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I'm thinking about going (semi) pro, could use some advice from those who have done it. I'm thinking about going (semi) pro, could use some advice from those who have done it.

08-03-2023 , 11:10 PM
I'm thinking about going (semi) pro as a live poker player, and I was wondering if those who had done so could give me advice on things that I don't already have figured out. Basically, what I don't know I don't know.

SO... first:
  • This is not my plan A. Plan A is still to get a software engineering job, and I will continue applying. It's just that the market for software engineers is dead right now.
  • I'm in a good position, financially, to do this risky thing. I have a paid-off new car, $20k in savings, and my main expenses are medical insurance ($400/mo) and car insurance ($150/mo). I am (fortunately or unfortunately) living with my parents right now so I don't have to pay rent. This means my nut is relatively low.
  • I think I'm a good poker player. Sadly, live poker suffers from sample size problems, but I've been keeping track of every live session since I started playing poker in 2011, and it averages out to about $20/hr... but those error bars are massive.
  • I do have the support of my parents in this, though they also play Let It Ride, and the lottery, so I'm not sure that their confidence fills me with confidence.

Here's the plan:

Instead of treating poker as a side diversion, I'm going to actually make a go of it earning real income from it. This means going not when I "feel like it" but literally treating it as a job, or at least a part-time one, heading into the casino at least 4 days a week. (The other three? Still applying for programming jobs and taking care of other stuff.).

I plan on giving myself a "loan" of $6000 to use as my effective bankroll. That's 20 buy-ins at $1/3, the lowest stake offered at the nearest cardroom. If I lose that money, the experiment is over.

Because the rake at 1/3 can be steep, I plan on moving up stakes to $2/5 quickly. If I manage to make a +$5000 net profit; that's *after* subtracting the cost of gas, food and other necessities. If I dip below a $4000 net profit though, I will move back down to 1/3.

Here are some questions I have:
  • What is the best time for me to be "working?" The local poker room is open from 10am to 4am daily, 7 days a week. (Rivers Casino in Portsmouth, VA)
  • How often should I be taking breaks? I was thinking about taking a 1/2 hr break every 3 hours.
  • I have a stop-loss of 2 buy-ins *per day.* Just personal experience, but if I lose 2 buy-ins, even if I'm playing well, I'm going to lose the third through frustration/tilt, and having the daily stop loss plugs that expensive "leak". Should I have a 'stop-gain'? That is - is there a point where I've got too much money on the table in front of me? I'm thinking that if there's more than 15% of my bankroll on the table, no matter how soft the game is, I need to get up and walk away, book the win.

Mainly what concerns me though is the things I just haven't thought of or considered, and I'd love to hear from anyone that has "been there" and tried to have a go of it - succeeding or failing.
I'm thinking about going (semi) pro, could use some advice from those who have done it. Quote
08-04-2023 , 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KerryCoder
[*]What is the best time for me to be "working?" The local poker room is open from 10am to 4am daily, 7 days a week. (Rivers Casino in Portsmouth, VA)
The best time is when the most people who are playing the worst are there. Offhand, I would guess if you show up at 6pm and play until close (or you're too tired), that would be optimal, but every room is different.

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[*]How often should I be taking breaks? I was thinking about taking a 1/2 hr break every 3 hours.
No need to be so structured, unless that's something that helps you mentally.

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[*]I have a stop-loss of 2 buy-ins *per day.* Just personal experience, but if I lose 2 buy-ins, even if I'm playing well, I'm going to lose the third through frustration/tilt, and having the daily stop loss plugs that expensive "leak". Should I have a 'stop-gain'? That is - is there a point where I've got too much money on the table in front of me? I'm thinking that if there's more than 15% of my bankroll on the table, no matter how soft the game is, I need to get up and walk away, book the win. [/LIST]
If you feel you're going to tilt if you're up too much and start playing too loose, that's probably a mental hurdle you should consider trying to figure out and get over instead of using it as a way to leave early.

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Mainly what concerns me though is the things I just haven't thought of or considered, and I'd love to hear from anyone that has "been there" and tried to have a go of it - succeeding or failing.
1. If you have no job you shouldn't be paying $400/month for insurance, check to see when the next open enrollment for the ACA is
2. If you have 20k at your disposal and at least 500 hours on record of being profitable at 2/5, there's no reason to start at 1/2
3. Your biggest "test" is going to be stamina. In a residential area, you've pretty much got to put in 10 hour sifts on Friday and Saturday, in addition to probably 2-3 8-10 hour grinds during the week. If that's not something you're used to, it's something you need to work at and not beat yourself up over if you can't do it to start with. The goal is to figure out what allows you to stay focused and engaged for a long period of time, several times a week.
4. The way to study isn't taking one random hand you played and asking people what they think, it's studying solved ranges and then paying attention to the play and figuring out how your meta derivates from correct play and exploiting those tendencies. If your running commentary isn't "That guy 3b to 15bb, and they should do that with _____, but the average player here does that with _____ and this guy is better/worse/the same/a specific derivation of average, so he should have ______", you should work to get yourself to that point which honestly a lot of the time just takes hours and hours of play where you are paying attention to everything
5. Have fun, be nice. We're playing a children's game, and the people who are bad at it are the people paying your bills. Just because someone doesn't know sizing or ranges well doesn't mean they are dumb/rude, and if they lost 100% of the time they'd leave and never come back
I'm thinking about going (semi) pro, could use some advice from those who have done it. Quote
08-04-2023 , 11:22 AM
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If you feel you're going to tilt if you're up too much and start playing too loose, that's probably a mental hurdle you should consider trying to figure out and get over instead of using it as a way to leave early.
I'll be blunt.

