I enjoyed reading this thread, which was one the best O8 threads recently.

There is one thing I might have missed.

I'm not sure why you are grinding at O8 micros. I myself am a terrible micro fish at 10PLO8, winning 5 days, losing all in one day, again and again. However, you are a poker pro. It seems to me that you might be wasting your time in this game, which I love to play in my spare time. Isn't there def more money in NLH or Omaha hi?

Thx! glad you enjoyed.

Yeah, def more money in PLO/NLH. I don't expect to making tons of money by playing PLO8. It is more for a challenge of learning something completely new. As I've progressed, I've found the game to be quite fun. Lowish variance, complex game, and a lot of grey area on 'optimal play'. I love money, but I don't need boatloads to survive. ~$50/hr tax free would be wonderful. I think this is possible as a top tier PLO8 player.

Also, I play NHL 20-30hours/wk. It's sort of boring/repetitive. I get myself into an interesting situation maybe once an hour... the rest is just sitting at the table, watching people play.

I want to learn PLO too. Maybe in a few months.

In the distant future I would like to be a well-rounded poker player. A respected 8game player would be great.

So, playing good.. running bad.

Okay, so owning PLO25 has got my full attention in life. Having difficulty playing NLH live because I want to grind the **** out of PLO25 and crushhhh.

So, a few hands that I am unsure on. One I posted for analysis on 2+2. reviews on my play were quite mixed. Two players I know to be good PLO8 players (guma/buzz) felt my line was good, many of the less experienced posters had issues with it.

I marked about 40 hands that I felt I played sub-optimally. I marked about 10 that I thought I played very well. I shall post a few here for feedback and to retrace my thought process;

Hand1; I think I missed value on this hand. No info on villain, random 25plo8 donk. My questionable play is on the river.

Bodog - $0.25 PL Hi/Lo (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $29.05
SB: $22.40
Hero (BB): $27.24
UTG: $24.25
MP: $69.40
CO: $14.65

SB posts SB $0.10, Hero posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has A 8 K 8

fold, MP raises to $0.50, fold, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.40, Hero calls $0.25

Flop: ($2.00, 4 players) J J 8
SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, MP calls $1.50, fold, SB calls $1.50

Turn: ($6.50, 3 players) 5
SB checks, Hero bets $4.87, fold, SB calls $4.87

River: ($16.24, 2 players) K
SB checks, Hero checks

So, flop c/c is almost always a Jx hand. Turn is a b/f for me. I find FH normally pumps up the turn for value. He flats so I still put him on jxxx. Now the river comes and he checks. Is he ever checking a FH here? Probably not. I checked but I should have bet ~$5-7. The issue is once I bet, can I ever fold? On river effective stacks are 15.33, and pot is 16.24. If I b/f $6 I have to be sure villain isn't bluff/psycho raising worse more than 24% of the time. This seems like a reasonable assumption given his c/c c/c check line. Next time a situation like this arises, a value bet is in order.

Hand2; Villain is something crazy like 70/30, but only over a sample of 11 hands.
Bodog - $0.25 PL Hi/Lo (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $23.32
UTG: $12.70
Hero (MP): $34.99
CO: $13.63
BTN: $63.28
SB: $21.30

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has A 4 A 5

fold, Hero raises to $0.85, fold, BTN calls $0.85, SB calls $0.75, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($3.40, 4 players) 2 K K
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $1.70, fold, SB calls $1.70, fold

Turn: ($6.80, 2 players) 3
SB checks, Hero bets $3.50, SB calls $3.50

River: ($13.80, 2 players) T
SB bets $13.80, fold

Okay, so flop bet sizing is probably off. I'm not sure why I bet 1/2 pot. The only things calling me on the flop are FDs and Kx, maybe the odd QQxx/JJxx hand. I have blockers to the flush, and and overpair. If someone has a FD I can get a 3/4psb for value. If someone has a Kx I have outs. I should be betting 3/4 - pot on this flop.

Turn is a great card as it gives me the NLD. I'm betting for value here, but I can probably get more value from this 70/30 with any of his c/c range OTF. Is there an argument for checking here, or is this a must bet turn?

The river is a terrible card. Brings the flush, and no low. He donks out pot. In my mind this is a clear fold.

Hand3:
This hand I have 2 villains in CO/BTN with very high PFRs (over 25). The table is fishy in general.
Bodog - $0.25 PL Hi/Lo (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $24.05
BB: $29.79
Hero (UTG): $29.20
MP: $45.81
CO: $46.21
BTN: $37.19

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero has A J 2 T

Hero calls $0.25, MP raises to $1.00, CO calls $1.00, fold, SB calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75, Hero raises to $6.00, MP calls $5.00, CO calls $5.00, fold, fold

Flop: ($20.00, 3 players) 7 7 K
Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks

Turn: ($20.00, 3 players) K
Hero bets $20.00, fold, fold

My preflop intention is to l/r the CO or BTN. This is exactly what happens, and we get a massive pot 3 ways and I almost certainly have a equity edge.

