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Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

05-29-2018 , 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
In the Lojack, I'd fold ATo pre. But this hand is the very bottom of my Hijack opening range. Whilst it's not a mistake to fold pre, I don't think it's a mistake to open either.
You didn't open, you squeezed. if your playing low variance you should just fold that crap pre flop. I don't see a problem with a small cbet though.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-29-2018 , 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Checkmaker
So he had a backdoor flush with his pair of tens?
Nope. Naked pair of tens. And he even called a river jam too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
You didn't open, you squeezed. if your playing low variance you should just fold that crap pre flop. I don't see a problem with a small cbet though.
No, squeezing is when you either 3bet or 4bet pre after a raise and 1 or more callers.

Opening is when no one raises pre and you're the first one to raise it up.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 12:18 AM
You isolated 2 limpers, call it what you like but not just an open, and your often behind limping ranges so its not a spot where you need to get involved with ATo a hand with poor implied odds.

Last edited by mirage01; 05-30-2018 at 12:28 AM.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
....

Opening is when no one raises pre and you're the first one to raise it up.
lol no it ain't
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 12:49 AM
Come on guys. What about the jam with queens over the huge OMC 3bet. That was pretty creative.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Come on guys. What about the jam with queens over the huge OMC 3bet. That was pretty creative.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 01:40 AM
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Schroedinger's TwoPlusTwo

Welcome to 2p2: the forum where bluffing is "lighting money on fire because people never ever fold", but value betting top pair is "way too thin, you're never getting 3 streets of value from this hand".

Your opponent's hand is simultaneously too weak to call a value bet, but too strong to fold to a bluff bet.
Don't worry OP, there is always a 5/10 table waiting to be outplayed.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 02:08 AM
OMC be like, "GOTCHA!" :

Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 03:24 AM
Dropped $639 at 1/3

When I sat down, I initially ran well and played well. I doubed up my stack within 20 minutes by opening AJo and triple barreling a Jxxxx board against a station that called me down with TT.

Then I proceeded to lose my big stack, rebuy twice and eventually leave before donking off 3 buyins. Towards the end, I made some decisions which were okay in theory, but terrible exploitatively. And it always tilts me to know that the huge pot I lost wasn't simply a cooler, but was a spot I could've avoided. Here are some examples:

Hand 1: Kind of a cooler?

2 limpers
We limp HJ with 55 (as much as I hate limping with a fiery passion, this is one of the few spots when I will allow myself to do it)
Both blinds come along

Flop ($14, 5ways) is Qs 9s 5d

4 checks
We bet $15
SB calls $15
MP calls $15

Turn ($54, 3ways) is Qs 9s 5d Td

2 checks
Hero bets $50
SB folds
MP calls $50

River ($143, HU) is Qs 9s 5d Td As

MP donks $60
Hero sigh calls $60
Villain shows Ks Jh

Not only does he get there, but he plays it awfully too.

Hand 2: Fistpump stackoff in theory, but fold exploitatively

5-handed
UTG folds
Hero ($300) raises $15 CO with QQ
BTN folds
OMC ($197) 3bets $88 SB
BB folds
Hero 4bet jams $197 effective
OMC calls with KK and holds

65bbs deep and 5-handed. QQ feels like the nuts. Yet the sick thing is, we can still fold this exploitatively.

Hand 3: Not a cooler at all. Borderline spew.

Some information about villain: he's a MAWG and plays on the loose-passive side of the spectrum. I just saw him limp-call a $55 3bet UTG with AKo and I've never seen him open raise yet. $400 stack.

Villain raises $13 UTG (at the time, I read too much into his sizing, thinking he'd probably make it a round $15 or $20 or even $25 if he had a high pocket pair. I thought that $13 opens aren't typically nutted. But I was just overthinking it. When the same player that limp-calls AKo UTG now decides to open raise, that should've been all the information I need to find a fold here preflop.)
HJ calls $13
Hero 3bets $60 CO with Ah Js
Villain calls $60
HJ folds

Flop ($122, HU) is 9h 4h 4d

Villain checks
Hero checks (I finally come to my senses that villain is extremely pocket pair heavy in this spot, and even if he does have AK, he probably calls a Cbet half the time anyway, so I don't even bother trying)

Turn ($122) is 9h 4h 4d 6s

Villain checks
Hero checks

River ($122) is 9h 4h 4d 6s Jc

Villain bets $100
Hero sigh calls $100 (I'm not sure if we can fold the river as played. We beat TT and AK but we lose to 99, JJ, QQ, KK and AA)
Villain shows QQ and scoops

So yeah, that summarises my session. It was a mix of running bad and making plays which were completely fine in theory, but terrible exploitatively.

Now $11,928 up at live poker.

