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#MillionClub - It ain't cheese if it's less than a mil' #MillionClub - It ain't cheese if it's less than a mil'

01-07-2013 , 10:02 AM
Zima
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01-07-2013 , 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theginger45
I don't know about anyone else, but my reaction when I came into this thread was "oh, wow, AWice going for 8M VPP, that's pretty sick. GL, hope he does it".

Now, after reading some of the terrible posting ITT, I'm checking it every few hours thinking "GOOOOOOO AWICE, ****in ship it man, VAMOOOOOOOOOO" as if I had 50% of him or something.

Some seriously ****ing pathetic people ITT trying to **** on other people's life goals.
agree with this.

if he thinks he can do it, then surely he can.

go Awice!
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01-07-2013 , 10:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timex
Maybe most people would collapse under this stress, but they clearly underestimate Alex.

One of my favorite Awice stories goes back to 2006 before either of us were that serious about poker. We were both in first year math at the University of Waterloo. Our school had advanced classes for calculus and algebra which we were both enrolled in- during these classes far less people surf the internet/**** around than in most university classes since they move pretty quickly and it was the first time in my life I ever found myself falling behind in a math class.

Back in these days, no one played more than like 8 tables- rainkhan had to send in a video of himself like 30 tabling since even poker stars didn't believe someone could play that many tables.

Anyways, in this lecture hall of ~80 students writing as quick as they can to keep up with the professor, theres Awice in the middle of the room- 24 tabling SNGs on his laptop, with his right hand, while practicing for the highest level of para para paradise(an arcade game like DDR where you wave your hands under sensors) with his left hand, all while absorbing more information in the lecture than me and most of the other students. I think his abilities for multi-tasking and making extremely quick decisions are almost second to none.

You got this Alex!
I now hate this person --;

(out of complete and unbridled jealousy of course)
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01-07-2013 , 10:51 AM
I'm gonna be answering questions now so if you post quick enough I'll get to it, I'm starting on page 2
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01-07-2013 , 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maton808
mother of god!!! he's over 200k now.

Mouldy has dropped to third, although obv that leaderboard is not realtime

Who's the Mexican on 192k?
I would guess the mexican challenger is Sherifty
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01-07-2013 , 10:54 AM
A few pages back I asked about how you are going to continue to contribute to the company that you work for (that this entire challenge is designed to support in the end). How are you going to stay part of this company when you are taking basically an entire year to submerse yourself in poker?

Any insight? Thanks.
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01-07-2013 , 11:05 AM
what gaming company you wanna work for? any chance you will work for blizzard?

can i have a signed copy of your first ever game when it comes out. thanks
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01-07-2013 , 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 147_star
Gl, this all seems pretty insane but you do seem to have done your homework! Have a couple of days to enjoy life before it disappears for a while!

A couple of questions - when you're playing such a large # of games vs the same players, how much does metagame impact your decisions?

Are you able to see the results of showdowns or do you just take stock of how you are getting on once you are winding down your session?
This is a very good question

In terms of "gameflow" not really, if I see a new technique being utilized I will consider the impact on all ranges (eg. a player with low donk flop starts to donk flop regularly, a player that rarely limps hu starts to limp regularly, cr flop, limp in ep, etc. [there are dozens of these])

It is true in highstakes that you play the same 20 players over and over, and I try to study their ranges carefully, especially players that I respect (since I often learn from them.) The players I respect are a very short list but certainly MouldyOnions and River Prayer are on that list.

I can see results of showdowns but it often does not factor into my future decision-making. Sometimes it does though. When I see a hand I tend to think about "if I think that with me continuing to play range X, and my opponent playing range Y which included the cards just shown down, whether 1) I will still be profitable (unexploitable robot type of idea) and 2) am I showing the most profit?"

Question #2 doesn't come up that much especially for some spots where I do not want regulars to adapt in a way in the future where they are essentially spiting me, but sometimes #2 does. Often #2 comes up where I will want to make only a very slight adjustment, eg. instead of jamming 88 ATs AJo, I will jam 88 ATs ATo KQs -- a 1% change.

