Hey nice thread! Will be following, good luck.
What do you think makes the reg tables so much softer than zoom, am currently thinking about switching to? How did u go about being stricter with game selection, just watching lobbies more?

If you want to climb up the stakes dont go for tge easy way out by playing soffest low stakes games, the money isnt there. If you cant win more than 5bb/100 on 25z your game has a ton of leaks. Im not saying this from a hateful point, I want to help you because I've been there, its not worth it, just get a coach and climb up the stakes, 25z to 100z is "easy" after you know the right things to study and put in the hardwork.

+1, but since he seems to be a part of a CFP program I assume that in the interest of the coaches they prefer the softer sites for the horse

Fairly incorrect here honestly. I agree 100z is not a tough game - but if you are good enough to beat 100z, and playing 100z you are leaving money on the table.

Unless you are an extraordinary outlier Linus style, your aim should be to win as much money as possible. This involves playing in games as good as possible.

You can still improve your technical game whilst playing soft games, the two things are not mutually exclusive.

At nl25/ micros, your aim should be to build up a bankroll ASAP to play games where you can have a high hourly. Playing somewhere that gives you back a high % of the insane rake you pay is a way to accelerate this too.

Even at small/ midstakes, the guys who win the most money are not the best players. Poker is about a lot more than just technical game if your goal is to maximise your earnings.

Thats probably a bad cfp then, allright I totally agree that you have to play where you make the most money, but the money isnt on low stakes. Like, on nl200+ for example I can understand always searching for the sofest games.
Personally I think the money is on highstakes, so I keep playing 200z on stars, I would table select hard on nl1k+ since 200z games are still pretty beatable if you dedicate yourself with the RIGHT methodology, and I cant stress this enough, there is a lot of **** content out there, everywhere.
I havent read the thread, so I didnt know that op was on a cfp, but if the cfp wants the student to "make money" on low stakes is because they dont think they can get their students to midstakes or at least a 100z

I don't think this is great advice. At small stakes the regs have leaks all over the place no matter what site, it's not like we can improve our game all that much by playing with the majority of them. So it makes sense to play where ever you can make the most money.

I think the driving factor for OPs switching site was a lower net rake, not the softness of the games. Stars will of course have more fish than any other site, perhaps slightly better regs on average but I as I said I don't think this really means anything at 25 and 50nl, as we are not learning much about playing a solid strategy from most these guys. Plus I'm sure you will find a handful of "decent" regs (for SSNL anyway) on other sites, if you really think this will hold you back.

Yeah not sure you are going to be learning a lot more from the sick 25z regs vs the worse 25 reg table regs.

Nobody said that he will learn something from any kind of regs at these stakes. However, he will learn to have a solid strategy and fundamentals to beat the field and profit long term by becoming the best player that he can.

I didn't read to which site/stakes shelly moved, however I think it still matters. I am pretty sure you guys can provide him the skillset/strategy to crush fishy sites like the asian apps (just as an example), but is it really the best for him long-term. I don't know. I know guys who have crushed these kinda of sites and after they moved back to stars they were not able to beat 25nl.

But no hate at all here. I find this blog very interesting and was lurking it for awhile.

Exactly, dont think you will be learning something from a 25z lol, actually dont think you will be learning something just by playing against someone, all you will try to do is a poor mimic of what they are doing, you will learn by analyizing the game on a deep level.

Also for sure you should be able to play poker at a high level and still make the most amount of money possible, these things actually go together lol. The point is, there's no money at low stakes, so why game select this ****? Just hit the lab hard and move up as quickly as possible, then you can start to look for the best games.

Endline: game selecting at low stakes isn't worth it, also it will probably be detrimental to your growth as a poker player

Exactly why would it be detrimental? We are talking about iPoker 6m games not some weird 3 blind China app.

Thanks sopranos.



