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Life of a SNG Grinder Life of a SNG Grinder

07-06-2010 , 07:15 PM
Well, my first night playing on ftp went pretty bad. I wasn't losing EVwise, it was a combination of stupid hands/spots and then not winning key races on the FT or F2T's. Most of it was completely standard spots, such as losing with AK to 1010 getting it in on a AK10 flop, or losing AA to 88 on an 8 high flop, but at least I feel as though im playing fine.

JSH1991 33 -$2 $3 -30% -$54 Tilt N/A FullTilt 7/1/2010 7/6/2010 E45-180 SNG Only

I have decided I will be loading my 45/90s til about 1 am my time, as that is when they start filling really really slowly; and I will then switch to super turbo 9 mans for the rest of the night. I'm starting out with the $2s to make sure I'm playing optimally over about 500 games, then ill move up to the $5s. I havent played any of these in a long time, but I did play a few thousand on my old ftp account over about an 8 day period.

Joshua Hoesel Visit my Blog @ SharkScopers.com 2,085 $0 $3 6% $363 - N/A FullTilt E9-9 Spd=ST Rakeback27 SNG Only

I'm taking tonight off as I didnt get up til 5pm tonight, and I'm not feeling like grinding today, so I'm gonna go hang out at a buddy's house and then come back and maybe play a few mtts for turbo night on stars, then prolly grind some super turbos.


Heres a screenshot of my super turbo HEM graph from last night along with my SS line, pretty funny imo....definitely displays the short term variance of these lolz.

JSH1991 17 $0 $2 -14% -$5 - N/A FullTilt E9-9 Spd=ST Rakeback27 SNG Only x



FTP Br: 911.88
PS Br: 485.13
Ftps: 4580.17
Investments: $400+
07-06-2010 , 11:52 PM
**** superturbos

Bet my buddy $200 id never play one again over a 6 month period (so basically til the end of the yr)

07-07-2010 , 10:19 AM
Well, I didnt get in much volume last night at 45/90s on ftp, but hopefully tonight Ill get in a good proper sesh. I played some regular turbo 9s on ftp (not super turbos) and I think ill stick to 9 tabling them when im not running 45/90s. I have to have something for late at night since the 45/90s simply dont fill fast enough. Once I move up to the $12s+, ill be happy with a 2% roi just to add in volume and accumulate $'s in RB for during these off times. I ran something like 18 BI's under ev in 45 supers played which is pretty absurd, and thats why I'm gonna be done with them; I don't handle stuff like that well .

Today I got up early and went out to breakfast with a few friends at a local restaurant which was fun, and I'm just getting back and will most likely be playing just 9s in the morning as im playing a few mtts on stars around noontime and getting lunch delivered to me at like 1 (hidden barg about a free lunch imo).

I've made some investments on PTP, CMU and I should have some $'s returning here from investments in the marketplace; so hopefully they turn out well. I've added it up to having about $500 invested atm.

I'm gonna end this now; ill give a BR update with SS stats and a HEM graph later tonight after I play
07-08-2010 , 06:34 PM
Well I think I've finally figured out what I want to do when not playing mtt-sngs and mtts, and its cash games. I'm actually going to be working on improving my game, and im getting free coaching/sweating from my buddy whose a 3.5+ bb/100 winner at 200nl FR. I'm eventually thinking that I'll only be playing cash as I can make a good amount in RB per week. I dont think we'll have to worry about me playing only cash for a while as im still working on my game, but im doing decent so far in 25nl over a few thousand hands (which is nothing). My buddy has mainly gotten me to open up so im becoming one of the regs that are hard to play against, cuz my 3b and 4b %s include bluffs and arent just literally 99+, ak (3b) and QQ+ and sometimes AK (4b) which is what a lot of the regs run at.

I'm going to a buddies house tonight to play some cod and to relax and watch burn notice, if I'm still not passed out (havent slept in >24 hrs already atm), then i might put in a short sesh.

