Yeah for once he is right , you are butchering your own thread with walls and walls of these hands that are a new level of TLDR,
one or two hands would have sufficed
Right now I need a place to post them so I can review later. In the end I will make a post with all reads I got and some examples, as well as counterstrategies.
It may sound insane, but the only type of people I godmode are big nits, imo Im as confused(if not more) playing vs fish as when Im facing top regs like isramalzetov, jakeeeee.
Sure, Im +ev vs fish and -ev vs those regs, but I dont make the maximum off fish. I probably beat them by 5-20 bbs/100, while an expert in owning fish could beat them for more than 40bbs. But Im probably losing way less vs these top regs than the average reg at 200z loses too. If Im capable of owning a fishs soul all the time, I expect ny winrate to go up at least by 2bb/100.
6-7 hours, analyzed 700 so far.
And its not play money, most of them are .25 sngs
this is by far the most insightful and productive study time Ive had. When Im done I expect to have a big boost in my winrate.
Yes because micro full ring sng's have a lot of relevance to 6 max 200nl. There you go again with such a level of stupidity that makes me suspicious we are all getting trolled again.
Yes because micro full ring sng's have a lot of relevance to 6 max 200nl. There you go again with such a level of stupidity that makes me suspicious we are all getting trolled again.
My internet is at 24 kbps, cant even log at stars. And poker is poker, it doesnt matter if youre playing nl2 or nl200, sure, regs and regfish are better, but the fish is the same. I often tightened up a lot vs fish because I wasnt confident in playing vs them.
Soooooo, back at analyzing the hands! I'm almost finishing limped pots, SRP will be more interesting and 3-bet pots will be gold imo.
H46: same ****, min-3-bet OTF and check back OTT, afraid of the flush. We should just donk-jam turn vs that if we have a flush. Even for 4x pot the fish won't fold his sets imo
cleuberfranc shows Q Q (Three of a Kind, Queens)
(Pre 81%, Flop 96%, Turn 98%) Rapidesh123 mucks 4 4 (Three of a Kind, Fours)
(Pre 19%, Flop 4%, Turn 2%) cleuberfranc wins 98 BB
H47: the small raise with the flush in a paired board, really sick read, I think that in that spot I'll be able to maximize value and avoid tons of coolers vs fish. Also x back OTT to slowplay is sooo frequent with the flush
H48: this hand, lol! Can't understand WTF is going on. OTT I thought villain would check a lot, because his value hands are afraid of the flush, but he kept betting, so he probably had some sort of bluff.Rapifish obv calling a gutter vs 2x overbet lol. Donk river jam is very tough to call, meh. But I've seen a lot of flushes min-raise turn, I've seen as well some flushes call turn and donk river too.
H49: another donk lead OTT with weak SDV, probably a hand turned into a bluff because of the "scary card", and x give up OTR. It seems that we should raise a lot of leads OTT with our bluffs and call with our weak SDV hands and try to see some cheap showdown vs give ups. River is probably underbluffed with that line unless a 4th diamond comes imo
River:(52.37 BB, 2 players) 9 Rapidesh123 checks, Dismay_pro bets 35.23 BB and is all-in, fold
Dismay_pro wins 52.37 BB
H50: dat stab, check, line, rapifish was way more balanced than I thought lol! pot OTF, check and pot river. I've seen that line with overpairs a lot in the tables. But usually there's a sizing difference, when the fish is bluffing OTR is usually 50%. Also even if the fish played exactly the same with his value and bluffs I expect to see that line as heavily bluffed because of how often clubs check turn.
Flop:(4 BB, 4 players) T 4 2 Punk Stein checks, CattadeMoron checks, Rapidesh123 bets 6 BB, fold, Punk Stein calls 6 BB, fold
Turn:(16 BB, 2 players) 4 Punk Stein checks, Rapidesh123 checks
River:(16 BB, 2 players) 6 Punk Stein checks, Rapidesh123 bets 16 BB, Punk Stein calls 16 BB
Spoiler:
Rapidesh123 shows A A (Two Pair, Aces and Fours)
(Pre 81%, Flop 89%, Turn 100%) Punk Stein mucks 6 7 (Two Pair, Sixes and Fours)
(Pre 19%, Flop 11%, Turn 0%) Rapidesh123 wins 48 BB
H51: bluff working on rapifish, lol! From the hands we've seen so far it's likely villain has a slowplay OTT, or a draw that raise flop, see the bdfd OTT and checked and got there. Mostly FH imo. Funny to see rapifish folding this, probably was afraid of the flush. I don't know if bluffing OTR when the flush comes is really useful vs fish because of the insanely ******ed calls I've seen so far lol.