Question #1 comes up all the time and requires deeper thought. Often a hand will be played out where I know the answer is false (that they are showing an advantage in EV proven through how the hand was played [and my updated bayesian belief etc.]) and now the question is how do I answer it?

Vs the best opponents there are no real answers, because much of what they are doing is basically an optimal response. To give a cludgey example, say I raise 100% utg (I don't.) The best players will not just 3bet bluff a lot, but maybe also 3bet small for value and 3bet jam for "value" (+EV jams) more, etc. In this sense there is no way I can adapt in that subgame (utg open, facing 3b) and show a profit, without actually changing my opening range. In a broader sense, many questions where my opponents are proving an advantage in various subgames are forcing me to reshape other areas of my game (in the parent game.)

Last edited by Alex Wice; 01-07-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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01-07-2013 , 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by urubu111
how many days without play poekr you plan? in all year, how many days no poker ?
I don't know, one day at a time. I think after the first SNE I will take a break. But to be honest, with the way that I have sculpted my life, not playing poker feels so empty, because I don't have anything I want to do. Sure, I can watch a movie, but I have no drive to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niveaformen
Pics of your setup?
Stack/tile tables?
Do you hope to become stars pro?
Sorry no pictures this update but maybe next week I can take some pictures. I stack. I don't think PS pro is on the horizon considering I am a very vocal opponent of PS sometimes, and I am not even sure if I want the job, but we'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Man2
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferra...ht_52709wt_958

Way sicker than an F50 and about a half million dollars cheaper
Thanks for the recommendation, haha. I was kind of joking about F50, don't think I'll be buying a car in the foreseeable future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPig
Do you feel you are more or less motivated by making this thread? Lots of people are rooting for you, which, in a way might feel like you have already acheived something within, and therefore, could be less incentive to get there. Probably hard to say but you seem like a self aware guy.

glgl. Cheering for ya'
Ya, I am probably more motivated, mainly because I don't want to **** up, haha. I don't know whether this thread is a net positive or negative, but my ego is my greatest asset so maybe it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoGGz
Just from experience I have noticed getting cold raises my anxiety, but I'd be interested in reading more about it. Do you off hand happen to have any articles about this?
I mean, a hotter room is going to improve circulation, which is good. If your hands or feet ever get cold while playing then that is pretty much a slam dunk reason why you would want to heat the room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protential
GL alex, if you are still in Toronto and want to meet up again let me know. I get back to canada in about a week, we could meet up in feb some time.
Thanks I'll see in Feb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syker12
Thread/Goals are insane. All the best in your grind.

I don't get how someone so clever is so socially ******ed though.
Upbringing? Don't know either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayneking7
Why block urself on sharkscope when ur clearly trying to get as much attention from this as possible?
I want support, not attention. Don't think I'll be blocking my scope anytime soon, atleast until the pressure dies down. Right now there is a lot of pressure for me to succeed and I've only been playing 6 days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTyman9
congrats! what're you gonna get from the shopping spree lol?
Good question, you tell me lol. I have no idea, if anyone wants to help out that would be nice.
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01-07-2013 , 11:25 AM
Use all the FPPs on whatever the cheapest thing is in the PS store, then next year they might change the super lame prize .
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01-07-2013 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomtom
+1
+2
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01-07-2013 , 11:31 AM
wouldn't it be max EV to spend the fpp on Gunnars and sell them after?
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01-07-2013 , 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal69
grats!

Out of interest, how much do you think it costs you on average per time-out in a $200 hyper? I have this issue with playing 20+ games since timebanks are so brutal and have to think its fairly disastrous to your ROI in the late stages at least for that game.
If I had to guess, and limiting this question to preflop timeouts, a hyper takes about 20 hands, so this would be in the area of $10 a hand probably. Of course, this isn't evenly distributed, you lose all of the money from sitouts at the end.

We can take a more nuanced approach in our estimate. In typical scenarios, we can think of the EVdiff of every hand we can be dealt. Then when we take the integral, we will find the answer. For example, sitting out on the CO at 40/80 when 6 players has 500 chips, you lose $6.56 or so. For a 10/20 spot, we can think of eg. a player is normally say 20bb/100 but instead loses the ante = -10/100. So that difference is 30bb/100 = $2.40 or so. So definitely all of the losses come right at the end and in the BB as expected.

