I think you took what I said out of context. Naturally if we are better then everyone at our table without a straddle, we are better than them with a straddle.

What I meant was there is no situation where straddling is better then not straddling.

I also disagree with the 3 handed situation which has been discussed a ton on this forum.

Yes your effectively playing higher stakes on your button and you act last pre and OTF, but the 2BBs you put in will not be as profitable as just playing the button normally.

Yes we are still +EV in both situations but we just lowered our ev in both spots by straddling, but we are still profitable.



As far as shortstacking I could see that being the case at 25/50 but I'm talking about 5/10 and below . I could imagine that being the case at 25/50+ cause unless there is a spot sitting deep you can probably get the regs used to playing 150bb deep to make terrible mistakes against your stack as opposed to being more neutral with deep stacks.

Yeah your post was very good and I just kind of latched onto one thing to debate so sorry about that. I think both the spots I mentioned are massively +EV but will come up so so rarely playing live that it doesn't matter much. Getting everyone to straddle is awesome, you have a huge skill edge over your table and get them to play double the stakes with you which is great. Three handed I think straddling your button is a no brainer. I'm going to minraise 80% of buttons anyway, might as well do 100% and get last action. Additionally, a lot of people are very unfamiliar with this spot and will adjust poorly.

I stumbled across your thread some time last week, and it came at a nice time as I had just made the decision to leave uni myself (in England), and it's nice seeing all the positivity in your life beyond education. I can't properly relate to the poker unfortunately, I'm almost a complete beginner and hope to make it something of a hobby in the summer. I read through from start to finish and no doubt I'll be reading it again at some point, very refreshing. Keep crushing the live donks.

PS Did you ever meet Rachel Starr?

No I was actually away with baseball and couldnt go.

Sucks.

This thread really inspired me Rob, just read through the whole thing.(Also gotta wake up in 5 hours for my $10/hr weed whacking job lol)

I'm in pretty much the same situation you were in at the start, just turned 21 a few weeks ago, no bills really, and I've been thinking about taking a shot for a while. Gonna work on my game and seriously study this summer saving up hopefully like a 2k roll to go with in Sep/Oct range. (Living about 30 min from AC)

GL, I'll definitely be following this thread.

Brian

Good thread
Seems odd you don't color up

Nice thread. Subscribed! I'm hopefully gonna be doing the same thing as you at the end of the summer.

Color ups don't happen often at Foxwoods. The dealer trays at 1/2 and 2/5 are mostly reds/whites. You can't color up if 1) there are no greens/blacks in the tray, or 2) they recently had a fill and the tray doesn't have the room to add stacks of reds to it.

There's a few reasons I don't color up.

1. Easier for me to know exactly how much I have at all times. (2.8k a little ridiculous but when it's like 1300 and you have some green some red it can get confusing.)

2. I like the way it looks.

3. Most importantly it adds to my winning image. It's a concept discussed by Bart Hanson and having mountains of chips makes it clear to others that I am a winner in the game and it makes them not want to float/play back etc...

you should short stack 5/10 for a few hundred hours and compare that to sitting deep at 2/5--- youll be pleasantly surprised, as long as you understand how to play short effectively

preparing for 2+2 rant

Explain?

GL YOU GOT IT BRO

I'm Human After All (thank God)

Title pretty much says it all. Just got back from a 2 day stint at Foxwoods and I basically just want to write my thought's down ITT as I want to be able to reference this in the future. Also for the people who actually read this I haven't been able to update as I have been incredibly busy with baseball and didn't play poker the last weekish or so. Coming back from 2 days of play.

Firstly I went to Foxwoods on Sunday afternoon after a double-header of baseball in New Haven (about half way to casino for me), went right after my games to Mohegan sun for some lounge food. I took a quick shower when I got to Foxwoods and then immediately got on the grind.

I stayed up there with my parents as they got a room and were attended a show at Mohegan that I got them tickets for, they loved it

My session on sunday actually went quite well. Off the top of my head I can not really remember any huge pots or anything but I think I played good and I can give myself a solid B for my overall play on the day. Played roughly 7hrs from 5-12 and then went upstairs to sleep. I ended up +540 at 2/5, was pretty happy with my play.

