Can you post all your sessions? Even the 2/5, it's very entertaining.

cool thread

can you explain your thorugh process here? how do you proceed on blank turns? this is not a hand i would include in my bet/c range when betting into 3 other players.

Yes. Obv the A is much scarier than an A but my perceived range from V is AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, and flush draws weighted to AXx hands so an Ace on river smacks dead in the middle of my floating range.

I didn't want this to turn into a super blog. So I'm probably just going to stick to posting the big games and on occasion I will post a super sick spot I witness or am a part of in the 2/5nl or 2/5nl deep stack game I play. IN fact, I'll probably start posting more mistakes, I make 1 - 3 mistakes per session. My mistakes are probably more interesting because I really REALLY push the edges in my 2/5nl and 2/5nl deep stack games which is why my winrate is noticeably higher than the other regs in this area.

You can easily beat the game playing a snug style of TAG, but in order to just destroy the game you've got to push the edges a bit and I feel I'm pretty good at that. You just have to be willing to look foolish when you push the edge on occasion and run into the nuts or you fall through the ice of super thin value bet and get called by a hand that is one notch higher than yours...

My goal is to eventually get the 10/25nl game dialed in as well as I have the 2/5nl game dialed in. I'm thinking I need about a couple of months worth of experience at 10/25nl to where I can push the edges in that game like I do 2/5nl. Right now, I'm essentially a competent beginner still learning the ropes as far as the 10/25nl is concerned...

In big games vs competent villains, you have to "defend" more or else you turn all your hands face up and become extremely exploitable. You also have to ask yourself, "What line am I taking? How does this line look from an outside observer thus far? How will the line look if I take action X, or Y or Z?"

In the case of V c/r'ing me. He can be doing that as a semi-bluff FD or with a pocket pair or Jx that knows I'm going to c-bet near 100% of the time. So if I check/call flop and check turn what does that say about the strength of my hand. If I had QQ, KK, AA would I ever c/c flop and then check a blank turn? No. So, my plan was to put villain to the test and fire out on most turns. Ideally, I want a turn card that gives me some more equity. Any club, 8, 9, T, K, Q, or Ace so basically about half the deck enables me to continue an aggressive line. When I lead into villain for a decent sized bet, we are approaching SPR < 2 territory in which we are getting pot committed to play for stacks. Its rare to want to play for stacks with a marginal hand. I mean, if villain has 88, 99, TT, QJ, KJ type hands is he really going to be itching to stack off 200bb with them? Well, if he raises me on turn then that is exactly what he would be committing to. So, my turn lead puts him under even more pressure. Likewise, if he just calls me on turn after he raised me on flop then he is conceding the hand and allowing me to retake the initiative.

However, if I decide to take the above aggressive line, I can't pussy out and show any weakness. So, when I call his flop raise I'm basically committing to triple barrel unless V throws in another big raise on turn into my turn lead, then he would have turned the tables on me and put the pressure back on me and I would probably have to fold unless the turn was a dream card for me like the K giving me an OESD plus 2nd nut flush draw. Then I would be looking heavily for tells and if I pick up that he isn't thrilled to play for stacks then I put him all in...

Basically, in this game, villains don't roll over as easily as they do in the LLSNL games. They are going to expect your c-bet and push back a lot which means that you have to be willing to push back against their push back since the ability to win through aggression is 100% vital to beating higher limit games.

Its a California thing. For some reason, many casinos in the State have purposefully decided to use their own color convention. When I first came here from NM and Vegas casinos it threw me off as just plain WRONG!!!! I mean, come on, everyone knows red chips are $5 and green chips are $25 and black chips are $100... Sure, you can play around with the color scheme of the other chips but those 3 color schemes are almost universal...

Not so in many CA casinos...

OMG Soooooooo THIS.

I have left on my button b4. When I rack up I leave. Never played out of the rack. Never play "one last hand." My last hand is determined by my time limit or my preemptive decision to cut a session short.

