ty for the comments. I was typing previous post from phone, so it was pretty abridged. I have reasons for checking flop.

I'm finally home in Little Rock!!!!!!!!!!!! No more poker for awhile (probably a week-ish). Visiting friends and family.

Played 2 hours in Tunica, lost $67. Hand 1: Checked my BB with 6h5h, then check/raised flop and barreled the turn all in on a As9h7h9d board, he snapped with A9. Derp, bad timing. Made some back by bluffing old guys.

Played 2 hours in Metropolis, IL, lost $76. Hand 2: Played a nice hand where I raised pre with KQo over a limper, only one guy calls behind me. Middle age guy dressed nicely, made some comments earlier using the words "equity" and "ranges" (they were totally wrong). Recreational fish who thinks he's a poker hotshot is my read. Flop Kd9s7s, check/check. Turn 2h, I bet 2/3 pot, he minraises. He's repping like nothing on this board, I flat. River Jh, I check, he bets 1/2 pot, I call. He shows 44.

Hand 3: Won some small pots with cbets, then lost a bunch when this guy shoves a 5d3c2c flop (raised pot, 6 handed so SPR is quite low) and I overshove with 5h5s. A guy behind me folds Ac9c face up and says "I would have called if you folded because I would have had implied odds", lol. I'm up against A4o and board bricks out. Hmm. Boring hand if it wasn't for that guy's comment.

Back "home" in Cleveland with my girlfriend. Not sure what city I call home these days, heh. Played 3 hours of 1/2 PLO8 and was up $74.

Hand 4: Main hand in question was a really marginal edge river situation that comes up every once in awhile, fishy guy pots both flop and turn with obviously a strong hand on KT75r (I'm guessing KKxx), I'm holding QJ86r in the big blind. I check called flop because it was like 5 handed going into the turn, but on the turn I check, he bets, everyone folds and I'm last to act. Table has been paying off river bets with trashy hands so I felt good about my implied odds to call here. River is the best card for me, a 9, completing my K to 5 straight. Now here's my question. Pot is $180, opponent has $115 behind. I bet $100 (one stack of red chips), he grudgingly calls. Has anyone ever found fish more likely to fold here if I bet $115 instead of $100? Not sure if people are 15% more likely to fold if I make it an all in bet. /shrug. It's small but it adds up.

also I don't know why I keep playing these stupid PLO and PLO8 games that I barely know how to play lol

So that you can get better at them. Duh.

Or so that you can keep the Cleveland games well fed for donk regs.

I guess people fold a lot more to all-in river bets than to almost all-ins.

Fish thinks if you bet all-in you have the nuts.

I think is +EV to value bet almost all-in and bluff all-in.

I would have bet $115 on the river vs the fish. I can't really see his decision changing in that spot if you bet $100 vs $115. Against fish I overbet with my nutty hands when they have a strong range and never bluff. Pretty sure thats optimal vs fish.

Yea it's marginal anyway since it's a rare spot and a low amount of money. FWIW I almost always do the all in bet here (leading the river and expecting a call is why I called the turn!)

Played 3 hours of 2/5 NLH today, up $89. Won money on 3 hands. Hand 1: preflop squeeze for $115 from BB with QTo vs a guy who declared he felt like his next hand would be good for raising before being dealt in CO, he makes it $30 and gets 1 loose caller on button

Hand 2: Vs a supermaniac who raised pre pretty big (which he does with almost ATC), I flat on button with 66, he checks flop dark, I'm debating whether to call his 3/4 pot turn bet with 4th pair and a straight draw, and he announces that he'll check river dark if I call. Good enough for me. I call and check behind river (board is something like Jc8d7d4s7c) and I'm good. He doesn't show.

Hand 3: My first hand at the table, I make it $15 from EP with AQ. Only a half-stack calls me on my immediate left. He seemed like the kind of guy who likes action based on some of the stuff he's said after I sat down.

Flop J52, check/check.
Turn T, I check/call a pot sized bet.
River 9, I check/call a 1/2 pot bet. He shows 64 and talks about how bad I am at poker for awhile. I just smile.

Oh, I almost forgot. Hand 4: Immediate next hand (my 2nd at the table), I make it $15 with 55. He shoves for $75 total. I meh fold because although I think that while villain is both obviously super gambooly and tilted, he's also never expecting me to fold here as I've raised both hands I've played and called down with A high so I'm guessing he has a hand he just can't wait to get his stack in with. He doesn't show but FWIW he seems very disappointed that I folded and claimed he had 64s again.

I know it hasn't been that long in terms of hours (like 10-15ish), but since I've been playing poker sporadically it's felt like forever since I have been insanely card dead at NLH in St. Louis, Tunica, Metropolis (IL), and Elizabeth (IN), and now back in Cleveland. Haven't had JJ, QQ, KK, or AA a single time, only flopped a set once and lost a buyin on it, meh. I understand variance ofc but it's annoying.

