Hi again, as many know, I have a bunch of failed PG&C threads. My last one, I wouldn't call a failure, but my progress had gotten a bit stagnant, and I had started slipping into old (bad) habits. I want to change things and be more successful. And improve my discipline and attitude.

I think the best way to start is by setting goals, one at a time. Complete the goal, and then create another one that will help me take another step closer to working my way up. I will post my results after each goal completed, and will also try and post hands fairly often while progressing.

And I also mentioned I want to improve my attitude. I had a bad habit of trying to create new, unique/unorthodox strategies. Or using fancy BRM plans (or constantly changing those plans). Of thinking I'm better than I was. Projecting myself as the next zoom prodigy. You get the point.

This is a fresh start for me. It's about playing solid, and trying to do things the right way. I'll post hands where I think I didn't play great, or other hands where I think I did. And if you disagree, feel free to let me know and offer help (but try not to do so in a negative way ). I want to improve, and will take anything I can out of any advice given.

Goal #1: Play 50k hands at nl2z

The reasons for this goal are simple. One, to build my BR back up a bit more. It's currently at $73. And two, to start rebuilding my discipline. To get back into the habit of putting in volume and trying to play solid poker. It's a simple, very achievable goal that I should be able to build upon.

Had a session yesterday, as well as a few hands today, to start this goal with. Will post some hands in a few minutes.

As promised, a few hands to start this off:

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H1: Villain was 16/10 over 300 hands with a 1% 3bet (once in 115 hands).

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.00
SB: $3.84
BB: $9.09
UTG: $5.13
MP: $0.95
Hero (CO): $2.06

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K K

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.05, fold, fold, BB raises to $0.24, fold



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H2: I think I misplayed the flop and should have check-called. As played, I probably shouldn't be jamming the turn either. I don't think it's too big of a mistake in the bigger picture, but I don't like the way I chose to play it, looking back at it.

EDIT: Also, I may have misclicked the raise sizing on the flop, as I usually would raise bigger.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.00
Hero (SB): $3.17
BB: $1.41
UTG: $3.31
MP: $1.83
CO: $2.01

Hero posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A K

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.06, fold, Hero raises to $0.24, fold, CO calls $0.18

Flop: ($0.50, 2 players) 9 5 J
Hero checks, CO bets $0.18, Hero raises to $0.40, CO calls $0.22

Turn: ($1.30, 2 players) 3
Hero bets $2.53 and is all-in, CO calls $1.37 and is all-in

River: ($4.04, 2 players) 3



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H3: Main villain is 21/18/8 over 600 hands

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $4.98
SB: $0.13
BB: $2.00
Hero (UTG): $3.10
MP: $4.25
CO: $1.48

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K A

Hero raises to $0.05, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.16, SB calls $0.12 and is all-in, fold, Hero calls $0.11

Flop: ($0.47, 3 players) 7 A Q
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.24, Hero calls $0.24

Turn: ($0.95, 3 players) 8
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.22, fold

River: ($0.95, 2 players) J



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H4: Villain is 32/27/10 over 80 hands. I probably don't like the river call too much, but on the other hand, against this kind of villain, not sure if I should be calling or not.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $1.88
SB: $2.58
BB: $2.15
UTG: $2.25
MP: $1.74
Hero (CO): $2.67

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K A

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.05, fold, fold, BB calls $0.03

Flop: ($0.11, 2 players) Q 2 5
BB checks, Hero bets $0.04, BB calls $0.04

Turn: ($0.19, 2 players) 7
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.19, 2 players) K
BB checks, Hero bets $0.06, BB raises to $0.20, Hero calls $0.14



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H5: Villain is unknown.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.70
SB: $2.04
Hero (BB): $2.00
UTG: $2.05
MP: $2.00
CO: $4.78

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 8 A

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.05, fold, Hero calls $0.03

Flop: ($0.11, 2 players) A 3 7
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.04, Hero calls $0.04

Turn: ($0.19, 2 players) 8
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.09, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN raises to $0.56, Hero calls $0.26

River: ($1.31, 2 players) 8
Hero bets $1.35 and is all-in, BTN calls $1.35

1) Move ASAP to partypoker to build bankroll faster.
2) Please never fold preflop KK to a 3bet, atleast just call and see a flop.
The most +EV play longterm vs any player at any stake playing 100bb is 100% 4bet and call allin.
3) Use a simple BRM strategy: when you have 100 buyins at your current stake take between 5-10 buyins shot at the next level till you have atleast 70 buyins at the new level and then do the same thing for the next level till you reach a level that you feel like you are making enough money so that poker is a full-time job
Good Luck

Sub´d obv

Cheers

One suggestion I should make to you is for your goals to be performance driven, more than volume. Idk what is your current 2nl wr, but from your posts I assume it´s obv bigger than 0 but not crushing.