H52: was really thinking rapifish would check this back OTR, but it seems that whenever you get a boner with your hand, it's hard to stop betting lol. Also fish won't care that much about bdfd when they have a good hand? But could still be afraid when they have a bluffcatcher?
River:(28.5 BB, 2 players) Q Rapidesh123 bets 14.07 BB and is all-in, Widzewek1910 calls 13.19 BB and is all-in
Spoiler:
Rapidesh123 shows J Q (Three of a Kind, Queens)
(Pre 44%, Flop 34%, Turn 30%) Widzewek1910 shows 6 K (Two Pair, Kings and Queens)
(Pre 56%, Flop 66%, Turn 70%) Rapidesh123 wins 54.89 BB
H56: it's funny to see the min-raise, then getting super afraid of the flush, but then thinking, "hey, I have trips, vaaaaamo!" lol. So random haha. Whenever a fish checks OOP OTR after being the aggressor OTT, theyr x range is sooooo strong.
H57: these pot sized donks OTT on random cards, I've seen a lot of weird 2-pairs that got there OTT when that happened, but also saw a 2x pot donk OTT that was a hand turned into a bluff that called a jam after that haha.
I think literally anything else would be a better use of time. What is the point of this?
find exploits/patterns/tendencies on fish? What do you think would be better to impact my winrate? I've already watched an insane amount of RIO videos, still review some hands in a study group and look at the material brokenstars sent me.
I could analyze 200z regs and look on exploits vs them or see if I'm underbluffing or overbluffing in some spots, but I have a reasonable idea of how to play vs them and how they think. While I have absolutely no clue on how to exploit fish super big on these marginal spots. The only thing I do vs fish is to just valuebet a lot and don't pay them off as much, but I'm pretty sure they're bluffing me off the pot a lot and overbluffing like crazy and getting folds vs me.
find exploits/patterns/tendencies on fish? What do you think would be better to impact my winrate? I've already watched an insane amount of RIO videos, still review some hands in a study group and look at the material brokenstars sent me.
I could analyze 200z regs and look on exploits vs them or see if I'm underbluffing or overbluffing in some spots, but I have a reasonable idea of how to play vs them and how they think. While I have absolutely no clue on how to exploit fish super big on these marginal spots. The only thing I do vs fish is to just valuebet a lot and don't pay them off as much, but I'm pretty sure they're bluffing me off the pot a lot and overbluffing like crazy and getting folds vs me.
Oh Ok so it seems you really are this ******ed, and do seem to think micro sng's, had some relevance to how 100z+ fish play despite the whole format, stack sizes, ranges, stakes being totally different, just because they are all 'fish'.
Here is a ground breaking suggestion for you. Why the fk are you not analyzing the hands from the fish at the actual zoom games you play?
Since there are way more hands rapifish raised pre, I'll first make a macro analysis and separate by spots. The spots I'll analyze will be bet bet bet as the PFR, cbet and check back, how rapifish played facing flop raises, check bet bet and how he played raising a cbet
In the bet bet bet line as the pfr, there were 12 value hands and only 1 bluff, and the bluff was in a HU $3.50 sng lol
H58: The bluff hand, river was such a sick bluff. Gotta pay attention to the hand selection, fish bluff with 0 equity hands, so even a very ****ty runnout wouldn't change that much. In fact, the ****tier the runnout, the easier for the fish to bluff
H59: So far a lot of the double barrels are TPWK and midpairs, there are some random draws, but very few, the majority of the range is like second pair type of hands. It seems that we shouldn't fold TPWK vs that, also we should donk river after improving at a high frequency because we can't expect the fish to barrel a lot OTR, so far there are insane amounts of give ups in there. Sick bluff lol.
H60: My guess is that with that much SDV in their double barreling range, when they check after cbetting flop, they will have A LOT of crap. Later will try to make some ranges and see how would be the best way to float fish OOP and bluff the river, like which sizing would be best to bluff. Also could use different valuebet sizings to always get called by their SDV with our valuebets. Sick fold by rapifish in this one, but it was MW and the guy probably had it lol.
