Okay, I'll definitely make that change. SCs from LP only.

Not sure what happened to my red line in this session. Played aggressively but people didn't seem to want to fold today. Also, had a horrible time with suckouts and bad beats. Lost with AA twice again. :/ Still, didn't want to finish down!

Managed to get this session back to -$0.01. The first 600 hands I'd only gone to showdown twice against the same maniac. Both times I had him completely dominated and he sucked out on me both times. Red line was good but towards the middle of the session (when I added 2 more tables), it got a little worse.

I think I have some speculative hands to post but will do so tomorrow morning.

Good session this morning. Should have been better (EV was +$2 more than what I got) but at least I didn't lose EVERY pot I should have won.

PP and SC are good from late position if you are closing the action. You can choose to close it or isolate 3bet. The beauty of those hands is whoever calls will not "range" you on these hands. If you miss, you have aggression and hopefully your cbet takes it down. If you hit, they will not see it coming (unless coolered but whatever that happens). It is better to 3-bet with the lower ones as if you 3bet JTss or KQss etc you may hit but be dominated (as it is in their 3bet calling range). It is about aggression, on XXX board what can they really continue with versus your 3bet range, they will let you know when they hit.

eg. You 3bet 5 times (with non-premiums) and overall you win the pot 3 times.
2 times you got called down and you lose 25% & 45% of your stack = -70%
1 time the c-bet got through on the flop = +10%
1 time the double barrel got through on the turn = +35%
1 time you got someones full stack = +125% (3 people in the pot)
Overall +100% of a stack.

...and then how much do we win with our premiums when people see us 3betting 56ss.
(numbers not accurate but just an example).

Just 2 cents I am learning to apply. I call way too much rather than 3bet (no aggression) which makes it way too obvious when you have a big pair etc. oooohh he's 3-betting, he's got AA....thanks for the blinds guys. You need to be able to disguise those good hands, and that is by raising strong and weak hands.

If only we had the nuts with 20% of our 45s hands. But your point comes across loud and clear. I'll definitely think more about selling hands they can't compete with. Of course not against fish!



Pretty 'meh' session this afternoon. Was just so bland and got boring so I decided to stop. Heart wasn't fully in it.

the theory is sound enough. The application is terrible.This applies as you move up to balance your ranges so that your good hands can get paid off and because people start to fold to the 3bets. At 2nl ,typical villains have no idea about ranges, equity etc they look down and see Ax or KQ and they are gonna see the flop with them. They'll stack off with middle pair. You need to make fat value rather than bluffing people who don't know how to fold.They don't know the theory. All that 3betting will do is create a bigger pot. They also aren't going to fold when they hit the flop either and then those low SCs are going to losing a big pot way to often to make it profitable.
the number accuracy is important here though as the villains will be folding less to both the 3bet and the cbet which will have huge implications for the profitability of doing this. Its also not going to have much difference on whether our premium hands get paid because it won't manipulate the villains continuing range like it will as you move up.
thats the reason for Harvey to add SCs to the range of hands he plays , but to see a cheap flop in position with them , so that he's not a 9/6 nit who won't get paid off but he doesn't lose huge amounts when he misses the flop , but can make a huge pot when he flops straights.As he moves up he'll have to adapt to the villains to take account of their ability to put him on a range, to fold to 3bets, to be more likely to be using a hud. there is a difference between playing weak hands and overplaying them and 3betting low SCs at 2nl is definately overplaying them.

I have to agree with Keith. While your logic is excellent Grant, many players at 2NL can defy logic completely. I recon this alone would have more effect in high stakes games than in 2NL but it's definitely something I haven't thought of and will definitely keep in the back of my mind.

I'm currently just under $7 out from a $200 bankroll which is where I said I wanted to be before I move up to 5NL (40 buy-ins). When I hit that magic number, I'll go over the differences BlackRain talked about between 2NL and 5NL before I sit down at a table. I want to figure out if there are any major changes I need to make before moving up.

If any of you have any recommendations for moving up stakes, that would be awesome!

there will be more nits more tags , less total fish, slightly more 3betting, still try not to bluff,pretty much still play the same and start to learn how to play the nits and tags.

Okay, excellent. I've got a few dollars more to go so I'm hoping within the week I'll be moving up. Had a couple of smaller sessions that ended up in the positive, nothing really to report.

if you want another sweat when you move up hit me up on skype

I can understand completely what you say because it is only 2nl (not meant as condescending) and nobody folds but that should not stop you from learning.

I started at 2nl and the thing I regret is not learning and applying these concepts then (eg 3betting) rather than at higher limits. I would rather get used to it and develop it where I may lose $2 than incorrectly use it at 25nl and lose $25. I went through 2nl, 5nl, 10nl and 3bet KK, AA like 90% of ABC players but am only starting to widen that 3 betting range now.