Quote:
Do you have an expected ROI goal in mind? Rakeback comes to 1017200 if im correct so you expect to break even pre-rb? Seems a tough ask to actually break the million.

What do you think this does to your overall life expectancy? Cant be many comparable jobs. (Serious question)

Could you and mouldy and whoever else is doing mega numbers just all agree to unblock ss together as that will get you a tonne more attention/updates and what you lose in pressure you should gain in other areas? Would be great for the sng community as a whole too.
Breakeven pre-rb would be ideal but I am open to less. I don't really have a specific profit goal in mind, I would like to just play and be less focused on results and more about how to handle my life correctly. I'm starting out as a relative small-timer, some people have been playing hypers for years and have the experience and the bankroll.

As for SS, see above. Basically I am not open to the idea right now and probably won't consider it any time soon. I don't mind any negative consequences of this decision.

Also there gets to a certain level where the "community" is less relevant for the same reason really good pros don't/rarely post strategy or why players in that HU all star challenge didn't want HHs to be posted.

I really don't want to encourage other regs to start playing these games which are actually a lot harder than they think anyways. For example sometimes stars pros or other mtt pros or whatever sit 6 reg games because they don't know who the regs are, and even though they are the weakest player I am still net losing money compared to who would have sat if they didn't sit.

As for life expectancy, good question, but I am not sure. Life is short. There actually could be this weird effect where say this puts my LE at -0.9 years, but living the way I was puts it at -1.1 years, so it is net +LE.
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01-07-2013 , 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zima421
graph of the 2 day SN push would be cool to see.
I am surprised PS didn't run with this, they should have had a graph of my VPP count vs MO's because I am sure it was within 5k the entire way. Now it is too late but it would have been cool to see a graph of that 40h.
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01-07-2013 , 11:55 AM
Can't you select hands manually to see your winnings in HM2?
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01-07-2013 , 12:06 PM
I haven't caught up yet. Just to the point where I saw we have the same birthday and both eat lots of nam phrik. At the other end of the spectrum this challenge is one of the most interesting and crazy PGC threads I've seen while mine is possibly the most boring. Chok dee krap, Best of luck, and stay sane!
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01-07-2013 , 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall28
personally, i can barely get away with playing 12 profitably for too long. at 16 i start to get light headed after just 45 minutes. doing it for hours on end, days on end, i cant imagine what kind of stress that would put on my mind and body. i guess it's different playing cash vs sng's since u have simpler decisions and play mostly by a chart i assume?

...everybody saying they would give up their social life to accomplish this ... u guys have no idea. giving up a social life here is not the hard part, the hard part is keeping it together during the rough stretches when things aren't going your way and you have to keep playing in order to keep pace. add to that not talking to anybody and not having any diversity in your life to get your mind off of it when things aren't going well.

even the best players in the world question themselves during their downswings.
QFT (because most of this is true)

Only part I would disagree with is the 12 and 16 tabling. I can handle big stretches even when losing but it is hard and I have practiced (and will continue practicing.) I sort of make an analogy to a 4 minute mile. If you run the mile in 7 minutes and some of your friends run it in 6-8 minutes you might think a 4 minute mile is flat out impossible. Someone that has been practicing can run it in 6 minutes, then 5:30, then 5, etc.
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01-07-2013 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by All
50 tabling
This was just a one time thing, I don't think I will break 24 tables basically ever again. Mostly I plan to 12-20 table depending on conditions.
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01-07-2013 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aesthetics24
should probably head to 10NL cash and start from there Awice
true

Okay so first hand I posted a dime in the cutoff and it folds to me. I have 64o and I raise to 3 dimes because I already have 1 in there. Okay the BB called and it came KdQcJd. He checks which is what I expect and I cbet pot because there was a flop. Alright now the turn comes a Qd, right now I am putting him on a straight draw, he checks so I will check back and if the river misses his draw I will bet to take him off it. Okay so now the river is a 3s and he bets 2 dimes. I fold.

