a spade. Its more likely he just has an ace and will shut down on the turn. They both folded.

2) 2 limps. An older guy raises to $15 in the cutoff. Same guy from the first hand is on the button (but didnt straddle). He calls. I give very little respect to a $15 raise after a couple limps. I 3 bet to $65 from the SB with KQs. I think the older guy will fold AJ / AT type hands. Maybe AQ. I could just call with KQs but I like the squeeze here sometimes also.
Old guy started hand with $180
Button $280

The old guy and the button both call
Flop ($215) QdTd4s. I think a bit and shove. Old guy calls and the button folds. Ol guy had AQ and it held up. Blah

3) EP opens to $15. He opened to $25 earlier with KK and hes opened a few times to $15 and based on how he played the hands, he didnt have premium hands. He gets 2 calls. I 3 bet to $60 with JJ. Preflop raiser folds. One $15 caller folds. The only guy who calls my 3 bet is the same old guy from Hand #2. Hes in MP. Im in the cutoff.

Flop ($155) Qs8c4d. He checks. I bet $40. Kind of a weird bet size for sure. This guy will never check raise bluff me based on bet sizing and I felt like I could easily be behind here. He calls.
Turn ($235) 3h. X/X
River ($235) 9c. X/X...He had 66.

4) EP limps. I make it $25 JsTs. He calls HU.
Flop ($55) JhTc5d. He checks. I bet $25. He calls.
Turn ($105) 7h. He checks. I bet $75. He snap calls.
River ($255) Td. He checks. I bet $175. He tank/folds. Meh. Pretty sure he had AJ/KJ
1) I think I prefer a standard $35 open if the button is as active as you say with his straddle. Maybe he'll 3-bet and we can have a nice pot. As played I think it's close between calling and limp-raising small. There's something really spicy about making it like $130 over his raise here, I think he's never folding. Flop crai looks good as played.

2) Eh. ****ty spot. Old guy's stack size makes me more inclined to just call pre as he might be able to 4! all in with his pp. I like the 3! more if he has a full stack that we can pressure. As played the money has to go in on the flop

3) Interesting flop underbet. Play I very rarely make but it seems like you identified a perfect spot for it.

4) Would size up a bit on the flop as that board is pretty wet, V should have plenty of draws. Probably making it $35, but its a small quibble. Rest of the hand looks standard.

Also, congrats on the sick results since your return to 2/5. Keep on crushing!
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07-28-2017 , 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
I couldve sworn the Jd didnt beat me but I know I had a pair of 4s and a flush draw on the flop so I guess I have all the suits correct. So yeah, youre right. 4 outter.
You indeed had a flush draw, but the Jd would have given him a straight flush.
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07-29-2017 , 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacetheMind

Also, congrats on the sick results since your return to 2/5. Keep on crushing!
TY, Sir
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07-29-2017 , 08:27 AM
My wife is out of town until next Wed so I have some extra time to kill and Im putting in some longer sessions. Yesterday I played about 5 hrs ...took a break for dinner and then played 3 more. I got my ass handed to me. Here are the key hands:

1) The table is very tight passive. Im raising more than normal and getting no resistance.
UTG limps. I raise to $25 QdTs from the cutoff. The button is pretty tight solid and calls. UTG also calls.

Flop ($80) ThJdTc. UTG checks. I would bet here most of the time with 2 broadway cards on the flop but decide to check this time. There's a $500 high hand bonus if I hit the 4th T. If someone has 89, they have less outs than they think. If someone has AQ/KQ, they have less outs...ect. It checks thru

Turn ($80) 4d. UTG checks. I bet $40. Button raises to $100. UTG folds. Hard to put him on a hand here. He doesnt seem like the type to call a $25 raise with AT/KT. Hes more likely to have T9s/JTs/ maybe T8s. He could be making a small bluff to get me to fold things like 99 or smaller pairs.

River ($280) 6d. I check. He bets $140. I call and get beat by 8d7d. Honestly I didnt even see the backdoor flush but wouldnt have put him on it anyway. Should I have bet the flop? Maybe...probably.

Let see...this probably isnt the correct way to figure the total EV of the hand but if I bet the flop I win the $55 in this hand.

By not betting the flop I got into this situation.