Life Update:

So tonight is my second last day of work. My last day is Saturday night. After this, I plan on signing up to the gym and maintaining a daytime sleeping pattern, which I've just started adjusting to.

Someone asked me when I'll start posting my bankroll instead of my profit. Well I plan to start doing that from next week onwards, after I receive my last pay cheque from work. That will be the time when I can completely separate my bankroll from my liferoll and withdraw a fixed amount weekly.

That will also be the time when I'll start logging the number of hours played too, as well as the start and finish times. I have a phone app that can do that for me, but I figured that I'll wait until the day when I actually go pro before I start keeping detailed records of all my hours played and my wins and losses.

I'm excited for next week!
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Dropped $639 at 1/3

When I sat down, I initially ran well and played well. I doubed up my stack within 20 minutes by opening AJo and triple barreling a Jxxxx board against a station that called me down with TT.

Then I proceeded to lose my big stack, rebuy twice and eventually leave before donking off 3 buyins. Towards the end, I made some decisions which were okay in theory, but terrible exploitatively. And it always tilts me to know that the huge pot I lost wasn't simply a cooler, but was a spot I could've avoided. Here are some examples:

Hand 1: Kind of a cooler?

2 limpers
We limp HJ with 55 (as much as I hate limping with a fiery passion, this is one of the few spots when I will allow myself to do it)
Both blinds come along

Flop ($14, 5ways) is Qs 9s 5d

4 checks
We bet $15
SB calls $15
MP calls $15

Turn ($54, 3ways) is Qs 9s 5d Td

2 checks
Hero bets $50
SB folds
MP calls $50

River ($143, HU) is Qs 9s 5d Td As

MP donks $60
Hero sigh calls $60
Villain shows Ks Jh

Not only does he get there, but he plays it awfully too.

Hand 2: Fistpump stackoff in theory, but fold exploitatively

5-handed
UTG folds
Hero ($300) raises $15 CO with QQ
BTN folds
OMC ($197) 3bets $88 SB
BB folds
Hero 4bet jams $197 effective
OMC calls with KK and holds

65bbs deep and 5-handed. QQ feels like the nuts. Yet the sick thing is, we can still fold this exploitatively.

Hand 3: Not a cooler at all. Borderline spew.

Some information about villain: he's a MAWG and plays on the loose-passive side of the spectrum. I just saw him limp-call a $55 3bet UTG with AKo and I've never seen him open raise yet. $400 stack.

Villain raises $13 UTG (at the time, I read too much into his sizing, thinking he'd probably make it a round $15 or $20 or even $25 if he had a high pocket pair. I thought that $13 opens aren't typically nutted. But I was just overthinking it. When the same player that limp-calls AKo UTG now decides to open raise, that should've been all the information I need to find a fold here preflop.)
HJ calls $13
Hero 3bets $60 CO with Ah Js
Villain calls $60
HJ folds

Flop ($122, HU) is 9h 4h 4d

Villain checks
Hero checks (I finally come to my senses that villain is extremely pocket pair heavy in this spot, and even if he does have AK, he probably calls a Cbet half the time anyway, so I don't even bother trying)

Turn ($122) is 9h 4h 4d 6s

Villain checks
Hero checks

River ($122) is 9h 4h 4d 6s Jc

Villain bets $100
Hero sigh calls $100 (I'm not sure if we can fold the river as played. We beat TT and AK but we lose to 99, JJ, QQ, KK and AA)
Villain shows QQ and scoops

So yeah, that summarises my session. It was a mix of running bad and making plays were completely fine in theory, but terrible exploitatively.

Now $11,928 up at live poker.

Life Update:

So tonight is my second last day of work. My last day is Saturday night. After this, I plan on signing up to the gym and maintaining a daytime sleeping pattern, which I've just started adjusting to.

Someone asked me when I'll start posting my bankroll instead of my profit. Well I plan to start doing that from next week onwards, after I receive my last pay cheque from work. That will be the time when I can completely separate my bankroll from my liferoll and withdraw a fixed amount weekly.

That will also be the time when I'll start logging the number of hours played too, as well as the start and finish times. I have a phone app that can do that for me, but I figured that I'll wait until the day when I actually go pro before I start keeping detailed records of all my hours played and my wins and losses.

I'm excited for next week!

Another thing i personally find hilarious as this thread progress is the combination of the way you write your posts, and the way you choose to articulate yourself. You often comes across writing as the "teacher" when youre posting, giving your readers lessons and giving off the impression that you are blasting off from your huge base of knowledge and experience through the years. When the reality is the total oposite- youre the student making bad choices over bad choices through the course of this thread, and at the same time repeatedly displaying a total lack of humbleness and being open to actually listening to input youre getting from posters 10 times more experienced than you.