I think there's a wide combination of factors that make reg tables easier than zoom so I'll try to briefly list them.

you can obviously bumhunt and get yourself IP on a whale, something you can't do at zoom where you're relying on positive variance to get in spots vs whales - and even then might not know a whale is a whale so make snap-folds vs aggression that would be fistpump continues if you knew the player - in that sense zoom is actually a better format for fish IMO as it offers a measure of anonymity

it's way easier to tilt at zoom as the action is relentless whereas on reg-tables you always have time to compose yourself - so the effects of mistakes, leaks and mental weaknesses are magnified at zoom

the regs are generally weaker on reg-tables for the reasons mentioned above, as even bad zoom regs have had to harden up in the tougher format and figure out some more advanced strats to stop themselves from going broke, whereas reg-table regs have games more orientated towards exploiting fish, and at 25nl maybe don't adjust vs regs as they should which makes your life easier as you're often facing multiple streets of aggression from unbalanced 40 WWSF 70 W$SD type guys

back on the topic of table selection, you can choose to leave tables that are trash and find better ones, whereas at zoom in an all reg lineup, even if it's all -2 to +2 bb regs you're still likely losing as a 4bb+ winner after rake is factored in



I've definitely missed a bunch of stuff here but I'm somewhat limited for time so I'm going to leave it at that.


WRT stricter table-selection, the more I played on the reg-tables the more I was able to mark the pool so it became easier to look at tables and know whether it was worth sitting or not. I also stayed sat on tables before where I was likely losing after rake was factored because there was a 15bb fish somewhere on the table. In reality that sort of fish wouldn't justify staying on the table.

With that in mind I think your colour-coding and note-taking games need to be on point. This obviously all helps with selecting tables, although it might take a bit of time and effort to get that up to a point where you're reaping the rewards.



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Sup guys. I didn't update after finishing grinding yesterday as I needed to address the recent debate ITT but decided to leave that until today.


I appreciate and consider all feedback people take the time to offer in here, but I can't agree at all that game selecting limits progress at the micros. Ultimately, I want to make money playing poker and the switch to reg-tables on stars / this site move are all giving me a better opportunity to do that. My long-term goal is to be a solid winner @ 100nl. I started this current foray into poker grinding 10nl and will soon be a reg @ 50nl. I've also improved my game massively in this time, from struggling @ 10nlz to having a game that I believe would be doing very well at 50nl reg-tables. It's just a case of making that stepup now.


I also have to rebut the suggestion that my backers are doing something not in my best interests by helping me switch to a better ecosystem. I've been in quite a few stables and have recently spoken to people in other stables, so I'm not brown-nosing or creeping when I state that bitB is world-class. It's truly an amazing group to be a part of and the path to reaching my goals has been laid out in front of me. It's obviously my job to walk it, which I hope I'll do, but I've spoken to people in other stables and when they've told me what their group does for them and what their deals are my eyes water for them.


Finally, I think it's fairly relevant to point out that I'm not switching because I couldn't beat the games on Stars. Granted, my winrates were unspectacular, but I was winning @ 25nlz even before I joined bitB and my game has improved a great deal since the start of 2019.





This is about moving to a better ecosystem where I'm being rewarded more appropriately for my own hard work, not lining the revenues of a monopolising corporation. The fact that the network seems significantly softer is a huge bonus, and I also think you can make a case that it's good training for playing vs fish. Ultimately, that's where your profits in poker are mostly coming from, whether you're a 25nl zoom grinder or a midstakes boss.



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Will quickly update yesterday as this post is well past TLDR levels.


Had a solid, productive day. Figured that there was nothing wrong with the HUD stats I was just being dopey and not understanding terminologies. Got all the pre-session work done and then the grind went fine. Slightly disappointing as I was up maybe 5BI but dropped it all back in the final 400 hands but w/e it happens.


The plan with this site move was to get used to the software and then move to 50nl. I discussed this with a coach yesterday and we're planning on having that sorted for Friday, so I'll post a graph of volume so far before that switch. Hopefully I can have a couple of good days beforehand to leave 20nl on a high note.