Also, original NicePeter fan boy here.

If you like the rap battles you'll like "street music" and "theater of life". Both awesome vids/channels on YouTube.

Def theater of life that ish is hilarious.

Yeah the insta quit is very smart IMO. Because obviously you are headed towards UTG so each subsequent hand puts you in an incrementally worse position, probably leading towards a -EV position, especially if you are in a state of mind where you are not playing your A game.

OTOH, you could just look at every hand up until your blinds and if you get AA rip it in pre and win some blinds and fold everything else.

SUBBED! Great thread, thank you for taking the time to give such detailed insight into that next-level play that we all dream about. Reading your posts I now can see how above average winrates are possible. Being able to recognize and adapt to table dynamics/perceived image etc creates so many opportunities that would otherwise not exist.

A recurring theme that I've noticed in all of your lines is a total lack of any shred of fear. Even though you are playing at considerably higher stakes you don't seem to let the dollar amounts involved in your "feel plays" deter you from applying maximum pressure when the situation warrants it. Well done.

Whatever you do, please don't forget about us at LLSNL!

May the rungood be with you...

One of the most interesting things you said was about each level plays differently ($1/2, $1/3, $2/5, etc.) If you ever get some time, I would love to see a breakdown of that.

I am also looking forward to some tournament updates. I would love to hear your though process in those.

Biggest problem here is that your perceived range is extremly strong when you cbet the flop.
you say " I'm going to c-bet near 100% of the time. " Doenst seen too great to me, i highly doubt cbetting 100% of your range into 3 people can ever show a profit on this board.
Also villain is not c/r you, he is raising you IP which makes the hand a lot tougher to play on most turns.

I think the turn is fine as played i just dont really like your flop play and your reasoning.

Very interesting read here. I can only imagine the rush I would feel sitting down at these stakes!

Dgi, approximately how old are you and how long have you been grinding 2/5 for a living?

Hope your shots keep going well and wishing you some more run good!

Thanks. Part of that comes from just focusing on +EV plays and not worrying about whether I win or lose. Do that enough times and eventually it becomes part of you...

The main difference between 1/2nl and 1/3nl vs 2/5nl is the mistakes your villains make.

In 1/2nl and 1/3nl, your villains are usually going to be more passive. A lot of limpy cally trappy type of play and mistakes. Also, a higher percentage of players will be level 1 players.

At 2/5nl, your villains are usually going to be more aggressive, so their mistakes will tend to be overplaying TPGK type hands, draws, and making tons of bets that only better hands can call...

Another thing worth noting is that in 1/2nl and 1/3nl those are often the lowest NL in the room, so the player pool will have the biggest skill deltas between players. That is, you will have people at the table who have played for years and people at the table who have only play a few times. You will have the occasional winning player and even a semi-pro as well as have players that are horrendous losers and giant fish...

At 2/5nl, you tend to get players that have more experience, but for the most part their experience has only served to reinforce bad play.

At 5/10nl, you are now talking about players that for the most part can beat 2/5nl so they are ABC competent. No more "easy" money in the way of horrendously bad mistakes...

Anyways, I'm starting to write a book on this subject but hopefully you can kinda see/understand the differences...

Yeah, when I said c/r I meant raise . As far as the rest... All I can say is that you can't really evaluate a play out of context with someone's overall game.

My style is such that I'm going to c-bet a very high percentage of the time regardless of board textures when I'm playing at this level. The villains at this level know I'm going to c-bet a high percentage of the time and thus they will adjust and then I will have to adjust to their adjustments...

Again, at this level villains aren't going to roll over for me simply because I c-bet nor are villains going to automatically assign me a nut range based on a bet. They are going to put me to the test and it is only AFTER I respond to their aggression that they will definitively put me on a hand.

But I will say that there are multiple ways to play and beat the game and I'm not saying mine is the only way...


However, I can't make the turn play without the flop play. I can't rep a strong hand without showing strength, otherwise, my line isn't going to be credible and I will get hero called down or worse, I will get raised back.

