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Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Moving Up Through uNL in 2011

01-14-2011 , 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ass Get to Jigglin
dont you think the river bet is a bit thin given theres a flush and 2 4straights on board?
Yeah I was thinking that too. By betting you are representing either the flush or straight, so I don't think you will get any value.

Last edited by SnowProblem; 01-14-2011 at 07:41 PM.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ass Get to Jigglin
dont you think the river bet is a bit thin given theres a flush and 2 4straights on board?
Very thin, yes. I def misplayed the hand.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcfishOrz
how did you manage to make red line positive? you just raise to make them fold?
Just FYI, it is possible to have a positive red line at the micros. I've started opening up my game and playing more aggressively and this is the result - my past few sessions at 25NL and some 50NL.



Easy game.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyncho
Just FYI, it is possible to have a positive red line at the micros. I've started opening up my game and playing more aggressively and this is the result - my past few sessions at 25NL and some 50NL.



Easy game.
LOL ... awesome. Is this FR or SH?
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by verneer
LOL ... awesome. Is this FR or SH?
All 6max on Stars. On the downside I looked at my river call efficiency over those 2k hands or so and it was approx 0.15, so it might just be that I never ever folded, I don't know. Fun though.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 09:50 PM
$1,000!

After back-to-back $140 days, I've reached a big milestone for the challenge. Took 14 days and 67,995 hands.



Nice to be running/playing much better at the next level:



Progress graph:



I am 100% certain I'll start taking shots at 50NL before the end of the month.

I'll post a few interesting hands from today in the next post. There were a total of 13 that I set aside for review.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 09:53 PM
[x] crushing
[?] 10K by march

WP verneer. Keep going mate.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 09:57 PM
congrats on 1000$

Lyncho:Me too by playing more aggressively My red lien went up
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 10:20 PM
Three Hands to Reflect On (starting with turn play):

Think about it, post your thoughts, but please do so in the spoiler format to allow others to post their thoughts as well and not be biased.

Hand 1: Villain is playing 9/0 over 159 hands.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -
CO: $28.55
BTN: $32.60
Hero (SB): $14.17
BB: $20.02
UTG: $22.25
UTG+1: $42.93
UTG+2: $16.22
MP1: $25.00
MP2: $25.77

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with A K
UTG calls $0.25, 6 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.25) 3 A 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, UTG calls $1.25

Turn: ($4.75) A (2 players)
Hero ... ?

Hand 2: Villain is playing 28/20 over 26 hands.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -

UTG: $36.70
UTG+1: $22.11
UTG+2: $10.15
MP1: $25.10
MP2: $28.27
CO: $38.08
BTN: $10.35
SB: $9.55
Hero (BB): $17.46

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with K K
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.85, 6 folds, Hero raises to $3, UTG+1 calls $2.15

Flop: ($6.10) 8 T 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $3.75, UTG+1 calls $3.75

Turn: ($13.60) A (2 players)
Hero ... ?

Hand 3: Villain is playing 20/10 over 11 hands.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players -

MP2: $25.00
Hero (CO): $51.20
BTN: $23.75
SB: $10.00
BB: $52.31
UTG: $13.06
UTG+1: $10.00
UTG+2: $31.87
MP1: $15.98

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with A 2
5 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, BB calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.10) 3 7 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.75, BB calls $0.75

Turn: ($2.60) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ... ?

Also, I want to surpass Andrew Wiggins on Twitter (ah ... the little things we strive for ), so I'm going to give away a free coaching session which reviews your game to one random person that end up following me there. Good luck

Last edited by verneer; 01-14-2011 at 10:26 PM.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 11:00 PM
following you mate. gl with the rest of the challenge!
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-14-2011 , 11:01 PM
Awesome!

Following!
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 12:05 AM
Spoiler:
hand #1 is an easy bet/call, fully expecting worse trips to ship.

hand #2 is probably closer to a check/evaluate than a shove for thin value (having about $10 on the turn seeing as we started shallow). I think the mid pair/QQ/JJ part of his range will check back turn allowing us to vbet river, while his Ax floats will be betting turn. Think you need more info on what hands he peels 3bets with and whether he floats in 3bet pots, but default would be to c/evaluate.

hand #3 I'd check behind, not a good turn to barrel unless you're planning to triple barrel
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by verneer
$1,000!

After back-to-back $140 days, I've reached a big milestone for the challenge. Took 14 days and 67,995 hands.



Nice to be running/playing much better at the next level:



Progress graph:



I am 100% certain I'll start taking shots at 50NL before the end of the month.

