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06-05-2013 , 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktnxbye
People dat say 10 NL is difficult to beat make me lol so hard.
No those people have $ and play higher. 10$ means nothing to them and me so its hard to take the micros seriously.
06-05-2013 , 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sump
No those people have $ and play higher. 10$ means nothing to them and me so its hard to take the micros seriously.
Are you saying that someone with relatively little poker experience, but enough money that the micros don't mean anything to them, can play 50NL/100NL/200NL and start beating it reasonably quickly? Jumping in at that level, even if you're more than rolled for it, surely isn't a good idea?
06-05-2013 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MultiTabling
Are you saying that someone with relatively little poker experience, but enough money that the micros don't mean anything to them, can play 50NL/100NL/200NL and start beating it reasonably quickly? Jumping in at that level, even if you're more than rolled for it, surely isn't a good idea?
No I'm saying that if you have half a brain you should not bother trying to beat NL10 let alone the rake. The rake holds a lot of ppl back IMO.

There's a substantial difference between 50NL and 200NL. Someone starting at 50, if rolled, is not going to crash and burn if they are the least bit competent at poker.

Last edited by sump; 06-05-2013 at 11:27 AM.
06-05-2013 , 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sump
No I'm saying that if you have half a brain you should not bother trying to beat NL10 let alone the rake. The rake holds a lot of ppl back IMO.

There's a substantial difference between 50NL and 200NL. Someone starting at 50, if rolled, is not going to crash and burn if they are the least bit competent at poker.
this is horribly false, I've been grinding 50nl for awhile and the rake is not that much better by this level. I know quite a few new ish players easily rolled for it that have learned decent preflop play and would be considered "competent" that grind away 3k+ over 50-200k hands and cant make it back in rb.

if you can't beat 10nl after rake then starting any higher is going to be worse
06-05-2013 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Champman
this is horribly false, I've been grinding 50nl for awhile and the rake is not that much better by this level. I know quite a few new ish players easily rolled for it that have learned decent preflop play and would be considered "competent" that grind away 3k+ over 50-200k hands and cant make it back in rb.

if you can't beat 10nl after rake then starting any higher is going to be worse
Maybe this is why I don't play NL anymore and stick to PLO. As much as the rake is bad, the players are worse and essentially think everything is 50/50 or 60/40 so it's almost easier to play post flop. Playing too many hands OOP. It's like 2003 NL all over again.
06-05-2013 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by B Champman
this is horribly false, I've been grinding 50nl for awhile and the rake is not that much better by this level. I know quite a few new ish players easily rolled for it that have learned decent preflop play and would be considered "competent" that grind away 3k+ over 50-200k hands and cant make it back in rb.

if you can't beat 10nl after rake then starting any higher is going to be worse
Also - I don't think people are 'competent' of they can only play preflop. Those guys should probably play cap IMO.
06-05-2013 , 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sump
Also - I don't think people are 'competent' of they can only play preflop. Those guys should probably play cap IMO.
well by competent I mean you won't profit against them long term after rakeback. like -6bb/100 losers and better. not good.
06-05-2013 , 10:14 PM
Had sort of an ok day today. I finished in profit but running kinda bad.. I'm up $15.21 for the day but according to EV it should be $28.56... But anyway I'm used to running under EV. It's pretty standard for me lol

Also, got my exam results today in case anyone is interested...

Overall, it averages to 71.667% (Mostly because of the 30 credit module I got 92% in), so I'm pretty pleased

06-05-2013 , 10:25 PM
So I thought this hand from today was funny (vs a huge aggro fish 3betting and 4betting constantly):

    Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17813432

    Hero (BTN): $5.31 (106.2 bb)
    SB: $5.31 (106.2 bb)
    BB: $5.29 (105.8 bb)
    UTG+1: $6.75 (135 bb)
    UTG+2: $5 (100 bb)
    MP1: $3.54 (70.8 bb)
    MP2: $6.96 (139.2 bb)
    MP3: $5.52 (110.4 bb)
    CO: $2.80 (56 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with J J
    4 folds, MP3 raises to $0.15, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.52, SB folds, BB calls $0.47, MP3 raises to $1.33, Hero raises to $5.31, BB folds, MP3 calls $3.98

    Flop: ($11.16) K K 9 (2 players)
    Turn: ($11.16) 4 (2 players)
    River: ($11.16) 2 (2 players)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $11.16 pot ($0.46 rake)
    Final Board: K K 9 4 2
    Hero showed J J and won $10.70 ($5.39 net)
    MP3 showed 5 7 and lost (-$5.31 net)