Heres an update and then a graph for cash games:

JSH1991 96 $0 $3 9% $0 - N/A FullTilt E9-90 Rakeback27 x



FTP roll: 1311.84
Stars+Investments: $500ish
07-10-2010 , 09:41 PM
Alright, time to do a short update. I have been continuing to play cash games on ftp and have done decently at 25nl over a short sample (ill post the giraffe). I was 38/38 in the daily double A on ftp last night, and i came back from a 4 bb stack to take 6th for about $450, lost a pot for a HU stack 5 handed but not much I can do about it. I shot took some 50nl last night and ran pretty bad, im easily rolled for shottaking it right now and im gonna play a little bit more of it tonight probably and see how it goes (ill post that giraffe too).

I have just finished getting a backing deal for 45/180s on stars. It's a 2k contract to start for 2/3r/7/12 180s and 6/12 45s to be added in at night. The bakcer has the option to renew a 3k contract at the end of the first 2k. I will also be most likely finishing a deal for me to get backed on ftp for 45/90s and mtts; I sent in 6 apps and got 5 responses with interest and 1 that said they are still working on finishing looking through apps. Gonna get started on my 2k games tonight and hoping to run good.

I'm running a big mtt sched on ftp tomorrow as well as I will be playing the mil on stars and the TLB 20k freeroll on stars that I got a ticket for. Basically playing every $5-$26 guarentee on ftp from 11am-midnight with the 3rs, 1r, $1 10k added and I will be trying to sattie into the sunday brawl and the sunday 750k.

Besides that not much has been going on, I have been enjoying learning cash games and I hope to be able to continue that even with the fact of having 2 sng contracts with the ftp sng contract most likely having MTTs involved with it.

Here's some giraffes to look at.







Josh
07-11-2010 , 07:56 AM
Unfortunately I started off terribly on my stake going 0/23 on a sesh of 180s. I won 0 meaningful races and it was overall just terribad; it started out bad too so i just stopped TN wen i was on game 23.

I did do very well in a couple short seshes of 25nl and made about $125 in 1100 hands which was nice. I'm feeling more and more comfy in cash and more confident in my game.

I have finalized my sched for tomorrow and I'm excited at running so many mtts since i normally dont play mtts much. I am fully backed for all of this obv.

FTP:
3r 14.5k
11 super stack 10k
75 22.5k 6max
256 sunday brawl
26 42k
15 super turbo
26 33k KO
1r 10k
11 10k
75 24k
6 EDA
6 EDB
22 double deuce
11 6max cashout 4k
26 rush 6max 10k
15 super turbo 6max 15k
216 750k
11 superstack 15k
26 35k
1 10k
3r 10.5k
12 DDA
12 DDB
11 MM rush

Stars:
20k TLB June Freeroll
215 sunday mil

Time to go to church and then get on the grind (obviously have played all night and not sleeping before 13+ hr mtt sesh)

Josh
07-11-2010 , 10:18 AM
sick man, gl today, hopefully you can take down one of those!!
07-11-2010 , 12:50 PM
yeah good luck in the multi's...itd be nice to take one down...
07-11-2010 , 01:35 PM
solid results so far! my only advice would be to stick to one game and continue to improve. I feel as though early on in learning something new you're doing yourself more of a disservice by splitting your time playing between MTT's and cash. Just increase the volume on one or the other instead of splitting it.

I think I'm going to take it on a month to month basis. Last month and this month I've been playing almost entirely cash games (if I keep -crushing- like I have been this week I may just continue into next month); next month I'll reevaluate and determine if I want to commit myself to SNGs for the month.