Howd I do?
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01-07-2013 , 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Wice
Okay the BB called and it came KdQcJd. He checks which is what I expect and I cbet pot because there was a flop.
I miss 2012
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01-07-2013 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stjean
This isn't 'sacrificing his social life' , its complete isolation under immense stress, pressure and frustration. For a full calendar year. It's not like he just has to hang out inside all day and not socialize. Even that would be extremely unhealthy. This is going to drastically affect him longterm mentally, it is a terrible idea and should obv just be done on a smaller scale for less money while still having some free time and to socialize. I am also forgetting that he said he has zero friends though, tough to imagine why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seabeast
so much this. i had a lockdown wtf-am-i-doing-with-my-life year in my mid 20s too, completely devoted myself to poker and turned 1k roll into playing HSNL by the end of the year. i get the spirit of what awice wants to do, shut out the world and make something of himself, wanting to make up for past laziness and use poker as the catalyst for the future pursuits etc. i was probably immersed in poker 80 hours a week that year between playing online, playing live (found that helped a lot to change it up and add a bit of social aspect) and reading/talking about poker. but it's so important to approach these things organically, playing only when you feel like it (even if you feel like it very often), genuinely learning and honing your craft, and basically just all around treating the game with respect.

this is just like trying to whore yourself out as a bot and deny the fact that you're human and your brain suffers in performance when under immense strain, pressure, and lack of enthusiasm towards the task it's performing. you're reprogamming yourself into a ****ty person and a ****ty poker player. you'd be so much better off with a goal like winning money for the year pre-RB and still getting 2-3 x SNE, or something along those lines. it's so important to respect yourself, respect what you're doing (rather than thinking of it as a cheap whore you're trying to exploit) and still have energy left to have some small semblance of freedom and a non-poker life. your performance is gonna suffer, you have a pretty significant risk of ruin, and even if you "succeed" and make the 8x you won't profit anywhere near the 1m, and you will be so alienated and dead inside by the end.
First, you guys are the posters in the top group in my mind that I respect the most.

There is a lot to get to, so I will just answer in point form.

0. I respect what you guys are saying and you are mostly right. But I feel that the path that you laid out is just mostly right, its not right for everyone. For me, I feel comfortable with the path I am on. Soon, that path will be right for me, but not just yet.

1. If I wasn't playing poker, I wouldn't go outside or talk to anyone, I would very likely just do some derp **** instead. Kirbynator can tell you, when I found some derp Diablo III exploit I literally woke up, played it 16 straight hours, slept, played 16 straight hours, slept, etc. hammering that exploit (something very repetitive that takes 1 minute) every day all day because I felt like I was winning. That's my personality. Realistically I would be playing games or watching people play games all day.

2. If you look at the VIP club leaderboard, there are plenty of people doing what I am doing. Why? It turns out that you can get something like 3k VPP an hour at 200s or whatever. If I did it correctly I could play something like 7h a day, or less, or whatever. The time factor isn't actually the problem, even if I was playing say 12h a day. Plenty of people work two jobs or three or whatever. The problem is stress from swings and self doubt, and being a good enough player to legit beat those stakes. Only a handful of people in the world right at this moment can beat these games.

3. I have a lot of enthusiasm for poker even when it's tough. I feel like you guys have an egocentric bias here, because eg. if 40 hours of poker a week is something very painful for you, you assume it must be for me too. I just came off the biggest downswing of my life and I played phenomenally yesterday for 12h small tabling even while losing big. I'm happy to play. I just wanna play, mang.

4. My performance does suffer a bit but I think for me specifically, these things are either something I understand or I don't. If I understand it then it will become memory and I will play the hand that way forever. If I don't then it is a leak and I will lose money in that spot. I don't think eg. my 8 tabling ability is better than my 12 tabling ability basically. For most people this isn't true though. There are some tilt control issues but I feel comfortable with my tilt control overall.

