Terrible sessions again. I'm BE just because a fish payed out my flopped boat w/ A-high.

Oh, what a week. The following hand describes it very precisely:



Graph since I started this challenge:



Some usual stats:

• Volume: 22.889 hands
• VP$IP/PFR: 23/19
• 3bet: 4.3 (this week: 5.2)
• Win-rate: 3.91 bb/100 (this week: -3.45 bb/100)
• Ww/oSD: -12.69 bb/100 (this week: -14.43 bb/100)

I also checked if 3betting more has been really profitable. I started doing so three weeks ago. The following stats show my WR in all spots when I could 3bet (monster hands excluded) before and after this point:

• WR before: -42.31 bb/100 --> WR after: -26.28 bb/100
• WRw/oSD before: -51.40 bb/100 --> WRw/oSD after: -47.87 bb/100

The stats show some improvement so I will keep looking for spots when 3betting (light) could be +EV and I will fire that raise!

The next topic will be how to fight more effectively against donk bets. Unfortunately I couldn't finish reading all the relevant posts yet but I'm going to raise more (as a bluff) in these spots from now on.

In the following three days we (with my "Leffe" friends) are going to visit another city. I expect a lot of live poker but I don't know how much I'll be able to play online.

Anyway, thx for reading this too long post .

AKs hand i'd probably call villain's raise IP. by shoving we narrow his range to 2 pairs+ imho and our equity with a naked FD is crappy.
by flatting we keep villain's range wider (including worse FDs) and we can count our overs as outs.

I don't mind shoving with FD there, but it's a high variance play if you don't mind it. It's tricky when you flat a c/r 100bb deep because ott the pot is nearly 40bbs big and you can't really call a decent sized bet with one card to come if you miss.

Actually I think shoving is far better here. What do you do if turn is a brick (as in this case it was)? I didn't post villain's stats as I thought it was obvious based on his holding. But he was such a huge fish...

Yes, it is. I don't like flatting against him as I have a lot of equity OTF. My equity drops a lot on a brick turn...

Thx both of you!

yeah i like it both ways.

what's villain AF?


vs. aggro fish i like shoving because, as you said, we can't stand a turn barrell unimproved, plus there's more air in his range.
vs. a passive one, we have less FE because their raising range is stronger and we're usually flipping vs. his range, or behind vs. sets/2pair. in that case calling and revaluating turn is not that bad. plus he can check ott and we have options.

shoving here is never a mistake of course and avoids playing other streets.

^^^ OK, he was a huge (I mean a really huge) fish. I was quite surpized he had a pair at alll... At that point he was quite aggro postflop but again, he was a huge fish betting/raising w/ everything.

We played live a lot with my friends in the last two days. I was mostly card dead and lost about one BI but I enjoyed the game a lot.

On the other hand I'm still struggling online. Besides running bad and under EV I seem to make always the wrong moves (e.g. not c-betting when ahead and c-bet/folding when behind)...

Finally a better day.



Some hands where I faced a donk bet OTF. How do you play against them?

Villain was a fishy 29/14 (over 53 hands), 2/3 donk bets, postflop aggro. If we raise OTF can we call a shove?



In the second hand SB was completely unknown and BB was a huge fish (63/38 over only 16 hands), 2/3 donk bets. OTF I may be ahead but the SB is still in the pot.

i don't know if this can help (might be wrong)

when i have air or a weak hand

i tend to raise donkbets when:
-villain has a high dbet% + donkbet is small + dry board (especially Axx, or paired boards). it works both for value and as a bluff.

i tend to fold (even strong overpairs):
-no stats on villain + donkbet is relatively big + drawy board+ villain donks in a multiway pot + villain is likely not to fold or could even shove if we raise (i don't want to commit to a pot with a weak hand). our hand has little equity or is not working well even vs. a range of strong draws.

i tend to call:
-when it's a mixture of the situations above and i'm IP and i feel like i'm ahead a good amount of times. plus

these hands are pretty much in the middle

AJ hand i'd probably call because we're given good odds, plus we have the A and a J. we're rarely really ahead here imo as any naked draw has decent equity. given the stack sizes if we raise here we probably have o call a shove but i wouldn't expect to be ahead in that case.

66 hand: meh...i'm probably calling and revaluating turn.

it's also important to understand their donking range and how they play the turn when they get called. take as many notes as you can.

Thx baohoa for your thoughts! I more or less agree w/ your counter strategy but I think we should also take into account villain's stack size too. That was my problem in the first hand: if we raise he can feel himself pot comitted easily and shove or just call and shove OTT. Had he had a full stack it would have been easier for me to raise. Is it reasonable?

Actually I called in both hands and I fold later. In the second hand villain went to SD w/ the SB and won w/ A-high. Arghhh...

I think I'm going to raise a lot of these donk bets (except the once you mentioned too where I'm crushed) and check if it is (or can be) profitable.

i don't know if it was baluga...but "donkbets= donkfolds".

on the stack sizes, when SPR is higher we have more space to play postflop so it's a bit easier IP. but i wouldn't rely too much on it because people who donkbet usually are bad players and all we have to figure out is what they're donking range is, and if they're willing to fold to a bluff raise, or if we can take more value by flatcalling all streets with our overpair when they bet tp.

hand 1 - pretty standard flop call.
hand 2 - fold. you are going to hate every turn thats not a 6, and you have a player left to act still. wait for a better spot and stack him.

Do you mean I should keep folding as I used to? Perhaps, but this challenge is about trying out new lines too. If I can't do it (bluff raising) profitably then I will obviously stop it and go on folding when I have nothing or I can't draw profitably.