I dont know how often he bluffs, but if he bets the same $140 1/2 of the time that he misses and always bets the $140 when he hits flush or a 9, then

I win $155 in this hand about 39% of the time
I win $295 in this hand about 39% of the time
I lose $265 22% of the time.

I win an avg of $117. Im not talking about the EV of the river play. Just how much I win or lose in total in this hand by not betting the flop and letting him pick up equity on the turn. If he never bluffs the river when he misses I still win an avg of $62 which is more than the $55 I win if I bet the flop and take it down. So I guess not betting the flop isnt bad after all.

2) EP limps. I raise to $25 AhKh from the cutoff. Both blinds and UTG call.
Flop ($100) AcTc6c. Blinds check. UTG bets $15. No figgin idea what that means. I call and we're HU.
Turn ($130) As. He checks. I bet $75. He calls.
River ($280) 6h. He checks. I bet $125. He crai. Its about $130 more to me and I call. He has AT. FML

3) I limp AK UTG. 2 more limps. A very aggro guy raises to $40 in the BB with $230 total. I reraise to $200. We get all in. He has TT and it holds up. This guy was so aggro, in an earlier straddle hand, he opened to $35 and I 3 bet him to $100 with AJ. He folded.

I break for dinner stuck $1200. This is the first hand I play when I come back.

4) UTG limps. I limp KQ UTG+1. We go 5 to the flop
Flop ($25) Ks9c3d. Checks around.
Turn ($25) Jc. BB bets $25. I call HU
River Ah. He bets $35. I almost folded because the ace didnt seem to bother him at al but I called. He had 33. If I raise preflop or bet this flop like I normally would, I wouldve lost a lot more.

5) EP limps. I raise to $25 KhKd. MP and LP call.
Flop ($80) QhJh5s. I check. MP bets $45. LP intsacalls.

MP ($450)
LP ($225)

I check raise to $200. I felt like LP had a FD and wouldnt fold it....but they both folded.

The evening session action was much looser. I called a few $20-$30 raises and missed everything.

6) Button straddles. I complete 76s in the SB. I normally fold this but the button wasnt raising his straddle very often. We go 4 to the flop.

Flop ($40) 976. I bet $35. LP raises to $85 with $325 total. It folds to me. I would fold this to a lot of people but this guy is a total whale so I call.
Turn ($210) 3. I check. He bets $150. I crai and he calls with 97.

River 6. Yippee! I finally put a beat on someone.

I played 2 more hrs and didnt win a single hand and left.

I lost $1200 in the first session. I won $150 in the 2nd session and only won 2 hands in 3 hrs. If I hadn't caught the 6 on the river I wouldve been annihilated

I was -$2130 in all in EV for July. I got back $655 in that hand putting me at -$1475 for July so even though I got really lucky to river the 6, overall Im not feeling so lucky.
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07-29-2017 , 04:16 PM
Card dead as hell again today. I had my 3rd 3 hour stretch of winning 1 or less pots.

Then....Raise a limper to $25 QQ. Limper and LP call
Flop ($80) QT8 with a FD. I bet $60. LP calls
Turn ($200) A. He has $230. I shove. He has KT

Fold every hand for 30 mins and then

3 limps. Button goes $20. I make it $85 AKs SB. Button calls.
Flop A66. I check. He bets $115. I shove. He calls with Q6.

How can someone that stupid also be that lucky? Needless to say another bad day.

4 hrs. -$800

The last 4 days have been brutal card dead hell combined with some nonsense like the AK vs Q6 hand. Still over $45/hr over last 150 hours
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07-29-2017 , 05:09 PM
depending on stack depth, i either love or haaaaaaaaate the shove in hand two
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07-29-2017 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie
depending on stack depth, i either love or haaaaaaaaate the shove in hand two
He started the hand with about $400. There was also a flush draw on the flop.
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07-29-2017 , 08:37 PM
Went back for an evening session. Won a couple small hands. Then I went 2 hrs without winning another hand. I got a table change and got stacked with AA on my 2nd hand at the new table.