I'm in my 30s, been doing this for past couple of years.

SESSION # 4, +$3,200

So, have been running good and grinding hard and thought I would play one last big game before I headed off to Vegas. So, I arrive at Matrix and look at the 10/25nl list and I see that 3 of the best 10/25nl players are going to be in the same table. These were the same people that made my 2nd session about as pleasant as pissing razor blades. I remembered the below quote from Sun Tzu



So, I decided to do a change in Venue and try the big game at Bay 101, 5/10nl $25k max buy-in.

I bought into the game for $2,500 and right off the bat I notice that the game feels so much softer than the 10/25nl game. I felt like Goku fighting at 1G (gravity) after having spent an entire cycle training at 100G (gravity).

There were 3 players at the table that I considered to be equivalent in skill to me however today I felt like their hands were face up. I played some of my best poker unfortunately, I overthought a couple of spots and folded the winning hand. One hand in particular was a clear mistake (which we will get to).

First, my image at the table is semi-nit. Most of the players have played with me in the 2/5nl Deep Stack game and know I'm a winning reg. There are 2 obvious marks at the table and 2 aggro players that over value their hands. So this is a great table. There is one very good LAG at the table who thinks he is better than me and doesn't respect my game. He sees me as a semi-nit ABC TAG that he can bully. Unfortunately, after today, I don't think he will see me that way again. I will call this player Z-LAG

First interesting hand I get K5 on BTN, 5-way limp fest. Eff stacks $3k, and this game has a $20 open so its really a 10/20nl game (don't know why they call it 5/10).

Flop(100) 9 5 4
Z-LAG chks from MP, others chk, action gets to me, I bet $80 from BTN,
Z-LAG c/r to $270, everyone folds, I call.

This is an obvious bluff, a c/r on this dry a board is a bully move and I know he thinks of me as a semi-nit that will fold. He is also used to running over the table.

Turn(640) A
Z-LAG chks, I bet $500, he folds and accidentally exposes his cards, he had 87o.

I had been getting the better of him all day in hands like this and then I tilted him with the following hand.

I was in LP with 88, he raised $50 preflop, 2 callers, I call, 4-way action.

Flop(200) Q 9 4
he bets $100, folds to me, I call, heads up.

Turn(400) 3
he bets $300, I call

River(1,000) A
he bets $800, I tank call. He shows JTo, my 88 is good

The thing about LAGs and good LAGs (he is a good player and crushes the game) is that they count on scary boards and scare cards. Given that he perceives me as a semi-nit (at least prior to this hand ) he knows that I'm going to be wary of the hearts and likely that I'm not going to be drawing since semi-nits don't draw. He's also used to players laying down to him in this spot putting him on a flush or an Ace. In my case, I know his range is wide and that my 88 are going to be ahead of his range majority of the time even with overcards since his raising range is 64s+, 65s+, T9+, T8+, 55+

This set up a huge hand a few orbits later

I limp from MP with 42 5-way limp fest pot.

flop(100) 6 5 3 BINK
chks to aggro player who bets $70 from CO, Z-LAG calls from BB, I call from MP

Turn(310) A
Z-LAG chks, I chk, Aggro bets $140, Z-LAG raises to $325, I call, Aggro folds

River(960) Q
Z-LAG bets $1,200, we tank call, he shows 87

Against a hyper aggressive player, raising turn loses value. He has so much air in his range that its just better to call him down in these spots.

Anyways, not to make it sound like I walk on water, I made a huge mistake in the session I want to discuss.

First off, Villain in this hand had gotten five pocket AA in the last hour and they held up each time. He also had 2 full houses and basically was just on a sick card heater over the last 2 hours. He went from being stuck $4k and down to $700 up to $5k.

We are in the BB with T9o, 5-way limp fest, I chk my option. Eff stacks $5k I cover

Flop(100) 8 7 6
I lead out $40, V raises to $120, everyone folds, I call.

