I never would have imagined this would be the face behind the thread. You totally threw me off.

How many rentals do you have right now? Is it hard flipping houses? How often do you tackle one?
Sorry so many questions, but curious if this is something I may be able to do.

I came in here to tell you that you should tell everyone at HSI that you aren't shaving for no shave november, but I guess it is too late now.

BTW, I always look for you at HSI when I am there, which is usually just weekends, but after seeing this latest pick I think the reason I don't see you is because I don't really know what you look like. I was going by yout twitter profile pic.

Currently at shoe getting my grind on.

@witchesCastle not sure what to think about ur first statement. Guess u never seen my pic on twitter before. Although at the moment do look a lil more shaggy.
Anyhow...u can dress a murderer in a 3 piece suit, and he's still a murderer.
U can wear sweats, hoodie, and b tattooed up, and b worth millions.
Never judge a book by its cover...Don't believe the stereotypes.

Your other questions...
Right now I just have "The Melody", a 5plex apartment w 5 paying tenants @ $480/ea. When I bought a few years back, previous landlord had them under priced at @$400/ea. I hvnt had any troubles at all at $480...all about max value.

Had 2 houses that I sold last year.

Like I mentioned, the big part of the housing game is finding a great deal. If u can pay cash that helps too. We all know cash talks, and quick closings (wo waiting for financing) always interest the sellers.

The hardest, and most important part of the game is finding a great deal. I try to find the gd deals that are mainly cosmetic projects (paint, drywall, carpet, flooring, new appliances, etc) and stay away from the structural/mechanic repairs. I've done those too, but rather not. I hv done over 10 flips in 10 years, 1/yr avg. I only had 1 bad experience, 6yrs ago I had a furnace related fire and suffered some serious burns. Ended up losing about 50% of my investment. So always b careful doing the work, and always trust the people that works for u.

The ones that go great are really satisfying...buying low and selling high is a $ boner. It's just like the stock game, or being a drug dealer. lol.

During this part of my life, I think I may do a couple more flips; then mayb just try to find 4plex rental.

With the sell of a house last year, I ended up paying off "The Melody" at the beginning of the year, and wdnt mind having another 4plex (around same area) down the road to go w it.

Down side to all this...buying houses do eat up the poker roll. If I decide to do smthing like this for 2015, it wd b back to the 1/2nl grind full time. But once I flipped one I cd go back to the bigger games w a bigger roll.
*Opportunity cost to everything.

Part of me wants to just keep playing poker and build the roll. Especially after seeing my hourly at the 2/5+nl (and higher) games this year. I was completely shocked when I filtered this data last week.
The other part of me wants to take a break from the poker monotony and mixed it up w smthing new.

Gd questions, hope I helped. Btw, I saw u only hv 3 post (all on my thread). So u must hv heard about this thread through HSI. ??? I try to keep a low profile in the poker rm, but smhow people know about this thread. Word travels fast down in that poker rm...gossip too. It reminds me of the passing periods in the hallways of high school.
Do u play at HSI? If so, say what's up smtime.

@bahbahmickey lol.
don't usually play too many weekends, but I am here now. Hollar if ya here now, or ever see me around. Gl homie.

...gonna play the biggest game they have tonight. #shottakingmission

Well? You can't hold that information back.

Butterfly, wait till you see your hourly rate when you have up to 40 properties in 15 years. That money will compound so much faster than the pokers = )

@liveactionPro gd point sir! Miss ya buddy. Hope all is gd.
@seamsclean I get w ya tomo on that. Have another important matter that's been weighing on me tonight.
Here it is...

Hot topic: Today 2/5/10nl
Me vs poker friend in a hand.

I think I unintentionally pissed him off in this hand.

My question to u guys...
Am I out of line? Bad etiquette? Or within rules, and nothing to b ashamed about? I hv mixed feelings. I felt bad that he was clearly upset, but also there to make $. Here's the low down.

Winner straddle game...utg+1 straddled, +2 limps, I limp w 67 in mp, 2 more limps, and my friend in the blind makes it $70.

