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PLO, a scientific approach to improvement PLO, a scientific approach to improvement

08-25-2022 , 04:59 AM
I've been on vacation so I revised some preflop work to get back into it. I've now been working on C-betting again as preflop raiser unpaired boards, my results are improving so thats good

Previous results
EP vs BB = 62%
CO vs BB = 62%
BU vs BB = 66%

Todays result
EP vs BB = 82%
CO vs BB = 76%
BU vs BB = 76%

I'll keep working on this or perhaps a related topic, such as a different board texture, or a leading range on unpaired boards. Unpaired board work might be better as they are so common.
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08-25-2022 , 05:10 AM


August has gone well so far, low volume because I had a vacation and I'm purposefully playing fewer tables to maximise my learning. I'm definately still making mistakes all the time but this is ok, all part of the learning process. I saw a recent Phil Galfond video where he talked about making mistakes every hour as this is normal human behaviour, so good to know and not get frustrated by this.

I really want to just play loads of volume though and not stck to the learning process lol, got to be disciplined
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09-04-2022 , 09:15 AM


August completed was a good month, lots of new things learned and good results. Low volume due to time away with family.

I'm still working on flop c betting and general flop play. I'm not really improving my results working with the solver, so I'll consume alot more theory this month, anything flop related to see if that helps.

I think I'll play more normal tables this month and see how that goes, games seemed pretty amazing.
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09-28-2022 , 11:21 AM
I've watched a couple of videos and had another go. I'm feeling alot more confident in my cbetting ability. I'd say the solver is saying I'm making about 2/3 big mistakes every 50 hands and the other "mistakes" are either very minor EV wise or are actually higher EV but the solver still says its a mistake. New scores below.

Initial results
EP vs BB = 62%
CO vs BB = 62%
BU vs BB = 66%

Previous result
EP vs BB = 82%
CO vs BB = 76%
BU vs BB = 76%

Todays result
EP vs BB = 80%
CO vs BB = 78%
BU vs BB = 70%
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09-28-2022 , 11:34 AM
September is pretty much done. I've been a slight loser pre-rakeback but postive overall.

As you can see I started off well and was playing fewer tables etc and then decided to try to achieve a rakeback goal and massively upped the volume, which basically made me play worse, so I consider it a bit of a mini experiment that proved I can't do huge volume whilst working a full time job plus other responsibilties so its definately quality over quantity going forward. I have also been reading the book "Mental Edge" which is interesting as it reads a bit like a management theory book, which I have read many of. I have however re-assed my goals as below based on the book, although probably not worded as perfectly as described but they will work for me.

Outcome Goal - To maximise my winrate in PLO
Process Goals
Play normal tables, max 3
Play short sessions e.g. 1hr, then shorter onces after a short break, 45 mins, 30 mins
Go to bed at 11pm
Maximise focus on each and every session
Play as a priority Friday, Saturday and Sunday
Review marked hands before a session
Review mental game improvement material/score self before/after each session

Outcome Goal 2 - To develop a deep understanding of optimal play in PLO
Process goals
Identify weekly areas of study
Daily solver drills - in area of study
1-2 hours of videos a week, with note taking and a focus on current area of study
Weekly recording of my own play plus a review of these the following week (midweek)
Update weekly this blog and identify a new area of study

So my new area of study is still Cbetting but a bit wider, so 3bet pots oop
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10-08-2022 , 07:03 AM
Quick update. I've been on with Outcome goal 1 and have generally stuck to that pretty well. Poker I've played over a 1000 hands so far this month, mainly 3 tabling. I read an interesting blog that basically said reg battling is pointless as your winrate is only going to be very low, so table selection is a priority.

Also I've been thinking about more medium deep dives and analsis of ones game. It seems the best way to do this is to review your database and see if you can spot any leaks. This isnt something I have ever really done before so I'll spend some time looking into what stats to look for and more importantly what are optimal stats for a solid winning player? The problem is most stats will be related to NLH but I'll see what I can find.
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10-29-2022 , 04:57 AM
A review of my goals

Outcome Goal - To maximise my winrate in PLO
Process Goals
Play normal tables, max 3 - Yes I've been mainly doing this
Play short sessions e.g. 1hr, then shorter onces after a short break, 45 mins, 30 mins - yes no long sessions and my late sessions are shorter than an hour generally.
Go to bed at 11pm - pretty much been sticking to this, I feel alot better for it, much more focus for a later session
Maximise focus on each and every session - trying my best
Play as a priority Friday, Saturday and Sunday - Yes!, these days the games are amazing, I look out for good higher stakes tables
Review marked hands before a session - hmm no i havent been doing this, I have been marking hands and reviewing but generally at random times
Review mental game improvement material/score self before/after each session - a bit but could be better

