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Goal: Poker boob job Goal: Poker boob job

05-11-2013 , 02:07 AM
Readless getting Ak in there is optimistic at best, even getting value from a 3 bet is going to be hard.

I flat a large part of my range there agaisnt a 4x, may 3 bet hands like QQ+ and throw in some 89s type hands. Once you have a read on these people its easier to know who you can 3 bet in this spot and who you cant.
05-11-2013 , 02:16 AM
Ok then thank you
05-11-2013 , 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShellysAshes
I don't recommend boob jobs. My mum got a boob job and now we don't have sky.
Lol unlucky
05-11-2013 , 05:52 AM
all you need is a tit and a chair
05-11-2013 , 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahDoll1987
    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17377381

    SB: $54.89 (219.6 bb)
    BB: $25 (100 bb)
    UTG+2: $25.49 (102 bb)
    Hero (MP1): $59.19 (236.8 bb)
    MP2: $19.55 (78.2 bb)
    MP3: $25 (100 bb)
    CO: $26.39 (105.6 bb)
    BTN: $36.08 (144.3 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K K
    UTG+2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 3 folds, BTN calls $0.75, 2 folds

    Flop: ($1.85) 6 4 2 (2 players)
    Hero bets $1.25, BTN raises to $4.70, Hero raises to $10.50, BTN raises to $35.33 and is all-in, Hero calls $24.83

    Turn: ($72.51) 6 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: ($72.51) Q (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $72.51 pot ($1.50 rake)
    Final Board: 6 4 2 6 Q
    Hero showed K K and lost (-$36.08 net)
    BTN showed 2 2 and won $71.01 ($34.93 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
    Yeah, what did you put villain on? Seems a bit spewy to go from $0.75 preflop raise to a $34 flop stack off. Basically, it means that it is very profitabe to set mine against you. Try to think of your game in terms of profitability and ensuring that the lines your villains take against you aren't going to be profitable long term.

    I think one take away from this hand and question you should ask yourself are:

    "Under what conditions (villain tendencies, board textures, etc) am I willing to stack off for 100bb on the flop?"

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SarahDoll1987
      Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17377391

      BB: $25 (100 bb)
      UTG+2: $32.94 (131.8 bb)
      MP1: $25 (100 bb)
      Hero (MP2): $25.35 (101.4 bb)
      MP3: $12.29 (49.2 bb)
      CO: $16.88 (67.5 bb)
      BTN: $41.34 (165.4 bb)
      SB: $23.68 (94.7 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K A
      UTG+2 raises to $1, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $3, 5 folds, UTG+2 raises to $8, Hero raises to $15, UTG+2 raises to $32.94 and is all-in, Hero calls $10.35 and is all-in

      Flop: ($51.05) K 8 Q (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      Turn: ($51.05) Q (2 players, 2 are all-in)
      River: ($51.05) J (2 players, 2 are all-in)

      Spoiler:
      Results: $51.05 pot ($2 rake)
      Final Board: K 8 Q Q J
      UTG+2 showed A A and won $49.05 ($23.70 net)
      Hero showed K A and lost (-$25.35 net)



      Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
      Again, here we are stacking off for 100bb. If there was a ton of dead money in the pot, I'd like this a lot more or if villain had a high raise and 3-bet % I'd be fine with it. Otherwise, it's meh at best and -EV overall.

      The question is, what are our villains going to stack off with for 100bb preflop? If our villains are going to stack off with AJ/AQ then absolutely we should be itching to get it in against them with AK. But that isn't the case. most villains are only stacking off for 100bb preflop with JJ+/AK.