Turn(340) 6
I lead out $240, V raises me to $540, I call.

River(1420) 9
I chk, V bets $600, I open fold T9o, V smiles and shows me a 5.

This was by far my biggest mistake of the day. Part of my mistake was just the image I had of V, he had literally just been smashing all the boards and I thought for sure he had a fullhouse when he raised me on turn. Which then begs the question "If I thought he had a FH why did I call the turn raise..."

Not to make excuses, but I was getting pretty tired and at this point I was on my C-game. I didn't think he'd value bet river with bottom straight on a paired board vs the one player at the table that can bust him

I also thought V was more ABC competent than he really was. Anyways, that was just a horrendous mistake.

Anyways, I bought in for $2,500 and cashed out $5,600-ish. It should have been about $1.5k more but I made perhaps my dumbest bluff attempt due to being super tired and burned out. Long story short, V showed strength on flop and turn and I just spazzed and put him all in without any real thought whatsoever and he snap called with an obvious monster. Its really not worth posting details, that is how bad the situation was. I was on my F-Game at this point and just could barely focus. After that bluff attempt I just racked up and left. So my $5,600 really should be $7,100 .

I've just been solid grinding way too many days, basically, I've played the last two weeks straight 8 - 12 hrs per day. Today, towards the end of my session, the fatigue really just hit me all at once, starting with the mistake I posted and culminating with my ******ed bluff attempt.

So, I'm going to Vegas tomorrow and I will not play any poker. I'm going to relax, rest, take in a show, and read. Then Friday, I will probably take in another show and relax and then hit Event #6 completely refreshed.

Anyways, here is my chip pic


and here is what it looks like after I cashed out


the $10 chip is what I grease the board with on my way out (I always tip the board, very +EV)

Screen saver

Almost sounds like you caught the LAG on an off day by running into his bluffing range. The story could have easily been rewritten where you got run off the table making hero calls...

Not really. LAGs have so much air in their range that hero calling them is going to be more profitable in the long run and that is what poker is all about right? Making the +EV play.

I mean, if someone is bluffing an insane amount of the time, 60%, 70%, 80% of the time is it really an "off day" when you call them down???

Sure, when he has a real hand I'm going to pay him off. Fine, I accept that. But on the flip side, I stand to make more money from him longterm by calling him down whenever I have any hand that has value.

Poker is kinda like paper-rock-scissors. And the way you beat a LAG/maniac type of player is to calling station them with any hand that has value.

its easier said than done. Whenever he is in a hand, he is really good about applying pressure to the point where his villains often say, "I know you are bluffing, but I'm going to wait for a better spot" and then they fold.

And that is exactly what good LAGs count on.

He is a good player and I expect that in our next session he will adjust to me and lower his bluffing frequency vs me.

You wouldn't raise the flop if you had a vulnerable hand vs a LAG? Calling down with middle/bottom pair is scary, especially when overcards come or cards you know complete draws. I remember losing a 150BB stack with TPTK to a LAG who decided to go spazzy in position with an underpair, which hit a set on the turn - the deeper you get, the scarier it becomes to call them down.

these last couple posts on how to beat a LAG is just pure gold. ty so much and keep up the good work!

Then you are just going to get the LAG to fold his air when he would have continued to double and/or triple barrel with it. You are being results orientated by describing the one time a LAG hit a set on you.

Very interesting dgi, thanks for sharing this with us

This is exactly what LAGs count on and exactly why good LAGs own most ABC type players. Whenever the ABC player wakes up with a real hand, they 3-bet the LAG out of the hand preflop or they blow the LAG off the hand post flop. The ABC player open raises 7bb, the LAG calls, flop (14bb) ABC blasts the pot for 20bb because he's afraid of the LAG and he gets the LAG to fold his gut shot and then the ABC player pats himself on the back for "not losing" to the LAG. Meanwhile, the LAG smiles to himself happy to surrender that meager pot when its so obvious Mr. ABC was monster but on the flip side, if the LAG flopped his set, two pair, straight, etc he would have stacked ABC for 100bb+. Also, had the ABC player let the LAG barrel off each street ABC would have made an easy 50bb in profit.

