Just quit my 6 figure job to play live poker
03-16-2013
, 12:59 AM
03-16-2013
, 10:37 AM
your thread Aesah.
03-16-2013
, 02:42 PM
1k post! As promised...
Aesah's beginner's guide to Pot Limit Omaha for No Limit Hold'em players:
Table Selection
Dude, you can't table select in live PLO, consider yourself lucky if you even have access to one of these gold mines. Take 10 seconds to scan the table, then buy in for ~75bb if less than half of the players look like professionals.
Preflop:
OK this is live PLO, and you are a beginner. No need for crazy bluffs, hero calls, floats, range merging, polarization, etc. Expect to see lots of multiway pots where someone out there will have the nuts. Let that guy be you!! And let someone else be the sucker who pays you off with 2nd nuts. Basically I consider there to be 3 main hand groupings that can make the nuts that you should play... they make the nut flush, set, and straight , and they are color-coded accordingly throughout. While discretion is advised to fold the most raggy hands from the worst positions even if they fit in these categories, you can limp pretty much any hand that can make:
1) an ace high flush (AhJh5d2s),
2) a set of queens or better (QdQs6d2h),
3) medium-high smooth/1 gap at the bottom rundowns (Td9s8h6c being the absolute bottom of your rundown range), and
4) Any combination of the above is obviously very premium (AdKdKsJd). Don't worry about seeing 3 diamonds in your hand, it's irrelevant. Trips in your hand is total trash though.
OK so the example hands above are pretty bad and near the bottom of the range of qualifying hands you'll be dealt, feel free to fold them if you want. In fact if you're patient enough... playing only premium hands is 100% totally fine in PLO because you will always get action no matter what, and the only drawback of a low VPIP, getting blinded down, is basically 100% irrelevant in live PLO. You can raise a bit if you want, but I'd start with just limp/calling everything (unless the pot gets ridiculously bloated preflop)- an added bonus of the limp/call everything strategy is that sometimes you'll be able to limp/jam AAxx (note that getting in 30% of your stack preflop is equivalent to a jam, since SPR<1 if you get a caller and you can jam any flop). If your table is 3-bet happy just tighten the hell up and just limp/jam AAxx/good KKxx (high side cards, suits)/double suited big cards.
Be very careful to avoid hands that look decent/similar to the ones above but actually suck like AhQsTs7d (you're never going to be happy with your hand unless you make the nut straight on a rainbow board), 5h5s2h2s (since you won't ever overflush or overset anyone), and 6s5s4d3c (since you won't ever overstraight anyone). Hopefully it should go without saying that stuff like QsJs6h5h is just utter complete garbage, you never want to flop an OESD in PLO, you want a wrap. So yea, do not limp with hands like the ones above no matter how pretty they look and how potentially +EV they could be if you were a PLO master (more on this later). They are bad in multiway pots.
Quick note on not having danglers: overrated for hands in category 1 and 2. Obviously QQJT is much better than QQ62, but this is live PLO, any hand that can flop the nuts is +EV enough to limp. Does it really matter if you have an OESD with your set when the flop comes Q93r? Nope. As a NLHE comparison, obviously AQs is much better than AJo, but you still can play both.
Flop:
Start by check/raising a lot with your range of nuts/nut draws. Fold your air, trouble hands like bottom 2 pair (more on this later), and draws to non-nutted hands. If you have position or it looks like the flop is going to get checked through, bet. Don't slowplay. Just bet pot-sized bets or very close to it with anything that you know FOR SURE has at least 33% equity against basically almost anything (for example, AhJh5d2s on Td6h4h, QdQs6d2h on QsJh8h, and Td9s8h6c on Kd7h6s). If you can handle it, try to pay close attention to your SPR and always try to get the last bet in because your opponents will often incorrectly fold out their equity (e.g., folding a T high flush draw + gutter vs. your CRAI with top set on Ks4s3d, or folding bottom two pair vs. your CRAI with ace-high + naked nut flush draw on KcJd6c).
Turn:
Basically same as flop, except that your draws are only half as good (and accordingly, your made hands are twice as good) on the turn than on the flop.
River:
On the river, basically nothing except the stone cold nuts is worth betting or calling with. Again, don't worry about thin value bets/hero calls when you're just learning.