I may go back to 1/2 tomorrow for some low stress poker again. At least the losses will be smaller until the bad luck streak ends.
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07-31-2017 , 08:51 AM
In 19 months of pretty much playing full time (125-130 hrs a month or so), Ive had 3 very very frustrating bad runs. I'm not sure where this one ranks. Probably 2nd worst in the frustration department. I lost $3K in 4 days. That may not sound like much to some high variance players but for me, my style of play and the capped games I play in, its a big loss.

Its really just a combination of some coolers, long long stretches of total card dead hell, not hitting hardly any big pots. Also, most people I know forget about this part. When you are losing, you tend to play badly and make the losses worse. Ive probably added $600 in losses with a few hands I played badly thinking there's no way I could possibly be beat again, and of course I was and should've folded.

So as I sometimes do to relax and play pretty stress free during a bad streak, I played 1/2 yesterday. The players are so bad its really hard to fathom.

Here is the one big hand

UTG and UTG+1 limp. I make it $15 KK. LP calls. UTG reraises to $85. UTG+1 cold calls the $85 WTF?

I had been playing with UTG for about 2 hours and he had made very large 3 bets 3 previous times and nobody ever called. He was hardly playing any hands at all but he cant really have a monster every time. UTG had $325. UTG $175.

Normally this limp/reraise from UTG would look very much like AA, but in this spot with a guy making several large 3 bet squeezes and another $100 in dead money in the pot, I decided to go with the hand and I shoved. They both called. Of course during a bad streak like this of you know UTG is going to have AA. UTG+1 had 76s. LOL.

That's the second biggest pot in terms of BBs Ive ever played (lost both of them). Its also the 4th KK vs AA Ive had in the past 5 weeks or so with no AA vs KK that I know of. Im also -$2860 in All in EV in the past 2 months. Crying about this stuff doesnt help, but knowing how and why you're losing (or not winning as much as normal) does help keep it in perspective.

So I lost $325 in that hand.
I got 3 outted on the river in a $150 pot AQ vs AT...A948T
I lost AA vs TT all in preflop (short stack luckily)
I had 18 pocket pairs and didnt hit a set

Even with what I would say was pretty bad luck again, I still won $100 in a long 8.75 hour session because the players are so bad that a lot of bad luck is easily overcome by getting paid off more in other standard hands than I would at 2/5.

Im going to play 1/2 again today and then decide what to do to start August.
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07-31-2017 , 11:14 AM
Same issue for me ATM mate, haven't won a fkn hand all week lol. Stick with it.
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07-31-2017 , 04:52 PM
I didicded to abandon the 1/2 idea for this morning. Mainly because the morning 1/2 is full of relics that never raise. They limp every hand. Every pot is tiny. I can run the game over but there's just very little money on the table. The evening 1/2 games are more profitable for me than an avg day time 2/5 game.

So I played 2/5 this morning. I finally got on a run and won $1175 in 4 hours. I won a bunch of small pots but had 2 interesting bigger ones.

1) UTG and MP limp. I raise to $25 OTB with AdAh. Only UTG calls. Hes a pretty tight player. Mostly standard ABC type guy. He doesnt slow play. He just plays decent cards and pounds people when he hits.

Flop ($60) KdTd4d. He checks. He probably thinks Im full of it with my constant position raises so I think he will call me with any pocket pair from 66-77 or higher if he had a diamond. I bet $35. He check raises to $85. UGH!

If I didnt have the Ad, he could have AdKx. I think he could have KxQd, a set and possibly something like JdJx but I think he just calls with that. He could have a flush but the Ad and Kd are accounted for. Anyway I call.

Turn ($230) 5c. He shoves $340. WTF? Thinking back over it now, this is probably a fold against this guy but I called. He had Jd9d and I rivered a 4th diamond. I didnt think he would limp UTG and call $25 with that but obviously I was wrong. The question is am I still running bad by getting out flopped in hands that are hard to get away from or am I running good because I actually hit this one. If I had folded the turn I would for sure think Im still running bad.

2) I open to $20 QsJc. Both blinds call. They are both unknowns
Flop ($60) Js5c2c. SB leads $25. BB calls. I raise to $80. SB calls quickly. BB instashoves for $220. The SB has about $240ish left. I put the BB on a FD and called. SB folded.

The board bricked out and BB showed A2. LOL
SB said he had a pocket pair and wouldve called if I had folded. He led the flop and called my raise with a pair lower than Js. Amazing.
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