      Quote:
      Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

      320,760 games 0.016 secs 20,047,500 games/sec

      Board: 9c 5d 3d
      Dead:

      equity win tie pots won pots tied
      Hand 0: 30.270% 14.42% 15.85% 46251 50844.00 { AKo }
      Hand 1: 69.730% 53.88% 15.85% 172821 50844.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
      So its not profitable to stack off for 100bb with AK vs this range
      You need a lot more dead money in the pot for this to be profitable longterm.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by SarahDoll1987
        Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 7 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17377401

        SB: $29.60 (118.4 bb)
        BB: $25 (100 bb)
        MP1: $20.46 (81.8 bb)
        Hero (MP2): $38.31 (153.2 bb)
        MP3: $9.90 (39.6 bb)
        CO: $8.79 (35.2 bb)
        BTN: $18.35 (73.4 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A Q
        MP1 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 4 folds, BB calls $0.50

        Flop: ($1.60) K 5 7 (2 players)
        BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB raises to $3.50, Hero calls $2.50

        Turn: ($8.60) J (2 players)
        BB bets $5.50, Hero calls $5.50

        River: ($19.60) K (2 players)
        BB bets $12.25, Hero calls $12.25

        Spoiler:
        Results: $44.10 pot ($1.98 rake)
        Final Board: K 5 7 J K
        BB showed 7 7 and won $42.12 ($20.12 net)
        Hero mucked A Q and lost (-$22 net)



        Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
        This hand seems fine, sucks river paired.

        How often do you raise with the nuts on turn?

        How often are you raise/folding this river? Kx should be the majority of villain's range in this spot. Kx and flushes will call a raise and only fullhouses are shoving over the top of your river raise so you can raise/fold with confidence.

        I'm always thinking about extracting more value out of my hands. In the case of having the nuts and raising on turn.... If V also has a flush, set, or two pair and the river is a diamond it kills our action ? Or if V has two pair and gets counterfeited on river we lose value Not to mention that if we raise turn V's can always level themselves into thinking we are making a move or that we have AQ or AJtype hand and are drawing. Or V could have a flush and shove over the top of us

        but overall, I think the last hand was played okay.

        Last edited by dgiharris; 05-11-2013 at 09:33 AM.
        05-11-2013 , 10:04 AM
        If you are completely readless in these spots you can at least assume that since the villains are full stacked they are regs. And when in that AK hand a reg 4x opens from early position it's a good assumption to make that his range is pretty tight like around 10-15%. If he opens only around 10% he can comfortably fold a ton of hands to your 3b and continue with a range that you are not really ahead at all.

        In that KK hand readless you could also check the flop since it's a bad board to cbet with air and protect your checking range. It's not like you are missing a ton of value by checking since lots of guys are just set hunting you here and by checking you allow them to bet their air. Also getting raised on the flop with little info on the villain sucks.

        Like I don't really play these limits so I can't say how they play nor do I play fr and if you think regs at this level are super stationy with medium overpairs on this board vs triple then go ahead and cbet.
        05-11-2013 , 10:10 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by dgiharris
        Yeah, what did you put villain on? Seems a bit spewy to go from $0.75 preflop raise to a $34 flop stack off. Basically, it means that it is very profitabe to set mine against you. Try to think of your game in terms of profitability and ensuring that the lines your villains take against you aren't going to be profitable long term.

        I think one take away from this hand and question you should ask yourself are:

        "Under what conditions (villain tendencies, board textures, etc) am I willing to stack off for 100bb on the flop?"
        I guess sometimes I just think that the villian is trying to make a play at me to make me fold my hand because on a board like that it doesn't look like I hit anything... But I guess I just need to trust that if someone is raising me on a board like that then it's likely I'm beat..


        Quote:
        Originally Posted by dgiharris
        Again, here we are stacking off for 100bb. If there was a ton of dead money in the pot, I'd like this a lot more or if villain had a high raise and 3-bet % I'd be fine with it. Otherwise, it's meh at best and -EV overall.

        The question is, what are our villains going to stack off with for 100bb preflop? If our villains are going to stack off with AJ/AQ then absolutely we should be itching to get it in against them with AK. But that isn't the case. most villains are only stacking off for 100bb preflop with JJ+/AK.



        So its not profitable to stack off for 100bb with AK vs this range
        You need a lot more dead money in the pot for this to be profitable longterm.
        I think I read ages ago somewhere that in the micro's you should always get it in with AK because of how likely it is people are spewing or you're up against a pair that you're flipping with... But maybe it's bad/outdated advice, or more suitable to like NL2.