Bluffing:
VERY SIMPLE: Don't bluff! The fact that you're betting a mix of draws/made hands already balances your ranges enough that people will incorrectly fold their equity against you. Note that betting ace high with the nut flush draw on an unpaired flop doesn't count as a bluff- you want to think of your hands in terms of equities vs. ranges, not in terms of "what's the hand I have right now if it were to instantly go to showdown".
Medium strength hands:
Easy game up until now- this is the tough part where as a beginner you'll not be making as much money where experienced players are. The most important thing to realize about this is... it's totally fine!! Sure it's -EV for a good player to pass on some of these spots, but it's really no big deal for now.
Most people learning poker try to learn how to play every hand in the most +EV manner. BIG MISTAKE. Poker is complicated. If your goal is to become an Olympic-level figure skater, then yes, you're going to need to learn how to loop, lutz, and axel. However no one learns to do that all at once, they learn how to skate in a straight line without falling down first. Poker is the same. Learn the basics (making nuts/nut draws and betting aggressively), get good at them, THEN you can worry about playing medium strength hands for thin value, hero calls, etc. But definitely don't try learning the poker equivalent of lutzes and axels until you can confidently beat the game playing nutty hands/draws.
So, since you'll end up in this situation a lot anyway... here's a brief guide on what to do. You can basically just deal with these medium strength hands by mixing up check/folding and bet/folding with them (putting more weight on an option based on whether the table is loose or tight, respectively). In general, you can always bet/fold TPTK/overpairs/2pair on uncoordinated flops, and continue with 2pair+ or good draws (8+ outs minimum) on safe turns. Learning to play these comes mainly with experience, by paying close attention to when good players go to showdown and seeing if their line with all 4 of their cards (not just the 2 that play) make sense. IMPORTANT: Always fold to aggression!
For a few examples, on coordinated flops, you basically want to have the nuts or a good draw to the nuts. No shame in folding AhJh5d2s on AdJdTh (2 outs to the nuts, 2 more to "probably the nuts"), QdQs6d2h on 9d8d2d (possibly drawing dead! very exploitable to fold to 1 bet but this is live pokers so lolexploitability. This one is a valuebet though if flop checks through), or Td9s8h6c on QcJd6d (a pair with 16 turn cards that can give you a straight may look really pretty but this hand actually blows! Note that you merely have 2 outs to the nuts!!).
So to summarize, if you're facing aggression and there's some possibility you could be drawing completely dead, don't be afraid to just muck hands like bottom two pair to a single bet when you're just learning the game even though a professional could continue with them profitably.
Finally, quick note about board texture. On extremely coordinated boards like 9d7c6h, TcTs8s, and Jd4d2d, an overpair is NOT a "medium strength hand" like it is on most boards. It's total trash.
Conclusion:
Wait a second Aesah, this seems too easy. Are you really telling me I can beat live PLO playing only premium hands with like 2 pages worth of knowledge? YES! Because although you'll probably end up with a few pros, the majority of your table should be recreational players playing a combined average of at least 85% VPIP and stacking off with hands like AhQsTs7d on 9s6s4d to find out they're drawing to 3 outs, 5h5s2h2s on AcQh5d to find out they're drawing to 1 out, and 6s5s4d3c on 8c7s5h to find out they're almost completely dead. If these hands look familar, that's because they're our trouble/trash hands from the preflop section... make sense why now
? These guys will lose lots of money at the tables... the veteran PLO sharks may get more of it than you, but if there's any justice in this world, you will get some too.
Good luck on the tables!
Aesah's beginner's guide to Pot Limit Omaha for No Limit Hold'em players:
Table Selection
Dude, you can't table select in live PLO, consider yourself lucky if you even have access to one of these gold mines. Take 10 seconds to scan the table, then buy in for ~75bb if less than half of the players look like professionals.
Preflop:
OK this is live PLO, and you are a beginner. No need for crazy bluffs, hero calls, floats, range merging, polarization, etc. Expect to see lots of multiway pots where someone out there will have the nuts. Let that guy be you!! And let someone else be the sucker who pays you off with 2nd nuts. Basically I consider there to be 3 main hand groupings that can make the nuts that you should play... they make the nut flush, set, and straight , and they are color-coded accordingly throughout. While discretion is advised to fold the most raggy hands from the worst positions even if they fit in these categories, you can limp pretty much any hand that can make:
1) an ace high flush (AhJh5d2s),
2) a set of queens or better (QdQs6d2h),
3) medium-high smooth/1 gap at the bottom rundowns (Td9s8h6c being the absolute bottom of your rundown range), and
4) Any combination of the above is obviously very premium (AdKdKsJd). Don't worry about seeing 3 diamonds in your hand, it's irrelevant. Trips in your hand is total trash though.
