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Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals

07-17-2018 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey D. Clown
Hero has $17.73 stack (indicates fish)
You beat me to it. lul.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 06:31 PM
Hi OP.

I've read quite a few pages of this thread and firstly wanted to say GL, but also wanted to just weigh in with my 2c given that everyone else has.

If I'm being honest you seem to lack humility. The impression I get is that almost everyone is a fish to you. A lot of the plays you make with AJo or KQo you would blast the other players for doing. You also have a justification for everything; "I've seen this guy 3 bet J9o before", well I've seen guys bluff but it doesn't mean they're always bluffing.

If you think about it, the games you play (25nl and 1/3 live) are fishy. There's loads of value to be had and money to be made. You could flat the AJo, you could flat the KQo, if the board comes J high when you have AJ you're going to print money just betting pot on 3 streets but instead you seem to want to put yourself into ridiculously high variance situations.

You clearly do have some idea of what you're talking about so why not just play small ball pre-flop and hard and fast post flop?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Don't donk into me, son

$350 effective
$6 straddle
1 limper $6
CO raises to $21
Hero 3bets to $65 with AQ (no spade)
CO calls $65

Flop ($131) is Js 6s 5c

CO donks $50
Hero flats $50 (I decided to float flop rather than bluff raise. I'm never folding here)

Turn ($231) is Js 6s 5c Kh

CO checks
Hero jams $285
CO folds

First of all, I am not a good live player! So how I analyse this may not be good for live poker BUT theoretically you should be using small size on turn. Your entire value range wants to bet small on turn since the K is a good card for range. By betting small with entire range on turn you can even value bet hands like AJ and QQ. That being said, fish live might spaz out vs a small bet so maybe jamming does better? I dont know..

Quote:
A spot I struggle with
Definitely a 3b bb vs UTG although would not GII with JJ vs UTG. Seems like a decent call down hand. Once again you need to do population analysis to justify calls like this.

I think I worked out what your biggest Poker problem is. You don't adjust your strategy to population. This was (still is) something I struggle with myself. I try and apply my online strategy to a live setting and get absolutely murdered because it is
1. 9handed
2. unbluffable

Also, when I started playing on ignition following the Australian online poker ban, my stars strategy was getting smashed because the population plays so differently + its anonymous. It took me around 50-60k hands to realise that it was not working so I had to completely revise it.

I also try and play too gto at times which leads me to lose value bets or ambitious marginal call downs.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 08:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
So your argument is that, just because you can't beat 50nl, that means I can't either?



I would argue that my style of play is more suited to online tbh. Often I find great spots to bluff and hero call, but I can't make those plays because they just don't work at 1/3 live.







Except people can make $300+/hr online, so the edges aren't that small. And you can level out variance a lot faster online too. There's no such thing as a 1 month downswing online, if you're a winning player.







Not currently using one, since I play on an anonymous site. I used to use HM2 on Stars though, so I'll probably get that again.


It’s one point basically

You need to make money and there is no way in the world that it’ll be easier to make money play poker online than live
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 08:40 PM
It's great that you're jumping around games, studying new strategies, testing things out and seeing what works, finding what is best for you. But shouldn't you have done that before "going pro?"
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 10:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skuzlad
First of all, I am not a good live player! So how I analyse this may not be good for live poker BUT theoretically you should be using small size on turn. Your entire value range wants to bet small on turn since the K is a good card for range. By betting small with entire range on turn you can even value bet hands like AJ and QQ. That being said, fish live might spaz out vs a small bet so maybe jamming does better? I dont know..

Definitely a 3b bb vs UTG although would not GII with JJ vs UTG. Seems like a decent call down hand. Once again you need to do population analysis to justify calls like this.

I think I worked out what your biggest Poker problem is. You don't adjust your strategy to population. This was (still is) something I struggle with myself. I try and apply my online strategy to a live setting and get absolutely murdered because it is
1. 9handed
2. unbluffable

Also, when I started playing on ignition following the Australian online poker ban, my stars strategy was getting smashed because the population plays so differently + its anonymous. It took me around 50-60k hands to realise that it was not working so I had to completely revise it.

I also try and play too gto at times which leads me to lose value bets or ambitious marginal call downs.
Hmmm I never really thought of betting small. I just assumed that jamming for maximum fold equity would be the best play. That makes sense though.

I guess I struggle because I remember watching one video by a winning Stars reg where he flatted QQ in the blinds against a UTG raise and said that it was too face up to 3bet and he'll often just flat his entire range there. I'm still learning which hands are 3bets against which opens.

So how do we do a population analysis? Do you buy millions of hands from someone and then use Excel or something to figure out what the population tendencies are?

