Isn't the answer: just keep playing them

Interesting thread.

Verneer, I think something you failed to compensate for this year over last is Full Tilt's rake increase at the micros. At $10NL and lower the rake has been increased to just under 7% as opposed to the standard 5% everywhere else. $10NL on Full Tilt is raked at 11bb/100 full ring, and 15bb/100 6-max [ http://www.pokertableratings.com/pok...imit-hold%27em ].

That has massive implications on everything. For instance, in a standard 100bb eventually all in confrontation, you pay $1.33 or just under 14bb in rake on the pots you win. So you lose a whole buyin in the pots you lose, but only win a bit more than 86% of a buyin on the pots you win. So the BREAKEVEN point means you need to be about 54/46 win/loss. 54/46 is already a wide margin in this game of small edges and again that's just to break even. To show just a 15bb longterm profit per confrontation you need to be going 62/38. What percentage of pots that were over 180bb (I'm not sure if that HEM filter is pre/post rake) were you winning?

The rake is also collected extremely aggressively, at every $0.15, meaning every single bb you put into a pot that is called (for a total of $0.20) is always raked. So even decisions like cbetting have to work vastly more often to show a profit in and of themselves. It's not just 2% more rake, it's 40% more relative to the standard 5%. The rake is already destroying profitability enough in normal games. I'm glad I never had to play as low as $10. Congrats on getting through it!

And the rake is not just something to just whine and bitch about. I think anybody who is playing in the micros couldn't be hurt by trying to figure out ways to try to decrease its impact on their earn rate.

The most obvious way would be to try to decide situations preflop more often that result in situations where you typically have a lower W$WSF. So the obvious thing would be substantially dropping speculative flats. How much are you earning/losing with pairs, suited connectors, etc when you are not the PFR?

And especially for those that are player a tighter style, I wonder what the impact of increasing your standard sizes would be. The implications are much too complex to even guess but the goal is simple - end more hands preflop to avoid the site taking 14% of your profit from the pots you win. The idea would be to change a standard open from 3bb to something like 4 or even 5bb. And a standard 3-bet goes from 11-12bb to something like 15-16bb. This is even better at a stake like $10NL where its unlikely many of the players would actively work figuring out how to exploit such sizing. Even more so in huge rush pools.

On the downside you discourage action from speculative hands. On the upside you save massively on the rake when you don't see a flop. There's also the possibility that this wouldn't change much against your main targets at the table anyhow. Is a fish going to call his 75s for 3bb and fold it for 5bb? Certainly not all of them so the only way to see if its a good idea would be to try it out.

New rake structure from FTP sucks--now i'm receiving 50% less in rakeback than before...

Verneer, can you provide couple of hand samples where you made a postflop laydown with over pairs in a two way pot.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69.../#post24085192

Jan 11th Update:



Picking up a lot of steam at 25NL. BR = $654 and I expect to get some good rakeback on Friday.

well done sir.

Hi Verneer,
When do you think you will reach 10k?

Very impressive - I can't wait to see your videos. Hope some of your wisdom rubs off on me

oh man this is really helpin me as i am currently trying to build a bank roll playin 5nl (started for the new year also) but your graphs make it look so easy!!! im really struggling at the moment i think i need more volume to be able to ignore the downswings more but as im only averaging about 1000 hands a day the downswings can feel pretty painfull

Something I've found myself doing lately is starting up one regular 6max table and one 6max rush table. I use the regular 6max table to work on my A game --- looking for reads, watching hands I'm not involved in, guessing ranges, etc -- but I can keep my hands/hour up with the rush table on the side which doesn't take much concentration.

I'm currently doing the same thing but I'm playing 10nl 6max rush instead. I'm thinking of switching to FR because of veerner. Is there any merits to it?

Are there any good threads that I can read abt FR play, i've never played a hand of FR in my life.

Verneer can you please post a graph with showdown and non-showdown winnings.

I know it looks so easy when you look at Verneer’s graph, but the most important thing is to not expect the same results. If you do, you will end up tilting and/or playing with the wrong/attitude and/or just getting yourself more frustrated about why you are down 10 buy-ins when the micros should be super easy. I mean NFL quarterbacks make throwing a football look easy but I would suck horribly at it.

If you are new or not a winning player at poker in general, the rush games are not the games to be playing right off the bat. You will have little to no decision time to plan your hands, you will have little to no reads on your opponents, and if you have minor leaks that you don’t know about they become significant in rush because you are playing a lot more hands and this will multiply their effects on your losses.

I’d start off playing the normal tables and work on the following:
1. Focus on table selection (nits on left, loose/aggressives on right)
2. Practice on giving your opponents hand ranges at each position and analyze how they play their draws/pairs/monsters/air post-flop
3. Play in position a lot, and avoid out of position, don’t worry too much about defending your blinds, and 3-betting light, focus on solid honest poker, give yourself easy decisions. If you don’t have a solid read on a players opening range I’d even fold AQ out of position.
4. Avoid following static hand charts, even though the chart says to only play these hands at these positions, which may or may not be necessarily true. Play hands in position and choose hands that you think go well against your opponents opening raise ahead of you, or hands that play well against possible opponents left to act. With every hand you decide to play, ask yourself, “Who is the Target?”, and if you can’t answer that question then, “Why are you playing at that table?”