OK so the example hands above are pretty bad and near the bottom of the range of qualifying hands you'll be dealt, feel free to fold them if you want. In fact if you're patient enough... playing only premium hands is 100% totally fine in PLO because you will always get action no matter what, and the only drawback of a low VPIP, getting blinded down, is basically 100% irrelevant in live PLO. You can raise a bit if you want, but I'd start with just limp/calling everything (unless the pot gets ridiculously bloated preflop)- an added bonus of the limp/call everything strategy is that sometimes you'll be able to limp/jam AAxx (note that getting in 30% of your stack preflop is equivalent to a jam, since SPR<1 if you get a caller and you can jam any flop). If your table is 3-bet happy just tighten the hell up and just limp/jam AAxx/good KKxx (high side cards, suits)/double suited big cards.
Be very careful to avoid hands that look decent/similar to the ones above but actually suck like AhQsTs7d (you're never going to be happy with your hand unless you make the nut straight on a rainbow board), 5h5s2h2s (since you won't ever overflush or overset anyone), and 6s5s4d3c (since you won't ever overstraight anyone). Hopefully it should go without saying that stuff like QsJs6h5h is just utter complete garbage, you never want to flop an OESD in PLO, you want a wrap. So yea, do not limp with hands like the ones above no matter how pretty they look and how potentially +EV they could be if you were a PLO master (more on this later). They are bad in multiway pots.
Quick note on not having danglers: overrated for hands in category 1 and 2. Obviously QQJT is much better than QQ62, but this is live PLO, any hand that can flop the nuts is +EV enough to limp. Does it really matter if you have an OESD with your set when the flop comes Q93r? Nope. As a NLHE comparison, obviously AQs is much better than AJo, but you still can play both.
Flop:
Start by check/raising a lot with your range of nuts/nut draws. Fold your air, trouble hands like bottom 2 pair (more on this later), and draws to non-nutted hands. If you have position or it looks like the flop is going to get checked through, bet. Don't slowplay. Just bet pot-sized bets or very close to it with anything that you know FOR SURE has at least 33% equity against basically almost anything (for example, AhJh5d2s on Td6h4h, QdQs6d2h on QsJh8h, and Td9s8h6c on Kd7h6s). If you can handle it, try to pay close attention to your SPR and always try to get the last bet in because your opponents will often incorrectly fold out their equity (e.g., folding a T high flush draw + gutter vs. your CRAI with top set on Ks4s3d, or folding bottom two pair vs. your CRAI with ace-high + naked nut flush draw on KcJd6c).
Turn:
Basically same as flop, except that your draws are only half as good (and accordingly, your made hands are twice as good) on the turn than on the flop.
River:
On the river, basically nothing except the stone cold nuts is worth betting or calling with. Again, don't worry about thin value bets/hero calls when you're just learning.
Bluffing:
VERY SIMPLE: Don't bluff! The fact that you're betting a mix of draws/made hands already balances your ranges enough that people will incorrectly fold their equity against you. Note that betting ace high with the nut flush draw on an unpaired flop doesn't count as a bluff- you want to think of your hands in terms of equities vs. ranges, not in terms of "what's the hand I have right now if it were to instantly go to showdown".
Medium strength hands:
Easy game up until now- this is the tough part where as a beginner you'll not be making as much money where experienced players are. The most important thing to realize about this is... it's totally fine!! Sure it's -EV for a good player to pass on some of these spots, but it's really no big deal for now.
Most people learning poker try to learn how to play every hand in the most +EV manner. BIG MISTAKE. Poker is complicated. If your goal is to become an Olympic-level figure skater, then yes, you're going to need to learn how to loop, lutz, and axel. However no one learns to do that all at once, they learn how to skate in a straight line without falling down first. Poker is the same. Learn the basics (making nuts/nut draws and betting aggressively), get good at them, THEN you can worry about playing medium strength hands for thin value, hero calls, etc. But definitely don't try learning the poker equivalent of lutzes and axels until you can confidently beat the game playing nutty hands/draws.