Unfortunately I don´t know the numbers filtered for zoom, but of the 100 players with most tracked hands (6-max), the top 10 on winrate made an avg of 15.21 bb/100 (out of curiosity, someone played 1.4M hands and lost 3.7K, maybe Paisting lol?). Let´s assu me some of this are normal tables from before the cap, but I think the avg high volume grinder plays zoom, so a 30% discount might be good? So the top 10 2nlz crushers would maybe have an avg winrate of 10 bb/100.

Compare that info with your current winrate and then develop a plan to (slowly, steadily and with good chances of success) increase it.

So to summarize my suggestion, more improvement based goals, less volume goals

Cheers

1. Quit Stars. Not just because it is a tough environment, with lolbad rakeback (not so much just now due Covid) but more important prove to yourself that you are willing to learn things about the online poker world that are massivly +EV

2. Quit Zoom/Fast Fold. For similar reasons as above. Or at least play a mix of both (Zoom to learn, reg speed to profit)

3. Find some pgc of real, verified winning poker players (like Richard Shiels) and listen to what they are saying.

100% positive imho

i only read the first hand, yikes.

Got to disagree with people suggesting a move to partypoker for 2NL. Stars 2NL rake is 3.5% while PP has 5%. Unless you're mindlessly 6-tabling ZOOM all day long to top leaderboards, you'll make more effective "rakeback" on Stars. That, and the pool is much larger and softer.

Subbed. I followed your last thread although didn’t post much. I hope you reach your goals. GL

IMHO the problem isn´t necessarily stars, but stars zoom

Party FF judging from other threads doesn´t seem a very viable option at anything above the low micros, if you´re not a competent player to begin with, that can accept the insane variance and grind enough hours to get the rakeback.

H1-You can't fold KK pre to a 3bet omg. 115 hands isn't enough to say he only 3bet AA.

H3-AKo, thats a 4bet vs BU. Even though you were behind thats a pretty tight fold on turn.

You a weak tight nit.

I think a HUD can do more harm than good at these stakes. The pool is so large it makes it hard to get a decent sample, so you can end up making adjustments against regs that aren't correct or necessary.

Also, by relying on HUD stats you make the assumption that people at 2NL structure their ranges logically, which they don't. I've seen 8/4 nits defending 3bets OOP with 46s and calling 3 streets with bottom pair.

Excellent Post

some times he is, other times he is shoving in his stack as clear dog, when villain ain't folding. Add those up and you get ....

True

My point about moving away from Stars is't just about the field/rb. It's also about learning the big online picture and where you can make better money.

I wouldn't make that point to a 2nl noob obviously...but op has been playing online for what 8 years.

Could say more, but then I'd be being negative

You also said "more important prove to yourself that you are willing to learn things about the online poker world that are massivly +EV" in the post above. Would you be able to point me in the right direction for things that would be +EV in the big online picture of poker?

the KK fold...

you are trying to be far too clever. Turn your HUD off, and learn to play poker. You are over-adjusting, misusing HUD stats with insufficient samples.

Thanks guys.

oneselfishguy: After hearing opinions on nl2 at PP, I'll stay at Stars for now. But, I would not be opposed to trying out PP. I could grind out more at Stars, then withdraw and deposit some at PP. Will figure out later once I reach that point. If I did that, I think I'd probably play at both sites; trying to move up on Stars, while using PP to make some easier money (if indeed that was the case).

Simple BRM is good. I may also want to ensure a minimum WR at the current level before trying to shot-take higher.

The KK hand, I agree I could be trying to make decisions based on a sample size that is too small. This situation doesn't come up often, so it's not a huge mistake in the big picture. I was not only looking at the 3B%, but at the fact he was a 16/10 supernit who was 3-betting to 5x my RFI size. To me, it just screamed KK+ (if not just AA). And maybe it's wrong to bring my gut feelings into it. That's just how I felt. I just figured it was better to let it go.

Fazendeiro: Actually, I was planning to have improvement based goals. My first goal, just wanted to get some hands and see where I'm at. Then, try and figure out the next step. I was thinking of having some goals like x # of hands with a certain wr. And yeah, trying to work towards the top winrates is a good pursuit haha.

With respect to Party Poker, what do you consider low micros? What stakes are better/softer on PP (and thus when would you move back to Stars)?

OldManDecaf: Will search for Richard Shiels' PGC, thanks. Am going to finish the first goal of 50k hands before figuring out the next step. Putting some money on PP is an option as I mentioned above. On Stars, don't know if I could quit zoom. Stars only allows 4 reg tables, and I don't think I'd get enough volume. However, could do both reg tables and zoom tables. Honestly, it depends on how much bigger winrates would be on reg tables.

Any2Suited: Yeah, will stick with Stars for now while I play nl2z. I'd just respond to your other point by saying that nits defending wide by calling is different from nits defending wide by being aggressive. They may call with weak hands, but they're probably not likely to be raising with weak hands.

Claret~N~Blue: Thanks!

Bamboo: Commented on the KK hand above.