One of my favorite sayings is "go big or go home"; and I tend to apply this to the things I spend my time on in life. If I'm going to do something I don't want to waste time doing it half-heartedly: I commit to it. Not saying you don't have commitment, just offering a perspective on splitting your time playing two vastly different games.
07-11-2010 , 01:59 PM
its just that im staked for cash and now im backed for sngs; i dont have much of a choice atm. And fwiw, im a big winner at all. One of the highest roi for my level of sngs and ive crushed 25nl so far and i feel really good about my game
07-11-2010 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdawg91
its just that im staked for cash and now im backed for sngs; i dont have much of a choice atm. And fwiw, im a big winner at all. One of the highest roi for my level of sngs and ive crushed 25nl so far and i feel really good about my game
what's your overall sample size at 25NL?
07-11-2010 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yomatta
what's your overall sample size at 25NL?
not enough yet, hence working on it
07-11-2010 , 05:13 PM
Love ya bro but drop the sunday mil brawl and 50$+ buyins so you can build a roll not take shots on 1000:1 odd tournys :-P Especially when you can add that to your cash roll and move up sooner


altho didnt read if u were backed so if you are go ship something FFS
07-12-2010 , 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InFlamesWeTrust
Love ya bro but drop the sunday mil brawl and 50$+ buyins so you can build a roll not take shots on 1000:1 odd tournys :-P Especially when you can add that to your cash roll and move up sooner


altho didnt read if u were backed so if you are go ship something FFS
yea i was backed andy .

Well, the tourneys didnt go to great, i bubbled a bunch of tourneys including the $11 superstack for a top 10 stack overall 15 from the money AA<QQ AIPF, turn Q, the sunday brawl i pay ur rent binked a 3 outer river on me for a 32k stack at 170/340/25 about 3 hrs in, and I lost a 70/30 about 3 hrs into the 750k. Oh and i got it in on a QA10 flop in the mil with 10 10 and lost to KJ. I had a few mincashes but i still lost >600 on the mtt sesh.

This week is rush week on FTP and Im looking to get at least a $125 bonus, would like to get 1k points all 7 days but that might be tough for me to do at 25nl while trying to put in good volume on stars for sngs. So far today I've put in about 2000 hands and im up 2 BIs and ive got 250ish rush points.

Other than that nothing new is up; I might be going to go hang out with a few friends today or tomorrow, not sure yet. Oh, i did get a new avatar on 2p2, what movie is that clip from? I cant remember.

Here's my full 25nl graph, only have 6k hands but have done well, hoping to improve more and more.

07-12-2010 , 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdawg91
Oh, i did get a new avatar on 2p2, what movie is that clip from? I cant remember.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790623/
07-12-2010 , 10:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthStrom
ahh thats right. Thx
07-12-2010 , 11:26 AM
I enjoy reading your updates mate, keep it up
07-12-2010 , 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iznogoud1
I enjoy reading your updates mate, keep it up
tyvm, glad you like it; im hoping im not too boring for some of you because i literally do nothing lol.

I was going through some of my cash game hands and I found a few good ones that im gonna post along with my thought process. But first im gonna go through some basic cash game thoughts/ideas/stats etc of mine (this could get tl;dr, but i guarentee it wont be a terrible thing to read).

The thing that my buddy/coach has taught me that is most important imo to long term profit is to be a pain in the ass reg, and one that is hard to play against. For you cash regs out there (FR), you know that at all stakes, 10nl-1knl, no less than 75% of the regs are between a 5/5/2.5% 3b/1.5% 4b and 10/10/3% 3b/2% 4b....aka huuuuge nits that literally have it every time (3% 3b is 99+, AK). These regs are easy to play against, and you can avoid them for the most part and just assume when they 3b or play back at you, that they have it. Then you get to the rest of the regs that play anything from a 12/10/3.5% to 20/17/5-7% and these players are tougher to play against as they actually have bluffs in their range. Now, that doesnt mean they are good players, as some/most of them have either obvious betting tells, or they just basically tell you what they have by the turn, but they are more difficult to play against than the nitty reg.