So, since you'll end up in this situation a lot anyway... here's a brief guide on what to do. You can basically just deal with these medium strength hands by mixing up check/folding and bet/folding with them (putting more weight on an option based on whether the table is loose or tight, respectively). In general, you can always bet/fold TPTK/overpairs/2pair on uncoordinated flops, and continue with 2pair+ or good draws (8+ outs minimum) on safe turns. Learning to play these comes mainly with experience, by paying close attention to when good players go to showdown and seeing if their line with all 4 of their cards (not just the 2 that play) make sense. IMPORTANT: Always fold to aggression!
For a few examples, on coordinated flops, you basically want to have the nuts or a good draw to the nuts. No shame in folding AhJh5d2s on AdJdTh (2 outs to the nuts, 2 more to "probably the nuts"), QdQs6d2h on 9d8d2d (possibly drawing dead! very exploitable to fold to 1 bet but this is live pokers so lolexploitability. This one is a valuebet though if flop checks through), or Td9s8h6c on QcJd6d (a pair with 16 turn cards that can give you a straight may look really pretty but this hand actually blows! Note that you merely have 2 outs to the nuts!!).
So to summarize, if you're facing aggression and there's some possibility you could be drawing completely dead, don't be afraid to just muck hands like bottom two pair to a single bet when you're just learning the game even though a professional could continue with them profitably.
Finally, quick note about board texture. On extremely coordinated boards like 9d7c6h, TcTs8s, and Jd4d2d, an overpair is NOT a "medium strength hand" like it is on most boards. It's total trash.
Conclusion:
Wait a second Aesah, this seems too easy. Are you really telling me I can beat live PLO playing only premium hands with like 2 pages worth of knowledge? YES! Because although you'll probably end up with a few pros, the majority of your table should be recreational players playing a combined average of at least 85% VPIP and stacking off with hands like AhQsTs7d on 9s6s4d to find out they're drawing to 3 outs, 5h5s2h2s on AcQh5d to find out they're drawing to 1 out, and 6s5s4d3c on 8c7s5h to find out they're almost completely dead. If these hands look familar, that's because they're our trouble/trash hands from the preflop section... make sense why now
? These guys will lose lots of money at the tables... the veteran PLO sharks may get more of it than you, but if there's any justice in this world, you will get some too.Spoiler:
Good luck on the tables!
03-16-2013
, 02:52 PM
03-16-2013
, 02:54 PM
The hand in question is an AIPF hand. I need 17% equity on the flop to call villain's jam which he will jam 100% of the time, so I will call 100% of the time. Even if the flop comes TcTsTh which is probably the absolute worst for my hand, I would still call since A-high could be good.
I hate you guys.
As for watching videos, we got through like 3 episodes of 2x2 but you kept wanting to watch HIMYM instead
By the way, credit to Pokerella and also limon for teaching me pretty much everything I know about live PLO that I shared above.
03-16-2013
, 03:07 PM
03-16-2013
, 06:00 PM
03-16-2013
, 06:33 PM
Quote:
1k post! As promised...
Aesah's beginner's guide to Pot Limit Omaha for No Limit Hold'em players:
Table Selection
Dude, you can't table select in live PLO, consider yourself lucky if you even have access to one of these gold mines. Take 10 seconds to scan the table, then buy in for ~75bb if less than half of the players look like professionals.
Preflop:
OK this is live PLO, and you are a beginner. No need for crazy bluffs, hero calls, floats, range merging, polarization, etc. Expect to see lots of multiway pots where someone out there will have the nuts. Let that guy be you!! And let someone else be the sucker who pays you off with 2nd nuts. Basically I consider there to be 3 main hand groupings that can make the nuts that you should play... they make the nut flush, set, and straight , and they are color-coded accordingly throughout. While discretion is advised to fold the most raggy hands from the worst positions even if they fit in these categories, you can limp pretty much any hand that can make:
1) an ace high flush (AhJh5d2s),
2) a set of queens or better (QdQs6d2h),
3) medium-high smooth/1 gap at the bottom rundowns (Td9s8h6c being the absolute bottom of your rundown range), and
4) Any combination of the above is obviously very premium (AdKdKsJd). Don't worry about seeing 3 diamonds in your hand, it's irrelevant. Trips in your hand is total trash though.