2nl is 2nl, I get that but it is a great place to develop for the higher levels where the $ is not so significant but I guess relatively speaking vs bankroll it is.

Anyway, you are doing really well Meale, keep it up.

The only difference between 5nl and 2nl is there is just more money on the table. Still heaps of fish, still heaps of regs, still heaps of variance. Don't play scared money or get bullied around.

Thanks Keith. Will do.

Cheers Grant. Will definitely do my best to start implementing these strategies. I found in my last session I was getting raised on the button from the big and small blinds a lot. It's kind of hard knowing whether to call/3-bet with a marginal hand, especially when you don't have them down as a serial re-stealer. I think I've definitely got a lot to learn about pre-flop play.

Calling a raise from the blinds (or contemplate a 3bet) implies that you are limping from the button. NEVER LIMP. If you are getting into a hand raise first. The only time you should "limp" is when you are closing action from the big blind.

And as an aside, it is not the worst thing in the world to get into a tough spot, it is how you learn and how you can confirm whether you have a read. A set, a made flush, AA they are easy to play as they are the nuts but AJ on a JQK22 board or TT on a 345Q7 board, gives you a warm fuzzy inside when you make the best play.

At the moment you have a wonderful opportunity that all the new players reading 2+2 are jelly over and that is having someone who is giving great advice and also willing to take the time to view your play, so big props to Keith.

[img]Calling a raise from the blinds (or contemplate a 3bet) implies that you are limping from the button. NEVER LIMP. If you are getting into a hand raise first. The only time you should "limp" is when you are closing action from the big blind.[/img]

Of course I'm doing the standard 3BB raise from the button, but lately I've seen it get popped up to $0.18 by a lot of regs. Today, for instance, I got a tell on someone who did that and the hand went down like this.

Me: BTN
Him: BB
Me: Raise to $0.06
Him: Repop to $0.18
Me: Raise to $0.46
Him: Raise to $0.74
Me: Shove
Him: Fold

We continued making plays on each other in the blinds/button for the rest of the session. Was quite amusing, TBH.

Today's session went okay. I was hard done by the cards yet again (my AA vs JJ and they flop nut straight, etc) but I managed to get a decent profit.



2NL has been a long road for me and it's been full of ups and downs (literally). But I can finally say, I crushed it. I don't suspect this will be the last time I play 2NL (well, let's hope so), but I now feel that 40BB deep and knowledge in hand, I'm ready to move up to 5NL.



Here's my 2NL graph.



I'd like to say a huge thanks to Keith for getting me back on track. If he'd never have posted in this thread, I don't think I'd be at the point I am today. In fact, I know I wouldn't have been.

I'm planning now on going over CTM and posting a thread for some more transition advice. After that's done, I'll begin my first 5NL session!

its one thing to drop down a level to try and include different strategies into your game. Its bankroll suicide trying to include strategies to beat 25nl+ into a beginners 2nl game.they work higher up because people fold.. So whats the point in doing it at a level where people don't fold?.
It works at higher stakes because it balance your ranges so that good hands get paid off and part of the profitability of the play comes from the premiums getting paid. So why do it at 2nl where opponents don't have a clue what ranges are, they are playing the 2 cards in front of them and will pay off your premium hands anyway.

Beating 2nol is all about getting fat value from the fish. Not trying to get fancy

Hey guys. I've been playing some 2NL and been applying strategy given this thread. It's doing me wonders too.

Seems pretty easy if you stick with it. Will continue to build my roll and aim for 5NL.

Thanks to everyone who's contributing.

Glad to hear you're playing well. Keep it up!

Had a good first session at 5NL.



Yes, it was quite short, but I'm happy with how I adjusted. Initially, seeing the new bet sizes was a little confusing (is this 3BB or 4BB?) but after a few orbits, I adjusted.

woooo hoooooo


congrats on the move up and its nice to hit the new level with a winning start.

Thanks! I don't think the results mean anything over 300 hands but it sure is a nice confidence boost when starting.

Bad session.



When I wasn't getting sucked out on, I seemed to get it in with the second best hand. Red line was impressive. Just played bad in general.

I'll admit that the suckouts got to me today for the first time. I started making stupid plays because I got tilted. How amateur. Would still call this a downswing given my 'luck' but I'm making it worse on myself by compounding errors. I've gotten too lose and just need to tighten up some more I think.

post some stats , and the losing hands , should you have been in them pre, could you have got away from them post , did you overplay them etc.

Heya,

Im a poker Noobie but been playing for a few months and I've learnt my lesson with c-betting and triple barreling with AK when the flop don't hit. When I look at my HUD my AK's are big loss -46% equity so I was playing terribly with them. And they say it belongs to top 5% of hands :/.

When you say the player was 15/18 - can you elaborate on that? I'm still trying to get used to the short lingo and only started using the HUD so I'm still learning