[25/01/2015 11:33:37] Jakub Obarzanek: Does any1 have the text about cbetting that pleno wrote back in the days?
[25/01/2015 11:47:57] neytpoh: One of the biggest mistakes I see in online poker is to do with flop cbetting. Regular players have a very big leak of cbetting too much, cbetting too little, folding to too many cbets or calling too many cbets. In this article we will cover cbetting on flops with further streets in mind and try to work out what we should do and when we should do it.

The Gap Concept introduced in the Harrington and Slansky era stated that a player needs a better hand to play against someone who has already opened (or raised) the betting than he would need to open himself. The gap concept reflects that players prefer to avoid confrontations with other players who have already indicated strength, and that calling only has one way to win (by having the best hand), whereas opening may also win immediately if your opponent(s) fold.

I have my modern day slant on a Gap Concept and use it very often both in position and out of position when deciding to make a decision whether to continuation bet or not.

JTs, 99, KQ, 98s, QJ. These are all hands you would expect an opponent to call you with pre flop, either broadway cards or perhaps "decent" suited connectors. Of course you will get called by hands such as 55 sometimes, but generally with tight players you cannot always guarantee it. Because of the grouping of a likely calling range from our opponent it means that we should react differently on different board textures. I use a modern day Pleno1 2014 GAP concept, to avoid betting without equity on boards that contain two cards between 8-Q.

For example lets look at 2 different board textures.

Example 1) We raise pre flop with 1) AK, 2) 9Ts and 3) 55

The flop comes down 842. We are confident betting AK both for protection and because its likely our opponent doesnt have a great hand and if he does call we can potentially get him to fold later. With 9T we will often have a back door flush draw but at worst we will have 2 overcards and a backdoor straight, nevermind the possibility of being able to represent turn cards such as Kings, Queens and Aces. With 55 this flop is about as good as it gets without flopping a set and we can comfortably go and make a bet on the flop.

Example 2) We raise pre flop with 1) AK, 2) 9Ts and 3) 55

The flop comes down 84Q. We are now not confident betting AK, if we get called and a King comes we potentailly have some reverse implied odds, same with an ace. So now we are not comofrtable progressing in the hand if we improve to a pair. If a turn card comes a 5,2,3,6 it is not really going to scare our opponent off hands such as KQ and QJ and if the turn card comes a Ten or Jack then it hits our opponents perceived range more than our own. With 55 we have hit a terrible board and now cannot profitably continuation bet.

So all I did in these 2 example was change one card. We went from 842 and were able to cbet our entire range almost and then changed a 2 for a Queen and now we cant bet at all. We have logically worked out why but this is not something our opponents are doing. Often, especially when mass tabling, our opponets will be just auto cbetting with a "one and done" strategy. This is fine on the 842 boards, but when you are not self aware enough about different textures of boards this will become a huge leak and it will be extremely difficult to make those cbets "plus ev".

Remember, whenever you put a cent into the pot it has to be because you think what you are doing is going to show a profit. Dont get into lazy habits, dont think "This should be fine", dont take the easy option. Every time you put money into a pot in the future ask yourself how am I going to make money by making this decision?

Poker is all about making lots and lots of very small yet accurate decisions. Another one that I see people struggling to adjust to is failing to recognise which boards to triple barrel as a bluff.

One board I think even very good regulars fail to exploit is triple broadway boards such as AQJ, AKJ, AQT etc. Often a regular will decide to raise pre flop with a hand such as QJ. The board will come down AQT and they will be in "auto cbet mode" now dont get me wrong, I think checking back with a hand that will only get called by worse hands such as Ax and already has significant showdown value couple with the chance of improving to the nuts is definitely the best choice, but lets pretend you are one of these auto cbettors, which in certain games may not be terrible.

So we decide to bet and our opponent calls. People are generally
[25/01/2015 11:48:38] Jakub Obarzanek: thx
[25/01/2015 11:48:49] neytpoh: So we decide to bet and our opponent calls. People are generally face up in poker. Lets discount some hands that can call multiple barrels in this spot.

AA - Likely will raise pre flop
AK- Likely will raise pre flop_
QQ- Likely will raise pre flop
KJ - Likely will raise the flop
TT- Could raise pre flop or on the flop

Now lets look at OUR range. What COULD our opponent put us on?

AQ? Absolutely, we raised pre flop it is in our range
AA? Absolutely, we raised pre flop it is in our range
QQ? Absolutely, we raised pre flop it is in our range
KJ? Absolutely, we raised pre flop it is in our range
TT? Absolutely, we raised pre flop it is in our range

Now lets think of some different ways this board could run out. Very possible board run outs would be those such as.

AQT42
AQT99
AQT84
AQT65

On all of these run outs our opponent is likely to have hands such as KQ, AJ, A9, QJ, hands that may be marginally ahead of us but will very likely not be able to withstand a triple barrel, as if somebody who raises pre flop, bets the flop, bets the turn and bets the river big I will be pretty much never calling the river with a hand less than two pair and as we have established previously its incredibly difficult for our opponent to have a hand better than two pair, or even two pair for that matter.