H61: there are some bluffs OTT, specially when an J, Q, K or A came in there, but the range has waaaay more value in there lol. Btw, insane fold OTR in there, it probably was like that because it was ITM. Also I don't see how we can show up with bluffs in that spot, it's hard for us to have some +EV calls OTT that want to donk river
Have to say I admire your attitude of just yearning to play poker, firing up play money tables when the internet is down, updating this thread regularly.
However, coming from someone who wasted one month playing play money at the start of his poker journey, and likes to play these micro micro games when he's bored: you're not gonna learn anything, people just don't care at that level.
Have to say I admire your attitude of just yearning to play poker, firing up play money tables when the internet is down, updating this thread regularly.
However, coming from someone who wasted one month playing play money at the start of his poker journey, and likes to play these micro micro games when he's bored: you're not gonna learn anything, people just don't care at that level.
I'm not playing play money, man lol. I'm reviewing my database to see how I played when started with poker, the first 33k hands I played.
How could I just limp-call 28o for 100bbs today lol
H63: sick bluff OTR lol. sizing is very wp imo. So insane to see rapifish find the best sizing in that spot with only intuition and 0 study. A lot of fish are very smart and way better poker players than we think they are.
Turn:(47.73 BB, 2 players) K erdmänchen75 checks, Rapidesh123 checks
River:(47.73 BB, 2 players) K erdmänchen75 checks, Rapidesh123 bets 143.63 BB and is all-in, erdmänchen75 calls 143.63 BB
Spoiler:
Rapidesh123 shows J A (Full House, Kings full of Jacks)
(Pre 68%, Flop 83%, Turn 98%) erdmänchen75 shows A T (Full House, Kings full of Jacks)
(Pre 32%, Flop 17%, Turn 2%) erdmänchen75 wins 167.5 BB Rapidesh123 wins 167.5 BB
H64: insane fold by rapifish, can't believe he folded that lol. I don't know if usually fish fold in there, but some weaktight might. If fish is calling only with flushes it's already a very +EV bluff for us
H65: I'm tracking the statistics of rapifish OTR, quite interesting to see, the funny thing is that so far OTR he will have a lot of value and yet he could find some random bluffs in there lol. On brick rivers rapifish didn't bluff yet, he has a narrow value range in there though. Funny to see that even fish are somewhat balanced with their lines, like capable of finding bluffs in spots where they have value. Ofc some fish can overbluff where they never have value haha
H66: this is like the most GTO hand that I've found lol. X back with AA is sooooo good, sizing OTF is also good lol. Ofc the reasons for doing that are probably different from that
What's so strange? Learning sooo much by watching those hands, and not only how to exploit fish, but getting a greater understanding of poker and even gto stuff, like when analyzing some spots where little rapidesh was overfolding like crazy.
after today's studies, I ended up with this excel thing
Basically looked at all spots rapifish cbet flop and check back IP OTT, it's clear that rapifish cbets a lot, so he is likely weak after taking some specific actions. Since close to any TP and some midpair stuff keeps betting OTT and all draws are checking behind, it leaves him with a very very weak river range.
Basically villains could exploit it by betting any2 OTR. I wasn't doing that vs fish, will definitely try that exploit, as well as calling way more fish's cbets, even with naked 2 overs I expect it to be +EV, specially since people love to double barrel on overcards.
But it's not only that, by realizing that exploit which I was rarely using(floating way light OOP and leading rivers), I thought about how to defend vs that. One example is checking a lot of AA OTT to protect our checking range, that play is very common in PIO, which checks a lot OTT after cbetting flop with AA, saw some sims that it checks 50% of the time AA and some KK/QQ overpairs.
Also by doing that, we can raise river for value, and even more than that, by doing it for value, we can add some bluffs too, so for every 2 combos AA we slowplay OTT, we can add one combo of a bluff, increasing our defense frequency a lot OTR, specially vs tough opponents that will attack that weakness relentlessly. Now I see how some tough regs have a very low FCB stat without raising flop so much.
I also was playing a lot of my range as a raise OTF, which is weird, but people played poorly vs that. By adding this kind of play into my game I think I'll be tougher to play against. Let's see how it goes. For now I'll focus just on floating fish lighter, later will see what to do vs regs.
I'm not lost in the woods, I'm with no internet and trying to use my free time into something productive that will improve my game. As crazy as it sounds, these 2 days studying those stupid hands were insane.
vaaaaaaaaaaamooooooooo
Last edited by Rapidesh123; 06-28-2018 at 07:08 PM.