Curious...why never ever?

It is not only JJ+, AK+. This is a spot where u should be squeezing with a pretty wide range, with so few reads on OR also. AT+, KT+, TT+ looks like a decent squeezing range here. The fishier the caller is the wider ur range for reisoing should be here (again, unless u have a good sample on OR and he is an ubernit)
Everytime u have a loose fish in the pot and u have high card value u should be seriously thinking about 3betting to get HU vs. him.
Usually what happens is:

1) OR folds and fish calls...awesome
2) both players fold...awesome
3) both players call. Meh, but not so bad as their range for flatting is prob weak (OR would 4bet monsters) and fishes...gonna fish
4) OR 4bets: nice, u can play perfectly vs. that. Especially when u are at the bottom of ur squeezing range, as u cant be flatting with them.


U often move OR off his equity share and often make him fold a small PP, improve ur equity in the pot if u get HU vs. the weaker range when u get called by the loose fish.

^^^ Yeah, thx for this! Actually I have rather problems when I have a big hand but I'm not ready to stack off with it pre. As in the example I would have rather squeezed with KQ as it's a much easier fold if OR 4bets and I would have been still ahead of the fish' calling range...

Another good session: up half a BI although I got KK < AA.


Hand #1:
First hand is for ProfesorKaos. Villain was completely unknown. Actually I don't really like my river call.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.16(BB) Replayer
Hero ($17.51)
BB ($16)
UTG ($27.23)
CO ($16.24)
BTN ($12.56)

Dealt to Hero 9 Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.48, BB calls $0.32

FLOP ($0.96) 3 9 6

Hero checks, BB bets $0.69, Hero calls $0.69

TURN ($2.34) 3 9 6 6

Hero checks, BB bets $1.67, Hero calls $1.67

RIVER ($5.68) 3 9 6 6 2

Hero checks, BB bets $4.07, Hero calls $4.07

BB shows Q J
(Pre 74%, Flop 15.7%, Turn 6.8%)

Hero shows 9 Q
(Pre 26%, Flop 84.3%, Turn 93.2%)

Hero wins $13.20


Hand #2:
Against a passive fish. I put him on a bigger PP and I was quite surprised at SD.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.16(BB) Replayer
SB ($13.04)
Hero ($16)
UTG ($9.23)
UTG+1 ($8.92)
CO ($18.76)
BTN ($7.22)

Dealt to Hero A Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.48, Hero calls $0.32

FLOP ($0.96) 2 A T

SB bets $0.96, Hero calls $0.96

TURN ($2.88) 2 A T 6

SB bets $0.96, Hero calls $0.96

RIVER ($4.80) 2 A T 6 8

SB checks, Hero bets $2.74, SB calls $2.74

SB shows A K
(Pre 75%, Flop 87.3%, Turn 93.2%)

Hero shows A Q
(Pre 25%, Flop 12.7%, Turn 6.8%)

SB wins $9.82

why dont u like ur river call in h1? there are tonnes of draws he can take this line with, plus hed probs raise 33/66 otf, so your really only worried about K9/A9/TT-QQ.

haha yeeessssss! yesssssssssssssss!

what did I tell you about these mugs thinking they are all that bvb when we check!

super standard nice hand

HH2 AQ, I 3b pre vs fish. as played I probly raise flop, although he is passive I see these types actually really over valuing TP like A9 here and just getting it in.

if not flop I raise turn, his small sizing means he is a little weaker than 2p+ usually although passive fish do tend to make small bets to try and get value which is obv stupid but I still raise coz he is starting to look weak.

river call is fine imo he can have some worse aces or some times just bluff missed draw. lots of fish, passive or not tend to bluff way too much and not value bet enough and they often hpsb. i used to think nobody, especially fish did that as bluff but they do a lot

Yes, but villain was unknown and I doubt an average unknown at NL16 will TB here w/ worse often enough.

Thx

In the AQ hand villain was really passive pre (sg like 60/4) that's why I just called. OTR villain x/c'd

oh woops, but yeah I still 3b pre. because these guys have 4% pfr doesnt mean they have top 4% of hands when they open. it can be anything. they tend to limp QQ+/AK a lot and just randomly raise some crap.

also I would bet a touch bigger otr. anything calling a hpsb is calling like $3.50

Hand 1 is well played and folding river would be criminal. Not only does he have all sorts of missed draws he also value bets river with all worse 9x too.