Yeah true that it can be tough to make proper adjustments sometimes. Sometimes it just feels a bit sick to make a certain fold in a certain spot and it's hard to bring myself to do it. Like if I open AKs on BTN and a super passive player 3bets from the SB. It feels so sick to fold there.

I am starting to think though that the online poker ban in Australia was a blessing in disguise. Stars was a very tough site to beat, but Ignition seems kind of easy. Having all the American fish, instead of the Eastern European regs, makes win rates go up so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
It’s one point basically

You need to make money and there is no way in the world that it’ll be easier to make money play poker online than live
Dude look at the hand histories I've been posting:
- People call off 83bbs pre with 99
- People call 3bets with hands like 75s and QTo
- People make spazzy plays like the KQo hand before
- People stack off Q7s vs ATs for 100bbs pre at 200nl

It's honestly not as hard as you're making it out to be. Maybe you just had a bad experience with Stars and you're projecting that on to the softer sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogarse
It's great that you're jumping around games, studying new strategies, testing things out and seeing what works, finding what is best for you. But shouldn't you have done that before "going pro?"
Well I've already found 2 games that work for me, where I know that I'm a big winner: 1/3 NL and 2/5 NL live. If my experiments go wrong and I don't make any progress online, I've always got those other games to fall back on.

I think it feels good psychologically to mix it up between the 2. When I either spend all day on my laptop or all day at the casino, it gets too draining. It's nice to be able to use one form of poker as a rest from another form of poker, and be a winning player at both formats.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me

Yeah true that it can be tough to make proper adjustments sometimes. Sometimes it just feels a bit sick to make a certain fold in a certain spot and it's hard to bring myself to do it. Like if I open AKs on BTN and a super passive player 3bets from the SB. It feels so sick to fold there.
Standard fold, snap muck and move on dude
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 11:21 PM
Also I love the vids skuz poker. Keep them coming!
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Well I've already found 2 games that work for me, where I know that I'm a big winner: 1/3 NL and 2/5 NL live. If my experiments go wrong and I don't make any progress online, I've always got those other games to fall back on.
Are you really a big winner though? Based on your results you seem to be a small winner over a relatively small sample size.

You all seem to be a handful of coolers/bad beats/spew away from being completely broke and unable to play any games.

Also have you considered joining Upswing? I think it would be really good investment for you and one of the very things you'll be able to get a handle on is what hands are opens/flats/3bets/4bets from which position vs which position.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogarse
Are you really a big winner though? Based on your results you seem to be a small winner over a relatively small sample size.

You all seem to be a handful of coolers/bad beats/spew away from being completely broke and unable to play any games.

Also have you considered joining Upswing? I think it would be really good investment for you and one of the very things you'll be able to get a handle on is what hands are opens/flats/3bets/4bets from which position vs which position.
I second upswing, from what ive seen in their free vids on yt they explain every preflop knowledge and concept in a very clear manner
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Dude look at the hand histories I've been posting:
- People call off 83bbs pre with 99
- People call 3bets with hands like 75s and QTo
- People make spazzy plays like the KQo hand before
- People stack off Q7s vs ATs for 100bbs pre at 200nl

It's honestly not as hard as you're making it out to be. Maybe you just had a bad experience with Stars and you're projecting that on to the softer sites.
You're very easily blinded by variance, aren't you? Those bad plays are very much the exception, not the rule. Online is very tough, far tougher than anything you will find at low stakes live.

Quote:
Well I've already found 2 games that work for me, where I know that I'm a big winner: 1/3 NL and 2/5 NL live. If my experiments go wrong and I don't make any progress online, I've always got those other games to fall back on.

I think it feels good psychologically to mix it up between the 2. When I either spend all day on my laptop or all day at the casino, it gets too draining. It's nice to be able to use one form of poker as a rest from another form of poker, and be a winning player at both formats.
Have you got any evidence you're a big winner?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-17-2018 , 11:49 PM
I'm curious on how keeping no records other then they physical evidence of a dwindling bankroll leads one to belive they are a winning player.

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Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
I made plays that maximised my win rate. Whilst they might be high variance, you're not going to achieve a $30/hr win rate at 1/3 when you play this scared money strategy where you flat raises with KQo because you're too much of a pussy to throw in a light 3bet once in a while.
I made plays that killed my small dwindling bankroll. Whilst they are definitely high variance, I will never achieve a $30/hr win rate at 1/3 when i play this stupid money strategy where I 3 bet with KQo because I have fancy play syndrome and burn money away that I dont have.

FYP
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
So your argument is that, just because you can't beat 50nl, that means I can't either?

I would argue that my style of play is more suited to online tbh. Often I find great spots to bluff and hero call, but I can't make those plays because they just don't work at 1/3 live.



Except people can make $300+/hr online, so the edges aren't that small. And you can level out variance a lot faster online too. There's no such thing as a 1 month downswing online, if you're a winning player.