The negatives-

I have spent a lot of time ITT saying the things I think are important in live poker. Before I touch on what happened to me tonight (monday session) I just want to state them and why I think each one is important.

In order of importance.

1. Ego
So much money is won and lost in this game due to people having ego issues. The biggest one in this category is people afraid of folding the best hand. Playing poker against a range of hands means that sometimes you are folding the best hand, but sometimes you are folding to a guy who is at the bottom of his range. If you are too concerned with how you "look" or that you are just really annoyed when you get "outplayed", that is a huge leak.

Good players don't get outplayed. Outplayed references the long run. Surely there are times where you get completely crushed in a hand. I talked about a hand a while ago where some young girl like 3x pot 4b my l/rr with 52o when I had JJ. Did she "outplay" me that hand? I guess. But I hold one of the two hands I would ever fold in that spot (JJ/1010) and I think I am not going to see this nonsense bluff too often. How often does that happen? Almost never. Did it bother me? No. I know that her spew costs her tons of money in the long run and I think I played my jacks in a way that is going to make the most money in the long run. This particular hand I got "owned". Does that make it a bad play? No.

Ego makes a ton of good players into mediocre players. I think a common scenario is flashy younger internet players (I am certainly in the "internet" group, but I am not flashy, I'm quiet) that think they are so much better then everyone else that they can open Q10o UTG and 3bet 53ss.

These plays are not profitable live. The reason kids make plays like that is out of ego. There is not a single player I have ever encountered that can realistically insert 53ss and regularly 3bet it as a profitable play. Their thinking ties into balance (which is so overrated live) and fold equity. Balance is not important (most of the time) and fold equity is almost never there against a standard limp happy guy that opens. They just want to show their 1337 poker skills and have everyone admire them.

As much as I am aware of the difficulties of online > live, the live reg types have the worst egos of them all. Berating fish, playing on tilt, giving everyone at the table constant lessons etc. Why does the older guy need to tell you he has been playing this game since before you were born? Hint: rhymes with "weego".

The younger (and better) influx of poker players into the live arena has certainly challenged their ego and now they need to say every little thing they can to boost their own ego and display their alpha-maleness. Not to mention the money. I'm sure some of them are just a-holes by nature, but it gets magnified in a poker room because the general guidelines set by society are often overlooked in a casino environment.

Put simply, poker is a game of math. There are other nuances as well but ultimately, a flush draw will not beat a set. Why is that the case? Mathematically it is impossible. Certain playertypes will void all sense of reason and make erroneous plays because of their ego. Whether it is a young kid 3betting too light, too often, or an old guy berating some drunk for cracking his aces. Making plays for any reason other then to pad your wallet is fundamentally flawed and very likely an incorrect play.

Check your egos at the door people. Inflate your wallet, not your head.

2. Poker Skill/Applying it at the Tables

This is not as self-explanatory as it may seem. Certainly we all get the "good players make money, bad players lose money" idea (I hope).

In depth- good players can be bad players due to misapplication of what they know, or other things holding them back.

When I first starting playing live I was playing breakeven-slight winner at best poker. I am not all that great of player now, but I am 100x better then I was when I played my first session at Mohegan sun (my first hand AKo in the BB, check option and c/f fold, great times).

I am not that much better now because I miraculously figured out how to 3bet aces or how to raise with the nuts. Certainly my game is gotten technically better due to study/experience but in my opinion I have elevated to the level of player I am today (I am not cocky) by learning how to apply what I know. Generally speaking, knowing how to build a house is only a useful skill if you actually grab a hammer and build a god damn house.

