Just wanted to post in this thread to say thank you for doing this dude. I've watched most of your CR videos, including those with MdoranD and they are great. the uNL 2010 thread is great too. I've finally managed to buckle down and steady my way to a 1200 roll, now playing nl25. Was up to 2k at one point but went down in flames after a 10 BI doomswitch shot taking at 50/100nl in the supernova rush.

I've made about 2k grinding micros but have had major issues dealing with tilt/tilt cash outs. I've gotten better though! I've implemented an elaborate stop/loss movedown plan as well as started breathing/meditation exercises (can't hurt right?). Sadly...most of my profit has come from rakeback, which I hope to change this time around. Anyway, definitely reading this thread.

One concept I'd love for you to touch on is exploiting a major leak that I've noticed at nl25...which is that regs in general are totally terrible at adjusting to aggression/3bets, which I feel is largely due to tunnel visioning their huds. I've started off as a table maniac, gotten my 3bet hud stat to stay at around 20% (for that sample, my actual 3bet is more like 6%), then simply been amazed when my KK gets jammed on and I see 77 or A5o all in pre. Even the most standard tags adjust terribly...its like they see my hud and they are like zomg agrofish LOL all in pre with jacks np!

Thanks again!

Last year I played on Ultimate Bet, but at the 25NL level I started having some trouble finding good games during the middle of the day. There were also more bots/professional short-stackers at that level. So I moved my $800 over to Full Tilt on New Years Eve and signed up for a great rakeback deal (you recommended it). So far my impressions of FT are that the TAG regs are much more aggressive, but the fish are about the same or worse. This is over about 3k hands.

I like that it puts hand ranges as a first-class concept. I like that the book doesn't try to over-generalize concepts which seems to be the norm with books, but instead give you the tools and examples to go back and analyze the play of yourself and others. Personally, when I see a short-stacker now I'm going to take some time to figure out his ranges and write down a counter-strategy, and in the mean time I'll try the charts in the book. The part on board textures solidified some thoughts I'd had for a while about how villain ranges hit them. I'm getting about as much out of this book as I did with Professional No Limit Hold'em Vol 1 so far, which is my favorite poker book to date. I'll write more when I'm further along.

Would love to see the note taking.

Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke leaving UB is probably not a sign of confidence Also, are you signed up for TFPT? With fairly limited play (as low as 1375 points), you can end up with a week or more of CR per month for free.

I just heard that. Now they're deciding to focus on signing good Internet players? I'm glad I moved. Anyway, TFPT is one heck of a deal. Thanks for the tip, and see you on CR (alias SnowProblem).

tried two tabling 50nl rush FR down 2 buyins. man i would like to learn how to win at this level to move up to rush 100nl FR. ez way to earn FTP points but tough for me just to break even.

I should maybe 3b pre; perhaps villain would have folded but decided to try to flop A hi board. lol

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
Hero ($66.70)
BB ($64.30)
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($50) vpip:10/pfr:10/AF:2.0 23hands
UTG+2 ($50)
MP1 ($22.80)
MP2 ($46.25)
CO ($50.25)
BTN ($50)

Dealt to Hero K A

fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.75, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls $1.50, fold

FLOP ($4) 9 A 6

Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $2.40, Hero raises to $5.40, UTG+1 raises to $14.10, Hero raises to $64.95 (AI), UTG+1 calls $34.15 (AI)

TURN ($100) 9 A 6 J

RIVER ($100) 9 A 6 J 2

Hero shows K A
(Pre 43%, Flop 5.3%, Turn 18.2%)

UTG+1 shows 9 9
(Pre 57%, Flop 94.7%, Turn 81.8%)

UTG+1 wins $97.50

Maybe we could stop posting irrelevant hand histories of coolers/bad beats ITT? I think it's clogging up what's supposed to be verneer's poker challenge diary + additional strategy snippets, especially when there's nothing more to discuss about it (and even if there were strategy to discuss, just post it in the microNL or micro full ring strategy sections).

sorry to be a killjoy. :/

Standard all in preflop

There is no standard play in poker.

Verneer would probably conclude that my play was not standard. Perhaps others can learn from my mistakes.