For those of you that talk to me on skype, you know that I'm on the non nitty side , and what some might call FPS, turns into genius in the long run (like imfromsweden if you've seen his thread in this forum...very creative). Overall at 25nl, my line is 17/14/7.5%3b/3.9% 4b which shows that I am fairly active for a reg, and that I have bluffs in my range, therefore making me tougher to play against....plus the fact that postflop I can put you in ****ty spots that the avg reg wont have in their arsenal (im a pain i know ).

I'm not sure what im trying to get at here, I guess this is just an inside look at me and my strat along with my thoughts on the games overall? lolol, i guess we'll say that; now on to the hands.

Hand 1: The villian in this hand runs a 20/15/6.8% 3b and was not a reg, but I had 205 hands on him which is a decent sample for micro stakes cash in which you're going to be playing with tons of different people all the time. Now for being a random, he looks like he has a clue on what he's doing as his HEM line indicates, and the last 3 times I had raised OTB to him, he had 3b, so in this instance, I have decided that I'm tired of raise/folding to him, and I decide to 4b from IP on him. He flats, and as you see, I end up getting it in with the nuts on him and take down the pot, but the point is that I'm capable of making a play.

Note on this hand as I saw 2 things wrong with it as I posted it. First of all my 4b is a little to small; I literally clicked it back to $5, I would normally be betting $5.25-$5.75 which is only a slight difference, but definitely $5 is a mistake. The 2nd thing that was wrong is that I bet too small on the flop, needs to be a little over 1/2 the pot imo. And the betsizing on the turn is perfect for what he has behind him, as it allows him to bluff with good FE.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $27.85
BB: $32.65
UTG: $38.32
UTG+1: $26.05
MP1: $25.00
MP2: $24.75
CO: $36.87
Hero (BTN): $60.08

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with 9 6
5 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, BB raises to $3, Hero raises to $5, BB calls $2

Flop: ($10.10) 8 7 A (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4.50, BB calls $4.50

Turn: ($19.10) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB raises to $23.15 all in, Hero calls $15.15

River: ($65.40) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $65.40
BB shows A 5 (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
Hero shows 9 6 (a straight, Nine high)
Hero wins $62.40
(Rake: $3.00)


Hand 2: This hand is just an example of me being able to recognize a 4b squeeze spot. The original raiser utg is a 35/25 fish and the 3ber is also a fish who hasnt a clue, and the flatter behind is a tight reg (9/4/2%3b over 300 hands), so right away I know he has a small pair about 99.5% of the time and is simply setmining and is no threat once I squeeze and the other flatters are all fish so i auto assume that they fold as well. It comes down to the original minraiser utg and the 3b player on having hands. I assume that about 60% of the time I just take it down, 30% of the time I get a flat from MP2, and 10% that I get 5b jammed on by either of them. If i get flatted, I am planning on jamming most flops (there are some i just shut down on) and this flop is a good one to jam as neither an ace flopped (I'd think that if he had AK i get the pile most times, but still) and if he's flatting to setmine, that is an awesome board for me and calling with anything less than KK is going to be tough if he has a pair.

Notice too that I set my 4b up so that if I was flatted I'm not making it so that the villian is priced to call me on the flop, and I'm also not overjamming the flop which always looks suspicious. Another thing to notice is that I am only making a play on this when the villians are fullstacked...it becomes where its not even profitable to make plays like this on shorties; being aware of stack sizes is crucial.

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $8.63
SB: $30.16
Hero (BB): $25.35
UTG: $23.77
UTG+1: $25.65
MP1: $8.75
MP2: $26.56
CO: $6.55

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with T J
UTG raises to $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 raises to $1.50, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.50, SB calls $1.40, Hero raises to $7.75, 2 folds, MP2 calls $6.25, 2 folds

Flop: ($19.50) 9 2 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $17.60 all in, MP2 folds

Final Pot: $19.50
Hero wins $18.53
(Rake: $0.97)


Hand 3: This hand is being played against a 15/14 reg who has made a play on me before leading on the river with a missed draw in which I called with bottom set and I obviously noted him and put that HH in my note on him. This is a pretty std hand up to the river, as i raised pre, he flatted, i cbet and double barreled (obv sometimes I check back, but I mix up my game a ton), but now all of the sudden he leads the river for about 2/3 pot. Now, on this board one would never think he would play a set like this, or even a top pair hand. So that leaves him totally owning me (maybe 10% of the time?) and him just having air, so I put in a raise and the villian snap folds.