To be honest, the hardest person you are going to have to face in poker is yourself. You’re going to have to stay disciplined, and not gamble. Don’t give in to the monster inside you, don’t get frustrated, and if you get coolered and are upset then stop! If your losing and you tell yourself I am going to keep playing till I regain my losses, STOP! Those are bad mind sets to be in, because you’re going to try and take every edge to regain your losses and just end up bleeding out more money.

^^^ Key advice. Thanks.

This isn't HU, but I end up folding QQ vs. two players. MP1 is a nit, BTN is an unknown, but seem fishy:

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

Hero (UTG+2): $14.17
MP1: $25.76
MP2: $43.04
CO: $30.72
BTN: $43.47
SB: $47.16
BB: $10.83
UTG: $25.76
UTG+1: $11.31

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG+2 with Q Q
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, MP1 calls $0.75, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.75, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.60) 4 5 7 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $2, BTN raises to $5.60, Hero folds, MP1 requests TIME, MP1 raises to $12, BTN raises to $42.72 all in, MP1 calls $13.01 all in

Turn: ($52.62) 2 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($52.62) A (2 players - 2 are all in)

Why would you be checking that flop? Check-raise would seem bad, check-calling is bad as you often miss value or don't know what ranges you are up against. Can you please explain a bit?

Can you think of any reasons to check that flop?

What was the plan on the flop? Give them a chance to bluff with a Check/call? and then too much action on this type of flop forced you to fold? Are you expecting the nit to show up with a set here? and the BTN something like 68s, A6s, 88+ & AJ+?

What was the thought behind the fold? While you may be ahead right now, in a 3-way pot your equity is pretty thin? And when you aren't ahead you are crushed?

Bad day today ... stuck quite a bit. Quit for the time being right after this hand:

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

UTG+1: $20.99
UTG+2: $17.72
MP1: $20.79
MP2: $27.20
CO: $13.53
BTN: $41.52
Hero (SB): $20.24
BB: $53.00
UTG: $25.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with T T
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.70, UTG+2 calls $0.70, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.60, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.35) 5 5 6 (3 players)
Hero bets $1.25, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $1.25

Turn: ($4.85) T (2 players)
Hero bets $2.50, UTG+2 calls $2.50

River: ($9.85) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $6.75, UTG+2 raises to $13.27 all in, Hero calls $6.52


I'll answer some Q's that you guys recently posted after breakfast, clear my head, and go back to the tables. So ... post away if you would like.

For pot control OOP? We don't expect to get 3 streets of value from worse hands on a flop like this and we aren't crazy about half the turn cards that come so why inflate the pot OOP. Would that be a valid reason?

So are you balancing here or just think that they will play their hands straightforwardly >90% of the time?

The flop does hit their range quite heavily, but still you're good here like 2/3 of the time. Against 1 tag you'd probably get 2 streets of value with a very good equity representing AK or a scary pair when the villain bets for value or bluffs with his/her worse one pair hands. Against 2 players it's very risky and you'll give too good odds for the other players - they can also check back the flop and there are many bad turn cards (7, 6, 8, 3, for example).

When you bet, you're hands looks exactly what it is (you may have suited connectors some portion of the time but you hardly ever bet here w/overcards). If we assume they will play straightforwardly, you'll get 1 or 2 streets of value from worse made hands and draws and they will probably come over you on the turn, quite often already on the flop. I don't think many Rush NL25 players turn their made hands into bluffs at all. For this reason, I'd go for the standard (I hate the word, there's really no standard move) bet-fold flop - bet safe turns, evaluate bad turns (they will often be scared of the scare card, too, with their 77-JJ and one pair hands).

But as you hardly get 3 streets of value, seeing what others do on the flop after you will help you determine their ranges and on a safe turn (assuming there's no raising on the flop) you can easily go for value, and often get called, too. I guess it's a question of small ball tactics and prevents you from making big mistakes, but I hardly think it maximizes your EV.

As for balancing, I don't think that could be the reason at RUSH NLmicros, as there are usually no reads and balancing doesn't really increase your ev at these stakes.

The more confident I feel, the more likely I am to keep a large stack at the table.
A few months ... no idea though.

Oops, just noticed your short stacked in the hand. That changes things a bit. You'll get your stack in on the flop nicely with a check-raise.

Just saw your video was posted at CR - but my free week ran out. Time to grind some more FTP's so I get another free week

Actually, I may drop my DC sub and sub to CR instead - the selection of videos that interest me seems to be better at CR anyway.

Got trapped by quad Kings the other day. I had a pocket AA, the flop was AKK. The villain called a big 3bet preflop, so I figured he had a hand and he flatted my flop bet almost immediately (even given the lag inherent in online play, it felt instant ). I felt something was up. I even checked the turn to give him a chance to bet and see if I could pick up anything. He checked back with his quads. Then he check-raised me all-in on the river. I just couldn't bring myself to lay down Aces full of Kings even though I knew what I'd see when he flipped them over