Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

10-30-2018 , 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Because the logic used to reach that statement could also be used to dictate that we should fold KK preflop to a 3bet.

If you'd instead used logic like "let's give him 100% combos of {QQ+, AK} and nothing else", then the best option would then be to flat the $160 and stack off on any flop without an Ace or King on it (since I expect an incoming Cbet from the nit's whiffed AK in a 1 SPR HU pot).

But no one told me to flat the $160 and gii on favourable flops. Everyone told me to fold instead. Which means everyone thinks that villain has very few combos of AK in his range and is more weighted towards just KK+, which means we should be folding KK in this spot too, which is ridiculous.
kk doesnt fold against that range, qq is marginal
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 04:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Because the logic used to reach that statement could also be used to dictate that we should fold KK preflop to a 3bet.

Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 04:40 AM
Hand 4 must be straight trolling
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 04:44 AM
6B It's clearly game over. Take the money and run.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 04:57 AM
Hand 7: Punt of the day

$25 effective
MP raises $0.75
Hero calls $0.75 BB with 98cc

Flop ($1.60) 7c 3h 2d

Hero checks
MP bets $0.80
Hero raises to $2.60
MP calls $2.60

Turn ($6.80) 7c 3h 2d Ac

Hero bets $4.65
MP calls $4.65

River ($16.10) 7c 3h 2d Ac 2s

Hero jams $17

Spoiler:
MP calls $17 with As Qd (TPGK)
GG stack


I think flop and turn is okay, but I should've given up on the river. The board pairing is bad for me because it cuts down on sets I could have flopped.

Hand 8: Too aggressive?

$24 effective
MP raises $0.60
BTN calls $0.60
Hero 3bets $2.95 SB with A7ss
BB cold calls $2.95
MP folds
BTN calls $2.95

Flop ($9.45, 3ways) Qc Js 6c

Hero bets $3.72
BB calls $3.72
BTN folds

Turn ($16.89) Qc Js 6c Ad

Hero jams $17
BB calls $17

Spoiler:
BB has AKhh and holds


I could be wrong, but I feel like every street is pretty marginal. I don't think this was outright spewy... or was it?

Hand 9: Luckboxed this one

$26 effective
Hero raises $0.60 MP with Js Jc
CO 3bets $2.15
Hero 4bets $4.70
CO calls $4.70

2 things I'm not sure about: my decision to 4bet, and the sizing of my 4bet.

Flop ($9.75) Jh 7c 2h

Hero bets $3.12
CO raises to $6.91
Hero calls $6.91

Turn ($23.57) Jh 7c 2h 8c

Hero checks
CO jams $14.14
Hero calls $14.14

Spoiler:
CO shows Ac Ah
We dodge the 2 outer and double up here


So overall, the session hasn't been going great today. I've been put in a lot of f**ked spots and I'm still not clairvoyant enough about the pool's tendencies for me to maximally exploit them. But I'm going to keep pushing on and posting more hands as they come.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
Hand 4 must be straight trolling
How's this trolling?

The guy who squeezed was short-stacked (only like 50bbs), so I'm obviously stacking off QQ against him.

The player in MP had shown so much weakness and I expected to see a hand like 77-TT, maybe some AJs/KQs/AQs as well. Since my hand is so vulnerable, I'd rather just jam pre than end up in a locked pot with very low SPR and not know what to do on a Kxx or Axx flop.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:04 AM
And you never reconsidered that read when he flatted your 4 bet with the betting still open?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
And you never reconsidered that read when he flatted your 4 bet with the betting still open?
No, I just assumed he was some sticky fish that couldn't fold a medium strength hand.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:22 AM
If your roll is 20k* why not just shot take 200nl online?

*More like 17k now but still.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Hand 7: Punt of the day

$25 effective
MP raises $0.75
Hero calls $0.75 BB with 98cc

Flop ($1.60) 7c 3h 2d

Hero checks
MP bets $0.80
Hero raises to $2.60
MP calls $2.60

Turn ($6.80) 7c 3h 2d Ac

Hero bets $4.65
MP calls $4.65

River ($16.10) 7c 3h 2d Ac 2s

Hero jams $17

Spoiler:
MP calls $17 with As Qd (TPGK)
GG stack


I think flop and turn is okay, but I should've given up on the river. The board pairing is bad for me because it cuts down on sets I could have flopped.