How many people know that straddling is incredibly -EV but do it anyway? How many people give the old "I know I'm beat but I call" and do it anyway? How many people know that drinking/continuing to play while tilting is bad but do it anyway? Tons. There are a million examples I could give where good players make plays that they know are bad because they don't care enough to adjust. For example, in my Sunday (winning) session I folded KQo in the BB to an MP raise because I don't want to 3b and I know playing KQo OOP against this guy is unprofitable. In my Monday (losing) session I called with KQo in the BB and knew it was -EV as those 5 red chips went in the middle. It's only 25$ right, been card dead lets go. This is an example of my poker knowledge being superior to my opponents, but not executing the correct play for whatever reason. Why would I (or anyone) do that?

There needs to be an aspect of control along with your knowledge of pot odds and equity distribution. Knowing the correct play is only good if you make the correct play.

I put poker skill as #2 because you will never make correct long-term plays if your ego won't allow you to. Ego-management is that important in my eyes. Great players are only great if they make great plays.

3. Adapting to your Situation

One thing that always baffled me (and I did/do this too) is that people will play shorter sessions when winning and longer sessions while losing.

The reason for this is they psychologically (ego) want to book a win, and they psychologically (ego) want to not book a loss.

Let's say we hold 88 against a complete maniac who has a super wide bluffy 3b shoving range with his 400$ remaining stack. We are up 200$ at the moment after the money we put into this pot. He shoves 400$. Mathematically in this situation we know we are well ahead of his range and calling here is profitable. Let's make the bet 600$ in the same spot, 1000$ in the same spot, doesn't matter. If we are ahead we should always call. I know there are people that completely change their game based on whether they are winning or losing.

Now lets say we are stuck 300$ in the same spot. We are pretty much snapping this off because we have a great chance to get even or slightly ahead. This thinking is flawed. The money value is always the same, it's either +EV or -EV. The only exception here would be a bankroll/variance concern.

Obviously my example is kind of extreme/specific so I'll give you a realistic one from my own experience.

When I had that sick may month I was up 9.5k on may 29th or 30th or whatever.

I had originally planned to leave early morning on the third day of my trip after playing for two days. When I woke up on the third day I looked at my poker journal and noticed the 9.5k and decided 10k sounded so much better. I had baseball practice at 5 and it was 11ish am. Was seriously contemplating playing just to reach 10k so I could know i made 10 grand in a month. Why the hell does that even matter? I was tired, had a commitment I wanted to be focused for, and had absolutely no reason to play. I didn't. Why was I considering putting myself in a -EV (or at least less +EV) spot? 1. Ego. A lot of bad poker related decision can be tied back to ego. Fwiw I didn't play and left as planned.

4. Becoming Emotionally Attached
Poker is game that is about making money. Not fun, not socializing (for me). Geez. That makes me sound miserable. The few of you who read my thread that actually know who I am can hopefully vouch that I am not a miserable ******* but as far as my view on poker that is it. Of course people play for different reasons but my statements there are directed to the more hardcore guys who actually want to get better/make a living whatever.

I will not softplay anyone. Anyone. First off I think it is completely and utterly against the spirit of the game and is completely unfair to the other players at the table. Saying that your only softplaying HU pots is not an excuse. Softplaying in poker is a terrible instance. You should only play with friends if
1. Your close enough to lose money to each other and not care. It should have no bearing on the outcome of hands. If your friends folds to cbets too much you should cbet him to death.
2. You both want to play and there is absolutely no other option.

For instance, I am in the sb with A A. Player A opens in MP to 30$, player B is on the button with J J, normally he would always 3b this for value but its his buddy and it's just jacks so lets see a flop.

In the instance I have lose the extra 6-7BB from the 3bet OTB. Softplaying in any form affects everyone.

Emotional attachment to money, people, or hands is a mistake. You need to be able to drop 2 buyins and keep grinding if the game is good. You need to be able to fire a third barrel is its profitable.

I was listening to Bart Hanson's podcast on my way home and he had Tommy Angelo on this episode. Tommy is/was a mindset coach whom has coached a fair amount of high stakes guys. He mentioned how one of his students said that lost an amount of money that could of put of parents into a condo in florida for five years.

Now, I'm not exactly losing that kind of money but the thousands that cycle in and out (mostly in though son) can not have any emotional affect on me.