        Quote:
        Originally Posted by dgiharris
        This hand seems fine, sucks river paired.

        How often do you raise with the nuts on turn?

        How often are you raise/folding this river? Kx should be the majority of villain's range in this spot. Kx and flushes will call a raise and only fullhouses are shoving over the top of your river raise so you can raise/fold with confidence.

        I'm always thinking about extracting more value out of my hands. In the case of having the nuts and raising on turn.... If V also has a flush, set, or two pair and the river is a diamond it kills our action ? Or if V has two pair and gets counterfeited on river we lose value Not to mention that if we raise turn V's can always level themselves into thinking we are making a move or that we have AQ or AJtype hand and are drawing. Or V could have a flush and shove over the top of us

        but overall, I think the last hand was played okay.
        Umm in that case, on the turn I rather just let him bet to not scare him off his hand if he's got a big hand, or to let him keep betting if he's doing it with complete air..


        Thanks for your in detail analysis of the hands! It's really helpful
        05-11-2013 , 01:04 PM
        Edit: the poker stove example isn't accurate, I accidentally had a flop assigned to it (from another post I was critiquing )

        Quote:
        Umm in that case, on the turn I rather just let him bet to not scare him off his hand if he's got a big hand, or to let him keep betting if he's doing it with complete air..
        Again, maybe this isn't the hand to raise on turn... I'm just asking you WHEN do you raise w the nuts or near nuts.? Notice that in your preflop stack off w AK for over 100bb you assume V is bad enough to stack off light but when you have the nuts you are worried that V is so good he will fold his made hand...

        You can't have it both ways. See what I'm saying.? If V is willing to bet into a flush board what range do you give him? And with that range how often is he folding if you raise.? That is the mindset you should have for every hand and situation. And let's say you raise turn and V folds. How then should you play this spot if you had a hand like QdQs? The more questions like this you ask yourself the better more profitable lines you will take.

        GL
        05-11-2013 , 04:57 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by lagmonkey515
        If you are completely readless in these spots you can at least assume that since the villains are full stacked they are regs. And when in that AK hand a reg 4x opens from early position it's a good assumption to make that his range is pretty tight like around 10-15%. If he opens only around 10% he can comfortably fold a ton of hands to your 3b and continue with a range that you are not really ahead at all.

        In that KK hand readless you could also check the flop since it's a bad board to cbet with air and protect your checking range. It's not like you are missing a ton of value by checking since lots of guys are just set hunting you here and by checking you allow them to bet their air. Also getting raised on the flop with little info on the villain sucks.

        Like I don't really play these limits so I can't say how they play nor do I play fr and if you think regs at this level are super stationy with medium overpairs on this board vs triple then go ahead and cbet.
        Sorry lagmonkey.. I think I overlooked your message earlier because I think I was typing up the response to dgiharris at the time.

        I think I understand now about the AK.. It's definitely not something I should be stacking off with when it's vs an UTG raiser.. Would you think it'd be ok to stack off with a late position raiser if he has a fairly high steal % or would you recommend it'd be best to flat or 3bet then fold to a 4bet?

        With the KK hand would you recommend that I check back the flop then call down the turn and river or call the turn then re-evaluate on the river? Sometimes if I've checked back a hand like that I figure that I've under-represented my hand and would probably call the river too..

        Thanks for the advice!!





        Quote:
        Originally Posted by dgiharris
        Edit: the poker stove example isn't accurate, I accidentally had a flop assigned to it (from another post I was critiquing )



        Again, maybe this isn't the hand to raise on turn... I'm just asking you WHEN do you raise w the nuts or near nuts.? Notice that in your preflop stack off w AK for over 100bb you assume V is bad enough to stack off light but when you have the nuts you are worried that V is so good he will fold his made hand...

        You can't have it both ways. See what I'm saying.? If V is willing to bet into a flush board what range do you give him? And with that range how often is he folding if you raise.? That is the mindset you should have for every hand and situation. And let's say you raise turn and V folds. How then should you play this spot if you had a hand like QdQs? The more questions like this you ask yourself the better more profitable lines you will take.