Back story: I just met my new poker buddy a few months back while playing in the big game. Over those months I hv noticed he raises a lot in suspicious spots. Spots where lots of limpers pre, and spots in position. Ya know...the standard gd player raising spots, but almost too much where it looks suspect. Therefore, after months of witnessing this, I came to the conclusion his hand range here is wide open. It was just happening way too often for it to b the goods everytime. Let's just say when he sees 4+ limpers, and actions is on him his vpip is extremely high (in the given situation), and his vpfr nearly matches that high % (in the given situation). It has been smwhat successful for him, and i really haven't seen a lot of his hands show down. But, my soul read was he was taking down pots w lots of inferior hands.
So that's the back story, now back to the hand.

After 5 players $10 limp, my pal makes it $70...as he usually does in these types of situations. It's folded to me, and knowing his range here is polarized...Meaning he either has premium, or nothing too special. And in this type of situation where he always raises in these spots it looks like the latter, so I called in position.

$1k stacks. Heads up to the flop of 568 rainbow. He bets $100, I call. Thought about raising here, but just called instead. Pretty much because I don't think he puts me on connectors, so I thought he may try to rep the straight if it comes...which is the hand I actually hv. Thus, I may get another street of value. If I did raise otf, AND he does actually have a gd hand like a big over pair. It cd hv very easily all ended up in the middle, and I didn't really want to b flipping. So again just called otf.
I think the turn was a 2 and I believe it went check check. I prob shd hv bet here for sure, but again checked. River J he checked, and I checked behind w showdown value. Board 5682J

So HSI rules stats: at showdown first position is obligated to show first. My friend in first position says, "you got it, pair is gd". I don't think I said anything, and just waited for him to show. In actuality, I wanted to c his hand mainly to c if my read was correct all these months. I may hv said, "u can muck if u want", but eventually he shows K4, THEN I show my pair of 6s.

I cd tell he was bothered by this. Afterwards, I did feel a little bad; but desperately wanted info since I play w him often. To b honest, I had mixed emotions. I def wasn't trying to big league him, or try to tilt him, or slow roll, etc. It was solely for information.

So whatcha think? Did I do my poker friend wrong? Bad etiquette? Smtimes when they say "pair is gd" I'll just show, but smtimes I really want the info.

So per usual, when i feel bad about smthing i confide w my gf.
And my nonpoker gf's take on all of this was...She said it's not worth upsetting ur friend, and all I care about is myself.
Dang girl, OUCH!
She didn't stop there...She then continues on by saying it's prob why I hv no friends.
Dang girl, DOUBLE OUCH!
My response to her was...who needs friends when I hv u.

Then I realized it looks like I pissed off 2 people tonight!
I shd hv just showed my damn 6s!!

Rayz

When ever I have a bond with another player like you described, its hard. We usually gave respect to the first raiser and just folded if it were going to be HU. ( Why I dislike these relationships, but you cant help but make them when you see the same people over and over lol )

Ill be honest, I would have been like WTF to if I saw 67 and was made to show K-4 lol

I wish I knew how to handle this situation from here on out, but it might be awkward unless you already gave him the hey, I know were cool and all speech but ill check raise my grandma if I have too.

You did absolutely nothing wrong imo. Your friend was probably more upset with himself for lighting $170 on fire with K4.

Easy answer - would he have shown you first if hands and positions were reversed?

You coming to cherokee wsop?

I would have shown first since I already know he gets out of line in these spots. I wouldn't want him to know that I know. Just let him claim AK and pick him off again sometime.

Etiquette wise: nothing wrong. It's way too commonplace at HSI for people to expect you to show out of turn.

If I were in a hand with an acquaintance, friend, or stranger, I would have just tabled my hand as soon as he said a pair was good. Just think that is good poker etiquette.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using 2+2 Forums

Don't post much, but think you did the right thing. Poker for you is a Business, and "poker friends" are far from just that. My definition of friend means they have to know my favorite color, birthday, and/or my first car. Doubt that gentleman knows even one of those.

You are a good man for being so kind, but that table is your office, and that decision likely will yield you a lot of profit. Plus you got a confirmation of a curious its you had, and he will most likely get over it shortly.

Yea i agree with above. Your gf is wrong but u can still love her. If your poker acquaintancr is indeed a friend, this kind of thing shouldnt even come up. What it really sounds like is the guys a fish and fish are there for you to fry. Sometimes more than once.

You didnt make him show the hand. He could have mucked. Brush this one off bc anyone who knows poker Etiquette knows this is completely standard.