Not currently using one, since I play on an anonymous site. I used to use HM2 on Stars though, so I'll probably get that again.
You seriously have no idea WTF you are talking about wrt online.

Only 0.001 or some ridiculously small number of regs online make $300+/hr. You arent even top 2%.

I had 9+ winning months straight from 25NL all the way to 200NL (25, 50, 100, 200), and then went on a 2 month downswing/BE of 13BI at 200NL. The edges are way smaller than you think, and the variance/downswings sucks ass online because believe it or not, if you even have an edge at all, it’s way smaller than live. And online downswings can go in the 20-40 BI mark pretty normally unless your winrate is ridiculously high. Mine was very high and I was still able to go on a 13BI+ DS, and i imagine since last year my winrate now definitely isnt as high as it was the 1-3 yrs earlier I played
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Well then imagine having an 80k downswing live. That's more than a year of full-time play.

My point is that the timeframe that a live downswing lasts is way longer than an online downswing.
No it doesnt. Live your winrate should be astronomically higher, so it’s really unlikely you go on huge downswings vs online. Pros have commonly gone on 30-40BI downswings online. If you ever go on a 15+ BI downswing live, that 99% of the time means you have very big leaks.

You have never played online 25NL+ for 50k hands, let alone half a million. Yet you talk nonsense out of your ass like you’re an expert
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 02:51 AM
re the 'big winner' stats for 2/3 and 2/5, how many hours have you played at each stake and what are your win rates?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6bet me
Well I've already found 2 games that work for me, where I know that I'm a big winner: 1/3 NL and 2/5 NL live.
LOL, either your entire thread is a lie or the above post is, pick one FFS.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 05:01 AM
Quote:
LOL, either your entire thread is a lie or the above post is, pick one FFS.
+1

Quote:
Yet you talk nonsense out of your ass like you’re an expert
+ 1000

Yet here's the thing. Unlike us normal poker posters, Op gets off on all criticism this because he has Attention Deficit Disorder, and all we are doing is feeding it. Op could not really give monkeys about his wr at the felt (which implies, he has from some source, a replenishable BR) all op really cares about is that this thread is a complete boss on 2+2.

I'm still gonna follow though...its part of my daily ritual now . But then I can afford the time...all you hardworking winner types, with jobs to do or volume to put in need to give up on this before you get more addicted.

I've seen some online pros suggest the "stayfocused" ext/app as a way out of keeping online/social media distractions at bay

Last edited by Fatboy54; 07-18-2018 at 05:16 AM.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 05:20 AM
Look I don't want to brag about win rates and hourlies because as I said before, it's just a really negative and results-oriented mindset to have. But I am confident that I'm crushing the 1/3 NL and 2/5 NL games at my casino long-term for a pretty high hourly.

I estimate that over the past 2 years, I'm about 10k up at 1/3 NL and another 10k up at 2/5 NL at the casino. But I don't have strict records to back that up because I used to play inconsistently and not really track my sessions.

Since the start of this year, I'm 11k up and most of that came from 2/5 NL, followed by 1/3 NL and 1/3 PLO. I can't tell you the exact amount I won at each stake though.

And since I quit my job 6 weeks ago, I'm 2.2k up at 2/5 NL and 1.6k up at 1/3 NL, and that's after my last two really unlucky sessions where I lost over 1k at each game to variance.

Even if we ignore results, I can just tell that I'm crushing the game purely by the way other people play vs the way I play. When there are 4 limpers and I'm the only one that comes in for an open raise, that alone says a lot about the softness of the games. At most of the tables I play on, I'm the only one that has any semblance of an idea of preflop strategy, and that usually carries on to postflop too when I just arrive at the flop with a massive range advantage to everyone else. And that ignores the fact that I outplay them postflop too; I get thin value when I'm ahead and I get away cheaply when I'm behind. Occasionally, there might be a bluff gone wrong or a bet that's too thin or me trying to bluff catch at the wrong moment, but most of the time, I make the right plays and I profit a lot as a result.
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 05:29 AM
How are you winning since you quit your job when your br has gone down by heaps?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 05:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
How are you winning since you quit your job when your br has gone down by heaps?
He's crushing poker theory. Earning money is being results oriented.

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Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 05:34 AM
Where OP lives

Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirage01
How are you winning since you quit your job when your br has gone down by heaps?
And how can you know you crushing yet everyone in this thread is constantly telling you otherwise?

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Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote
07-18-2018 , 05:37 AM
Yeah, I'm confused. You had $10k, you've won $2.2k and now your roll is $4.5k?

Does that mean you've spent nearly $8k on food in the last month?
Having a really bad downswing immediately after setting poker goals Quote

      
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