        GL
        If someone is betting into me when I have the nuts, or near nuts, I tend to just let them keep betting unless i'm really scared a card would come that'd ruin it for me.. For example, if there's a lot of cards that could make a 4 to a straight and things... To be honest I wasn't really sure what he had but from his bet I expected him to be strong (2 pair, a set, etc) then when the board paired on the river I kind of expected a full house but felt like I had to call.
        05-11-2013 , 05:55 PM
        dgiharris, you cant r/f the river in the AQdd hand, note the stacks.
        05-11-2013 , 07:36 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by SarahDoll1987
        ...If someone is betting into me when I have the nuts, or near nuts, I tend to just let them keep betting unless i'm really scared a card would come that'd ruin it for me.. For example, if there's a lot of cards that could make a 4 to a straight and things... To be honest I wasn't really sure what he had but from his bet I expected him to be strong (2 pair, a set, etc) then when the board paired on the river I kind of expected a full house but felt like I had to call.
        I think the above is pretty solid. However, what you should experiment a little bit with is raising turn when you are nutted AND you are fairly confident your villain is strong.

        I mean, is villain ever folding a set, baby flush, or two pair to you if you raise turn? Since the answer will usually be no, we can often get much greater value from villain by inflating the pot on turn. Or even better, sometimes we will be in a position in which villain will definitely stack off with an inferior hand (like baby flush, second straight, bottom two pair, etc...)

        To be honest, in your last hand I probably play it just as you did. We can get great value out of everything V has that bets turn and if he has a baby flush odds are he leads river as well and we can shove and he makes a crying call (if board doesn't pair of course).

        I was just interjecting some "food for thought" conversation.

        Enough about that hand, good luck with your challenge

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by CCuster_911
        dgiharris, you cant r/f the river in the AQdd hand, note the stacks.
        Yeah, good point, missed that

        OP's line on the last hand is probably close to optimal. Didn't mean to nit pick, just hoping to expand OP's views on lines she may be autopiloting

        Last edited by dgiharris; 05-11-2013 at 07:49 PM.
        05-11-2013 , 08:11 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by SarahDoll1987
        lol i'm a bit embarrassed to say... it was 12 tables for just under 21 hours (I have no life)
        How do you play 12 tables with a 10BI bankroll?
        05-11-2013 , 08:56 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Lambert180
        How do you play 12 tables with a 10BI bankroll?
        Because if you saw my graph you'd see I'd grinded it up a little by that point :P

        Edit: Just checked hold'em manager. I was up 5 buyins before the 14,500 hand session

        [img]http://s22.************/padlpvk41/sessions.png[/img]




        Also, going to be playing in the $8.80 Women's Nightly tournament again tonight... Hopefully I'll get a nice cash in it again today

        Last edited by SarahDoll1987; 05-11-2013 at 09:02 PM.
        05-11-2013 , 09:05 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by dgiharris
        OP's line on the last hand is probably close to optimal. Didn't mean to nit pick, just hoping to expand OP's views on lines she may be autopiloting
        Thanks for the feedback I do really appreciate everyone in here giving me feedback on my hands! I'll definitely try mixing it up a little more on the turn because I can see how a lot of cards can kill my action on the river.
        05-11-2013 , 11:22 PM
        lol playing some cash and just got it in on the turn against a fish with an overpair vs TP weak kicker... and of course trips on the river... $70 under EV for this session now and down $30... just my luck recently lol
        05-12-2013 , 12:38 AM
        Just lost a 220bb pot with KK vs QQ all in preflop with the same fish from earlier... Feeling so sick now... $140 under EV for this session now
        05-12-2013 , 12:52 AM
        Stop looking at EV

        Just delete it from your HEM

        Last edited by MMD; 05-12-2013 at 12:53 AM. Reason: fml I finally commented on this thread whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy??????
        05-12-2013 , 12:54 AM
        I think I should stop soon... Another suckout... Down $85 now and $170 under EV

        Edit:

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by MMD
        Stop looking at EV

        Just delete it from your HEM
        Yeah, that'd probably be best...
        05-12-2013 , 12:57 AM
        I guess I should expand now that this thread isn't in BBV. It got moved right? Or am I imagining things?