When you make repeatedly fancy play syndrome or spewy plays,ranging people in fantasyland,running into the overpair heavy range of a tight passive UTG opener, or obviously running into the KK+ 3 bet range of OMC, we dont need you to school us on these things, just sayin- because we know it already. Several LLSNL posters have been trying to tell you alot of these things over and over again in countless threads. Some truly felt humility and taking all the good advice you are getting more seriously would have come along way for you.Maybe because you dont seem interested in learning from people that are better and more accomplished players than you,rather than giving off the impression that you know everything in poker already- and you know it better than anyone that played and survived the game for 8 years, 10 years or 15 years.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Yeah I've watched a few of his vlogs. He seems like a fish though. I'd rather watch someone who's at least somewhat decent at poker, like Andrew Neeme, Brad Owen, Matt Vaughan or JohnnieVibes.
I've watched several of Jaman's vlogs too. He's definitely not a fish in the games he plays. Based on what I've seen of Andrew Neeme and Brad Owen's vlogs, Jaman's are probably more applicable for someone playing low stakes than either of theirs.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 06:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam001
Variance can be worse than you ever thought possible. Top winning players can go on breakeven/slightly winning streaks for periods of 100-200k hands easily
Not in live poker where edges are much much bigger than online.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwaySushy
Nah, just jam QQ over an OMC 3bet, print money.

Easy game.
I do find it fascinating that he thinks he can beat the game for 10bbs/hr and yet still makes a costly mistake that even most losing live low stakes regs wouldn't make.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
I've watched several of Jaman's vlogs too. He's definitely not a fish in the games he plays. Based on what I've seen of Andrew Neeme and Brad Owen's vlogs, Jaman's are probably more applicable for someone playing low stakes than either of theirs.
This. A million times over.

Consider this:

Vibes is a true crusher, but he is willing and able to get into the games he plays for OP's entire roll. Should be a a lesson there. One of the best we get to see play can lose $6k in a single session. At 5/10 where OP is willing to shot take.

Neeme has said 4 or 5 times in the past year that he steps down in stakes when having a bad run or a bad session. Guy has like an $80k roll and still plays mostly 2/5. Lesson there, too.

Most advice in this thread is A) play more conservatively until your roll is bigger and B) live a lifestyle that is balanced in a way that supports your poker goals. Jaman has achieved that balance. Family, friends, hobbies, work, workouts, and poker.

He also plays more of a LAG style that many suggest is unnecessary at these stakes. He will 3bet nits who limp TT and AK with 24suited and either steal in position or fold when they show any interest. Meanwhile OP is looking for spots to bluff OMCs leading into him from early position.

Jaman ain't no fish and he is exactly who OP should be watching.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusJack
This. A million times over.

Consider this:

Vibes is a true crusher, but he is willing and able to get into the games he plays for OP's entire roll. Should be a a lesson there. One of the best we get to see play can lose $6k in a single session. At 5/10 where OP is willing to shot take.

Neeme has said 4 or 5 times in the past year that he steps down in stakes when having a bad run or a bad session. Guy has like an $80k roll and still plays mostly 2/5. Lesson there, too.

Most advice in this thread is A) play more conservatively until your roll is bigger and B) live a lifestyle that is balanced in a way that supports your poker goals. Jaman has achieved that balance. Family, friends, hobbies, work, workouts, and poker.

He also plays more of a LAG style that many suggest is unnecessary at these stakes. He will 3bet nits who limp TT and AK with 24suited and either steal in position or fold when they show any interest. Meanwhile OP is looking for spots to bluff OMCs leading into him from early position.

Jaman ain't no fish and he is exactly who OP should be watching.

I havent watched that much of Jaman, but i think he obviously is doing alot of things right for beating low stakes games at a good rate. That being said, even though he sometimes lags it up like you say, i am not neccesarily convinced that these light 3 bets for example with garbage like 2-4 is padding his winrate at all longterm. Just because he is doing it, doesent mean it is a good play- just want to point that out. Alot (and i mean ALOT) of players suffers from fancy play syndrome at a regular frequenzy, wellknown vloggers is no exception in my opinion.

I know at least 2 or 3 young guys at my underground club who would be total crushers if they could manage to show more humility, and put away all the FPS stuff that they cant stop themself from doing. 2 of them would absolutely destroy the games if they could get rid of their fancy play syndrome (because they are very naturally talented technical players with an amazing hand reading ability). But as the situation is with OP- they are self named new hot shots in the pokerworld who doesent take advice from anybody.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
I havent watched that much of Jaman, but i think he obviously is doing alot of things right for beating low stakes games at a good rate. That being said, even though he sometimes lags it up like you say, i am not neccesarily convinced that these light 3 bets for example with garbage like 2-4 is padding his winrate at all longterm. Just because he is doing it, doesent mean it is a good play- just want to point that out. Alot (and i mean ALOT) of players suffers from fancy play syndrome at a regular frequenzy, wellknown vloggers is no exception in my opinion.