Hand 2 I agree with 3b pre; 60/4 will still open pretty wide in SB and 60% VPIP means he loves seeing flops so no doubt he had very low f3B so you miss a lot of value pre by flatting.

@spazzmonkey, why would u bet big? apart from 2nd pairs + AJ/A9/A7 we're not getting called a tonne here.

where is the idea of always betting big to print money coming from?

if ur semi-bluffing or just cbetting good boards why bet more than u need to, u shud adjust it for % of time required for it to work, as well as what % of hands can actually make the call.

theres not much point betting 80% with top set on a stupidly dry board when tehres very few hands that can call you.

but if u flop top set on a very wet/co-ordinated board then it warrants reason to bet much bigger.

EDIT: you'd overbet in that spot, seriously? why would you?

Thx guys!

In the last few sessions I 3bet less often esp. for value. I'll start to look for more opportunities to raise for value.

If villain raises I fold. I doubt I can call a raise here profitably.

I assume spazzm0nkey's talking about value hands and bet sizing with those hands.

well yeah, but that HH we have TPGK... not a set/straight/flush or w/e

I seriously doubt calling raises OOP with a weak hand vs an unknown would be profitable. It's NL16 and people don't often (enough) raise as a bluff.

On the other hand I agree with you I should consider betting bigger (even overbetting) for value as often as possible but I doubt there would be no room for smaller (half pot or even less) bets.

Today I was playing live the usual monthly tourny w/ my friends.

I'm stealing on the CO w/ A3o and the BB, a fairly loose and somehow passive player (but he's not a very big fish (just fishy)) calls. Flop is 88K, I c-bet and villain min raises. I'm thinking and thinking and finally end up shoving. Spew? My image is taggish and villain's (more or less) aware of that.

meh in a tourney i think you should just fold, given that there passive + min raising you...

interested to know, what did villain do?

Villain is passive but he's some of them who may min raise w/ TP to see where he is. Anyway I should have just folded. I might have been a bit tilted b/c KK < AA an orbit ago.

He was thinking long and finally called w/ AK.

I've been seriously crushed today. Down one BI... not the greatest start of the month.

Hand #1:
Against an aggrodonk fish.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.16(BB) Replayer
SB ($10.68)
BB ($11.06)
Hero ($18.71)
CO ($21.77)
BTN ($7.09)

Dealt to Hero A 9

Hero raises to $0.56, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $0.40

FLOP ($1.20) K 8 8

BB checks, Hero bets $0.69, BB calls $0.69

TURN ($2.58) K 8 8 5

BB checks, Hero checks

RIVER ($2.58) K 8 8 5 9

BB bets $2.08, Hero calls $2.08

BB shows A 8
(Pre 29%, Flop 99.5%, Turn 100.0%)

Hero shows A 9
(Pre 71%, Flop 0.5%, Turn 0.0%)

BB wins $6.44


Hand #2:
Against a LAG (25/25, 23% 3bet (3/6 OTB)).

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.16(BB) Replayer
SB ($18.55)
BB ($21.26)
UTG ($23.36)
Hero ($16)
BTN ($16)

Dealt to Hero K Q

fold, Hero raises to $0.48, BTN raises to $1.24, fold, fold, Hero raises to $2.56, BTN raises to $16 (AI), fold

BTN wins $5.36


Hand #3:
SB was a loose/passive fish (but/only very aggro OTR). BB was an aggrodonk.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.16(BB) Replayer
SB ($6.80)
BB ($29.14)
Hero ($18.40)
BTN ($16)

Dealt to Hero A A

Hero raises to $0.48, fold, SB calls $0.40, BB calls $0.32

FLOP ($1.44) J T 5

SB checks, BB bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80, SB calls $0.80

TURN ($3.84) J T 5 J

SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks

RIVER ($3.84) J T 5 J 5

SB bets $1.52, BB raises to $3.68, Hero folds, SB folds

BB wins $6.57

HH 1 - Don't post results

It is pretty gross spot but I probably fold river. He has a lot of Kx in his range and might XR FD's plus he can have 8x or 99. I expect them to SD ace hi and small pairs most ott and I don't think the amount he bluffs there is enough to outweigh his value bets. Calling is probably ok but I think it would be a good fold.