The classic poker example is the losing session that may cause a guy to be pissed off the rest of the day. I do my absolute best to keep my poker life completely isolated from my personal life and I would suggest everyone to do the same. Being pissed off you lost is bad, but it also bad for you to be too happy when you win as well.

There is not one person who gets regular 100% details of how much I won or how much I lost. Not my parents, not my best friends, not my baseball coaches, noone. Standard line is always "yeah fine". As I'm sure with most of you who spend hours upon hours in casinos, people get annoying and ask.
Winning never feels as good as losing does bad.

This Trip
So as I wrote earlier, started out good (+500) and I ended up dropping (1.5k) on Monday.

So on the trip I lost one thousand dollars. I hope my tone in the earlier portion contained a bit of my frustration. I would also like to state, it is not the money that got me down. I've lose more then that in a day and when your buying in for 500 a pop, dropping 1500 in a game is not all that bad (money wise). Super standard to lose that much. I understand that.

The reason I am so frustrated with this session and also elected to drive home early, is that I played bad. I also think it's because I kind of forget what a big loss feels like as I have been running godly of late.

I made mistakes at the poker table. Some regarding ego, some technical mistakes, just a very sloppy session. I started off +300 too and ended up -1.5k.

An example. I am stuck roughly 500 at this point.

Decent black dude raises 25 UTG and I have AK. Folds to me in MP and I elect to flat. 3betting here is a mistake as it is turning AK into a bluff and I want to keep his weaker A's K's in his range. His UTG range is going to be tight as well as he is certainly positonally aware and we are 100bb deep. With 100bb stacks I am not a fan of 3b folding AK. He would probably expect me to 3b AK so it may widen his calling range a little bit more. Lol @ him 4betting anything worse then KK tho (live game so predictable).

One guy called behind me and flop comes K 9 3

He bets 35, I make it 125 and original raiser shoves for like 3 and change more.

What hands is this guy 3b shoving the flop with. I was hoping for AQhh AJhh or maybe a chop.

Those are the only 2 hands I can beat, and AJhh might even be a limp for this guy UTG.

Of course I tank called and he had aces and I'm drawing to 2 outs. Sucks.

At face value this hand looks like a cooler, it's not. It is total spew by me and I played the hand differently because I had a chance to get even. Big pots with 1 pair live = not a great idea. Especially against an UTG raiser who 3b shoves a Khigh flop. I also thought he might put me on a draw and value shove QQ or JJ. Very lol rob.

The fact is that I played very bad and completely ignored my own advice. I was absolutely glued to this game (that wasn't very good) because I wanted to get unstuck. I took no breaks, didn't eat, just lit a few benjamins on fire. I would much rather get 2 outted 3 times in a row that having to know that I lost money due to my own ego. Terrible.

Frustration really sucks. I was actually too frustrated to even want to walk over to a guy at a table next to me that happens to have read some of my thread and said he liked it. Sorry! Buy you a beer next time lol.

Success comes from Failure

With this trip I made mistakes I should never make again. I am man enough to say (or type) that I played really bad and made bad poker related decisions.

The good news is that I should never make those mistakes again.

I usually listen to a Bart Hanson podcast on my way to/from casino and the way home I stumbled on a perfect one to hear. It was Bart Hanson talking to Tommy Angelo about being a poker player. No strategy, just tilt management, when to quite etc stuff like that.

It was really good to hear and I might even pick up one of Tommy's books cause I think I could benefit from it, he came across quite well on the show.

He said some very interesting tilt control techniques that I'll have to try out. (I'm really not a tilt monkey just overall frustrated today.)

Thanks for reading guys....

@robbyrobbb on twitter obv

sorry to hear about your loss. I think we all have the same problems, some day your decission logic is just all screwyy. I bet you have a funny feeling in the back of your head when the flop hit too huh?

any way hope you will get back to it soon. here's a little something to refresh your memory before next session

http://youtu.be/EqDhORV_dPs

nice post, i can relate to it.

I was pretty happy when the flop hit cause I have a blocker to AA and people dont cbet KKK there too often.