OK so the example hands above are pretty bad and near the bottom of the range of qualifying hands you'll be dealt, feel free to fold them if you want. In fact if you're patient enough... playing only premium hands is 100% totally fine in PLO because you will always get action no matter what, and the only drawback of a low VPIP, getting blinded down, is basically 100% irrelevant in live PLO. You can raise a bit if you want, but I'd start with just limp/calling everything (unless the pot gets ridiculously bloated preflop)- an added bonus of the limp/call everything strategy is that sometimes you'll be able to limp/jam AAxx (note that getting in 30% of your stack preflop is equivalent to a jam, since SPR<1 if you get a caller and you can jam any flop). If your table is 3-bet happy just tighten the hell up and just limp/jam AAxx/good KKxx (high side cards, suits)/double suited big cards.
Be very careful to avoid hands that look decent/similar to the ones above but actually suck like AhQsTs7d (you're never going to be happy with your hand unless you make the nut straight on a rainbow board), 5h5s2h2s (since you won't ever overflush or overset anyone), and 6s5s4d3c (since you won't ever overstraight anyone). Hopefully it should go without saying that stuff like QsJs6h5h is just utter complete garbage, you never want to flop an OESD in PLO, you want a wrap. So yea, do not limp with hands like the ones above no matter how pretty they look and how potentially +EV they could be if you were a PLO master (more on this later). They are bad in multiway pots.
Quick note on not having danglers: overrated for hands in category 1 and 2. Obviously QQJT is much better than QQ62, but this is live PLO, any hand that can flop the nuts is +EV enough to limp. Does it really matter if you have an OESD with your set when the flop comes Q93r? Nope. As a NLHE comparison, obviously AQs is much better than AJo, but you still can play both.
Flop:
Start by check/raising a lot with your range of nuts/nut draws. Fold your air, trouble hands like bottom 2 pair (more on this later), and draws to non-nutted hands. If you have position or it looks like the flop is going to get checked through, bet. Don't slowplay. Just bet pot-sized bets or very close to it with anything that you know FOR SURE has at least 33% equity against basically almost anything (for example, AhJh5d2s on Td6h4h, QdQs6d2h on QsJh8h, and Td9s8h6c on Kd7h6s). If you can handle it, try to pay close attention to your SPR and always try to get the last bet in because your opponents will often incorrectly fold out their equity (e.g., folding a T high flush draw + gutter vs. your CRAI with top set on Ks4s3d, or folding bottom two pair vs. your CRAI with ace-high + naked nut flush draw on KcJd6c).
Turn:
Basically same as flop, except that your draws are only half as good (and accordingly, your made hands are twice as good) on the turn than on the flop.
River:
On the river, basically nothing except the stone cold nuts is worth betting or calling with. Again, don't worry about thin value bets/hero calls when you're just learning.
Bluffing:
VERY SIMPLE: Don't bluff! The fact that you're betting a mix of draws/made hands already balances your ranges enough that people will incorrectly fold their equity against you. Note that betting ace high with the nut flush draw on an unpaired flop doesn't count as a bluff- you want to think of your hands in terms of equities vs. ranges, not in terms of "what's the hand I have right now if it were to instantly go to showdown".
Medium strength hands:
Easy game up until now- this is the tough part where as a beginner you'll not be making as much money where experienced players are. The most important thing to realize about this is... it's totally fine!! Sure it's -EV for a good player to pass on some of these spots, but it's really no big deal for now.
Most people learning poker try to learn how to play every hand in the most +EV manner. BIG MISTAKE. Poker is complicated. If your goal is to become an Olympic-level figure skater, then yes, you're going to need to learn how to loop, lutz, and axel. However no one learns to do that all at once, they learn how to skate in a straight line without falling down first. Poker is the same. Learn the basics (making nuts/nut draws and betting aggressively), get good at them, THEN you can worry about playing medium strength hands for thin value, hero calls, etc. But definitely don't try learning the poker equivalent of lutzes and axels until you can confidently beat the game playing nutty hands/draws.
So, since you'll end up in this situation a lot anyway... here's a brief guide on what to do. You can basically just deal with these medium strength hands by mixing up check/folding and bet/folding with them (putting more weight on an option based on whether the table is loose or tight, respectively). In general, you can always bet/fold TPTK/overpairs/2pair on uncoordinated flops, and continue with 2pair+ or good draws (8+ outs minimum) on safe turns. Learning to play these comes mainly with experience, by paying close attention to when good players go to showdown and seeing if their line with all 4 of their cards (not just the 2 that play) make sense. IMPORTANT: Always fold to aggression!