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    And this hand was not so funny:

      Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17813452

      BTN: $5.46 (109.2 bb)
      SB: $2 (40 bb)
      BB: $6.76 (135.2 bb)
      UTG+1: $5.85 (117 bb)
      UTG+2: $4 (80 bb)
      MP1: $3.18 (63.6 bb)
      MP2: $12.34 (246.8 bb)
      MP3: $6.51 (130.2 bb)
      Hero (CO): $16.40 (328 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with Q Q
      5 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, BTN calls $0.15, 2 folds

      Flop: ($0.37) Q 2 J (2 players)
      Hero bets $0.30, BTN raises to $0.90, Hero raises to $2.20, BTN raises to $5.31 and is all-in, Hero calls $3.11

      Turn: ($10.99) 2 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: ($10.99) A (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Spoiler:
      Results: $10.99 pot ($0.46 rake)
      Final Board: Q 2 J 2 A
      BTN showed 2 2 and won $10.53 ($5.07 net)
      Hero showed Q Q and lost (-$5.46 net)



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      Oh and this one too

        Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17813462

        BTN: $8.83 (176.6 bb)
        SB: $9.56 (191.2 bb)
        BB: $9.93 (198.6 bb)
        UTG+1: $6.51 (130.2 bb)
        UTG+2: $9.84 (196.8 bb)
        MP1: $5.36 (107.2 bb)
        MP2: $5 (100 bb)
        MP3: $3.32 (66.4 bb)
        Hero (CO): $9.65 (193 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is CO with 5 5
        3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.15, MP3 calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.15, 2 folds, BB calls $0.10

        Flop: ($0.62) K 5 T (4 players)
        BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, BB raises to $2.20, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $2.10, Hero raises to $9.50 and is all-in, BB calls $7.30, MP3 calls $0.97

        Turn: ($22.79) 7 (3 players, 1 is all-in)
        River: ($22.79) 2 (3 players, 1 is all-in)

        Spoiler:
        Results: $22.79 pot ($0.95 rake)
        Final Board: K 5 T 7 2
        BB showed T T and won $12.13 ($2.48 net)
        MP2 mucked and lost (-$0.15 net)
        MP3 showed K K and won $9.71 ($6.39 net)
        Hero showed 5 5 and lost (-$9.65 net)



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        06-06-2013 , 03:17 AM
        3 way action with bottom set 200bb deep with no fd, think u could have maybe found a fold unless they are crazy ago fish =x
        06-06-2013 , 05:43 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by SarahDoll1987
        Had sort of an ok day today. I finished in profit but running kinda bad.. I'm up $15.21 for the day but according to EV it should be $28.56... But anyway I'm used to running under EV. It's pretty standard for me lol

        Also, got my exam results today in case anyone is interested...

        Overall, it averages to 71.667% (Mostly because of the 30 credit module I got 92% in), so I'm pretty pleased

        Wow, I hope I can do that well on my exams, congrats!

        It's such a shame that with such intelligence, all you seem to care about is having bigger boobs
        06-06-2013 , 05:55 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Alexnorge
        he he, eye on the price buddy, eye on the price. Whatever get's us to boobs right?
        eye on the PRIZE???
        06-06-2013 , 12:32 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by HeyitsClay
        3 way action with bottom set 200bb deep with no fd, think u could have maybe found a fold unless they are crazy ago fish =x
        Yeah I think you're right... I remember shoving the 55 and thinking "I bet he's got TT"... But I was kinda hoping he had like AK or a straight draw instead lol..


        Quote:
        Originally Posted by MultiTabling
        Wow, I hope I can do that well on my exams, congrats!

        It's such a shame that with such intelligence, all you seem to care about is having bigger boobs
        It's one of many things I care about lol
        06-06-2013 , 12:55 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by SarahDoll1987
        Yeah I think you're right... I remember shoving the 55 and thinking "I bet he's got TT"... But I was kinda hoping he had like AK or a straight draw instead lol..
        I think folding would be pretty bad, it's just overwhelmingly likely that someone does this with worse than KK/TT enough, remember there are only 6 combos of KK/TT. But because so many of the possible bluffs are backdoor FD/gutters/QJ, you should just flat once your small raise to .5 is 3-bet. Small distinction, and obviously it doesn't help when you get coolered, but you will run into the overset part of opponents ranges less and make them fold low equity hands less.
        06-06-2013 , 07:42 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by miserablee
        I think folding would be pretty bad, it's just overwhelmingly likely that someone does this with worse than KK/TT enough, remember there are only 6 combos of KK/TT. But because so many of the possible bluffs are backdoor FD/gutters/QJ, you should just flat once your small raise to .5 is 3-bet. Small distinction, and obviously it doesn't help when you get coolered, but you will run into the overset part of opponents ranges less and make them fold low equity hands less.
        Thanks for the advice! I definitely don't think I played that hand too great.. I think a call is definitely the best option if I want to keep him in the pot with weaker hands... I need to try and keep these things in mind when I'm in a pot rather than just trying to get in as much money as quickly as possible..