I'll post a few interesting hands from today in the next post. There were a total of 13 that I set aside for review.
Congrats
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 01:28 AM
Spoiler:
Hand 1- I would like to know villain's limp/call stat, because I am wondering if he ever folds to an iso raise preflop. Is he passive or aggressive post-flop?

Assuming he does limp/call his whole range and given the flop action, I think he would most likely have some PP here KK-77, or possibly but not likely AK-AJs. If he is aggressive post flop, I would check it to him and let him try to take the pot away after floating me on the flop. If passive I would bet for value about $3.

Hand 2- Given such small sample size I would disregard the stats and basically treat villain as unknown. You 3bet him preflop so I would assume he has hit the flop or holds a PP when he calls you on this flop. He could have JT-98s, AT or 88-AA. Pstove says you're ahead of this range.

I would check/fold here because I don't think the villain will bet less than AA here (unless he is a spaztard) given you have less than a PSB left.

Hand 3- I would check the turn and take my free card and hope my flush hits.

Last edited by pipernga; 01-15-2011 at 01:34 AM.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 02:07 AM
Spoiler:
Hand 1:

C/R

Villain's range is probably mostly comprised of pocket pairs, followed by trips, followed by full houses. I would check, because a lot of the pocket pairs might fold to a turn bet, but call a river bet. If villain bets he probably either has trips or a FH or is pulling some kind of bluff, so I would raise at this point assuming he won't fold an ace.

Hand 2:

C/F

High pocket pairs, AK and maybe AQs in his range. I would check and fold to a bet, because I don't expect him to bet something like QQ, JJ or 99 here. If he checks back I would value bet any river card.

Hand 3:

B/F

Villain's range is probably mostly comprised of draws with some 7x and 8x hands. I'd bet since we'll get called by worse draws and then win with A high at showdown some of the time and get even more value if we hit. 88, 77, 87s probably raise flop, but even if not they're not a huge part of his range. Wouldn't expect a raise here too often and wouldn't be happy to see it, but this guy is probably pretty passive so I might just give it credit, because we're deep and don't want to draw just to get valueowned by a FH.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 02:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by verneer
Finally, I plan to donate the $10,000 to charity when I'm done. Easy come, easy go, right?
This is pretty awesome. What do you do for a living to allow you to do this, Verneer, if you don't mind me asking? It's pretty cool that you can give up opportunity costs of playing higher stakes to help uNL-ers and even at the end of the challenge you donate your profits.

Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by verneer
Reviewing a Session:

After a pretty bad session (like I had yesterday), it's good to go back and examine your play. One way to do that is to look at big pots that you've played. Yesterday, I lost 40 BB's or more in 18 pots.

Those 18 pots can be classified into the following categories:

1. Losing a flip (2). Completely standard and it happens. Yesterday I lost twice with AK vs. QQ in 4-handed situations (i.e. I raise from the CO, get 3B by the SB, and shove my AK).

2. Getting in a big PP preflop, find yourself up against a better one (2). For example, villain here is playing 27/20 over 30 hands:

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

MP2: $35.24
CO: $38.02
BTN: $31.82
SB: $27.36
BB: $25.00
UTG: $11.35
Hero (UTG+1): $12.50
UTG+2: $46.16
MP1: $56.38

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG+1 with Q Q
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $2.25, 4 folds, Hero raises to $12.50 all in, MP2 calls $10.25

Flop: ($25.35) 5 8 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: ($25.35) 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($25.35) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $25.35
MP2 shows A A (a pair of Aces)
Hero shows Q Q (a pair of Queens)
MP2 wins $24.09
(Rake: $1.26)

Keep in mind that I only have 50 BB's which makes my decision fairly easy. I am 100% ok with how I played both of these hands and neither is particularly interesting.

3. Getting it in with 65%+ equity (2). Once preflop (KK vs. A6o), and then this hand on the turn (villain was 27/20 over 43 hands and I obv I felt he could have worse here with < 1/2 PSB on the turn):

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

CO: $21.35
BTN: $30.11
Hero (SB): $16.40
BB: $27.62
UTG: $25.78
UTG+1: $17.55
UTG+2: $22.30
MP1: $37.17
MP2: $17.54

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with K Q
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.75, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2.75, 1 fold, MP2 calls $2.25

Flop: ($9.75) 4 T Q (3 players)
Hero bets $5.25, BB calls $5.25, MP2 folds

Turn: ($20.25) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $8.15 all in, BB calls $8.15

River: ($36.55) 3 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $36.55
Hero shows K Q (a pair of Queens)
BB shows A K (a flush, Ace high)
BB wins $34.73
(Rake: $1.82)

4. Slow-playing and then having villain get there (4). Those are the ones that need the most analysis. Sometimes slow-playing is a good thing as it allows villains to make second-best hands on later streets. In this case, villain was 23/18 and very aggressive. I decided to slow-play the flop, and then call down.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