Only solution is to play more poker

Played 3-ish hours and lost $77. Still annoyed at not really getting any real hands. Lost money on a hand where I raised to $45 with KJo pre over several limpers, some guy who seemed reasonably tight jams for $80 more. ~$80 for me to win $190, I need 29.6% equity. Close spot, I have 30.2% against TT+, AQ+. I called and lost vs QQ.

Won a couple hands where it went small bet, call, call, me c/r squeezing with a hand like bottom pair + backdoor flush draw on my big blind (once with A3s on T73r, once with J9s on A94r) and everyone folding. Doesn't matter what hand I have much, but doing so only when I have a tiny bit of equity auto-balances my frequency without me having to think about it.

Made me really think about preflop tightness vs. postflop tightness and how correlated they are in a player. Because I had hardly played any hands preflop at all, the table had barely see me win any pots so they gave my bet respect despite the fact that my AF was absurdly high. I used my table image to play like a maniac post-flop.

I'm curious how I should react when I see this pattern in other unknown players- the example that stands out in my mind is when I played against a lady who was extremely inactive in Metropolis, then minraised my large leadout (we are very deep) when I held AT on AT3hh. I didn't know what to do. I flatted, turn completed hearts and she bet again and I folded. Later, she had still won only that 1 pot by this time so still very inactive, I raised pre, she flatted OOP HU, and led out on a K33r board. I called with AQ, and bet a blank river and she folded (my bet obviously targeting small-ish pairs). But yea, in that first hand example, I felt like she was repping exactly 33, but since she hadn't won a single pot up to that point I thought there was a good chance she could have it. That's the same reason people folded to me yesterday. Perhaps bad to assume so!?

I dont like sitting at PLO or PLO 8 with you are your GF... I dont think anything shady is going on but I dont like to take my chances. Its also weird when she leaves the table bc its a horrible game but you stay and grind it out.

I personally feel that you are weak-tight but we havent played much together so dont take it from me. Just throwing it out there to let you know someones perception of your game as a player at the table. Now, your GF I have some respect for her game but I havent ever been involved in anything with her either.

PS, I dont play NL at all... Very rarely.

Been in Chicago for vacation, haven't played poker in awhile. I really want to play tonight though.

Hmm, nothing even resembling this that I can think of has ever happened. Not sure what instance you're referring to. Also we're not together anymore (but still on friendly terms). I might be leaving Cleveland fairly soon too. Possibly visiting east coast since I've never been there, possibly home to Little Rock to relax for awhile, possibly going to try living in west coast for the winter because screw cold weather.

Thanks for all the comments!

Re: shady. Can guarantee you we played vs each other like we play vs anyone else, most obvious example I can think of is that she has bet me out of a hand on the flop when a 3rd guy was all in preflop.

Probably going to quit updating this thread regularly, as it's not fresh, I'm not traveling, and it's not really that interesting for me to talk about random hands I've played anymore. Goals and challenges were a success IMO:

1) I still love playing poker, so much that I'd do it even if it were for no money
2) I'm confident that if I ever need cash, I can go to any casino and average ~$50/hr

Thanks again to everyone who followed!

Good thread. So you are still doing the mostly pro poker thing then? That's pretty good you've averaged over $50/hour is that since you started the challenge? Did you keep track of how many hours and total $$ won??

well my lifetime average is lower mainly due to running bad/playing bad at 10/25 and 5/10, but I think 1/3 and 2/5 are beatable for $50/hr. TBH I see lots of mediocre players who play for a living and make like $20/hr with huge, huge leaks and very poor understanding of poker theory.

To expand on that point, I mean I know not all 2+2'ers = poker pros, but I'm reading several different LLSNL threads right now and I mean... seriously!? Like the guys who post this trash know enough basics (don't limp UTG with J8o, don't limp AA then bet 1/4 pot every street) to beat the game, but yea, if guys who think like this can make $20/hr, I definitely feel good about at least doubling that.

^ JJ on K83 which ended up successfully picking off a bluff which would have folded to a cbet

^AJ on AT5, advocating 3bet/folding on the flop vs a raise

^the thread title for this one is "1/2--Spots to slow play? (2 hands)". Yes, a guy who folds rivers but calls two streets with 2 overs is a great villain to slowplay against. I MEAN WHAT. WHATWHATWHAT. Seriously the quality of 2+2 is kind of aggravating me right now, we're supposed to be the sharks, not the fish.

Oh to answer your other question, yes I do still plan to make the majority of my $$ playing poker even though I have the $25k/yr part time job.

Cool man, I gues that $15,000 would Probly make as decent dent in the hourly considering you've only been playing reg for a little while now. Good luck in the future

enjoyed this thread, wp op

Never thought you were doing anything shady. I would never state that here or anywhere if I wouldnt say it to you in person! What I am saying is that I just dont like playing at tables where couples are and that has happenend a few times w you guys.