Hand 8: Too aggressive?

$24 effective
MP raises $0.60
BTN calls $0.60
Hero 3bets $2.95 SB with A7ss
BB cold calls $2.95
MP folds
BTN calls $2.95

Flop ($9.45, 3ways) Qc Js 6c

Hero bets $3.72
BB calls $3.72
BTN folds

Turn ($16.89) Qc Js 6c Ad

Hero jams $17
BB calls $17

Spoiler:
BB has AKhh and holds


I could be wrong, but I feel like every street is pretty marginal. I don't think this was outright spewy... or was it?

Hand 9: Luckboxed this one

$26 effective
Hero raises $0.60 MP with Js Jc
CO 3bets $2.15
Hero 4bets $4.70
CO calls $4.70

2 things I'm not sure about: my decision to 4bet, and the sizing of my 4bet.

Flop ($9.75) Jh 7c 2h

Hero bets $3.12
CO raises to $6.91
Hero calls $6.91

Turn ($23.57) Jh 7c 2h 8c

Hero checks
CO jams $14.14
Hero calls $14.14

Spoiler:
CO shows Ac Ah
We dodge the 2 outer and double up here


So overall, the session hasn't been going great today. I've been put in a lot of f**ked spots and I'm still not clairvoyant enough about the pool's tendencies for me to maximally exploit them. But I'm going to keep pushing on and posting more hands as they come.
H7 flop and turn fine, would only bluff shove non-board pairing rivers. Jam isn't terrible but he's more inclined to hero with 88-KK because your value range is basically just 54s and sets. You don't raise sets at 100% frequency on this dry board and 54s should be a 3b at some frequency.

H8 mega spew, snap fold A7s facing action. If you are 3b'ing here, you are just squeezing way too many hands from the SB.. Open snap fold flop, this board smashes their range and you're literally just owning yourself c-betting here with almost 0 equity. Even when you turn the A, I'm somewhat confident that you shoving here is at best breakeven and at worst pretty -EV. You're literally drawing dead vs JJ/QQ (which I expect a lot of when BB cold-calls here), you're dead vs occasional fishy players calling K10 sooooted pre, and you're basically dead vs AK if he floats vs your cbet (definitely floating AKs BDFD).

H9 JJ doesn't belong in a 4b range MP vs CO generally. It serves better as a flat.

You need to stop playing so spewy. Especially live. It's dragging your winrate down. Do you care enough to stop? You're literally torching money off your hourly online and live because you make ******edly spazzy plays like these. Basically every hand history you post has at least 1-4 spazzy/overly aggro plays that basically involve you torching 30-100%+ of your stack unnecessarily, and are definitely -EV.

You may be running bad at the moment, but I can guarantee that if you didn't make so many mistakes every session and spaz/donk off stacks (which would result in having a higher winrate), you'd most likely be [-3, +2] BIs instead of 9-11 BI down.

Last edited by Minatorr; 10-30-2018 at 05:39 AM.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMSS
If your roll is 20k* why not just shot take 200nl online?

*More like 17k now but still.
Because I don't think I'm currently a winning player at 200nl online. I want to earn my way up to 200nl by slowly developing my skills and showing success at 25nl, 50nl and 100nl over large sample sizes.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:37 AM
Even in online, unless it's LP vs blinds, 4b/GII w/ QQ is around a BE play or -EV. E.g. 4b/gii w/ QQ UTG vs BTN/SB/BB 6-max is usually a losing play, and they'll show up with a disproportionate amount of AA/KK.

GII'ing with QQ full-ring UTG vs BB 3b is just torching money. Especially vs a nit reg. In general, you can't go wrong with just GII'ing with KK/AA in full-ring live, unless there's some dynamic like aggro dude 3-betting all the time and you have JJ/AK+, or BTN vs SB/BB where the 3-bettor has a history of 3-betting less than JJ+/AK+.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:41 AM
Hate to burst your bubble, but if you're playing this way after you have been playing online for years and years, I seriously doubt you'll get to 200NL anytime soon, if ever. Your ranging of other players/3b frequencies/squeezing frequencies/cbetting tendencies are way off, among many other things.

