Well the proper way is pretty much impossible to do at the table unless you tank for like 10 minutes or are a human calculator so im just gunna memorize the most common ones like:
- oesd against set
- flush draw against set
- pair and flush draw against overpair

Etc etc

Like ive been using the short cut way but it's pretty off when you have a higher number of outs.

Anyone got better ideas?

Oh and that's only for when you know their hand (ie like when you know they would never do this without a set)
When you only have a range (which is way more likely), that adds more stuff to be memorized

And yet here I am, cant even add up the pot correctly sometimes

Ain't nobody got time for that math ish! ... go by feel...

Yes:

Get it in

Get it in

Get it in

Apparently bips! poker advice and my mind-frame when I was in high-school are exactly the same.

By shortcut way, I assume you mean rule of 2 and 4? Pretty sure you can make it more accurate by subtracting a small amount with larger amounts of outs. Anyways, I don't think it matters that much since we never know for certain what our opponent has, so it's all a ballpark estimate anyways.

Glickfinger,stickinair,Ifeelsabout7outs,no?G

guess I never left high school mentally

SB - I assume you are looking to calculate pot odds when action is not closing? (i.e. chips left to play on the next street). If so, memorizing tables is not worthwhile. Implied odds, opponent tendencies @ next street sizing, how easily they can be scared off, etc - all of that matters more.

I only calculate pot odds on all in decisions. In which case, the only time the 2-4 shortcut doesn't work is on the flop, with a high number of outs. (Reason it is off is that you are double counting the times you hit the turn and the river). In most common situations (with play left), you should only be calculating the chance to hit the immediate next card - because we are expecting action on that next street. And then implied odds come in, etc. Almost always (lol V bet sizing) - you are getting the odds to continue in the situations you listed. Primarily because over pairs and sets and strong V hands offer great implied odds.

Bip - the table im memorizing has two columns - one for all in otf and one for all in ott. Yeah it would be mainly for calling all ins, but i thought itll also be helpful for determining if i have direct odds to call & what my hand's equity is. I can pretty much use the number from the second column for going one street from flop to turn because # of outs divided by 47 is pretty close to divided by 46.

I think i might be gii or continuing a tad too light with draws sometimes so Im trying to plug that leak

So what you're saying is that there is no meter that goes off in your head that says either hes strong or weak

fixed some posts

Why is there a problem with the rule of 2 and 4 being off when you have a high number of outs? The following example will show you how ridiculously over-pot-size your opponents would need to bet in order for the inaccuracies to have an effect.

Math Time
Give yourself 12 outs facing a flop all-in. Rule of 2-4 says you have 48% equity but we *know* that number is high.

A) Pot is $200, how much does your opponent have to bet to deny you proper odds if you have 48% equity?

B) Pot is $200, how much does your opponent have to bet to deny you proper odds if you have 44.96% equity? (the real 12 out number)

This is how I plan to get better at math this month (yes i can't add up the pot/sidepot correctly sometimes or do it too slowly)

Yup that's a fair point. What about the opponent's redraws outs though? Thought knowing my equity would help me avoid too thin spots to call or get it in. And usually those number of outs are best case scenarios too where we assume we have max outs no? Realistically we should adjust down for stronger hands and blockers in their range I imagine.

That's why you should learn the combinatoric math instead that accounts for all of those factors. If you stove a lot of situations plus learn some of the underlying math it's not too hard.

Yeah true.
It would prob be more realistic and practical to just stove the scenarios that comes up most frequently and memorize those

Lumosity has an app, don't know how they compare.

Just tried it out. it doesnt seem to have that many arithmetic challenges, not to mention it's like $60/year

huh, thought the app was free. Guess I should use it more lol.

Realizing fold equity needed vs. ranges is way more important than direct pot odds. (Hint, it's not much)

i.e. continuing off bip!'s post, you should be the one jamming those hands, not calling it off. Try to be the one calling off with draws as seldom as possible.

I barely calculate pot odds unless as bip says all the chips are in and it's on me. Still then I don't really bother because folding is for the kiddie game down the street.

Guess I need to move up to where they respect my shoves.

For real though, in my games, it's vulnerable made hands that tend to be shoving... Can't count how many sets/2p hands I've seen shove Flop on a flush/straight draw board.

:beer: I will spend whatever time is necessary to address your problems and concerns.

Oh yeah for sure agree with that

Usually im too deep to get it in otf though so the hand would play out like this:

Flop:
V bets I raise with big draw

Turn:
Brick. Well better continue my story and bet 3/4 pot

River:
Brick. #&$@ how is that possible the board rather pair up than give me one of my 20 outs!! Welp better put the guy all in with my 0 sdv hand.
V folds. Sweet! Guess he had a bigger flush draw thank pokergod i didnt hit!

(The above includes dramatization)

The free version has like 3 things only

The math workout one is actually really good so far - not pleasing on the eyes but gets the job done lol

I know THAT feeling.

:beer: I will spend whatever time is necessary to address your problems and concerns.

Ha, shoves are respected at no level but when people get in 200bbs with KK on 678 flops they are burning money vs. any sane range that takes the line snowball posted above.

She can have all reasonable draws and its still a huge error and yet they do call down and feel great. We however have the last laugh as we take all our g-bucks to the bank. Oh wait

/inb4doomswitch

So Ive been going through a horrendous downswing last month and first part of this month where I just couldnt win a session. Recently I've been slowly digging back out of it (no jinx plspls), still a long way to go but learning lots along the way. Hopefully I will have some good news to report by the end of the month. Still just focusing on putting in the hours and probably looking at close to another 100 hours (if not more) for this month.

A positive improvement I've made is to incorporate working out when i travel for poker (usually for about 3-5 days long, which i do on almost a weekly basis). Also ive started to bring vitamins and health supplements with me to eat at the table (since I just cant get into the clockwork routine of taking them otherwise, but if they are in my purse then when I'm card dead I'll just start popping pills LoL. No one has commented on how sketchy it looks yet, so far.)