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PLO, a scientific approach to improvement PLO, a scientific approach to improvement

07-02-2022 , 10:38 AM
Hi, I'm a long term poker recreational player, after more than 150k hands at microstakes I'm breakeven. My background is a scientist and I've worked for over 20 years in healthcare.



I do enjoy poker theory, reading books and watching videos. I have watched hundreds of videos across numerous training sites. I have recently been thinking about how to effectively improve given the wealth of knoweldge out there and found this to be somewhat lacking, even though there are numerous books, videos and articles on the subject, they don't really help, although they have helped me come up with my own theory for improvement. The most inspirational video I found was one from Fedor Holz explaining how most players are really lazy and just enjoy playing and they dont have solid fundamentals and they don't want to spend the time learning them. I agree with this as this is me!

I also looked into the theory of learning a complex tast and there are a couple of theories of note, 1 that you learn everything at once and over time it starts to make sense, and 2 that you need to break it down into smaller specific parts. So number 1 has made me a breakeven player so lets supplement that with breaking things down into smaller chunks, mastering those, in a measurable way and moving on.

So the science part.

I have a good enough sample of hands to show I am breakeven. I have played a mix of stakes and zoom and normal tables. I have done everything wrong and have leaks all over the place, including mental game leaks, tactical leaks etc.

I am going to maximise my learning and ability to implement the learning. I will ensure than I play without distractions, normal tables only (no zoom) and other things to generally maximise my winrate. So high volume grinding is not the goal here but maximum learning and maximum winrate. Having a full time job and other commitments will mean my time is limited but I'll be as organised as possible and form effective habits.

I will learn a new concept in depth every week, I will baseline my understanding with a solver in train mode before I start learning the new concept and then again at the end of the week. If I score less than 90%, I will repeat the week. Concepts will be pre and post flop and I'll go to the high volume spots first. I'd estimate my learning and playing will be for around 2 hours a day, but maybe more if I can get organised.

Tools at my disposal
PLO trainer
PT4
Coaching
Odds Oracle
Subscription to ROI (including PLO from the ground up)
Various books

I'll post at least 2 updates a week, one at the start of the week setting out the concept to be learned and my baseline solver score, then an update at the end of the week, with my learning outcomes and new score. I'll also periodically post graphs and maybe the odd hand to elucidate a specific point.

I'm interested to see how I get on
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-02-2022 , 10:49 AM
So my week 1 concept is going to be preflop, this may take more than 1 week but I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of preflop.

I'll watch some videos about preflop concepts and work on RFI across all positions, calling/3betting/folding EP vs CO, EP vs BU, CO vs BU, BU, vs BB and I'll also look at multi-way pots EP vs CO vs BB and MP vs BU vs BB.

I'll post my pre learning scores when I've completed them.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-02-2022 , 02:09 PM
Week one before any learning - baseline scores below

Results from my train sessions in PLO trainer

RFI
EP - 94%
MP - 92%
CO - 90%
BTN - 78%
SB - 90%

Calling/folding/3betting vs a raise
EP vs CO - 90%
EP vs BU - 86%
CO vs BU - 90%
BU vs VV - 70%

Multiway pots - calling/folding/3betting as the last to act
EP vs CO vs BU - 86%
MP vs BU vs BB - 92%

So some work to do but generally not too bad, raising as the button was the most interesting, I'm opening some I shouldnt and not opening others I should.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-09-2022 , 11:48 AM
Results of deliberate practice after week 1

RFI
EP - 94%
MP - 92%
CO - 94%
BTN - 94%
SB - 90%

Calling/folding/3betting vs a raise
EP vs CO - 90%
EP vs BU - 92%
CO vs BU - 90%
BU vs VV - 86%

Multiway pots - calling/folding/3betting as the last to act
EP vs CO vs BU - 98%
MP vs BU vs BB - 96%

So some good improvements, definately need to do more work on blind defence ranges, as this was an area I found most difficult.

I also did some work on standardising my bet sizes for different board textures.