5. I have plenty of freedom even while getting 8x. I just don't have that much freedom if I intend to do 12x this Jan (which I am on pace for.) Depending on results (maybe I can handle running about 50 bad from today before I throw the towel) I may have to abandon 12x. But all of these things are sort of flex goals anyways, even 8x. The main thing for me is that I want to do all the things in point #6 + play poker min 40h a week so I can feel good about myself that I took the game seriously and made money before bots take over or whatever instead of jerking off.

6. I do respect myself, haha. That's why I eat well, exercise, wake up on time, sleep on time, take timeouts to relax, talk with people, play piano, etc.
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01-07-2013 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandmanNess
Why do people keep acting like this will turn him into some robot grinding for a million hours a day and that he will go crazy? He's already stated that the average time spent playing will be between 8-10 hours a day. Is that a super tough 8-10 hours? Sure. But it's not astronomical. The sanity risks will come with swings involved, not with the time spent time grinding, and that's indicative of hypers in general, not just this challenge. And he could absolutely have a social life while doing this if he wanted to, he just doesn't have one and doesn't want one.
Pretty much how I feel about this, thx
#MillionClub - It ain't cheese if it's less than a mil' Quote
01-07-2013 , 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timex
Maybe most people would collapse under this stress, but they clearly underestimate Alex.

One of my favorite Awice stories goes back to 2006 before either of us were that serious about poker. We were both in first year math at the University of Waterloo. Our school had advanced classes for calculus and algebra which we were both enrolled in- during these classes far less people surf the internet/**** around than in most university classes since they move pretty quickly and it was the first time in my life I ever found myself falling behind in a math class.

Back in these days, no one played more than like 8 tables- rainkhan had to send in a video of himself like 30 tabling since even poker stars didn't believe someone could play that many tables.

Anyways, in this lecture hall of ~80 students writing as quick as they can to keep up with the professor, theres Awice in the middle of the room- 24 tabling SNGs on his laptop, with his right hand, while practicing for the highest level of para para paradise(an arcade game like DDR where you wave your hands under sensors) with his left hand, all while absorbing more information in the lecture than me and most of the other students. I think his abilities for multi-tasking and making extremely quick decisions are almost second to none.

You got this Alex!
I don't remember this but it makes total sense. Haha I was so obnoxious back then. I guess I still am lols.

Thanks for the support~
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01-07-2013 , 12:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydeeze
Alex,

First off I want to say that I wish you all the good fortune in the world with this challenge. I have to agree with some of the others and say that I think it is insane and you are putting yourself under way too much pressure mentally and physically for the goal. With that being said, I am still rooting for you to make it happen.

A question I have though that I have not seen asked/answered in the thread yet (even though I haven't read the entire thread) is this. How are you going to remain a contributing part of the company that you work for during the next year? From what I can see, your ultimate goal is to make a million in order to help the business that you are in. But taking this much time to focus on poker, logically you will not have much time to devote to the development of the company. Just something I was wondering about and if it has already been asked/answered somewhere amongst the haters in the thread then just ignore me.

Thanks.
Good question. I answer emails and read our subreddit daily (its like google wave before they closed that down) to stay in touch with everyone. I offer general advice but I can't really code. If necessary I can write a function for something I am familiar with if no one else can efficiently (like server code eg.) I have quite a bit of free time to do this because I don't commute to work, don't waste time making food or doing chores, etc. All 4 other members are getting a phd at MIT but they are not done grad school yet so I envision most of the members will only be working part time on it mostly anyways.
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01-07-2013 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwyt84
what gaming company you wanna work for? any chance you will work for blizzard?

can i have a signed copy of your first ever game when it comes out. thanks
Don't want to work for any company, unless I could get both autonomy and %ownership.

The first is important because I want to do what I am good at (which is most efficient anyways for a company setting because 1. I'm good at it and 2. I probably like it so I will do it more instead of wasting time while doing it) instead of what I have to do / what someone tells me to do.

The second is important because profit in business is mostly power-law, which means that the best players make way more money than the 5th best players or whatever. This makes "skill" (however you define it) an extremely dominant factor. If I am bringing a lot of skill to a company I want to get a piece of the pie too. I think basically all of the members of our company feel the same way too, as they are all extremely skilled individuals.

I (we) don't intend any physical copy of the game.
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