HH 2- I flat pre here pretty often. We have a nice hand to play back with postflop and at these limits, I think it is a good idea to get stuck in and learn how to play well in 3b pots because not very many people are good at it and it can be a huge edge in any game.

I would go for some reverse floats or check raises UI on decent textures and hopefully pick off some bluffs when I bink.

4betting is obv fine here since his 3betting range should be pretty wide being CO/BTN and we have sexy blockers and I don't expect anyone to randomly 5b bluff us here.


HH 3 - I think I raise flop here for value. Lot's of turns are bad for our hand, like 9/8/Q/K/T and both these guys are going to put a lot of money in with draws and Jx. We don't need to call flop to try and trap the loose passive behind us otf because he will call with any piece anyway.

ott, you need to value bet. there are plenty of worse hands that call us here. draws,Tx are a good portion of their ranges and we don't want to give a free card. If either of them wake up ott, I would probly fold, unless the BB was really agro, then I might just call him down and steer clear of the loose passive.

and folding the river seems ok here since we have the loose passive behind us but I wouldn't be surprised to see a weird bluff from BB here some %

Thx Kaos!

In H1 villain had a pretty high postflop (and river AFq) but I should have taken into account his bet sizing too. I actually snap called.

H2: I hate flat calling OOP in 3bet pots and I practically never do that but calling IP would be really an option.

H3: I didn't want to scare them off and I don't think there are really so many bad turn cards. On the other hand you may be right and they call w/ a lot of hands anyway. OTT I didn't want to b/f and just tried to see what happens OTR.

HH 1 - yeah I can definitely see why you called. i mean we often see some stupid JTo hands here against these types, so even if it is close, calling for info might actually be better.

HH 2 - It's really not that bad flatting OOP vs 3bets with such a good hand. It def isn't something we should be making a habit of but it's pretty easy to turn a profit against all but excellent villains imo It's also good to be able to mix things up and sometimes flat and sometimes 4b, so we aren't exposing a really air heavy range to a good villain (air being anything that isn't stacking off and doing this means he can just start jamming pairs on us since we play 4b or fold and will have to start playing back here)

HH 3 - you won't scare them off if they have a half decent hand. neither is folding AQ/98/Q9/KQ/Jx/QQ/KK (if they ever play overpairs this way and it's not unheard of for me). we want to get as money in against that part of their range because we have them crushed.

you shouldn't worry about keeping in 2nd pairs and gut shots and stuff when you have such a dominating hand. when you have something like J9 or AT here, it becomes much more important to pot control and size your bets small so that we keep worse hands in.

H2 (and flat calling in 3bet pots OOP): Well, you may be right but I should start calling more IP first. I actually fold a lot getting 3bet but don't tell it to anybody

H3: Yep, I should have raised OTF I agree now.

lol ye only about a month ago I was folding waayy too much to 3bets, especially BTN vs blinds where the regs love to attack BTN steals.

If you have DC sub you should watch turning the corner episode 5, it really helped my 3b game.

Thx guys, really appreciate your answers.

I wish I could but I don't have time for this. Family, job, ... This month I'll be happy if I can put in 5k hands... LOL.

oh ok np gl m8

Hand 1 I would check the flop and bet the turn if checked to or call a turn bet. We have the best hand on the flop most of the time and not much better is going to fold. Checking the flop will give us the chance to get to SD more often in situations like this because usually we will go bet/check/fold.

Hand 2 I think I call the 3bet even though we are OOP, It must be a small sample size and we dont really know enough to 4bet but KQ isnt going to play that bad against someone who we think is 3betting a touch loose. I would rather 4bet Asmall or Kx/Qx if im going to fold to a 5bet.

Hand 3 I agree we can raise the flop here. As played we want to play a small pot and we cant do that on the river after bet and raise.