UTG: $39.43
UTG+1: $37.08
UTG+2: $10.00
Hero (MP1): $17.66
MP2: $11.50
CO: $29.70
BTN: $25.00
SB: $32.18
BB: $93.55

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP1 with 4 4
UTG raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold, CO calls $0.75, 3 folds

Flop: ($2.60) 8 4 K (3 players)
UTG bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, CO folds

Turn: ($5.60) 3 (2 players)
UTG bets $4, Hero calls $4

River: ($13.60) 5 (2 players)
UTG bets $12.60, Hero calls $11.41 all in

Final Pot: $36.42
UTG shows 9 T (a flush, Ten high)
Hero mucks 4 4
UTG wins $34.60
(Rake: $1.82)

5. "WTF was I thinking?" (1). I am ok with a river bet here, but once he raises, it's just a fold. I am 100% sure my mind turned off there for a few seconds.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

CO: $26.45
Hero (BTN): $21.22
SB: $17.27
BB: $17.91
UTG: $10.35
UTG+1: $21.06
UTG+2: $48.80
MP1: $25.38
MP2: $40.53

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with 7 9
5 folds, CO raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.50, 1 fold, BB calls $2.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($5.85) 5 7 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($5.85) J (2 players)
BB bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

River: ($12.85) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB raises to $11.91 all in, Hero calls $5.91

Final Pot: $36.67
Hero mucks 7 9
BB shows J J (three of a kind, Jacks)
BB wins $34.84
(Rake: $1.83)

6. Overplaying hands postflop (2). Villain is a nit, I took AK out of his range preflop and shouldn't have. I blame me having 50 BB's on this.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BB: $25.70
UTG: $26.25
Hero (UTG+1): $12.50
UTG+2: $12.98
MP1: $32.17
MP2: $19.17
CO: $30.24
BTN: $35.71
SB: $25.71

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG+1 with A Q
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, CO calls $0.75, 3 folds

Flop: ($1.85) A 7 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $1, CO raises to $2.70, Hero raises to $11.75 all in, CO calls $9.05

Turn: ($25.35) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($25.35) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $25.35
Hero shows A Q (a pair of Aces)
CO shows A K (a pair of Aces)
CO wins $24.09
(Rake: $1.26)

7. Bad bluff (1). Meh ... sometimes you get owned.

8. Bluff-catching gone bad (1). Sometimes they got it. This one is close:

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

BB: $42.27
UTG: $9.55
UTG+1: $10.35
UTG+2: $32.39
MP1: $23.58
Hero (MP2): $12.50
CO: $24.48
BTN: $9.91
SB: $6.14

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP2 with J A
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.75, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($2.35) T 6 K (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.50, BTN folds, BB calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.35) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3.50, BB calls $3.50

River: ($12.35) 9 (2 players)
BB bets $36.52 all in, Hero calls $6.75 all in

Final Pot: $25.85
BB shows J Q (a flush, King high)
Hero mucks J A
BB wins $24.56
(Rake: $1.29)

9. Raising due to fold equity, calling it off (or shoving) with actual equity (2) (there has to be a better name for this). An opportunity arrives which screams "raise" and then you call it off with equity:

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

SB: $47.34
BB: $10.28
UTG: $25.00
UTG+1: $22.65
UTG+2: $36.15
MP1: $25.10
MP2: $25.00
Hero (CO): $12.50
BTN: $6.60

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with 4 A
5 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, BB calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.10) 2 3 9 (2 players)
BB bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

Turn: ($2.60) K (2 players)
BB bets $1, Hero raises to $2.75, BB raises to $9.03 all in, Hero calls $6.28

River: ($20.66) 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $20.66
BB shows 9 7 (a pair of Nines)
Hero shows 4 A (Ace King high)
BB wins $19.63
(Rake: $1.03)

10. Cooler (1). TT < 55 on 556T8 board.

What to take away from this:

You want most of your losing pots to be due to coolers, flips, or bad beats. The slow-playing can go either way and is very villain dependent. The ones that you don't want to be losing a lot of pots in are overplaying your hands post-flop and "wtf was I thinking?" (I need a better name for this as well).

Also, if you guys have any other categories in which you lost a big pot, please let me know - I would like to refine this list for the future as a session-evaluation tool.
How about hand "9. Raising due to fold equity, calling it off (or shoving) with actual equity (2) (there has to be a better name for this). An opportunity arrives which screams "raise" and then you call it off with equity:"
You mean we should avoid spots like these even though we have enough equity to call it off?
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 05:38 AM
1. 9-0 limps strong aces utg, too. I think you're only getting 1 street of value from his pocket pairs most of the time, except for maybe JJ-KK. His range here is probably AT-AK, 22-KK. To maximize our value against this range I would bet just over 1/2 pot on the turn (and never fold to a raise) and bet pot (shove) any river. He'll have hard time folding his TT-KK on this board. I don't think he can read that you're never bluffing here once you bet the flop and the turn as this kind of a player generally only plays his own hand.