Outcome Goal 2 - To develop a deep understanding of optimal play in PLO
Process goals
Identify weekly areas of study - I am still really focussed on flop play, so many elements to it. I also have redone some preflop drills. Including blind defence.
Daily solver drills - in area of study - Most days I've been doing some drills of one kind or another
1-2 hours of videos a week, with note taking and a focus on current area of study - yes sort of, when i can find one, if not I'll look for a good video
Weekly recording of my own play plus a review of these the following week (midweek) - I did this once this month and found it fairly useful so I'll keep it up
Update weekly this blog and identify a new area of study - I'm trying to keep this updated

So my new area of study is still Cbetting but a bit wider, so 3bet pots oop
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10-29-2022 , 05:04 AM
I'm also readying Atomic Habits as I've slacked off in a few other areas, such as gym/running, worse diet. Also helps to get some better poker habits away from the table. Its a very good and interesting read so far.

So I think focus for the next week, will be more big blind defence, as I looked in my database and had a very poor winrate in that position, way worse than optimal, so more work here and drills, this would make a dramatic change in my winrate. The problem has been not 3betting enough and overcalling too much, especially multiway. Even the amazing pot odds you can get dont justify the overcall with weaker hands howeve tempting it is.

I've also been thinking about stabbing when IP the preflop raiser checks, havent really seen any theorteitcal material on this so I'll look into some solver work, maybe on a few specific flop textures.

I know I'm somewhat neglecting turn and river play but I think most of my issues are now on the flop with some preflop still to work on so I'll just stick there for now.
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10-31-2022 , 07:53 AM


October completed some negative variance in the middle and I tried to use it as an opportunity to improve my mental game and how to deal with variance. Got through that and finished ok. A positive month is always a good month for me.

I played mainly normal tables and didnt try to meet any rakeback target which helped
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10-31-2022 , 08:05 AM
what site do you play on?
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11-05-2022 , 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by preki
what site do you play on?
Hi I only play on Stars at the minute as the rake seems the lowest for small stakes PLO. Over the years I've played on many sites but back with Stars at the minute
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11-05-2022 , 05:45 AM
Funny start to the month, in that I'm running way above EV for the first thousand or so hands. I keep winning flips, so in reality I should be breakeven. I have noticed that there are different types of variance, sometimes its not always quantifiable eg one week I lost with quads over quads twice and then a straight flush over quads in the space of a few days, or just just never hit the flop or you run good in your flips, or you get some suck outs, or you cooler people.

The way to reduce your varaince is to maximise your theoretical winrate, so if people get it in with 0% (or very low) equity then they can't suck out lol.

I've been mixing in some PLO100 when the games look good as my bank roll continues to grow, definately not rolled for it but aggressive shots are a must to beat the rake.

I'll continue to work on my flop play and blind defence next week and I'm looking out for black Friday deals. Can''t decide whether to go for a PLO Mastermind subscription or maybe PLO puzzle on runitonce. Maybe I'll get both if theres good deals to be had?

And I need to go to bed early. I could only manage a very short session last night as I was too tired after a hard week at work. Good that I realised this and quit but a pity as the games as always were good.
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11-14-2022 , 07:04 AM
I'm leaning towards PLO puzzle as I struggle with flop play in particular, solver wise I'm probably at about 80% accuracy from most positions when testing flop play, but sometimes the EV mistakes seem high, say 0.1-.2 plus and I dont always understand why, so more help here would be good. I'm not too fussed when I get things wrong if they are a marginal error, so 0.01 or even when solver says its an error but its a more +EV play.

This month is still going well, still running above EV so I'll just continue to do what I'm doing. I was busy with work last week so not as much study as I'd have liked. Hopefully the run good continues, feeling more confident at 100plo when I mix it in.



Finished Atomic Habits which is a good book and will hopefully help me develop improved study habits in particular. One area I struggle with is hand history reviews, I forget to mark hands for review and then find it hard to motivate myself to actually do a review. I guess other work could make them not needed, eg recording my sessions and reviewing those, which may be a better option.
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12-01-2022 , 09:11 AM
Results for November

So a pretty good month, I ran really well at the beginning, took a shot at plo100, didnt run well, moved back down. I also made a withdrawal to subsribe to PLO Mastermind for the black Friday deal. I'm working through the flop section, which is huge, so I'll mix in that with some solver work. I've been practicing A high flops BU vs BB, with me as BU. I can usually score about 60-80% accuracy so will work on that. I think I'm ok with the principles of flop c betting but IP is very difficult, especially the air portion of your range.

I'm trying to incorporate a new habit, which is a quick preflop solver blast before you start a session, which should help me develop the habit and will also reinforce good preflop play.

So plan for December is to continue to work on my C betting work and my preflop blast before a session. If all goes well maybe more aggro shots at PLO100

My PLO50 play was very solid this month so thats good feel very comfortable at that stake now
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12-01-2022 , 02:26 PM
You process and approach to this is inspiring.

Looking forward to how you progress.