This hand is just an example of what i was saying earlier; good players can put the villian in ****ty spots on the river...which is what my buddy/coach is working on with me .

Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $24.65
Hero (BTN): $28.70
SB: $62.67
BB: $34.82
UTG: $9.42
UTG+1: $11.25
UTG+2: $25.00
MP1: $25.82
MP2: $5.00

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with T K
6 folds, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.10) 6 Q 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.15, BB calls $1.15

Turn: ($4.40) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.25, BB calls $2.25

River: ($8.90) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $5.50, Hero raises to $20.75, BB folds

Final Pot: $19.90
Hero wins $18.91
(Rake: $0.99)



Alright, now that we've looked at some cool hands, lets just look at pure absurdity


Hand 4: Note right off the bat on this hand that I thought i was OTB and he was in the SB, as my play is just idiotic with me being on the CO and him OTB.

K so this is a 17/12/9%3b/3% 4b reg and theyve 5b me before and I folded. I put his 5b range on KK+ and QQ and AK once in a while in a bluff 5b range, and Im thinking that im flatting IP on him here and am gonna try to outplay him on the flop. So the flop comes out A22 which is actually a good board for me to put him on a hand. For one, its hard mathematically for him to have AA since an ace flopped, but also, if he has AA, hes checking back this board every single time. The only time he ever cbets is when he has AK which is in a small % of 5b bluffs, and in that case he most likely is going to overjam. So, when he bets, I am assuming that every single time its a bluff and he has between JJ-KK. Another thing was his betsizing; that almost confirmed to me that it was a bluff, so I decide to make a play and instead of shoving for like $31ish I just minraise. Villain snap folds and i, unfortunately, in the heat of the moment show my hand. The villian snap says:
na980: idiot animal
JSH1991: put that in ur notebook



Full Tilt Poker $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $34.65
Hero (CO): $44.34
BTN: $53.47
SB: $25.45
BB: $8.75
UTG: $10.26
UTG+1: $26.76
UTG+2: $10.47
MP1: $5.30

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with T 9
5 folds, Hero raises to $1, BTN raises to $3.25, 2 folds, Hero requests TIME, Hero raises to $5.75, BTN raises to $12, Hero requests TIME, Hero calls $6.25

Flop: ($24.35) 2 A 2 (2 players)
Hero requests TIME, Hero checks, BTN bets $7.68, Hero raises to $15.36, BTN requests TIME, BTN folds

Final Pot: $39.71
Hero shows T 9 (a pair of Twos)
Hero wins $37.73
(Rake: $1.98)

I shouldn't have shown the hand though; its better to keep owning the player again and again, but i got caught up in the moment.

Well, thats it for now, I'll try to continue to post some of my HH's and my thought processes in cash hands.

Josh
07-12-2010 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdawg91
na980: idiot animal
JSH1991: put that in ur notebook
Dude, I love your thought process. Will have to pick your brain more on Skype if I ever get back into cash games. LOVE the plays. Keep this **** coming, I almost fell out of my chair from the above comment. Nice show btw, sometimes ya just gotta **** with their heads.
07-12-2010 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdawg91

I have never used a HUD to play with, but I am looking at the tourney HUD atm tonight and I will be working on it just to help with calling ranges on regs and for literally just about nothing else.