So basically, the LAG gets the best of both worlds. His style of play enables him to run a ton of successful bluffs and conversely his style of play causes players to turn their hands face up against him and blow him out of pots in which his villains are monster just because they are afraid of the LAG...

+1, Exactly.

18 months ago I ran into this super LAGy/maniac who I just could not beat. I mean, he was a super LAG/maniac and he seemed as slippery as a fish swimming in vegetable oil. Then one day I was at the table with him and a super calling station. And I remember how the super calling station just owned the LAGs ass that day. The station called him down 100% on all board even when the station had Ace and King high. He was a Level 0 player and just called called called and I remember how frustrating that was to the LAG. LAG took everyone's money and basically funneled it straight to the calling station.

It was the sickest thing I ever saw and then a lightbulb clicked on in my head. A lot of really good LAG/maniacs have a flaw... and that is they only have one gear. They can't "not" play LAG. The thought of tightening up for any significant period of time (say like more than 15 minutes) would be like asking them to hold their breath while under water for 15 minutes. They just can't do it.

Anyways, that is when it really dawned on me how you beat LAGs. You let them hang themselves when you have ANY hand that has value. Period. Doesn't matter how scary the board gets, you call them down. And your situation only gets better once you learn how to spot their sizing tells.

Noob question:

"tip the board"? You mean the floor? Seaters? (My room is kinda ho-dunk fwiw...floors (managers) don't even know the rules sometimes. Seaters (podium chicks) are cool though)

Not so noob question:

How do you get over a poorly played hand? I mean I learn from and review mistakes all the time, but I made a ridiculously bad call this past weekend (non-nut flush paired board). Like it is driving me nuts how bad this call was. I convinced myself he had spazzed/overvalued 2pr so I could call on an AK3QQ runout, when he had raised pre. I mean it's just blatantly obvious he had me crushed, and for whatever reason I said efff it he's spazzing with AK here.

How do you get over "regret tilt" or "self hate for making a noob married to hand call...tilt". Lol

Well, I'm off to the....



I'm excited. Almost everyone who has ever won a bracelet does so on the month they are running hot, and I'm running like the Flash dashing on the surface of the sun

I have a good feeling I'm gonna pick up one of these...

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/7720/wsop4pg.jpg

So, my plan is to basically relax today, maybe go see Hangover 3 later tonight around 9pm (if you are in Vegas and want to hang out tonight, send me a PM ).

Then sleep like the dead, and play the Rio Daily deep stack Friday at 3pm as a warm up to the WSOP Event #6.

I plan on playing the B flight 5pm so I'll buy my ticket tomorrow.

Anyone else playing "The Millionaire Maker" ???

I'll report my tourney progress. Overall, I plan on playing the Daily Deep stack, Millionaire Maker and if I bust out, then I'll probably play a Venetian Deepstack Extravaganza event. I also will be playing the cash game.

I'm taking $4k specifically for one shot at 10/20nl and then another $3k for normal 2/5nl and $3k for tournaments. I plan on probably flying back next week around Wednesday, but if I run good then I'll just stay.

So hopefully I just stay and rungood

dgi

If they can't adjust and only have one gear then they def aren't really good LAG's. And to the guy from 18 months ago trying to constantly bluff a super fish calling station, he's just a bad LAG.

In a nutshell, when I make a horrible mistake that I KNOW is a mistake, that is a sign I need to take a break. So I take a break, walk around, think through the mistake and try to identify WHY I made the mistake.

Then I come back to the table and reset and refocus. If I make the mistake again, then I'm done for the day.

Basically, I really focus on symptoms and when I display the symptoms I take corrective actions. Sometimes that is a break and sometimes it is just leaving.

Here are my rules for leaving due to mistakes.