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1. If you have no job you shouldn't be paying $400/month for insurance, check to see when the next open enrollment for the ACA is
I'm on the ACA and opted for the gold plan because I have health problems that will require me to do so.

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2. If you have 20k at your disposal and at least 500 hours on record of being profitable at 2/5, there's no reason to start at 1/2
I do not have 500 hours on record of being profitable at 2/5. I do have about 500 hours of being profitable at 1/2, but I take your meaning. That said, I'm not willing to put all 20k into my bankroll; unexpected expenses can come up. 6k is where I feel comfortable starting.

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3. Your biggest "test" is going to be stamina. In a residential area, you've pretty much got to put in 10 hour sifts on Friday and Saturday, in addition to probably 2-3 8-10 hour grinds during the week. If that's not something you're used to, it's something you need to work at and not beat yourself up over if you can't do it to start with. The goal is to figure out what allows you to stay focused and engaged for a long period of time, several times a week.
My plan was Fridays and Saturdays to be my big days, Thursdays and Sundays to be my medium-sized ones. I live an hour away from the casino, so I am factoring in commute times.

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4. The way to study isn't taking one random hand you played and asking people what they think, it's studying solved ranges and then paying attention to the play and figuring out how your meta derivates from correct play and exploiting those tendencies. If your running commentary isn't "That guy 3b to 15bb, and they should do that with _____, but the average player here does that with _____ and this guy is better/worse/the same/a specific derivation of average, so he should have ______", you should work to get yourself to that point which honestly a lot of the time just takes hours and hours of play where you are paying attention to everything
I feel confident that I'm there. I don't have GTO memorized, but at the table I do think in ranges both for the table and for individual players. I feel confident enough that I know these things that I'm willing to take she shot.

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5. Have fun, be nice. We're playing a children's game, and the people who are bad at it are the people paying your bills. Just because someone doesn't know sizing or ranges well doesn't mean they are dumb/rude, and if they lost 100% of the time they'd leave and never come back
Absolutely. I consider myself as providing an entertainment service. I don't needle, I don't slowroll. I try to be courtious. Or as my mother said, passing down generations of Irish wisdom all the way back to our roots in County Kerry: "Be a mensch, not a schmendrick"
I'm thinking about going (semi) pro, could use some advice from those who have done it. Quote
08-04-2023 , 11:30 AM
I lold at they play Let it Ride

good luck, sounds like you've got your bases covered
I'm thinking about going (semi) pro, could use some advice from those who have done it. Quote
08-04-2023 , 12:19 PM
Sounds like you've got a lot of things thought through well, so I think you've set yourself up for success as well as you can. The only things I'd say are, look at make the move to 2/5 sooner rather than later, and

Quote:
Originally Posted by KerryCoder



My plan was Fridays and Saturdays to be my big days, Thursdays and Sundays to be my medium-sized ones. I live an hour away from the casino, so I am factoring in commute times.
if you aren't used to putting in 40 hours over 4 days with a 2 hour commute each way, it's going to be rough. I don't know what the hotel situation is like up there but if you can get a place for under $100/night (or ideally crash at a friend's place close by) it might be +ev to get a place Thursday/Friday nights so you can just put in a few long sessions during prime times
I'm thinking about going (semi) pro, could use some advice from those who have done it. Quote
08-04-2023 , 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvolvedSavage
if you aren't used to putting in 40 hours over 4 days with a 2 hour commute each way, it's going to be rough. I don't know what the hotel situation is like up there but if you can get a place for under $100/night (or ideally crash at a friend's place close by) it might be +ev to get a place Thursday/Friday nights so you can just put in a few long sessions during prime times
That's a good idea, actually. There's a Days Inn about 6 minutes from the Casino which is $62 a night. That might be an excellent idea if it means being able to stay till the wee hours without worrying about crashing on the drive home, and picking up the next day. It also makes sense because it cuts down a back-and forth to the casino (-$8) and 2 hours commute time which I can instead spend at the tables. If I avg +$27 an hr, the extra 2 hours I pick up is EV neutral. It sounds like a good plan.

I can probably also negotiate a lower rate if I'm able to book repeatedly and in advance.
I'm thinking about going (semi) pro, could use some advice from those who have done it. Quote

      
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