After reading this thread and watching Verneer's Rush video from CardRunners, he's the reason I'm giving it a shot--rush 50nl FR. Your video makes it look easy but when I tried it out, I'm down 2 buyins in an hour lol

@Verneer I played this hand vs you earlier today--Rush 50nl. What should I have done on the turn to extract more? Check and give you a free card on the turn despite potential flush draw out there? Show us how to beat you

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($57.60)
BB ($48.20)
UTG ($166)
UTG+1 ($105)
UTG+2 ($135)
Hero ($67.05)
MP2 ($22.75)
CO ($22)
BTN ($116) -->Verneer

Dealt to Hero A Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.75, MP2 calls $1.75, fold, BTN calls $1.75, SB calls $1.50, fold

FLOP ($7.50) Q 3 Q

SB checks, Hero bets $4.50, MP2 folds, BTN calls $4.50, SB folds

TURN ($16.50) Q 3 Q 7

Hero bets $10, BTN folds

Hero shows A Q

Why don't we leave this thread to let Verneer post in? I think people posting their own hands and asking advice isn't really what this thread is for. Let's use this thread to learn from what he has to say, not bog him down with questions.

I’ve been an avid follower of Verneer for over a year now, and I’ve seen all his videos countless times. I try to figure out what is going on inside his head pre-flop and on each street. I’ve played against him a few times, and I observed a lot of his play when I can catch him playing on FTP or Stars now and then. I have to say that I am almost your stalker Verneer haha, because I’ve probably dedicated a good portion of my poker life through my 2 years as a poker player listening to you through your vids, watching your live play, and reading your posts and you have no idea who I am, but that doesn’t matter, you made me a winning player and that is all that matters.

If I were Verneer, and I were reading some of these hand histories posted and your thoughts on what you did and why you did it, and not only that but the advice of the other players on what should have been done, I’d be cringing and thinking that all that I have been trying to teach last year, through my last thread like this and through my videos on Cardrunners, is getting grossly misinterpreted.

The biggest thing that all players need to get out of their head is standard play. There is no standard play for any two cards. Poker is very dynamic and no hand or situation is ever the same. In fact, if your well read on Verneer, he discusses an insight he got from a book he read about how the transfer of money in poker is the result of non-standard play. If everyone played the same hands the same exact way money would not flow, it would just be shifted back and forth to each player depending on the hands they got that beat the other.

So for the hand with the AKo, if I was in your situation here is how I would play the hand:

1. I get dealt AKo in the small blind, I’m happy with my hand!

2. UTG +1 open raises for 3.5x, now I do:
I look at my HUD for him, and I see 10/10 with 23 hands, very small sample, but I can tell he is not a out of line player that’s all I can tell right now from my HUD. Now, I give him the best range I can for an unknown player playing out of the early position, I will give him 22+, AJo+, A10s+, KQs, KQo.

3. It folds to me in the small blind, now I have to make a decision to fold/call/3-bet, now I go through my actions:
- Folding, the worst –EV thing you could do in this situation, there are a lot of hands in your villains assumed range that you dominate, unless you know for certain he only opens AK+, and KK+ from EP then you should never fold ever.
- Calling - First thing, look at position, I am out of position against a unknown player and I will have to act first every street, this is bad because I will be acting blind every street against an unknown player, which could mean massive –EV leakage (this is one of those marginal tough spots people talk about). If I knew this player was a loose passive player post-flop, I would like a call here and I would be comfortable betting all 3 streets if I hit top pair top kicker (most of the time, depending on how draw heavy the flop is). But unknown, calling is marginal. Also, if I did call what would the big blind do. I think this is a very important question that I think Verneer would agree with me, is what are the players left to act going to do after you? Are they squeeze happy? Are they likely to just call any raise/3-bet because it’s multi-way and the pot is huge? You have to assess the players behind you as well in your pre-flop decisions. Remember small mistakes pre-flop compound exponentially into huge leaks on later streets. (Sorry if I steal or slaughter your quotes Verneer).
- 3-bet – I would 3 –bet here for the following reasons:
1. I have the ability to take the pot down right now and avoid playing OOP in the next few streets vs an unknown player, because I imagine he will fold a good part of his range to a 3-bet, I can see him folding 22+ through 99+, AJo, AJs, KQs, and KQo. That’s a pretty good chunk of his range. (Again he might, it’s my best educated guess, I am not 100%)
2. I get to take initiative from the player, it’s always good to give your opponent the last choice, it puts pressure on them now to fold/call/jam, and I get to glean some information off what he does, if he 4-bets jam me I can easily fold here comfortably (If you think I am weak because of this fine, but until I know he 4-bets light I will be bleeding money here calling these 4-bet james a lot but then I guess you can just make yourself feel better and say you were coolered by the top of his range right?)
3. The big blind will be less likely to come along with me or squeeze, I don’t know a tougher spot then AKo and having to play first with two player still to act behind you in a raised pot with an early position raiser.
4. If I get 4-bet, I will comfortably fold my hand.