So next week I'll focus on preflop 3/4 bet calling ranges
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-09-2022 , 11:49 AM


Results were not great for PLO50 so I'll stick to 25 for now until I've done more post flop work
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-09-2022 , 02:19 PM
So my scores before working on 3betting , testing myself on the solver, i.e. should i raise, call, fold vs the 3bet when im oop

EP vs MP = 80%
EP vs CO = 90%
EP vs BU = 78%

MP vs CO = 82%
MP vs BU = 80%

CO vs BU = 82%

So some deep work to further my understanding here. If I do well I will work in the IP raise/call/fold too but see how i get on, no rush
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-09-2022 , 06:00 PM
GTO is good to learn, but will not work at low stakes. Play fewer hands and 3 bet more for value than having people fold out preflop.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-16-2022 , 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jreven
GTO is good to learn, but will not work at low stakes. Play fewer hands and 3 bet more for value than having people fold out preflop.

Interesting that you would think that, I think it gives a really good solid foundation for your game. Only when you have a solid grasp of the fundamentals can you then knowingly deviate from a theoretically optimum approach, to a more exploitative approach. This is certainly what I do, especially with some of the more marginal plays.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-17-2022 , 04:22 PM
Results after learning, deep dives and deliberate practice, for reacting to 3bets oop, improvements all round. I also did some preflop work as per week 1, to embed the learning more. I've read revisiting learning every now and again is really good to solidify new pathways in your brain

EP vs MP = 90%
EP vs CO = 94%
EP vs BU = 90%

MP vs CO = 88%
MP vs BU = 88%

CO vs BU = 90%

I'll move onto 3betting IP next week for some deep learning and deliberate practice. I'll also revisit oop to solidify the learning.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-17-2022 , 04:51 PM
My pre learning IP 3betting scores from the solver

EP vs SB = 92%
EP vs BB = 90%
CU vs SB = 90%
CU vs BB = 88%
BU vs SB = 84%
BU vs BB = 82%

So some work to do, particularly from BU vs blinds so I'll focus on late position
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-23-2022 , 03:54 AM
After a week of focus on this area here are my test results

EP vs SB = 90%
EP vs BB = 96%
CU vs SB = 90%
CU vs BB = 90%
BU vs SB = 90%
BU vs BB = 88%

So some improvements, BU ranges I'm finding difficult, doesnt feel intuitive, e.g. calling some crappy Axxx hands vs something more boradway heavy. So I'll be doing more practice here.

As part of this process I've also been randomly repeating some of the learning from my earlier weeks to make sure its really embedded, Ill periodically do this so it stays in the memory.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-23-2022 , 04:16 PM
I'm moving onto post flop play. Preflop is improved but by no means finished and will have to be revisited to further embed

Post flop I'm starting with the low hanging fruit of C betting after raising in position. I'll use unpaired rainbow flops

My results currently on random generated flops are quite poor, this may take longer than a week to get good results, as I'll have to source and learn quite a bit of theory. There are also the other less common flop types to tackle, being out of position, leading, 3bet pots etc, so loads to learn on the flop.

EP vs BB = 62%
CO vs BB = 62%
BU vs BB = 66%
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-30-2022 , 10:31 AM
Hi
Enjoying the blog and your process.
Have you read 'Purposeful practice for poker' by Gareth James and Dr. Tricia Cardner? You seem to have a handle on the principles but it is an interesting read nonetheless.
All the best.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
07-30-2022 , 11:39 AM
hello friend,

Honestly, I'm fairly lazy. I've never really worked hard on anything.
So I admire the hard work you are putting in.

But one of the previous comments is correct.

Playing perfect GTO is far from optimal at low stakes.

I imagine first off, that having a balanced 3betting range at low
stakes is probably a bad idea, and 3bet bluffing is probably not
a strategy required vs weaker players.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-01-2022 , 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerterrorist
Hi
Enjoying the blog and your process.
Have you read 'Purposeful practice for poker' by Gareth James and Dr. Tricia Cardner? You seem to have a handle on the principles but it is an interesting read nonetheless.
All the best.
Hi yes I have actually , the first few chapters are great and reaffirm much of my thinking. Like most books its quite holdem focussed but the general principles are really interesting and evidence based
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-01-2022 , 04:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterlearner
hello friend,

Honestly, I'm fairly lazy. I've never really worked hard on anything.
So I admire the hard work you are putting in.

But one of the previous comments is correct.

Playing perfect GTO is far from optimal at low stakes.