About the games breaking and you staying. It was a 1/2 or 2/5 PLO8 and we started 4-5 handed and the game was bad. She left to play 2/5 NL probably and the game should have broken but you wanted to stay. Me, knowing that you werent great at this game (your words) was going to stay and play but the other players left as well. But you were willing to stay in a bad game.

Again, never would say you cheated/being shady bc your not IMO.

Good luck and I saw you there last night.

@Haarlem91: ty!

@cap217: Haha thanks! Yea I'm just having fun with PLO and doing an Ivey-style self-learning thing (which is not smart for me, IMO, but it's not terrible*), tbh I shouldn't play until I study up hand frequencies and some other stuff. I think most of the theory stuff carries over pretty well, but I have no clue what the chances are someone flopping a better hand than bottom two pair, what kind of equity that has vs. a wide calling range if I bet, etc.

The spots I have the hardest time are when I have like QQ87 on a board like 678r. What percentage of the time does someone flop a made straight and I'm drawing to 4 outs? Or when I have nut flush on a T65Thhh board. How often does someone have the boat vs wraps/trip tens/lower flushes? The sad thing is these are pretty basic questions I can go look up but I just haven't had the motivation to, since I'm not playing PLO that much anymore. In comparison, I know exactly what to do with AK on A84 rainbow since I know the frequency of flopping a set is 1/9. Meh, eventually I'll go study.

*don't think it's too bad because I definitely don't think I'm a fish in the game. I mean, last time I was in a preflop 3-way all-in for over 500bbs, one guy had 8872ss. Of course, fish never think that they're fish

Also, you should introduce yourself :P I'm bad at faces but if we played PLO together last night there's only like 3 faces you could possibly be, heh.

We didnt play together last night. I was playing 1/2 PLO. I didnt know there was a 2/5 PLO going but I rarely play that bc the games are so bad and 1/2 is better (well used to be, its drying up now).

I was the guy who asked about the Cleveland and bad roads while playing PLO8 or 2/5NL one day. You seemed surprised that I brought that up.

ooh ok, I remember that. I was really surprised since I had just got back from being in Vegas and Arkansas and hadn't even been in Horseshoe Cleveland for weeks, forgot I wrote about that in this thread so I thought you were replying to something I said in person like a month prior, hah.

Yea in my experience the 1/2 PLO has a lot more guys who will pay off 3 streets with 2 pair or something on a board with a possible straight.

I'll probably be there again today.

update?

Sure so I've been playing back where I started at Oaklawn (Hot Springs, AR). It's like the only place within 2 hours in any direction from it to play, and the poker room has only been open for about 3 years now or so (it's mainly a horse racing place).

Anyway, I've noticed players here are... particularly bad. I suspect the factors above play a big part. It's unfortunate that they only spread 1/2 but I'm pretty sure these small places absolutely crush larger poker rooms in terms of achievable winrates and it's not even close.

I recently had a discussion with a nice older man who basically said "I'm no good or lucky at poker, but I have nothing to do with my retirement check so I just go and blow it all here"- I asked him if he had ever studied it, and he looked at me blankly and said "studied??". Anyway yea. That's the average player here.

Since it's hard to make a pair or even like an OESD, people just don't fold them. My theory of how they don't notice that they're behind every time the money goes in is that basically ~4/5 times they make middle pair, they bet, and the other guy folds and they win. The other ~1/5 times they lose their entire stack (oh yea, another thing that sucks is most people play somewhere around 50bb. Oh well.). Anyway, they still think it's the right thing to do to bet with their midpairs because they remember usually winning with them, and in a way they're right.

~~~~~~~~~

Only thing is, Oaklawn is about an hour away from the city where I live (I could move closer but it's kinda an old people city). Temporarily staying with my parents for now. Anyway, I'm very strongly considering moving near LA in December. Reasons being to see the world, just for fun, etc.

I remember being really cheery while writing this thread but I'm kind of more depressed now. Hmm, no that's not really accurate. Let's say less cheery Like a 6.5 on the scale from 1 to 10 instead of a 9. Anyway, the reason I bring that up is because one of my most respected friends is convinced that I'm trying to find happiness in things that won't bring me happiness, such as moving to California. I'm still trying to come to terms with the possible truthfulness of that statement I guess.

Hmm, not sure what else there is to say. I have absolutely zero secrets, so ask me anything about anything

I live in NC...only really been to LA once (I also flew in, stayed at an aiport hotel, flew out next morning once, but that doesn't count) and I loved it. To me it was like being in a different country. I am very much intrigued by the west coast, including the desert areas such as Vegas...can't really explain it other than it's just way different from the east coast. There is SO much to do out there, I don't think you will ever get bored.