I know at least 2 or 3 young guys at my underground club who would be total crushers if they could manage to show more humility, and put away all the FPS stuff that they cant stop themself from doing. 2 of them would absolutely destroy the games if they could get rid of their fancy play syndrome (because they are very naturally talented technical players with an amazing hand reading ability). But as the situation is with OP- they are self named new hot shots in the pokerworld who doesent take advice from anybody.
Yea I'm in agreement with you about it not being the best way to play. I was more thinking since OP likes to play a little "fancy" it would be worth watching. I think Jaman does it better than most and seems to know where he is at in relation to the field.

On second thought, it is probably bad advice for OP. Jaman has a salary and that 401k. He can afford to LAG it up. OP should watch Bikeking. Lol

It's hard for people to learn. Andrew and Johnnie set pretty good examples. Both have stated they have lots of respect and have learned things from Jaman. My guess is OP would think they are just stroking his ego so they can get him in their games. Make the stakes real big and get him to dip in to that retirement fund.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 07:39 AM
You should stop saying "up X at live poker", instead post your current poker bankroll + liferoll numbers after every session.

We don't care how much you're "up" if you spent $1.2k on a phone and $200 a week on expensive restaurants, DUCY?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMeRightRound
You should stop saying "up X at live poker", instead post your current poker bankroll + liferoll numbers after every session.

We don't care how much you're "up" if you spent $1.2k on a phone and $200 a week on expensive restaurants, DUCY?
Yup, but why OP isnt doing that is quite obvious- because the remaining bankroll number doesent look near as pretty as what his total winnings is for the year.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 08:44 AM
It’s fine, once he flips a switch after leaving his job officially (integrating the habits of: tracking sessions + cutting spending + fixing diet + working out + sleeping better, all in one day) everything will turn around. White magic is a powerful thing...

I’ve seen the whole “tomorrow I’m gonna change my life” people all too often in my own life. People need to realize that building habits doesn’t happen overnight and that trying to jam a bunch of lifestyle changes in at once is a recipe for failure. It’s a long, arduous, and necessary process that must be taken seriously with great discipline to achieve. The thread thus far is a clear testament as to OP’s lack of discipline (making personal rules and breaking them in the same week, shot taking under rolled, keeping lavish spending habits after suggesting cutting costs, etc...). Everything seems easy to jump into cold turkey when inspiration levels are high but once that wears off you’re left with only discipline to maintain.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensimuse
It’s fine, once he flips a switch after leaving his job officially (integrating the habits of: tracking sessions + cutting spending + fixing diet + working out + sleeping better, all in one day) everything will turn around. White magic is a powerful thing...

I’ve seen the whole “tomorrow I’m gonna change my life” people all too often in my own life. People need to realize that building habits doesn’t happen overnight and that trying to jam a bunch of lifestyle changes in at once is a recipe for failure. It’s a long, arduous, and necessary process that must be taken seriously with great discipline to achieve. The thread thus far is a clear testament as to OP’s lack of discipline (making personal rules and breaking them in the same week, shot taking under rolled, keeping lavish spending habits after suggesting cutting costs, etc...). Everything seems easy to jump into cold turkey when inspiration levels are high but once that wears off you’re left with only discipline to maintain.

Excellent post. My life experience is the same regarding the "tomorrow i am gonna change my life" people. Vast majority is very good at talking about all the changes they are gonna pull off, but when it comes to take action not so much.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 09:10 AM
folding the queens would probably be more of a costly mistake than jamming guys, not sure if you are all trolling OP but lol if you're not
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 09:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenoblade
folding the queens would probably be more of a costly mistake than jamming guys, not sure if you are all trolling OP but lol if you're not
Just out of curiosity: how much livepoker have you played? How many hours have you logged in live 1/3 games?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
Just out of curiosity: how much livepoker have you played? How many hours have you logged in live 1/3 games?
I always wonder this too when people put a true omc showing pre flop aggression on anything less then KK or can't fathom a V flatting with TT or JJ or AK. ****....I opened to 15 the other day from UTG with QQ and got flatted by KK in the hj and AA otb.

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Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci
Just out of curiosity: how much livepoker have you played? How many hours have you logged in live 1/3 games?
I'm not sure given most of my volume has been online for the past 11 years, I'm guessing I play around 200 hours live a year, admittedly I have played very little low stakes, most of the volume is 5/10+ but I still have played with old nits and QQ is just not a fold, may consider folding JJ but not queens in CO vs SB vs a shortstack
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
05-30-2018 , 09:27 AM
Most old nits are going to flat you with QQ, they're only 3! KK+.

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