Should we really be 4betting AKo UTG, especially at the micros? To me, it seems marginal, and if 4betting is correct, I'd guess the EV difference is pretty small. I could be totally wrong with that one.

Might be a tight fold on the turn, but most times, this type of strong betting by reg-ish players is the nuts. At least at these stakes, from my experience. I was reading another thread by a successful player who advocated folding more in order to have more success moving out of the micros. So been trying to do that. Obviously not as much against the more aggressive players though. Part of what's been holding me back is making too many big calls in these types of situations and losing stacks.

amazin lazer: Yeah, I'm guilty of misusing my HUD at times. But there are obviously other times when it comes in pretty handy. Just got to do a better job with knowing when to use it.

Have you tried semen retention?

Really a no brainer.

Don't know what to make of that lol. Anyway, some hands from today's session:

EDIT: OldManDecaf, what is Richard Shiels' 2+2 username? Tried searching, but couldn't find anything.

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H1: UTG appears to be a rec player; calling flop donk shove because of that.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $4.58
SB: $2.34
Hero (BB): $7.42
UTG: $3.20
MP: $2.01
CO: $2.36

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has K A

UTG calls $0.02, fold, CO raises to $0.09, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.36, UTG calls $0.34, CO calls $0.27

Flop: ($1.09, 3 players) 3 7 A
Hero checks, UTG bets $2.84 and is all-in, CO calls $2.00 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.84

Turn: ($8.77, 3 players) J

River: ($8.77, 3 players) 3



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H2: BB is unknown

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $4.85
SB: $2.75
BB: $1.96
UTG: $1.42
MP: $2.00
Hero (CO): $2.37

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has J J

UTG raises to $0.04, MP calls $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, fold, fold, BB calls $0.02

Flop: ($0.17, 4 players) T 8 9
BB checks, UTG bets $0.06, MP calls $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, BB raises to $0.46, fold, fold, fold



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H3: Villain is 8/0 after 12 hands, so not much known.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $3.09
SB: $2.86
BB: $3.68
UTG: $3.83
Hero (MP): $4.52
CO: $3.71

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has A 6

fold, Hero raises to $0.05, fold, BTN calls $0.05, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.13, 2 players) T A 9
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

Turn: ($0.33, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.24, Hero raises to $0.60, BTN raises to $2.94 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.34

River: ($6.21, 2 players) 5

BTN cashed out $0.53 for a fee of $0.01



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H4: Purely an exploitative 5B. Villain was RFI 67% on the BU (650 hand sample), and had a 4B of 21%. And you know, Ace blocker.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $2.55
SB: $2.59
Hero (BB): $2.00
UTG: $2.00
MP: $2.00
CO: $2.00

SB posts SB $0.01, Hero posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 4 A

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to $0.06, fold, Hero raises to $0.24, BTN raises to $0.50, Hero raises to $2.00 and is all-in, fold

H2: Not sure if it's profitable to have an overcalling range from that position, would prefer a squeeze

Rest seem alright, would lean towards folding H1 after CO calls the shove though.

His sn here is Richard Sheils

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/1...nture-1632084/

I consider NL2-NL16 low micros, then NL25-NL50 upper micros. Obv this is just for me, not sure how other ppl group those stakes

Anyway, even at the lower stakes, your wr before rb will probably be lower than stars given same game. Too much possible bots. One anecdote: during one of my many short run game changes about 1.5 years ago, I decided to try hypers HUSNG and mixed stars and party. Only the lowest ones. At stars, things were pretty random but most players seemed really fishy/random and undisciplined with what they were doing. Never ever thought I wasn´t facing a human. At party, mixed feelings but I swear I played 2 random guys who seemed so robotic (not only the actual poker play, but equal timings for any action etc) that I can´t help but think it was blatant botting/cheating.

Not to mention the crappy software, never understood why it is so difficult to develop a good user interface for playing poker.

And this lack of attention to detail is pretty sad as Party support a few years ago (not sure how it is now) was really good. Actual phone support with local number and portuguese speaking staff. Way better than Stars.

Isn’t 25NL-100NL low stakes? I always thought 2NL-16NL were micros

Subbed, GL (Again).

Seems to have changed now, since the regs prefer 100nl and up. Helps if you have been playing a few years, I believe. Just over one year myself, not ready for 200 nl.

When I first joined this forum it was:

2nl-50nl: Microstakes
100nl-200nl: Small Stakes
500(400)nl-1knl: Midstakes
Anything above that: Highstakes

Edit: Just saw stars software puts 25-50nl as lowstakes

Ignition/Bovada/Bodog does that as well.

Hmm, maybe I'll hold off trying Party then. Still a good chance I'll try it at some point, but will stick with Stars for the time being. I did download the Party software though, and took a look at the rake/rakeback. One thing I did notice is that on the rake page, I didn't see any mention of no rake if the hand ended before the flop. Does that mean all hands are raked (even those that end preflop)?