        For a beginner EV is a horrible stat to be concentrating on.

        You can look at EV in two ways:

        YAY I'm running above EV but this must been that I'm just getting lucky and my game must be full of leaks

        or

        DAMN I'm running below EV. I'm playing perfectly and have no leaks and I'm just a really unlucky player the unluckiest poker player around.

        Neither of these thought processes are good.

        Concentrate on your green line. EV will work itself out over the long run.
        05-12-2013 , 01:09 AM
        nevermind

        Last edited by SarahDoll1987; 05-12-2013 at 01:26 AM.
        05-12-2013 , 01:32 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by MMD
        I guess I should expand now that this thread isn't in BBV. It got moved right? Or am I imagining things?

        For a beginner EV is a horrible stat to be concentrating on.

        You can look at EV in two ways:

        YAY I'm running above EV but this must been that I'm just getting lucky and my game must be full of leaks

        or

        DAMN I'm running below EV. I'm playing perfectly and have no leaks and I'm just a really unlucky player the unluckiest poker player around.

        Neither of these thought processes are good.

        Concentrate on your green line. EV will work itself out over the long run.
        What is this post even about? I dont know one person ever who viewed the EV line in this way. if anything EV line is the only line you should be worried about.
        05-12-2013 , 02:01 AM
        Even though I'm running so bad today, I still feel like I'm playing ok... There's only 1 hand where I feel like I played it badly.. The button was opening about 80% of buttons and had a very low fold to 3bet and 4betting frequently... It was probably a mistake to go with it though, and I should have instead folded to the 5bet shove..

          Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17390041

          CO: $32.32 (129.3 bb)
          BTN: $81.90 (327.6 bb)
          SB: $25 (100 bb)
          Hero (BB): $25.52 (102.1 bb)
          UTG+2: $11.76 (47 bb)
          MP1: $12.77 (51.1 bb)
          MP2: $25 (100 bb)
          MP3: $9.65 (38.6 bb)

          Preflop: Hero is BB with J J
          5 folds, BTN raises to $0.75, SB folds, Hero raises to $2.25, BTN raises to $5, Hero raises to $12.75, BTN raises to $41.50, Hero calls $12.77 and is all-in

          Flop: ($51.14) T 3 K (2 players, 1 is all-in)
          Turn: ($51.14) 2 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
          River: ($51.14) 9 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

          Spoiler:
          Results: $51.14 pot ($2 rake)
          Final Board: T 3 K 2 9
          BTN showed A A and won $49.14 ($23.62 net)
          Hero showed J J and lost (-$25.52 net)



          Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
          05-12-2013 , 04:01 AM
          You should 5bet shove or fold, and you can't fold to the shove after putting in half your stack and needing 25% equity. His low 4bet frequency might be because he's opening so much so you could probably still shove JJ there against him.
          05-12-2013 , 04:22 AM
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by SarahDoll1987
          Even though I'm running so bad today, I still feel like I'm playing ok... There's only 1 hand where I feel like I played it badly.. The button was opening about 80% of buttons and had a very low fold to 3bet and 4betting frequently... It was probably a mistake to go with it though, and I should have instead folded to the 5bet shove..
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by pitapita
          You should 5bet shove or fold, and you can't fold to the shove after putting in half your stack and needing 25% equity. His low 4bet frequency might be because he's opening so much so you could probably still shove JJ there against him.
          +1.
          05-12-2013 , 04:56 AM
          Starting to think maybe poker isn't for me.. Down $152 this session and $170 under EV

          I wish I knew if I was just on a horrible downswing or if I'm just a fish

          Bankroll is at $337 now. Looks like it's NL10 or cashout..

          Edit: I think I just need to stop stressing... I'll just move down to NL10 and grind my way back up, so I can lose it all again..

          Last edited by SarahDoll1987; 05-12-2013 at 05:20 AM.

                
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