The fact that you think you can just keep playing/studying loosely and get to 200NL "eventually" is pretty delusional and arrogant. Very few people can ever get there, no matter how hard they study or try. In a way, nowadays you have to be born for online poker. For the most part, midstakes online players are not only hard-working, but extremely gifted (top 0.3% or higher of poker players). And I can guarantee you are not top 0.3% of poker players, especially when you factor in your mental game. Why do you think so many people get stuck at micros for years and years despite working so hard and playing/studying all the time? Ask yourself. Why are you at 25NL even though you've been playing online for what. 3-4+ years?

It's like saying anyone can get into an Ivy League school as long as they push through, and study and study and study. That's not true. You have to be extremely intelligent, and ALSO work your ass off. Posting hand histories here and there on 2+2, and getting coached by a friend does not constitute working your ass off either.

You're getting golden advice to ignore online games. But you're just too hard-headed. Not to mention, as Dluo said, there is an opportunity cost to you playing online, especially in the short-run. You could be using that time to study live poker and/or making a better hourly. If anything, you playing online reduces your EV at a live table since it seems like you can't properly adjust. You play way too ******edly aggro in both games, and that'll just fuel each other, especially online to live. I mean, if torching stacks upon stacks doesn't bother you, just keep doing you.

Last edited by Minatorr; 10-30-2018 at 05:55 AM.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Because the logic used to reach that statement could also be used to dictate that we should fold KK preflop to a 3bet.
no
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
I'm lucky we were only 110bbs effective... I think I would literally have stacked off 300bbs pre in this spot against MP, if he 7bet backjammed $75 after flatting the initial raise and flatting the 4bet.
new challenge: how to burn through 20k playing 25z
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:52 AM
Hand 10: Priced in everytime

$23 effective (I'm shortest stack, everyone covers)
Hero raises $0.60 UTG with 7d 7s
MP calls $0.60
BTN 3bets $2.50
SB cold calls $2.50
Hero calls $2.50 (seems like a profitable set mining spot?)
MP back 4bets to $9.90 (for f**k's sake)
BTN calls $9.90
SB calls $9.90

At this point I stop and frantically try to do maths in my head whilst my time is counting down... can I profitably set mine here? It's only $7.40 more to call and I'm closing the action. Time is running out and I just say f**k it and click the call button.

Hero calls $9.90

Flop ($39.85, 4ways) 9c 6h 4h

Well I missed my set, time to x/f I guess...

SB checks
Hero checks
MP jams $12.90 effective against me (actually more)
BTN folds
SB folds

Suddenly I start reconsidering... maybe I can call it off after all? Maybe he just has a whiffed AK or something? I'm closing the action and getting a great price. And worst case scenario, I've still got like 10% equity against an overpair, right?

Hero calls $12.90

Spoiler:
MP shows Ac Kd
Turn brick river brick
Hero scoops a $66 pot with a pair of 7s
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:54 AM
Mixing micro online and live 2/5 will just hurt your game. You have the amazing ability to consistently do dumb sht. You got your loan a few days ago and already wheels are falling off.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:57 AM
Lul. Calling 43% of your stack preflop with 77.... Just gold.

"Priced in everytime"

That's what fish and regfish say in justification of terrible calls they make.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Hate to burst your bubble, but if you're playing this way after you have been playing online for years and years, I seriously doubt you'll get to 200NL anytime soon, if ever. Your ranging of other players/3b frequencies/squeezing frequencies/cbetting tendencies are way off, among many other things.

The fact that you think you can just keep playing/studying loosely and get to 200NL "eventually" is pretty delusional and arrogant. Very few people can ever get there, no matter how hard they study or try. In a way, nowadays you have to be born for online poker. For the most part, midstakes online players are not only hard-working, but extremely gifted (top 0.3% or higher of poker players). And I can guarantee you are not top 0.3% of poker players, especially when you factor in your mental game. Why do you think so many people get stuck at micros for years and years despite working so hard and playing/studying all the time? Ask yourself. Why are you at 25NL even though you've been playing online for what. 3-4+ years?

It's like saying anyone can get into an Ivy League school as long as they push through, and study and study and study. That's not true. You have to be extremely intelligent, and ALSO work your ass off. Posting hand histories here and there on 2+2, and getting coached by a friend does not constitute working your ass off either.
one more hater to prove wrong
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 06:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
At this point I stop and frantically try to do maths in my head whilst my time is counting down... can I profitably set mine here? It's only $7.40 more to call and I'm closing the action. Time is running out and I just say f**k it and click the call button.
I'm legitimately confused how you think this is 1) close 2) a call after some thought and 3) what you think the math is that makes it even remotely close to a call. What?