4. Post-Flop
In a 3-bet pot on the flop, with Top pair and Top Kicker, I am going to be bet/folding unless I know the player is capable of bluff raising me (again call me weak if you want, but I can show you my win rate for the past 2 years and can say that you won't be a losing player by folding to a jam here)

Some of the questions you need to ask yourself post flop is:
1. What cards on the turn are going to be good for me?
2. What are the scary cards for me that can come on the turn?
3. What cards are scary cards for the villian on the turn that I could double barrell into? (before you do this, you have to ask yourself would the villian ever fold a ace?) On this flop/turn/river, I don't think the villian is ever folding his range ever.

Always give yourself an out in every hand, and never feel committed (I think people commit all-in to a hand even before there is any play, like AA, their plan is i'm already in it all the way), even if 40% of your stack is in, and you aren’t sure if you are a ahead, don’t feel necessary to donate the rest of 60%, your bankroll will love you for it.

Thats what i call a good first post. Lurker!

nice post...thank you

For FR i think this assigned range is too wide. It is probably more like AJs+, AQ, KQs, and most pairs.

Nice post The_Pest, I like your thought process! Verneer will be proud

*Shouldn't any hand posting be run by Verneer before posted? Gets a bit messy otherwise.

... is that an argument for flatting then?

Nice post overall and I'm happy you are winning right now. More than I can say for myself atm

I'm really frustrated with how FR has been recently so I'm going to mix in some SH play so that I don't sit around and hate life all the time. Plus, this will give me a good comparison for FR & SH play.

welcome to my world

verneer just keep up to good work. You're amazing to rail and i hope you get that 10k soon!

This isn't poker, this is the micros.

what are you frustrated with specifically?
just the lack of action?
i know youre playing rush, but wouldnt you be able to supplement that with the regular tables?

I'm frustrated that my results so far can be best approximated by the following function [1]:

f(x) = sin(x - pi/2) + 1
0 < x < 12
0 < y < 2

That said, I'm also trying answer these questions:

1. Is it variance, or do I need to make some changes to my game?
2. In what situations am I losing the most money in general?
3. What are the positives so far?
4. Where do I go from here?

[1] http://www.coolmath.com/graphit/

Verneer, thanks for the reply!

I would have to say that in position there is an argument to flat here rather then 3-bet, and if I were in position against this player I would flat here. But it's easy to say I'll flat, but let me try to explain why:

His range of 11% that I gave him, my AK fares pretty well against because 3.9% of that range I am crushing (the hands you bolded in my quote), 1.2% I will chop (AKo, AKs) most of the time (flushes), 5% (QQ-22) if an ace or king flops I have great equity, and the final .9% will crush me. So by smooth calling I get to keep all those hands that I can beat in play and see a flop.

I get to control the size of the pot, and I can gauge the strength of his hand by how he plays the flop, turn, and river. I can adjust my play to his actions and be able to maximize my profits. If he checks I could check behind, and call a turn and river bet. If he bets the flop I can comfortably call and evaluate his turn play. I am not quite sure of what all plays I could make post-flop, but then again post-flop is such a dynamic and in-depth part of poker, I mean there are 100's of books that discuss post-flop play. But by being in position I give myself the most information and resources I need to get paid off.

When your out of position, it's just hard to get paid off when you hit, and it's hard to know when your beat sometimes. It's just a marginal situation that I try to avoid, especially against an unknown player who I have no history with. So that's why I like to 3-bet out of the blinds with a strong non-made hand against an unknown player and win the pot outright, or atleast make my decision making easier and cheaper if they decide to 4-bet jam me pre-flop, then me calling, betting and then getting raised on the flop, save myself a few BB's.

As far as my range assessment, I think is an average of early position play in full ring, if you take the tightest range and the loosest range you might find in microstakes, it's an average I will assign to an unknown, and unless I get more histories with the player or if I see an unusual showdown I will adjust it. Remember not to assign ranges based on how you would play that position, or how you think that position should be played.

Verneer, I thought you would know of all people how high variance rush poker is, even at full ring! I would say you would need atleast 40 buy-ins of whatever stake your playing at, I would equate rush poker to Omaha, where you can have brutal buy-in downswings. I mean rush poker is definately profitable with the volume, but I would balance it out with some lower variance play with some standard cash or perhaps even some sit'n'go's.

I play about 60% Sit'n'gos, and about 40% of cash. I found that by playing a variety of games, my downswings and tilting was brought down quite significantly. If I lost 4 buy ins playing playing NL Hold'em 6H Cash, I'd go play some sit'n'go's. As long as I was playing profitably, I'd continue playing, until I noticed my downswing coming, then I would stop playing that game and move on to maybe pot limit cash, or do a few rush games. I wish I could show you all my graph. I am currently in the military and deployed and I don't have access to my HEM, but I will be home shortly, and should have plenty to post when I get back, however I will be posting off and on in this thread, because I look forward to the discussions that we can have on here.

no idea what that means/is