Well said...I think its important to have a terrible session every now and then, keeps your ego in check and you can often learn a lot looking back on a losing session. Im sure you realize this though.

I think Im gonna subscribe to that podcast, Ive heard a few of them...pretty good stuff. Im guessing its well worth the subscription fee? I watch LATB sometimes which I think is a good way to learn live NL cash. You ever check that out? What better way to become a better 2-5 player than to watch a live 2-5 game with commentary

Anyways dont know when I'll be back at FW, hopefully can find some time in the next few weeks now that I'm owed a beer lol

Just read first two pages and like what I see - so replying as an auto-sub so I'm able to go back and read the rest tomorrow!
Played against you on Stars - cant recall any specific pots but always nice to recognize a name here and there. Best of luck with the grind (except against me of course)

I actually dont subscribe to his podcast.. Probably will at some point.

I subscribe to Crush Live Poker which is basically where he reviews hands that are played on LATB. He also plays sometimes and he reviews his thought process and says why he did the stuff he did. IMO it's it's well worth it at 10$/mo.

I think that because of this:

3-betting is the right play in the hand above.

If you get 4-bet it's an easy fold and if he flats you can play perfectly against him. If he folds it's not too bad either.

Here is the problem with that line of thinking-

He raised UTG- he is positionally aware and will not ever 4b anything less then KK/AA. If he 4bets me, yes, super snap-fold.

When I 3bet and he calls his range should look something like 88-QQ,AK.

He will not call OOP with any dominated aces, so basically I am looking for him to fold pairs that I am flipping with. (turning AK into a preflop bluff)

His calling range (88-QQ,AK) is not going to fold to me to me on a 10 7 6 board, etc. I am going to have to double barrel him off of a strong pair, and with 100bb stacks this is not a good idea. When deeper it's a little different.

I do not like getting involved with competent UTG raisers, their range is way too strong and money doesn't come from double/triple barrel bluffing them off an incredibly strong range, it is a mistake.

Calling is superior because - 1. An UTG raiser is going to cbet just about any board, including A high ones.
2. I have position and want to keep stacks deep.
3. Weaker players call with weak aces behind me and I can get a lot of value on Ax boards. If I 3bet they are folding.

Fwiw I don't have very much history with this guy but I can tell he knows at least a little because I hear him talking about specific hands of HSP and insight into his thought process, so I can assume he knows a decent amount. Another reason talking at the table hurts your bottom line.

you often mention never talking about strategy or 2p2 or anything that conveys a solid image at the table.
but, when you talk about coloring up your chips, one of your reasons against it is:

(not that i agree with this, i've been at plenty of tables with stacks in front of luckboxes)
don't you think that logic is somewhat of a contradiction?

I see what your saying but my logic in keeping volume of chips is to deter players from floating/bluffing me because "he's running good today." (winning image)

If I understand you correctly your saying that keeping a ton of reds let's others know that I'm likely a winning player. Even if I had 2k in greens couldn't they come to the same assumption? The reason I keep it in red is because having tons of physical chips looks more intimidating than a couple stacks of higher denom chips.

In a way it is contradictory, the main difference is that having tons of chips ---> it's my lucky day (winning image)

Talking about polarized 3betting ranges and optimal cbet frequencies ---> this guy knows a lot/kills the fun of the game/fish don't want to play vs you.

Reciprocality
http://tommyangelo.com/articles/reciprocality/

Reciprocality is a concept discussed and popularized by Tommy Angelo. It also happens to be one of my favorite things to think about/envision while at the tables.

Basically, reciprocality is where "edge" comes from in poker.

Before anything flows, there must be a difference. Between different elevations, water flows. Between different pressures, air flows. Between different poker players, money flows. - Tommy Angelo.

The idea of it that whenever I play my cards differently then you would have, there is a reciprocal edge between one of us. Trivial decision are not where money is made. For example, 92o UTG is a fold for about 99% of players in LLSNL. I have no edge over any of my opponents in this situation. When I am playing against a 40bb stack and get QQ into AA, there is no edge. Both situations would happen transpire the exact same way if the cards were reversed.