Yeah, flatting w/ overpairs is standard. My problem is what to do when I have nothing (which is the case most of the time )

Yes, I used to play like this. Your reasoning is obviously correct I just hate folding when there's a good chance I'm ahead...

Hand 1: No need to bluffraise a shortstack here. I usually make smaller isolation raises when I have short stacked fish behind me if they call a lot and aren't fit or fold players post flop. Dependent on villains tendencies post flop, I'd probably call the flop donkbet since you have double backdoors and 2 overcards and I often get to see a free river when opponents minidonkbet the flop.


Hand 2. Just fold. You won't have a good red line vs calling stations. If you do, then you most likely have missed out on lots of value! You can beat nl50 with a solid winrate even if you have a redline pointing down to the devil. Just valuebet your strong hands relentlessly. If you are going to bluffraise opponents, do it vs weaktight regulars that play too honestly.

The problem is I got good odds to call OTF/OTT but had to fold OTR which doesn't makes my red line better. I'm not saying it wasn't a good line but I think a more aggro line could be sometimes even better.

I know that. My problem is my red line is not simply "not good" but it's tragical... and there's a world of difference.

Bluff raising weak/tight opponents is something I'm going to do more often.

Thx for your comments!

Finally a run-good day.



In this hand the UTG was a huge aggrodonk fish (82/45). I had won several pots against him but it was the first time he got 3bet. The SB was also somehow fishy (31/23). He tried to play a lot of pots w/ the fish. What to do after UTG shoved?

I just went through the thread and saw that you posted some stats from HEM. I got the impression that you flat quite a bit from the blinds. How do you play post flop? How often do you checkraise flop as a bluff and for value? How often do you donk-bet?

How about your aggression frequencies post flop on every street?

Have you checked how much you pay in rake in bb/100? I believe that it would be more profitable for you to play on one of the European networks with a good rakeback deal since the rake is very high in microstakes games. NL10 is definitely soft at iPoker and Ongame as well for instance and you won't have problems finding games.

no, i was meaning exactly the opposite. people who are used to donkbet often fold to a raise

My stats since I started this challenge.

Flat call from the SB: 333/3164, WR: -1.92 bb/100
Flat call from the BB: 307/3878, WR: +190 bb/100

So I don't think I call too much out of the blinds.

c/r OTF: I only do it w/ strong hands/draws. I don't bluff c/r at all (practically). I know it's a leak and I'm going to change it.

Donking OTF: I do it very rarely. Only if I have a big hand and I want to protect it on a multi-way flop or if I the PFR is passive and I want to build the pot.

Postflop aggression: 31.5/23.8/20.8. Yes, this is the problem. I'm too passive.

I'm not really interested in changing the room. I like the SW and I like the huge player pool. As I'm just a recreational player having a good WR is much more important than having a good RB deal.

Thanks for questions! In the following months I'm going to review every aspects of my (postflop) game. Your comments are always welcome!

Oh, OK, that's good news . In one of the threads in this topic the OP states these players don't like to fold. I think I have to experiment as much as possible in order to find the right balance between folding/calling/raising.

It's easier to control the action when you are in position. Good opponents will put pressure on you (well, even donks do it) when you play OOP. I'm not sure if it's possible to see your non-showdown winnings from the blinds, but I am pretty sure that's a big cause for a negative redline if you aren't aggressive OOP. If you play strong hands from the blinds and have positive results, I'm pretty sure that they are showdown winnings.

I don't know how big bankroll you have, but Leakbuster is a pretty cool app to HEM where you can see how your stats "should" be and it helps you identify possible leaks. You also get general training videos to correct those leaks. The micro stakes version costs like $50. It also makes it a lot easier to analyze your game IMO.

Checkraise bluffing is very effective, but perhaps nothing you should do at nl10 vs unknown players. I like to checkraise players that have a high flop c-bet, but low turn C-bet, and I do it with made hands, draws and sometimes hands that I setmine with that missed the flop.

You aggression frequencies is slightly lower than they "should" be. Flop agg% is recommended by Leakbuster to be somewhere between 43.2-50.7, while your turn and river af is a bit lower than recommended.

Thx again!

Flop aggression: I c-bet only around 60-65% which is perhaps low even at NL10. Reason is my turn c-bet% is high (around 65%) because I don't like just firing OTF and giving up OTT a lot. Perhaps I should fire some more flops and give up OTT if called.

LB for HEM: The prize is def. not a problem but I've read somewhere here it isn't that great either. Anyway, I'll think about it once more.

I don't know about this softness of 10NL everywhere. Either everybody is sooo good anyone can beat it or some people haven't played it in years and miss the fact thats its like 50NL from 2-3 years back. Infested with regs, even from 20,50NL and some shortstackers here and there. There just aren't many fish that come along and give away 3,4 stacks of 10$ like its nada.

I agree about rake though and since IPoker is one of the most expensive sites to play on if you have a good RB deal it's also the most invest returning.

Anyways, i wanted to say about game selection which I'm having problems with lately on IPoker, even lower than 10NL. Sure you find fish, but most of the people playing are shortstackers and I'm having huge problems with those lately, mainly because i can't win a flip, and some are pretty decent at 3bet/shoving about 12-15% range which just drives me nuts. I end up either calling and flipping and losing mostly or folding most of the time and playing 13/11 after 100+ hands. (6max).

I guess just variance catching up with me and just gotta grind it out....Anyways, you play on Stars, is it any different there?

That's the good thing on Stars! You can almost always find good tables w/o regs. And one more thing to mention: you should start new tables yourself! I do it quite often and normally the fish are sitting in. Very profitable!

I still think Stars NL10 is soft enough to play on.