My ABI as you can see was $5.86 and my ROI 28.7% and my hourly $25.61 (real numbers), and with all in ev included it would be 38.6% and my hourly 34.43...I ran $44.09 under ev, or about 7.5 BI's under EV tonight.
Nice updates, I'll def be following you. Where did you get your EV figures, is there a luck factor calculated in HEM? I thought there was a software that calculated luck factor, but mostly for SNGs, not for MTTs. Thanks and good luck.
07-12-2010 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAEVentures
Dude, I love your thought process. Will have to pick your brain more on Skype if I ever get back into cash games. LOVE the plays. Keep this **** coming, I almost fell out of my chair from the above comment. Nice show btw, sometimes ya just gotta **** with their heads.
yep def, and yea, that hand and the chat was lolworthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedarknight
Nice updates, I'll def be following you. Where did you get your EV figures, is there a luck factor calculated in HEM? I thought there was a software that calculated luck factor, but mostly for SNGs, not for MTTs. Thanks and good luck.
thx and yea, just in hem you can chart your all in ev compared to the $'s you made
07-12-2010 , 08:21 PM
just **** off, it just isnt ending in sngs/mtts. For the overall CL near the money of the 75 40k

Full Tilt Poker Game #22271842151: $40,000 Rush Guarantee (169752954), Table 99 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:19:02 ET - 2010/07/12
Seat 1: Wonderfulsmellz (7,199)
Seat 2: JSH1991 (22,223)
Seat 3: BallaHolic952 (14,364)
Seat 4: AustinKay7 (10,027)
Seat 5: Macabee1 (5,111)
Seat 6: ricknyan (25,186)
Seat 7: Random Donkey (15,528)
Seat 8: Tyren0 (6,044)
Seat 9: threetoos (20,396)
Wonderfulsmellz antes 25
JSH1991 antes 25
BallaHolic952 antes 25
AustinKay7 antes 25
Macabee1 antes 25
ricknyan antes 25
Random Donkey antes 25
Tyren0 antes 25
threetoos antes 25
JSH1991 posts the small blind of 120
BallaHolic952 posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to JSH1991 [As Ac]
AustinKay7 folds
Macabee1 folds
ricknyan raises to 720
Random Donkey folds
Tyren0 folds
threetoos folds
Wonderfulsmellz folds
JSH1991 has 15 seconds left to act
JSH1991 raises to 2,500
BallaHolic952 folds
ricknyan raises to 7,965
JSH1991 raises to 22,198, and is all in
ricknyan calls 14,233
JSH1991 shows [As Ac]
ricknyan shows [Kh Kc]
*** FLOP *** [Jd Ts Ah]
*** TURN *** [Jd Ts Ah] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [Jd Ts Ah 2s] [Qd]
JSH1991 shows three of a kind, Aces
ricknyan shows a straight, Ace high
ricknyan wins the pot (44,861) with a straight, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 44,861 | Rake 0
Board: [Jd Ts Ah 2s Qd]
Seat 1: Wonderfulsmellz (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: JSH1991 (small blind) showed [As Ac] and lost with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 3: BallaHolic952 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: AustinKay7 folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Macabee1 folded before the Flop
Seat 6: ricknyan showed [Kh Kc] and won (44,861) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 7: Random Donkey folded before the Flop
Seat 8: Tyren0 folded before the Flop
Seat 9: threetoos folded before the Flop
07-12-2010 , 09:32 PM
Gross
07-13-2010 , 02:42 AM
I'd strongly recommend a HUD and more than just putting regs on ranges, even small numbers of hands can give you a ton of info about what type of player villain is. It'll seem like info overload when you start but once you get used to all the numbers youll instantly process it just like you do stack sizes.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...c-tldr-803344/
07-13-2010 , 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusemandingo
I'd strongly recommend a HUD and more than just putting regs on ranges, even small numbers of hands can give you a ton of info about what type of player villain is. It'll seem like info overload when you start but once you get used to all the numbers youll instantly process it just like you do stack sizes.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...c-tldr-803344/
ive been use a hud now for over a week, and like it and have gotten used to it

      
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