For a few examples, on coordinated flops, you basically want to have the nuts or a good draw to the nuts. No shame in folding AhJh5d2s on AdJdTh (2 outs to the nuts, 2 more to "probably the nuts"), QdQs6d2h on 9d8d2d (possibly drawing dead! very exploitable to fold to 1 bet but this is live pokers so lolexploitability. This one is a valuebet though if flop checks through), or Td9s8h6c on QcJd6d (a pair with 16 turn cards that can give you a straight may look really pretty but this hand actually blows! Note that you merely have 2 outs to the nuts!!).
So to summarize, if you're facing aggression and there's some possibility you could be drawing completely dead, don't be afraid to just muck hands like bottom two pair to a single bet when you're just learning the game even though a professional could continue with them profitably.
Finally, quick note about board texture. On extremely coordinated boards like 9d7c6h, TcTs8s, and Jd4d2d, an overpair is NOT a "medium strength hand" like it is on most boards. It's total trash.
Conclusion:
Wait a second Aesah, this seems too easy. Are you really telling me I can beat live PLO playing only premium hands with like 2 pages worth of knowledge? YES! Because although you'll probably end up with a few pros, the majority of your table should be recreational players playing a combined average of at least 85% VPIP and stacking off with hands like AhQsTs7d on 9s6s4d to find out they're drawing to 3 outs, 5h5s2h2s on AcQh5d to find out they're drawing to 1 out, and 6s5s4d3c on 8c7s5h to find out they're almost completely dead. If these hands look familar, that's because they're our trouble/trash hands from the preflop section... make sense why now? These guys will lose lots of money at the tables... the veteran PLO sharks may get more of it than you, but if there's any justice in this world, you will get some too.
Good luck on the tables!
Aesah's beginner's guide to Pot Limit Omaha for No Limit Hold'em players:
Table Selection
Dude, you can't table select in live PLO, consider yourself lucky if you even have access to one of these gold mines. Take 10 seconds to scan the table, then buy in for ~75bb if less than half of the players look like professionals.
Preflop:
OK this is live PLO, and you are a beginner. No need for crazy bluffs, hero calls, floats, range merging, polarization, etc. Expect to see lots of multiway pots where someone out there will have the nuts. Let that guy be you!! And let someone else be the sucker who pays you off with 2nd nuts. Basically I consider there to be 3 main hand groupings that can make the nuts that you should play... they make the nut flush, set, and straight , and they are color-coded accordingly throughout. While discretion is advised to fold the most raggy hands from the worst positions even if they fit in these categories, you can limp pretty much any hand that can make:
1) an ace high flush (AhJh5d2s),
2) a set of queens or better (QdQs6d2h),
3) medium-high smooth/1 gap at the bottom rundowns (Td9s8h6c being the absolute bottom of your rundown range), and
4) Any combination of the above is obviously very premium (AdKdKsJd). Don't worry about seeing 3 diamonds in your hand, it's irrelevant. Trips in your hand is total trash though.
OK so the example hands above are pretty bad and near the bottom of the range of qualifying hands you'll be dealt, feel free to fold them if you want. In fact if you're patient enough... playing only premium hands is 100% totally fine in PLO because you will always get action no matter what, and the only drawback of a low VPIP, getting blinded down, is basically 100% irrelevant in live PLO. You can raise a bit if you want, but I'd start with just limp/calling everything (unless the pot gets ridiculously bloated preflop)- an added bonus of the limp/call everything strategy is that sometimes you'll be able to limp/jam AAxx (note that getting in 30% of your stack preflop is equivalent to a jam, since SPR<1 if you get a caller and you can jam any flop). If your table is 3-bet happy just tighten the hell up and just limp/jam AAxx/good KKxx (high side cards, suits)/double suited big cards.
Be very careful to avoid hands that look decent/similar to the ones above but actually suck like AhQsTs7d (you're never going to be happy with your hand unless you make the nut straight on a rainbow board), 5h5s2h2s (since you won't ever overflush or overset anyone), and 6s5s4d3c (since you won't ever overstraight anyone). Hopefully it should go without saying that stuff like QsJs6h5h is just utter complete garbage, you never want to flop an OESD in PLO, you want a wrap. So yea, do not limp with hands like the ones above no matter how pretty they look and how potentially +EV they could be if you were a PLO master (more on this later). They are bad in multiway pots.