Now lets look at 77 in MP after 2 limpers.

This is a situation that is going to very from player to player. Aggressive players confident in their postflop skills are going to raise and play a pot in position with the lead. Tight old guys are going to limp and "No set no bet".

Which makes more money?

Pretty clearly it's the raiser. If he plays good after the flop, he is clearcut making more money than the guy who just limps.


Think of every hand of poker. Think of the enormous number of hands played on the internet, and then add to that every hand played in home games and casinos. Now think of that sum total of all hands, broken down to street by street. All those streets. Millions, billions, whateverillions, it's a lot. Now consider this. Every one of those streets has this in common: someone goes first, and someone goes last. - TA

Positionally reciprocality is probably the biggest amount of "edge" I see used/lost in live poker.

People do not understand that you can play a much wider range in position then not. Again, weaker reg type players simplify the game as much as possible. It isn't the worst thing in live cause the games are so soft, but it is incredibly exploitable to anyone paying attention to their tendencies. They play out of a playbook and have:
1.Hands I play
2. Hands I don't play
3. Hands I play for 5$ only (or 2$, whatever, limping hands)

Making adjustments to your ranges based on position is a very important concept. Not only for "balance" (I hate balance, it's just an excuse to spew) but because it is +EV to play A8ss OTB if conditions are right.

Understanding Reciprocality and how it Applies to LLSNL
Reciprocality is where your money comes from. In the long run, we all get the same number of hands in the same position, over and over again. As the skill gap between winners and losers continues to get close and closer, understanding the mistakes your opponents make and you don't make allows you to properly exploit them.

On the flip side, understanding the mistakes that you make and your opponents don't make is equally important (to better your game).

Example of reciprocality at work -

Hand at Mohegan sun- Me and mr 40 something regular are like 1100 deep at the 800max buyin game.

I look down at AA UTG. I raise to 30. A super fish flats me with his 500$ stack. Mr Old Reg(MOR) 3bets it to 125, folds to me. MOR does not 3bet squeeze lightly and it's qq+ maybeeeee AK.

2 options
1. Call.
2.Raise.

I elect to call because 4betting turns my hand pretty faceup and wouldn't be suprised if MOR folds KK here as I am very unbalanced in this spot. Plus I want fishy to call. He does.

(375)Flop: Q 7 2 rainbow. I check, fish shoves 3 and change, old guy snap raises all in and I call.

MOR had KK and fish had some queen or something, don't remember.

The point of this hand is to look at how I may have played it differently then MOR. Yes. I was lucky to get AA vs KK. Obviously had the cards been reversed I am not folding kings to a single raise from this guy, but I am also not losing 1100 to him like he did to me. I win more then he would of had the cards been reversed = edge.

Let's flip the cards, now I have KK and he has AA.

Would he of raised to 30$ UTG? Yes.

Would I 3bet kings on the button after a fish called his open. Yes.

Same so far.

When it gets back to him is he adept enough to know flatting a big 3bet with AA and laying the fish odds to call with his junk is going to be more +ev then 4bet bombing my 3b? Probably not. "I just want to win it now!"

When he 4bets my button 3bet am I going to 5bet ship 1k+ into him? Absolutely not. A line from MOR of r/4b is not getting much more action from me. I'de call the 4b and probably fold most flops, which isn't a great play. I have folded kings once in a spot like this and was right, but depending on whether or not hes tilted would kind of define my decision.

The point is that whenever you play a hand more profitably then your opponents, you have an edge in that spot.

Is it lucky to get AA vs KK? Certainly is, but when the cards are reversed he is not winning as much as I am, and thus, I have an edge in this spot.

Great concept. If your ever bored one day I suggest reading the article I linked at the top.

...
no, YOU said that...in the post i quoted...

absolutely, which is why i stated that i didn't agree with that at all...

this is what it sounds like you're saying to me:
having stacks and stacks of chips = good intimidating
talking strategy = bad intimidating

dude, just say you like chip porn!