Flop is pretty crappy. Not too many 7xxx hands out there, maybe Kxxx and FD. Both villains are aggro, so I expect that Kxxx or FD, and often 7xxx to bet the flop. it checks around.

Turn is a K. it checks to me. I am fairly certain there are no Kxxx hands out there, and rarely a FD, so I bet pot (my stack is just over pot) This has to work just over 50% to be profitable. I think I fold out both players 80%+ of the time here, so its perfecto.

Hand 1 there is value in betting but sometimes I check just to see the hand, and you have to fold if you get raised.

Hand 2 bet sizing is debatable but I think your line and reasoning are fine. Checking the flop in position is an option.

Hand 3 your hand isn't super strong pre flop and it often leads to a situation like this with many players in a big pot. I like it if it makes your opponents likely to make mistakes and you can exclude premium hands from their ranges when they don't try to get all-in pre flop. It's a high variance play for sure. Board ran out well for you (or bad for everyone) and they gave you the chance to take it, so obviously a good result for you. It's harder when you make a medium-strength hand and you're facing multi-way action. You do hit a lot of flops and usually just go with it when you have any kind of draw or top pair or pair+backdoor, and you can fold if you miss completely and someone else bets.

Beard update: Beard is nasty.

Trying to get a beard trimmer to fix it up. Min price I can find is $100 for a decent one. Need to make more moneyz.

Played a super spew session on bodog yesterday while ago. Played 2-3 big pots where I called off a pot sized bet on the river with the nuts in one direction and weak in the other and got quartered. Not going to bother analyzing, was a super spew for 1 BI of -EV.

You can see the impact on my graph;



WR on bodog is uber low.

ongame graph;



Overall, happy with my game. I'm around 12bb/100 right now. Shooting to beat 25PLO8 for 15BB/100 over 10k hands.

Won my first session out of 6 on Pokerstars today. The .05/.10 runs like the .10/.25 on bodog and ongame. Going to stick at 10PLO8 on PS because of BR issues. Only for $50. Once my BR is $125+ ill move up on stars. Will continue grinding 25PLO8 via ongame/bodog.

I'm lol crushing 25 PLO8. I am running near EV and current stats are;

Hands: 5200
Profit: $464.50
BB/100: 16
Hourly around $15/hr

Halfway to 10k babyy!!

Some PLO8 hands for analysis;

Hand 1: Villain is a reg. 18/9, aggro. river agg factor is 3.27, agg freq is 54.
OnGame - $0.25 PL Hi/Lo - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $24.50
Hero (MP): $48.55
CO: $43.48
BTN: $44.56
SB: $55.44
BB: $26.43

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.50) Hero has A 2 3 8

UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, CO calls $1.25, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls $1.00

Flop: ($4.25, 3 players) 9 K 2
UTG checks, Hero bets $3.25, fold, UTG calls $3.25

Turn: ($10.75, 2 players) 7
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($10.75, 2 players) Q
UTG bets $8.00, Hero raises to $16.00, fold

Villain is def capable of thinking. For sure puts me on busted low draw on river given how action went. He has busted FDs or weak pairs in his range. Would probably check with 2pair. I figure the river bluff works more than 50% of the time here, so is profitable.


Hand2: Villain is tight/passive pre-- 16/6. cont bet 70%, 1.8agg fac

OnGame - $0.25 PL Hi/Lo - Omaha - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $74.27
CO: $24.75
BTN: $36.87
Hero (SB): $52.21
BB: $38.87

Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.50) Hero has A 4 T T

UTG calls $0.25, fold, BTN raises to $1.25, Hero calls $1.00, fold, fold

Flop: ($3.00, 2 players) 6 2 9
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.25, Hero raises to $6.00, fold

When he raises his range consists mostly of A2** and AA** hands. On the flop I figure I'm in a wa/wb situation and know he folds A2BB and A25X+. I have the ace blocker, so I figure his range consists mostly of A2** hands. My thinking was I raise here and give up on other streets unless a 10 or 3 falls.

Hand3:

This hand had me stumped. Villain is the same from Hand 1. Haven't seen a l/r from him before. My image is pretty aggro, I'm 23/13 at 6max/fr mix. at 6max probably closer to 25/16, and I raise often in LP.