2. UTG+1 hardly ever has an ax here. Would he be the kind of a player who likes to call off bluffs? If that's the case, I'd shove the turn. Actually, in any case, you have less than the pot and I think shove is pretty much the only option here, you'll often get calls from JJ-QQ which is a large part of his range (which should be something like 99-AA + AQ-AK although AQ/AK fold the flop almost always).

3. I would bet the turn to increase the size of the pot (we're deepstacked) as we have good equity vs his calling range and something like 15 or 16 good cards for river. Also, he often folds his smallish pocket pairs and some part of the time also has worse draws here (which he probably won't fold). I would bet most rivers, especially any club, 9, J, K, Q and A. I would not bet an eight or seven or 4, 5, 6.

Verneer, what about the QQ hand a couple of days ago? I would love to hear your thoughts about it.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeneil
How about hand "9. Raising due to fold equity, calling it off (or shoving) with actual equity (2) (there has to be a better name for this). An opportunity arrives which screams "raise" and then you call it off with equity:"
You mean we should avoid spots like these even though we have enough equity to call it off?
That really depends ... most of the time I would err on the side of aggression and trying to apply FE as well. On the other hand, if I'm stuck and it means I'm going to risk more than it's worth, I will just call and hope I hit.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 06:30 AM
GJ reaching $1k so fast.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonToGoBroke
Verneer, what about the QQ hand a couple of days ago? I would love to hear your thoughts about it.
The_Pest pretty much nailed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pest
Wow, what a tough spot. I'd be happy with QQ in Early Position, but when you get called by a NIT and then an unknown tags along things get a little fuzzy. On top of that you will be OOP against both players.

I think the nit is set mining the majority of the time here, I don't think they would call your UTG raise with AQ or lower (probably just fold it), so your looking at a range of pocket pairs and your probably getting 3-bet if they had AK. The unknown's play seems like set mining too, he is going to get paid off huge if he hits his set against two players especially from EP, he could also call here with like J10s, or 910S or some draws that will hit your range while helping their draw and they will have position.

By checking the flop you get more information then you would if you bet it out and far cheaply as well. You check, the nit gets to act, and then you get to see what the third player does. So essentially you get to act last by checking. Also, if you did bet out, your hand is pretty much face up as an over pair, because most people play straight forward in multi-way pots and most players would muck their hands on the flop anyway, by checking you can get some action by hands that may fold to your initial bet because you were the pre-flop raiser but bet if you checked behind signifying you probably have nothing here but overcards.

If I had to make a guess of what hands they had at showdown. I'd say the nit had a set, and the unknown had like pocket 9's, or pocket 8's.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 07:21 AM
Spoiler:
1st Hand)

UTG is a extremely tight/passive player, which leads me to believe he plays fairly straightforward and unlikely to do any crazy bluffs. His opening limp range seems like he has pocket pairs, AQs+.

I would bet/fold on the turn, I don't see him folding a lot of his range on a relatively dry flop, and the turn is a great card, yes if he had a set on the flop he now has a full house, but if he bets over the top of us on the turn it makes it easier for you to fold this hand because with a paired board you just have to fold it here to a raise. He doesn't seem like the guy that's going to 3-bet you on a turn because the board paired without him having it. Also, the ace dropping on the flop may make him believe it's less likely you have an ace, so he might continue with his kk/qq/88-1010. On the river I would check/call a relatively respectable flop bet, if he overbets the pot or goess all-in I'd fold it.
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 08:02 AM
Meant to say ace dropping on the turn above
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenzied Deity
This is pretty awesome. What do you do for a living to allow you to do this, Verneer, if you don't mind me asking? It's pretty cool that you can give up opportunity costs of playing higher stakes to help uNL-ers and even at the end of the challenge you donate your profits.

I make educational material for CardRunners.com.

So ... feel free to send a "Thank You" note to Taylor Caby for giving me a job, keeping me employed, and supporting my involvement on 2+2 via threads like this one. There is no way I could do what I do without CR.

It's an amazing company to work for and I count my blessings daily to be able to do what I do and make a living at it
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote
01-15-2011 , 10:24 AM
following verneer, loving the threaf, very frustrating to see your graphs though!!
hopefully one day i'll be there
Moving Up Through uNL in 2011 Quote

      
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