Well done so far.
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12-27-2022 , 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by robin.bjerke
You process and approach to this is inspiring.

Looking forward to how you progress.

Well done so far.
thanks for the kind words.
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12-27-2022 , 05:51 AM
December is finished now for me, it was a bit of a weird month I was pretty sick for a few weeks so could not play or study. I ran badly for most of the month, managed to grind it back and then played 2 sessions that took me even deeper into the hole.

Games were good though.

I did manage to increase my understanding of cbetting so that was good, I can score about 75-80% in the solver now so I'll carry on working through the PLO Mastermind content and keep practicing.

I also now add in a bit of preflop solver practice before each session which is also helping although generally I score really well, 90%+.

So plan for rest 2023 is to improve my sleep schedule, get back into the gym/running now my sickness has gone and carry on the learning process.

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01-07-2023 , 06:06 AM
January started ok, but then had a very big downswing, couldnt win any hand with 50-80% equity, 3bet with AAxx and get several callers and the flop is 8TJ, call a 3bet with a rundown and the flop is A59 or 228, set over set etc etc.

So how should one view this? I think the best way is to realise, we still have lots to learn so more study, its a test of our mental game - can we continue to trust the process of learning theory, using solvers, good habits etc without playing really badly?

So actions taken. - Moved down in stakes where my edge is higher and I can rebuild.
More study, I feel even more motivated to study and I'm enjoying some of the PLO Mastermind content
Getting into good routines, e.g. quick solver preflop session before playing.

So still feeling positive about things but these things happen in PLO.

The one thing I'm not going to do is take a break, I dont feel like I need to, I'm not stressed about it, this is just my side hussle and I dont need the bank roll.

I do need more sleep though, had to miss the odd session because of feeling too sleepy
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01-15-2023 , 08:45 AM
I havent made a dramatic come back, but the downswing has sort of stopped. Had a few winning sessions and been doing lots of learning from PLO Mastermind and the solver. So definately understand some bits better. My preflop game is even better and I continue to give the solver a quick blast before every session.

Theory wise I'm still working on flop play, so much to learn here I suspect I'll spend a big chunk of it on this, so I'll just work through spots.

I should make the 40% rakeback goal on stars this month so that will help with this months losses, hopefully get a bit of an upswing too

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01-16-2023 , 09:42 AM
I like your study approach, good luck with your journey!
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01-21-2023 , 06:09 AM
I'm not playing great this month, but hopefully turned a corner, i think the mini-downswing made me play somewhat bad, found myself being a bit stationy and a bit gambly. So no more PLO100 for now, and next time i shot take hopefully run better than this.



So back to PLO25 mainly and if games are good I'm mix in a few plo50 games. Need to win a few hundred dollars more before reasonably rolled for that game.

On track for 40% rakeback too so should be ok for Feb
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01-21-2023 , 11:36 AM
Keep up the hard work off the felt, it will pay off.

I have a small study group on Discord. Pros and semi-pros mostly playing 100-500PLO. I keep it small and kick inactive players. If you are interested, send me a DM.

Good luck!
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02-06-2023 , 05:02 AM


January finished, I ran badly at 100plo and then played somewhat bad after moving down, but I managed to get some good learning in and stick to my habit of a quick solver session before each session.

I think I'm too loose preflop even though I am good with the solver, so I need to fold more marginal hands where players are just too loose, especially with higher rake etc.

So I'll work on that this month as well as continuing looking at flop play.

I probably need to review more hands too so I'll try fit some of that in.
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02-11-2023 , 06:08 AM
Quick update.

I feel like I've been playing not very well for the last few months. I'm still learning alot of theory and doing my regular solver drills.

So more mental game issues, playing too loose, getting annoyed, not playing in a way where I'm maximising my concentration, playing tired etc. I guess I've slipped back into some bad habits without realising so I'll be addressing these and getting back to what I was doing a few months ago.

Pretty breakeven so far after a few thousand hands but had a few decent sessions last few, where I felt I was making better decisions so onwards and upwards
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02-25-2023 , 05:38 AM
Feeling a bit better about my game and approach, I now realise I definately let the mental side slip as I concentrated on improving my technical skills, so its ok if you check back an appropriate hand on the flop but its no good if you then call down massive bets when you are clearly beat or start to open trashy hands.




Positive week in terms of winning so far but my all in EV is negative. I got in some weird spots where I've been getting rivered by loose passives, draws hit and they bomb it and i have to fold. And a few instances of extremely aggressive players 90/60 type players and I've had say a set and an OESD, all the money goes in and I was behind vs the made straight and end up board pairing or similar type situations where villian is super wide but just happens to be top of their range. So I would argue I'm not running that hot lol.

I'm making sure I do the right things from a mental game point of view, technical wise I continue to study, watch videos, practice with the solver so I'm quite happy with my game and understanding of it but mental game needs to be kept on top of.
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