OnGame - $0.25 PL Hi/Lo - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $96.26
SB: $25.68
BB: $28.65
UTG: $20.00
MP: $30.69
CO: $29.36

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: ($0.50) Hero has 2 A 9 Q

fold, fold, CO calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, fold, fold, CO raises to $4.25, Hero calls $3.00

Flop: ($9.00, 2 players) 5 7 T
CO bets $7.00, Hero calls $7.00

Turn: ($23.00, 2 players) 7
CO bets $18.11 and is all-in, fold

What should I do here? Is this a jam preflop? If hes slowplaying a AA2* hand as often as he has trash, I am even money. Table dynamics are that I'm running over, getting premiums and opening a lot. This hand is probably in the top 25% of my btn opening range.

I have many more hands. Might post a few of the most controversial in the Omaha/8 section for review.

Hand 1, hard to say what's best here. Try to pick up bet sizing tells. I suspect your river action sample size is insignificant. If the guy puts you on a missed draw, why is he betting (and a large size)? This is where your image determines what the correct action is.

Hand 2 I don't like raising because you can't call a reraise and there are a lot of hands that have high equity on the flop (a3 plus anything, flush draws) but lose equity on many turn cards, and a lot of continuation bets will slow down on turns. So I would call on the flop, and bet on a lot of turns. And you're deep, so you can bet turn and river if needed.

Hand 3 looks fine. You're behind most 3-bets, but you have position and enough chips to use it. On this flop you have a lot of backdoor draws to make a high hand, so you can call and get it in if the turn is a red low card or a red jack. Queen or king of hearts are good enough as well, and I'll include the 5h and Th giving you 14 'good' turn cards plus 8 more that give you nut low with not much else (some freeroll possibility with a black 8). Well played.

Most people won't limp-three-bet junk hands. The plan here is to call and evaluate your equity on the flop. Most of the time you can raise or fold on the flop. You want to make two pair or better, a made nut low (usually with a backdoor draw at least), or a combo draw or pair with a draw. This kind of flop is one of the few textures where you can call correctly and raising is bad.

Hand 1 I wasn't sure the correct action.. It was intuition that made me raise. So perhaps it was my image/table dynamics that contributed to this raise. Probably a pretty spewy hand in a vacuum.

Okay, for hand 2, if hes only opening 6% of hands, isn't that only A2xx/AAxx ? I suppose he could also have a lot of A23 or a2cc that are def calling a raise or re-raising. What turns would I be looking to bet? any non low?

I doubt that 6% range for all positions is the same range as a button raise with one limper. Anyway, raising the flop won't make a stronger hand fold, and if you do get called your hand is difficult to play profitably, and on this texture it makes your hand look like a combo draw more than anything else. I don't mind checking the next two streets against a passive opponent, and you can lead the turn or check raise on a 3, high cards, sometimes on a 9 or a 6, or you can check and call and decide on the river. A lot of your options can be refined or expanded by adjusting to the opponent's specific tendencies as the PFR.

Played a 500 hand session this afternoon. Ran 3 BIs over EV, and profited $100.

I'm almost finished $.10/.25 PLO8. I'm running well and playing good. Running around 13BB/100 over 8k hands. 2k hands to go at .1/.25 until I am finished my challenge.

I still feel new to PLO8. I feel I could breakeven at .50/1. Right now I think I came improve my game the most by playing heads-up/sngs/mtts on stars. sngs/mtts should improve my knowledge of equity and will help me play better against short stacks at FR. Heads-up is crucial for game play in general, and will help me feel confident starting tables at higher limits in the future.

As of now my 6max/FR game is decent, but will certainly need work. PLO8 is a complex game and I feel the learning curve is longer and steeper than hold'em.

Hey, reading your thread got me interested in playing a little 6max PLO8 again - and I've really enjoyed it. Im sure I'm playing too many hands but its a great game for action!

If your playing for action, who cares how many hands you play!

The game is fun, and I respect/encourage anyone to play it for fun, and only fun.

You gave me my first laugh of the day! Of course your going to encourage people to play a game your massively +EV in!

useless graph w/o blue line

Hi all, so I completed my challenge.

Results:
Took 60 days to beat the micros to my satisfaction.
Played 188 hours.
I have a nasty beard. (shaving tomorrow, beard jokes/comments daily)
PLO8 $.02/.05
hands: 6195
profit: $77.72 (bonus/rb excluded)
BB/100: 25.09

PLO8 $.05/.10
hands: ~5khands
Total: $94.54,
BB/100:~19bb/100

PLO8 $.10/.25
hands: 10,582
Total: $343.96
BB/100: 7.91

I will be continuing to improve at 25PLO8 and taking shots at 50PLO8 on ongame/bodog.

Going to be playing mtts/sngs on stars.

Will likely start up another (third) PG&C thread in the future!

Thanks all for feedback/support

Well done - put up a link to your new thread when you set it up!

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/174/poker-goals-challenges/live-grind-30-000-over-1-000-hours-i-quit-lets-do-itt-1125158/