        Also, tomorrow my coach will be doing a database review with me.. Not for one of the DC video's but just to help me.. I think he's absolutely fantastic! Everything he's doing is so much more than I could expect! I'm so pleased I'm getting this opportunity!
        06-06-2013 , 08:06 PM
        A good thing to think about is how vulnerable your hand is when deciding whether to call or raise. Also you should be a little more likely to call generally speaking in position. A set on a pretty dry board isn't likely to be drawn out on, and we're in position, both of which point to a call. If the board were something like 865 with a flush draw or even T95 with a flush draw then i'd be much more likely to 3b rather than call, and i would pretty much always 3-bet with a set of 5s on those boards out of position.

        Hope that helps. Good luck.
        06-06-2013 , 08:25 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by miserablee
        I think folding would be pretty bad, it's just overwhelmingly likely that someone does this with worse than KK/TT enough, remember there are only 6 combos of KK/TT. But because so many of the possible bluffs are backdoor FD/gutters/QJ, you should just flat once your small raise to .5 is 3-bet. Small distinction, and obviously it doesn't help when you get coolered, but you will run into the overset part of opponents ranges less and make them fold low equity hands less.
        have u played NL5? i just played 25k hands (15bb/100) for a challenge people are never bluffing here.

        Some things to know about tendacys at this level:

        - First of all no ones bluffing or cares about back door draws

        - Almost everyone takes check call lines with draws no ones raising draws

        - Nearly never is someone raising TPTK (AK) unless there is a FD on board that they want to "protect" from, they dont "want to scare people out of the pot" now that they finally have a big hand

        - That leaves us with KT - AA - KK raising here , vs 2 players someone has a hand that has us beat, it is possible MP3 is calling with AK or KQ but its equally possible hes slow playing a set.

        - With that all said, HU i would sigh get it in, vs 2 players so many things have to go our way to win this hand im never stacking off 200bb deep.

        - You can even sigh fold to MP2s raise after MP3 flats after cbetting 10c into 62c pot (screaming fish trap line with a monster) if u call here no cards can give u a reason to fold on any street and its not like its gunna suddenly check down after all this action so ull end up stacking off if u decide to call anyway

        Edit: The numbers say its not horrid but we still are losing over 50% of the time. Defiantly not jamming flop though. Im still folding personally, not risking a 200bb stack in such a marginal spot, cant really fold turn if we call seem everything raised on the flop (2pair and sets) will continue betting at these stakes

        With 1 player (cbetter) calling with AQ
        Quote:
        Board: Kh 5c Ts
        Dead:

        equity win tie pots won pots tied
        Hand 0: 49.490% 49.49% 00.00% 321764 0.00 { 5h5s }
        Hand 1: 33.077% 32.74% 00.33% 212886 2169.00 { KK+, TT, KTs, KTo }
        Hand 2: 17.433% 17.10% 00.33% 111172 2169.00 { KK+, TT, AQs+, KTs, AQo+, KTo }

        Without 1 player (cbetter) calling with AQ
        Quote:
        Board: Kh 5c Ts
        Dead:

        equity win tie pots won pots tied
        Hand 0: 50.308% 50.31% 00.00% 196250 0.00 { 5h5s }
        Hand 1: 30.770% 30.29% 00.48% 118151 1881.00 { KK+, TT, KTs, KTo }
        Hand 2: 18.922% 18.44% 00.48% 71933 1881.00 { KK+, TT, AKs, KTs, AKo, KTo }

        Last edited by HeyitsClay; 06-06-2013 at 08:51 PM.
        06-06-2013 , 08:58 PM
        Another thing i just thought of if the raiser is only raising 2 pair and sets, if hes raising 2pair it makes the combos of set down to practically nothing. With that being said I think just a straight draw can find a fold here after only investing 2bb. With him calling that means he probably has a set making it combination more likely the raiser has a set and not 2 pair also, Thats something to think about