The moral of the story is to THINK before acting. Dont be "that" guy who automatically cbets whenever it is checked to him. Think of your range, think of your opponents range and think how the board texture effects both of you. Now think about your plan for the rest of the hand and how you will now have a very solid strategy to make money whilst putting a chip into the pot.
[25/01/2015 11:48:53] Jakub Obarzanek: last sentence looks like unfinshed
[25/01/2015 11:48:56] Jakub Obarzanek: oh OK
[25/01/2015 11:49:06] neytpoh: =) u a welcome
[26/01/2015 20:38:52] cristianrjx: did anyone hear smthg form patrick?
[26/01/2015 22:18:02] inthemix: no
[26/01/2015 22:18:16] inthemix: also didnt read anything new
[26/01/2015 22:18:30] manu: nope
[26/01/2015 22:19:03] manu: he just ask 4 his hud. but didnt respond after i send it to him
[31/01/2015 16:50:51] Mike: hey guys, anybody has stat "CB flop in 4Bet pot" in PT4?
Thanks a lot
[31/01/2015 20:17:52] manu: i got CB in 3bet+
[31/01/2015 20:18:02] manu: but its very easy to build
[01/02/2015 17:56:08] Matthias Schlosarek: has any1 a macbook pro and knows if pt4 hud works on zoom?
[02/02/2015 06:03:53] Zac: hud does not work for zoom on any mac
[02/02/2015 06:04:27] Zac: unless you run windows on it
[02/02/2015 16:34:20] Matthias Schlosarek: Okay
[02/02/2015 16:36:02] manu: Hi mike whats with "CB flop in 4Bet pot" in PT4?" do u want to have it ?
[04/02/2015 23:33:46] cristianrjx: if anyone is interested in a NC package for MTTs, a friend and HM coworker made one
[04/02/2015 23:33:52] cristianrjx: This message has been removed.
[04/02/2015 23:34:12] cristianrjx: http://www.mtthud.com/
[05/02/2015 06:51:15] avi//EtniX: is sbdy Needs seating skripts add me
[05/02/2015 09:13:14] CM CZ - Lukas Machala: CM CZ - Lukas Machala has left the conversation
[05/02/2015 09:26:42] neytpoh: neytpoh has left the conversation
[05/02/2015 11:44:17] Tino Vanderlaan: Tino Vanderlaan has left the conversation
[07/02/2015 10:20:14] Matthias Schlosarek: which seating skript?
[07/02/2015 11:45:40] Freddy: can add me too ^^
[02/03/2015 18:14:35] cristianrjx: what about videos etc.
patrick, you promised so much stuff but you haven't delivered anything for a long time
[02/03/2015 18:15:16] cristianrjx: don't come up with excuses and new promises, get done what you promised and that's it
[02/03/2015 18:20:22] cristianrjx: 2 days for an answer should be fine, if not I will post in some forums again
[02/03/2015 18:24:51] cristianrjx: if you won't produce what was promised, you have to refund me part of the price I paid, I didn't get what I paid for.
[02/03/2015 18:25:53] cristianrjx: I'm sure I'm not the only unhappy one here, some others left the group already, who is still here maybe has still some hope smthg will happen.
[02/03/2015 20:45:12] Jakub Obarzanek: +1
[02/03/2015 20:45:45] Jakub Obarzanek: didn't we have a seminar/sweat session planned?
[02/03/2015 21:21:55] cristianrjx: last thing I remeber was a planned 4 hr session, then it was divided in 2 parts.
[02/03/2015 21:22:41] cristianrjx: part 2 never happened and part 1 was recorded, but only 1 hr
[03/03/2015 12:03:24] manu: what about the seminar in the groupheadline ?!
[06/03/2015 01:31:26] cristianrjx: posted on ps and 2+2
[06/03/2015 02:58:25] cristianrjx: yeah call me a scammer
[06/03/2015 05:05:06] cristianrjx: cristianrjx set topic to “http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ount=17”
[06/03/2015 09:07:29] VIP -Max- Dublimax: Haven't read the whole thread but I think it's a bit over the top. It has been more than a year. He has done a lot of stuff. Maybe not everything je said he would but the value is there imo.
[06/03/2015 09:08:57] VIP -Max- Dublimax: For couple hundreds bucks I think you guys got plenty
[06/03/2015 09:10:58] VIP -Max- Dublimax: Patrick loves the game so much and he sometimes gets a bit excited so he wants to do so much. In this case that's what happened but you can't go line by line and checker hat everything le thing has been delivered.
[06/03/2015 09:11:41] VIP -Max- Dublimax: He delivered a lot for the price
[06/03/2015 09:12:33] VIP -Max- Dublimax: Step back a little bit and see what you got for couple of hundred quid