My personal list of rules:

3 strikes and I'm out, meaning if I commit the following offenses 3 times in one session then I'm done regardless of how I'm running.

• Make a -EV play that I KNOW is -EV like limp calling UTG with T9o or chasing a gutshot when I don't have the direct or implied odds
• Talking while I'm in the middle of playing a hand
• Not paying attention to the action especially when i've failed to properly profile all the villains at the table (regardless if I'm in the hand or not)
• Watching TV instead of watching the hand in progress
• Celebrating when I win a big hand
• Making a play based purely on my ego
• Showing my bluffs or showing my cards for the expressed purpose of validating my ego and showing the table how awesome I am
• Talking Big Daddy Poker (i.e. i'm a pro, I play all over, I'm the best player at this casino, I crushed online, or other ego related BS)

Below are my 1 strike and I'm out rules

• Nodding off at the table for an instant
• Forgetting my hole cards while a hand is in progress
• Making a call on the river when I 100% know that I am beat
• Throwing my cards at the dealer
• Arguing poker theory at the table (1st offense means I must table change, 2nd offense means I'm done for the day)
• Correcting a donk and explaining to him why his play was bad
• Slamming my fist on the table when I'm beat
• Treating poker like a pit game and gambling with money (like bets in the dark)
• Worrying about my profits for the day
• Failing to make what I know is the +EV play because I'm worried about my profits for the day
• Any overt symptom of tilt
• when 10% of my bankroll is on the table or if the table is super super juicy I will up it to 25%
• making a ******ed bluff that has no thought behind it

So following the above rules helps with my discipline because I know if I break the rules I'm done for the day. Obviously I'm human and not perfect. I find that the more tired/fatigued I am (especially when I forget to take breaks during a session) the more I tend to break my own rules...

hope this helps

It is possible to be a good LAG and be stuck in one gear. I guess the word "good" is where we are running into semantic problems. So, I will replace "good" with profitable.

LAG means "Loose Aggressive". So in order to "change gears" you would have to switch to a different style, nit, ABC, TAG...

So by definition, if you are playing 100% LAG then guess what? You are stuck in one gear.

its been my experience that good LAGs (i.e. profitable LAGs) are stuck in one gear. They play wayyyy too many hands and their style of play is such where "not" playing loose aggressive is like watching grass grow. They can't "not" do it.

Sure, maybe they can tighten up for one or 2 orbits after they have gotten spanked, but after that, they are right back to their LAGy ways...

to be fair though, good LAGs can and will often CRUSH the game (as the Z-LAG in my post does). I fully expect him to adjust to me during our next session, that will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Lastly, overall good "Players" are capable of switching gears from LAG to TAG to nit as the table dynamics and situations warrant.

but I kinda think of LAG as the "dark side" of poker. The power is intoxicating. I mean, you get to play more pots and use your skill more and it doesn't take long until you are just splashing around with a VPIP of 35%, 40%, 50%.... And due to your skill edge you find that you can offset the disadvantages normally associated with such a high VPIP. Once you submit to the dark side, it is very hard to "not" play that way all the time... and I find that is what traps a lot of "good" LAGs until all they are are LAGs. Sure, maybe they can tighten up for one or two orbits but that is about it.

Congrats on the good run and awesome thread.

What exactly do you mean overplaying draws? Does it mean calling to much with draws when we do not have odds or implied odds to draw? Or being to aggressive with draws? I usually play my draws fast and try to apply a lot of pressure on my opponents and try to win with FE. I slow down when facing a calling station though. I do have the adequate bankroll to ride out the variance train.

And last question, I am 2/5 player looking to slowly transition to 5/10nl. So my question is:

Besides what you have stated what are some other differences between a 2/5nl and 5/10nl player? And do you any tips on how to beat your average 5/10nl player?


GL in Vegas

A typical mistake at 2/5 is someone getting all in three way with a made hand and a better draw. Also 3 bet shoving over people who can't raise/fold.