        I think i laid out all the information I could think of that is relevant, now you just gota decide whats best lol. seems its so close im opting to fold still seems it looks like a nearly break even spot, no need to lose 200bb and deal with the tilt for a nearly 0ev spot

        #interestinghand
        06-06-2013 , 09:37 PM
        It's hard to make big laydowns but sometimes you just have to fold. In this specific situation I would find a tough time to fold especially at these stakes where some monkeys can overvalue 2pr/tptk/draws or just spew.
        06-07-2013 , 11:32 AM
        Just had the database review session with Inavacuum and I found it really useful! We looked at 3bet pots where I'm the 3better and also where I've called a 3bet. Definitely gave me a lot to think about!

        Also, I think I've found where things are going so horribly lol... I'm a LOT under EV in 3bet pots (Over $300):

        06-07-2013 , 12:14 PM
        Don't look at ev. It will eat your soul.

        Also, I offer free coaching to any female looking to finance a boob job via poker. It been a longstanding policy of my for the last 5 minutes. PM me if you want a free session.
        06-07-2013 , 04:49 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by skraper
        Don't look at ev. It will eat your soul.

        Also, I offer free coaching to any female looking to finance a boob job via poker. It been a longstanding policy of my for the last 5 minutes. PM me if you want a free session.
        Just thought I'd say thanks in here too even though I contacted you so people don't think I just ignore your post lol



        Also, stopping for the day now. I've not been feeling too well today, so not done as much volume as I wanted. I've done around 2.2k hands with just under $7 profit though so it's ok

        Tomorrow if I'm feeling better, I'd like to try get around 9k hands done. My aim is to try get 20k hands done over the weekend (Including today)

        Last edited by SarahDoll1987; 06-07-2013 at 04:56 PM.
        06-07-2013 , 05:47 PM
        How many tables have you been playing ? More than 8?
        06-07-2013 , 06:34 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by sump
        How many tables have you been playing ? More than 8?
        I've just been doing 4 tables but playing Zoom... So I can do around 900 hands per hour with those 4 tables
        06-07-2013 , 10:02 PM
        So I can't seem to sleep and feeling a bit better so decided to play some more... Just wondering if people could give me some opinions on calling this preflop 4bet? I was fairly certain I was behind, but as there were 3 others in the pot, I was getting 4.3 to 1 for making the call. I figured the guy who 4bet is likely to have a big hand, so if I hit my set, it's likely I get paid off, as well as there being 2 others in the pot who could potentially pay me off too.

        I didn't really like flatting that min 3bet because I expected that some of the time the original raiser will 4bet, but so often at these stakes, players will just end up flatting in that spot.

        It'd be great to get some opinions please I know I won the pot, but I don't want to be results oriented, as if it's a bad play to make that call I'd like to know so I can avoid it in future

        Thanks

          Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17820652

          BTN: $6.11 (122.2 bb)
          SB: $5 (100 bb)
          Hero (BB): $5.65 (113 bb)
          UTG+1: $6.91 (138.2 bb)
          UTG+2: $5.71 (114.2 bb)
          MP1: $6.76 (135.2 bb)
          MP2: $3.16 (63.2 bb)
          MP3: $8.88 (177.6 bb)
          CO: $7.11 (142.2 bb)

          Preflop: Hero is BB with 9 9
          2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.15, 2 folds, CO raises to $0.25, BTN folds, SB calls $0.23, Hero calls $0.20, MP1 raises to $1, CO calls $0.75, SB calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.75

          Flop: ($4) 8 9 7 (4 players)
          SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO checks

          Turn: ($4) 7 (4 players)
          SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets $3, CO folds, SB raises to $4 and is all-in, Hero raises to $4.65 and is all-in, MP1 calls $1.65

          River: ($17.30) 4 (3 players, 2 are all-in)

          Spoiler:
          Results: $17.30 pot ($0.72 rake)
          Final Board: 8 9 7 7 4
          SB showed T T and lost (-$5 net)
          Hero showed 9 9 and won $16.58 ($10.93 net)
          MP1 showed K K and lost (-$5.65 net)
          CO mucked and lost (-$1 net)



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          Also, considering in the 626 hands I've played so far i've had KK vs AA all in preflop twice, and also KK vs JJ all in preflop (and my KK cracked) I'm surprised I'm actually in a profit!

                
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