Quick note on not having danglers: overrated for hands in category 1 and 2. Obviously QQJT is much better than QQ62, but this is live PLO, any hand that can flop the nuts is +EV enough to limp. Does it really matter if you have an OESD with your set when the flop comes Q93r? Nope. As a NLHE comparison, obviously AQs is much better than AJo, but you still can play both.
Flop:
Start by check/raising a lot with your range of nuts/nut draws. Fold your air, trouble hands like bottom 2 pair (more on this later), and draws to non-nutted hands. If you have position or it looks like the flop is going to get checked through, bet. Don't slowplay. Just bet pot-sized bets or very close to it with anything that you know FOR SURE has at least 33% equity against basically almost anything (for example, AhJh5d2s on Td6h4h, QdQs6d2h on QsJh8h, and Td9s8h6c on Kd7h6s). If you can handle it, try to pay close attention to your SPR and always try to get the last bet in because your opponents will often incorrectly fold out their equity (e.g., folding a T high flush draw + gutter vs. your CRAI with top set on Ks4s3d, or folding bottom two pair vs. your CRAI with ace-high + naked nut flush draw on KcJd6c).
Turn:
Basically same as flop, except that your draws are only half as good (and accordingly, your made hands are twice as good) on the turn than on the flop.
River:
On the river, basically nothing except the stone cold nuts is worth betting or calling with. Again, don't worry about thin value bets/hero calls when you're just learning.
Bluffing:
VERY SIMPLE: Don't bluff! The fact that you're betting a mix of draws/made hands already balances your ranges enough that people will incorrectly fold their equity against you. Note that betting ace high with the nut flush draw on an unpaired flop doesn't count as a bluff- you want to think of your hands in terms of equities vs. ranges, not in terms of "what's the hand I have right now if it were to instantly go to showdown".
Medium strength hands:
Easy game up until now- this is the tough part where as a beginner you'll not be making as much money where experienced players are. The most important thing to realize about this is... it's totally fine!! Sure it's -EV for a good player to pass on some of these spots, but it's really no big deal for now.
Most people learning poker try to learn how to play every hand in the most +EV manner. BIG MISTAKE. Poker is complicated. If your goal is to become an Olympic-level figure skater, then yes, you're going to need to learn how to loop, lutz, and axel. However no one learns to do that all at once, they learn how to skate in a straight line without falling down first. Poker is the same. Learn the basics (making nuts/nut draws and betting aggressively), get good at them, THEN you can worry about playing medium strength hands for thin value, hero calls, etc. But definitely don't try learning the poker equivalent of lutzes and axels until you can confidently beat the game playing nutty hands/draws.
So, since you'll end up in this situation a lot anyway... here's a brief guide on what to do. You can basically just deal with these medium strength hands by mixing up check/folding and bet/folding with them (putting more weight on an option based on whether the table is loose or tight, respectively). In general, you can always bet/fold TPTK/overpairs/2pair on uncoordinated flops, and continue with 2pair+ or good draws (8+ outs minimum) on safe turns. Learning to play these comes mainly with experience, by paying close attention to when good players go to showdown and seeing if their line with all 4 of their cards (not just the 2 that play) make sense. IMPORTANT: Always fold to aggression!
For a few examples, on coordinated flops, you basically want to have the nuts or a good draw to the nuts. No shame in folding AhJh5d2s on AdJdTh (2 outs to the nuts, 2 more to "probably the nuts"), QdQs6d2h on 9d8d2d (possibly drawing dead! very exploitable to fold to 1 bet but this is live pokers so lolexploitability. This one is a valuebet though if flop checks through), or Td9s8h6c on QcJd6d (a pair with 16 turn cards that can give you a straight may look really pretty but this hand actually blows! Note that you merely have 2 outs to the nuts!!).
So to summarize, if you're facing aggression and there's some possibility you could be drawing completely dead, don't be afraid to just muck hands like bottom two pair to a single bet when you're just learning the game even though a professional could continue with them profitably.
Finally, quick note about board texture. On extremely coordinated boards like 9d7c6h, TcTs8s, and Jd4d2d, an overpair is NOT a "medium strength hand" like it is on most boards. It's total trash.