I don't agree. If any one who hasn't personally targeted/needled me or any of the other players all night says I'm good I'm flipping my hand up immediately and scooping up the pot. Why? It's simple, because it's enough to win. When told you're good just flip it up, it's proper etiquette, even if waiting for him to show is proper rule of play, it's basically a waved white flag. Lately, I've been seeing so much more of the stubborn "tough guys" at the table who refuse to turn up even nutted hands. It slows the game down, and it creates tension for a bit of information that you can already predict if you've picked apart the bluff, most of whom are the players not even capable of utilizing the info they're so desperately craving. I'm not saying that is the case here, seeing as how you play with this player frequently, and sure, the info is beneficial here, but the fact that you called this player a friend proves that it shouldn't even be a question.

Next time you see him, just tell him "no hard feelings" and that you looked him up because you respect his game, and know he's capable of making plays.

IMO you didn't do anything wrong, you called his bet and he can show or muck, nh.

I have a ton of respect for you and enjoy reading your thread.

I think you handled it wrong by not showing your hand when he said your pair is good.

IMO your read proves to he right when he says that. I don't thnk he had a big Ace there so why embarrass him.

Additionally by having him show you made it very clear that you are paying attention to his game instead of just blowing this off as a hand you won cause you got married to a suited connector

You want him to make this play again so making him show may hurt that.

GL

Friends are friends and business is business. If he can't tell those two apart then that's his problem.

Butterfly, please ignore this if you don't feel comfortable answering it. Is all of your net worth in the poker BR and real estate?

I agree 100% with bobbycoconuts and battagd1. I never and would never force an opponent to table his hand for many reasons. Collect your pot and move on. You obviously know your read on the situation is correct, no reason to let your opponent know. And on a side note to say his range is polarized is most likely incorrect. If he's doing this with Kx4x there is no reason to assume he's not making the same play with a much wider range. Is this same play not being made with Aces, 10's, KQs, 109s, Jx10x, etc, polarized is not the read I would get.

I don't see a problem with it, he has a right to muck his hand then you can scoop the pot without showing your hand. Or he can turn his hand up and see yours at showdown. Poker is a game of incomplete info, so take all the info you can, but you already know this.

I really don't have much of a cash game background or in these type of situations much or know the "correct" etiquette. But like someone said a few posts up he could have mucked if he was really that upset about having to table his hand.

On another note you are there playing in a pretty big game and you guys are competing. It doesn't even sound like you guys are that great of friends kinda of just acquaintances. Your goal is to win and same with him. Sure if this was a $10 home game with your good friends in a basement that would be different but gaining info here is pretty important imo.

Sounds like he was embarrassed to table k4 but that was his choice.

The aspect of gaining information is being overlooked. He is going to face this opponent again, and the knowledge of his holdings (he already suspected it, as posted), could prove valuable, along with the opponent staying more in line in the future.

Many great points being made on both sides of this situation. I cd hv just shown 6s, and let the V think I’m clueless to him raising light in these situations. But if I did, that still doesn’t confirm my read. The only way I know for sure is to actually see his hand. Info is everything, and I’m glad I did. It may be poor etiquette on my part, and that’s what bothers me most about this…especially to a gd poker buddy. We are not great friends, and he doesn’t know my favorite color; but we do hv each other’s phone numbers, and r suppose to play sm tennis next year when it warms up. Supposedly he got tennis game (usta ranked when younger). That match may not happen now because of me being selfish (gf words).
With all that said, as much as I play w V I wd prob do it all over again.
Now that he knows that I know I’m sure the script will b flipped, but I can adapt.
This V is clearly not a fish, and I feel he is one of the best players in the room. He finished 3rd for $41k in the wsopc main event, and I hv much respect for his game.
My favorite color is navy blue.

Small sample size since I usually just play it on sm Weds, and some Fridays, but averaging $173.68/hr in games 2/5 and higher. I guess it was worth rallying the troops to get this game going on Wednesdays . The $5k winning session on Derby day surely helped this stats too!
¾ of my cash profits have came from games 2/5 and higher. Sure do wish I cd play this game everyday!

I won’t b going to Cherokee. Gl to u if playing!!

I don't mind, I'll even give u a pic of my account because I'm proud of my hard work, and sacrifices along the way. #fulltransparency

It all came from poker, houses, and from other jobs along the way (teaching, lawn service, high school jobs, college jobs, etc). Everything I have, I EARNED! Nothing has been handed to me.
I’ll try to explain to the best to my ability wo trying to b smug.
A lil backstory on my monies…I have always been a saver, and always been super smart w my money. My biggest advice I can give to someone is SYM (save your money).