The plan for today is to do a little HUD work, setup a 6-tabling layout, and then to grind obv. Will update later. (unless a big debate rages again in which case I might just postpone it until the morning after )



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Goals for Wed 8/5/19

[ ] make the improvements to HUD that I've listed

[ ] sort through all saved hands from previous session

[ ] complete PF spots before grinding

[ ] Lumosity workout before grinding

[ ] 4.5hrs+ total grind 20NL

[ ] review these daily goals before day is done

[ ] new long-term goals before day is done

My 2c about the table/game/site selection issue. You can do it, and still face tough regulars and improve your game vs them, all while still having fish so you´re +EV and can show a regular/decent profit. It´s easy to say op should keep playing on stars zoom to get better quickly, but I´ll tell you it´s not many ppl who have the mental fortitude to keep grinding a very low/be wr for days/weeks in a row in order to improve faster in, let´s say, 3-6 months. He can enter a downswing and be forced to move down, or even end up broke. Tilt. Etc. Don´t underestimate how hard it is on the motivation of a lot of people to be facing many losing sessions in a row while you´re still learning the game and don´t have full confidence.

I think he can get the best of both worlds by keep playing softer games. Even if it can take longer for him to be an endboss, as long as he doesn´t get too comfortable/stagnate/stop working off the tables, he´ll get there eventually if he has the brains and the stamina.

Cheers!

Yep agree with most of that. Poker is an insanely tough game mentally and even some of the more successful players must have dark moments. I know I've had plenty since starting this thread. Also think it's kind of important to get some form of enjoyment out of grinding. Maybe for some that's to play in tougher games and try to dominate the other grinders. Even if it hampers my progression, that's not what I enjoy. I like it when whales are OOP hammering the pot button and I'm sat with the effective nuts.



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Quick update.

Had a decent enough day. Got all my goals completed and then put in some respectable volume playing mostly 5-6 tables. Today was the first day where the network felt reggy. Maybe there's a midweek slump but the lineups were nowhere near as good as they have been. Didn't run particularly well either, and also got too sticky in a few spots vs regs which hammered my redline. Think I could've let a few hands go on turns and saved some money.


Tomorrow will hopefully be my last day at 20nl. I'll post a graph of volume so far when I'm finished. Got a busy day to come.



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Goals for Thu 9/5/19

[ ] sort through all saved hands from previous session

[ ] complete PF spots before grinding

[ ] Lumosity workout before grinding

[ ] 2k+ hands @ 20NL

[ ] review these daily goals before day is done

[ ] new long-term goals before day is done



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Just realised I set a goal to set long-term goals a few days back and never did it, and have been C+P that for the last few days - but definitely will tomorrow!

people have spoken fwiw.

I can't speak for small stakes where edges are likely thinner, but at micros I'd argue game selection is king, and tbh wouldn't be surprised if it's the same at higher levels. Even a -10bb fish crushes on a table full of -80bb whales.



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Sup guys. Super tilting day that I'm finishing early for reasons I'll explain.


Everything was going great. Had done all my pre-session work; grinded for a few hours; had a great game of squash; and then was settling in for a hard night of grinding. Was running fairly aids vs the limping fish but enjoying myself regardless. About 40mins into it my internet just randomly dropped, which it does a lot. The stupid thing is, all you have to do is reset the router but that takes a few minutes and is no good for grinding. I'm with vodafone and to cut a long story short, having them provide your internet is the equivalent to having dr harold shipman provide your hospital care.


Anyway, I'm pretty frustrated over the situation and heavily regretting not switching ISP when I moved house at the start of the year. Unfortunately I was strapped for cash at the time and didn't want to pay off my contract. Huge mistake and I'm wishing now I'd somehow scraped the dosh. I'm going to take the rest of the night off to reset mentally ready for 50nl tomorrow. I'll also go to my phone provider tomorrow and speak to them about getting a backup tethered hotspot for if this happens again, and I'll be getting in touch with vodafone and seeing what spiel they give me this time.