Last edited by .isolated; 10-30-2018 at 06:06 AM.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
No, I just assumed he was some sticky fish that couldn't fold a medium strength hand.
Take a look in the mirror. YOU are the sticky fish who cant fold a medium strength hand
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 06:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Hand 10: Priced in everytime
this post is some of your best work.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 06:15 AM
Finally....5220 posts later, we get 6bme 6 betting. /thread
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 06:20 AM
You've played 9.5 hours of 2/5 over a three day period and now decided you're going to take a break for a couple of days from playing live to play on-line?

Your weekly nut is about $600 a week, including an estimated payback on the principal of the loan. Time is going to run out quickly if you don't get your head on straight and start playing.

FWIW, I don't think Galfond was playing at vastly different stakes on the two sites when he was trying to hit his nut.

Last edited by venice10; 10-30-2018 at 06:25 AM.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
10-30-2018 , 06:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minatorr
Hate to burst your bubble, but if you're playing this way after you have been playing online for years and years, I seriously doubt you'll get to 200NL anytime soon, if ever. Your ranging of other players/3b frequencies/squeezing frequencies/cbetting tendencies are way off, among many other things.

The fact that you think you can just keep playing/studying loosely and get to 200NL "eventually" is pretty delusional and arrogant. Very few people can ever get there, no matter how hard they study or try. In a way, nowadays you have to be born for online poker. For the most part, midstakes online players are not only hard-working, but extremely gifted (top 0.3% or higher of poker players). And I can guarantee you are not top 0.3% of poker players, especially when you factor in your mental game. Why do you think so many people get stuck at micros for years and years despite working so hard and playing/studying all the time? Ask yourself. Why are you at 25NL even though you've been playing online for what. 3-4+ years?

It's like saying anyone can get into an Ivy League school as long as they push through, and study and study and study. That's not true. You have to be extremely intelligent, and ALSO work your ass off. Posting hand histories here and there on 2+2, and getting coached by a friend does not constitute working your ass off either.

You're getting golden advice to ignore online games. But you're just too hard-headed. Not to mention, as Dluo said, there is an opportunity cost to you playing online, especially in the short-run. You could be using that time to study live poker and/or making a better hourly. If anything, you playing online reduces your EV at a live table since it seems like you can't properly adjust. You play way too ******edly aggro in both games, and that'll just fuel each other, especially online to live. I mean, if torching stacks upon stacks doesn't bother you, just keep doing you.
It's actually not as hard as people make it out to be to get into a good university, including the Ivy League schools in the USA. I think that any reasonable intelligent teenager who attends all their classes and studies for 1-2 hours a day after school could do it. You're acting as if only Albert Einstein and Magnus Carlsen could get into Harvard, and anyone with an IQ below 140 is doomed. That's not the case at all.

Fwiw, I got accepted into the top university in my country (ranked 32 globally) and the only thing it took was for me to attend all my classes and do a few hours of study per week. I eventually got kicked out for failing too many subjects though... do you know why? Because I stopped attending class. I skipped about 70% of my classes at the uni and did almost no study outside of class. To me, that indicates that raw intelligence isn't a very big factor in academic success: attending class and working hard is a much bigger factor. People with average intelligence can get high distinctions in all their classes if they work hard. I've seen it.

I've only properly played online for a few months. For the most part, I've been playing primarily live for the past 4 years.

Whether or not I'm currently in the top 0.3% of poker players is irrelevant; what matters is whether I could be in the top 0.3% after some hard work studying population tendencies and learning how to correctly exploit them.

Honestly, the way you're talking sounds very bitter. It sounds as if you're struggling to beat mid stakes online yourself, and you couldn't bear the thought of some new guy coming in and beating the games you've been struggling with for years. That's why you're getting so defensive about how difficult the games are. You don't want to see me succeed at something you fail at, because it will make you feel inadequate in comparison. The same goes for all the other people who blab on about how difficult small stakes online poker is. If it's too difficult for you then fine, feel free to give up, but don't expect me to do the same.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote

      
m