I imagine first off, that having a balanced 3betting range at low
stakes is probably a bad idea, and 3bet bluffing is probably not
a strategy required vs weaker players.
Hi yes I agree completely with this. My thoughts however are, you need to know what a balanced range looks like before you can deviate from GTO and use an exploitative strategy. I certainly do deviate from GTO all the time, but in a conscious way. So for example a really tight 3better preflop, rather than call my marginal hands I can just fold them, or really passive player starts being super aggressive then I can fold the weaker portion of my range, or people with a weak check back range I can bluff at a much higher frequency.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-01-2022 , 05:02 AM
A quick update, this week I've been learning some in depth theory about Cbetting. There are some decent videos out there, a couple are below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9WEpA8Y09o&t=1s

This video is interesting as it shows how to filter things out to get a good understanding of ranges, one to watch a few times. I am always interested in the "how" so how do people use these types of tools to improve. This is a good example of this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcSDgh9bmig

I have also been working on mental game leaks, some of my biggest issues are mental game related, I've been watching a few videos on this and learning. Interesting to note most of the top players it seems have accessed mental game coaching. So I'll be implementing changes based on this, particularly around having a good routine, minimising distractions while playing, playing fewer tables, setting process goals and not outcome goals etc.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-05-2022 , 04:33 AM
Hey King of Kaos,

Found the blog when you linked it in the Mastermind discord. Created my own blog here as well. Seems like we have a similar approach to things. Altho you've got better results then me so far on the preflop trainings

Gonna be fun to follow ur progress!
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-06-2022 , 05:03 AM
Hi thanks for the comment, I'll have a look at your blog. Good luck
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-06-2022 , 05:09 AM
I've continued to focus on c betting in position this week and I'm feeling a bit more confident. I also went back and did some preflop work in the solver to keep that in my memory. This week I've also continued to work on mindset and developed a schedule so I can keep motivated to learn. I found I've slipped into a few bad habits playing too many tables so I've been playing less volume with more focus. The result is an interesting graph this week, although clearly I have ran well, I have been folding well and being more aggressive.

PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-06-2022 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kaos
I'm moving onto post flop play. Preflop is improved but by no means finished and will have to be revisited to further embed

Post flop I'm starting with the low hanging fruit of C betting after raising in position. I'll use unpaired rainbow flops

My results currently on random generated flops are quite poor, this may take longer than a week to get good results, as I'll have to source and learn quite a bit of theory. There are also the other less common flop types to tackle, being out of position, leading, 3bet pots etc, so loads to learn on the flop.

EP vs BB = 62%
CO vs BB = 62%
BU vs BB = 66%
I redid these tests with the solver and had similar results, so difficult to understand why the solver does things at times, such as single raised pot, BU vs BB, flop is Qs7d6c BB checks, we have AsKs5d5c. Seems like a check to me, dont really want to build a pot, but we have some nice cards that might help us, such as an AK,5 or spade, or J. We unblock all all cards on the flop plus J,T,8 do dont want to bet. Solver wants to bet though lol. More work to do!
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-15-2022 , 10:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kaos
BU vs BB, flop is Qs7d6c BB checks, we have AsKs5d5c.
Solver understands the probability of actually realizing the equity of this hand when checking back is extremely low. Even when we improve on an A/K turn, calling the probe is not an instant decision, as we can't even call most river barrels. On the flop, however, our hand has certain characteristics that are good for c-betting: we block Kings and strong AQ type hands, we also block straight draws with 55 as well as having future blockers on straight completing runouts. Additionally, we have a backdoor flushdraw/straight draw we can comfortably barrel.
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-22-2022 , 04:50 AM
Subbed!

Really inspiring study routine and approach you have.
I will definately use this as a guideline, as I am in a similar situation

Thanks for sharing and GL!
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-22-2022 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerSect
Solver understands the probability of actually realizing the equity of this hand when checking back is extremely low. Even when we improve on an A/K turn, calling the probe is not an instant decision, as we can't even call most river barrels. On the flop, however, our hand has certain characteristics that are good for c-betting: we block Kings and strong AQ type hands, we also block straight draws with 55 as well as having future blockers on straight completing runouts. Additionally, we have a backdoor flushdraw/straight draw we can comfortably barrel.
thanks for this input, I need to re-read this a few times I think so I can fully grasp it
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote
08-22-2022 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by C0C0L0C0
Subbed!

Really inspiring study routine and approach you have.
I will definately use this as a guideline, as I am in a similar situation

Thanks for sharing and GL!
thanks for the sub, good look on your journey
PLO, a scientific approach to improvement Quote

      
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