As a result of all that, and that I'll be switching to 4-tabling whilst I settle in at 50, volume won't be particularly great tomorrow although I'll be looking to ramp it up on Sat/Sun.


As promised here's a (slightly inaccurate) graph of volume on the new site so far.






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Goals for Fri 10/5/19 to Sun 12/5/19

[ ] 14+hrs total grind 50nl

[ ] complete the daily workout on Lumosity before first grinding session of each day

[ ] make notes on all note hands from previous day before first grinding session of each day

[ ] review all PF spots from previous day before first grinding session of each day

[ ] written analysis of at least 2 combos spots over the weekend

[ ] post a hand a day in the bitB HH channel

[ ] comment on at least 2 bitB HH hands over the weekend

[ ] attend all group coaching sessions

[ ] review these goals first thing on Monday

[ ] new long-term goals first thing on Monday

Yo. Had a really strong, productive weekend. Worked hard both on and off the tables. I actually find weekends tougher than weekdays to be productive, which is counter-intuitive as they're theoretically the days that matter the most WRT playing specifically. Think it's partly psychological as it's tough to see family/friends, refuse drink and then go home to play poker on a Saturday night for example; but also physical as I play a lot of brutal squash games over the weekend and often feel exhausted afterwards. It's just part of the line of work though and def a much nicer feeling waking up on Monday morning feeling like you took advantage of the weekend opportunities vs feeling like a lazy bum.


The grind itself went fine. 4-tabled 50nl for the most part. I don't think I played particularly well but I didn't lose and felt like I was clearly +ev. I experienced a few brief moments of mental volatility, but I think that's kind of to be expected when stepping up to a higher level. Every little pot seems to mean so much more and I was 2nd guessing myself more than I would do at 20/25nl. Also spewed off in chat a few times which was really dumb, not least because some of the players I was spewing to are probably bots...


Overall though I'm pleased to have got some experience under my belt. Definitely built a good feel of the population and don't think I have anything to fear. There's also a steady stream of fish/whales that will surely make the level highly profitable for my current standard, even before RB is taken into consideration. Also feel like a bunch the regs are really faceup and I could've saved money in a few spots by being less sticky vs nitty, unbalanced ranges.


The plan for this week is more of the same really, although I'll be upping table count @ 50nl to between 4-6 and using 20nl to supplement as the 50nl games don't always run in the day time. I'll also be looking to do a lot of studying to improve/stay confident in the event that results take a turn for the worse. One area I think I need a lot of work in is c/r strats in SRP so I'm going to dig out a video on those and see what the crack is. I've also got a bunch of coaching sessions this week that I'm looking forward to, including a 1-on-1 tomorrow.


Today specifically I'm not sure I'll play 50nl as I'm overtired. Didn't go to bed until 3am but for some stupid reason I woke way before my alarm at around 8am. I think that when I push myself, as I have done over the last few days, I put my body into a stressed state that prevents me from reaching deep sleep. I guess I'll nap at some point today and then decide later whether I feel sharp enough to grind 50nl. If not will just drop down to 20 for the day.


I'll post my graphs so far on the network. The 50nl graph should be accurate although the overall graph is missing a few hands from when my connection dropped a few days back. I guess I'll see at some point if importing all hands, like you can do on stars, is a possibility.



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Weekend 50nl Graph





Ipoker - all stakes so far





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Goals for Mon 13/5/19 to Fri 17/5/19

[ ] 7.2k+ total hands @ 50nl

[ ] complete the daily workout on Lumosity before first grinding session of each day

[ ] make notes on all note hands from previous day before first grinding session of each day

[ ] review all PF spots from previous day before first grinding session of each day

[ ] written analysis of at least 5 combos spots

[ ] watch and complete at least 2 training videos and make notes

[ ] post a hand a day in the bitB HH channel

[ ] comment on at least 3 bitB HH hands

[ ] attend all coaching sessions

[ ] no intentionally checking results or balance until final session of each day is done

[ ] review these goals on Saturday 14/5/19

[ ] new long-term goals on Saturday 14/5/19