Conclusion:
Wait a second Aesah, this seems too easy. Are you really telling me I can beat live PLO playing only premium hands with like 2 pages worth of knowledge? YES! Because although you'll probably end up with a few pros, the majority of your table should be recreational players playing a combined average of at least 85% VPIP and stacking off with hands like AhQsTs7d on 9s6s4d to find out they're drawing to 3 outs, 5h5s2h2s on AcQh5d to find out they're drawing to 1 out, and 6s5s4d3c on 8c7s5h to find out they're almost completely dead. If these hands look familar, that's because they're our trouble/trash hands from the preflop section... make sense why now
? These guys will lose lots of money at the tables... the veteran PLO sharks may get more of it than you, but if there's any justice in this world, you will get some too.Spoiler:
Good luck on the tables!
aesah what do you think is an appropriate bankroll for 25/50, in all seriousness?
had you lost that how would it have effected your poker playing for this week/month?
Last edited by gus1112; 03-16-2013 at 06:47 PM.
03-17-2013
, 05:31 AM
Thanks for the comments everyone!!!
Appropriate bankroll depends on your life situation. Are you working + can afford a decently high risk of ruin (obviously I don't expect anyone to go as "degen" as I went)? Are you relying 100% on your poker income to feed yourself?
OK well let me put it this way I guess. At a soft live game at any stakes, I think 1,500 big blinds is safe enough that you shouldn't worry about your bankroll at all, so for 25/50 that'd be $75,000 (holy **** I just realized I was technically 800bbs deep vs J... I had trouble wrapping my mind around the money at that point and completely couldn't calculate SPR at all). However if you're talking about tougher, more aggressive games where your winrate is smaller in terms of bb/100, then probably 5,000 big blinds.
Note that the game I was playing was actually closer to 25/50/200 since J is always straddling to $200, or maybe even like 25/50/600 since he's potting his straddle every time, so it constantly felt like I was going to go broke FOR GOOD REASON LOL.
If you ever lose half your roll, then move down in stakes to something half as big and you have 1,500 big blinds again! I think this literally gives you the statistical equivalent of ZERO risk of ruin assuming you're a winning player at 25/50, but if you can't move down (in other words, if you have $3,000 roll at 1/2), then your risk of ruin is probably still less than 1%-ish with 1,500 big blinds?
Honestly I don't know why I'm rambling about this, I'm not the expert lol there's lots of data/formulas on 2+2 about it where you can plug in a winrate/standard deviation/acceptable risk of ruin and it'll tell you exactly how aggressively you should move up in stakes.
Here's what happened that day- limon sent out the BATCALL to play with J, I got all the money I possibly could and had it all on the table: $19k, the rest of my net worth locked up in investments. So... if I had lost, I would have been browsing meetup.com a lot more and probably going to at least 1 a day instead of casinos. I honestly think a tiny part of my brain was actually hoping to lose so it'd be getting more fresh air! 
OK well let me put it this way I guess. At a soft live game at any stakes, I think 1,500 big blinds is safe enough that you shouldn't worry about your bankroll at all, so for 25/50 that'd be $75,000 (holy **** I just realized I was technically 800bbs deep vs J... I had trouble wrapping my mind around the money at that point and completely couldn't calculate SPR at all). However if you're talking about tougher, more aggressive games where your winrate is smaller in terms of bb/100, then probably 5,000 big blinds.
Note that the game I was playing was actually closer to 25/50/200 since J is always straddling to $200, or maybe even like 25/50/600 since he's potting his straddle every time, so it constantly felt like I was going to go broke FOR GOOD REASON LOL.
If you ever lose half your roll, then move down in stakes to something half as big and you have 1,500 big blinds again! I think this literally gives you the statistical equivalent of ZERO risk of ruin assuming you're a winning player at 25/50, but if you can't move down (in other words, if you have $3,000 roll at 1/2), then your risk of ruin is probably still less than 1%-ish with 1,500 big blinds?
Honestly I don't know why I'm rambling about this, I'm not the expert lol there's lots of data/formulas on 2+2 about it where you can plug in a winrate/standard deviation/acceptable risk of ruin and it'll tell you exactly how aggressively you should move up in stakes.
03-17-2013
, 05:57 AM
seems to serve its role perfectly.
03-17-2013
, 06:56 AM
03-17-2013
, 08:03 PM