Things I do:

-Pay cash for everything. Never hv had a credit card. It never made since to me, except to build gd credit. But it’s just not worth it. For instance, -Why pay for a $1k watch on credit card w insane interest rates, make the minimum payments, and by time u pay it off that $1k watch cost u $3k. If u want the watch pay cash, and save. If I can’t pay cash for smthing, then I don’t need it.
Of course some things u just can’t pay cash for, like a house. This is really sickening to find out how much houses cost after a 30yr fix. Let’s just say it’s more than twice what u purchased it for. Ugh if u only had the cash.

-I try to sell my houses I flip “by owner” and save 6% commission fee. Why give up $6k on a $100k house, if I feel I can sell it on my own.

-Never bought a brand new car. The $10k brand new car is worth $7k and soon as it drives off the lot. All my cars have been paid for by cash, and never had a car payment. Usually I can find gd deals, and after I get bored w them I can sell it a couple yrs later for nearly as much as I paid for it. No money lost! I have had over a dozen vehicles easily (smthing new is exciting for me). When u don’t hv a car payment, and pretty much get ur money back when it sells…why not mix it up?

-never been in debt. (Except for my current house mortgage)

-only worked “for the man” a combined 8 years of my total life. Nothing wrong w “working for the man”, but I feel more satisfaction being my own boss, making my own decisions, creating my own wealth.

-started a lawn business after I grad from college, and was making more cutting grass than I was teaching middle school mathematics. I shd hv never went to college! Btw, I may b n the minority who thinks college is WAY overrated. Some professions though u must hv a college degree, so I get it.
So this is just a few of many examples of how I obtained wealth. I hv def sacrificed A LOT leading up to where I am now. I lived off the dollar menu, Totino’s, pbjs for many years when I was younger; but all those sacrifices lead me to where I am today. A 5plex that is completely paid for (bought for $95k and cd easily sell today for $150k)…bringing in $2200 cash flow/month. Also have $50k(ish) in my acct (both poker roll and life roll combined/no need to separate. Gives me a conservative 50 buy in roll for the 2/5/10 game). I am now able to start a small savings ($735 11yr old, $335 3yr old) for my daughters, and try to teach them the value of $. I hv 2 vehicles I drive a $4k truck, and a $5k Jeep (cd prob sell both for what I paid for…again no money lost).

Heck, I cd retire right now in my 30s and live off my cash flow from my apartments. But I want more. Remember I’m selfish. Life is gd.

I love talking money, I feel I am really smart w my money. My gf thinks I shd b a financial consultant, but I believe people are either wired this way or not.
A decade ago I took all my money out of my ira/mutual fund/stock (whatever it was/can’t remember) and invested in myself and my abilities, creating my own destiny. It wasn’t much $ at the time, but I just knew I rather b in control of my money then someone else. I got a way better rate of return at the tables, and in the housing game. (I feel this is a reason I don’t buy or sell pieces, I just want to b in control of my own destiny. I want all of myself, all of the time.)

I tried to answer this question wo looking smug. I realize now, I look pretty smug; but again #fulltransparency thread so take it for what it is.

Very nice, super happy for you! One thing that myself and many of my friends suffer from is debt from college, you didn't/ don't have any school loans?

I went to both USI (for a year and half), and IUS the rest. Both small schools in Indiana. They weren't very expensive schools mayb $100/credit hr at the time. No school loans.
I can't imagine sm of these graduates who grad from these big/expensive schools w so much debt!
I really don't get it! Don't u go to college so we can get a gd job. ??? And dont we work to get $. ??? It's kind of backwards to me to start w so much debt (unless u really really really hv a great 6 fig job).
Not sure how school loans work, but if u borrow $40k is there any interest on that? Or do u end up paying back $100k when all said and done?

Please note: this is all my opinion and how my brain works. I been wrong many times before, and will b wrong again. I just know I wd never go to a school if I had tons of debt when I grad. Small schools or no schools is just as gd. Look at all the successful people who have either dropped out, or no college education. We all know those people...Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, blah blah blah.
Find what ur good at, and go make a business out of it. Or just start a business: roofing, lawn service, carpentry, etc. think outside the box.